sicsfingeredmong

I seriously have my doubts.

For an N'Zogbia, or a Martins there's two alternatives these days, and this has been the case since Speed left the club.

1. Enveloping oneself into the fold of the upstart Bling Brigade led by Dyer.

or

2. Having to be accepted by the club's 'old guard' or the final remnants of the Keegan Era, that being Shearer/Mcdermott for example.

We lost an outstanding 'go-between' in Gary Speed who imo was a listening/understanding ear for those foreigners who were serious about their football, and you could extend that Robert and Bellamy with respect to Speed's off-field influence - players who according to some stories didn't see eye-to-eye with/rubbed the captain - ie. a pivotal 'old guard' figure within the club - up the wrong way with their abrasive personalities or 'big egos'.

Another thing which has gone against us, and i'll take my argument to a slightly different transient here, deals with the club's recruiting. IMO the key to having these kids settle-in comes form recruiting these young lads in clusters based on their racial heritage - whether it be the French African Quarter, Brazilian, or Dutch Surinese for example. Not only does this come from extensive scouting which according to Roeder is non-existent at this club, but it also comes from establishing ties with 'feeder clubs' on the continent. In this way these young lads quickly build up a support network within the playing group itself, based on racial lines and ties they've built up within their previous & current youth ranks whether it be at National U'21 and club levels. Arsenal are a prime example with respect to this type of recruiting, and Chelsea have followed suit recently.

There's a definite trend when it comes to these type of players wanting to jump ship so to speak, when they do lose direction here for off-field and on-field reasons, or when it begins to go pear shaped. Foreign youngsters at Arsenal are prepared to stay for the long haul, Alidiere fits into this category. N'Zogbia is the current example.

Although from a different age bracket Domi, who was a very handy attacking fulback imo, due to his religious beliefs had a bar of the 'bling/pisshead' culture at the club. He just didn't fit in fullstop.

N'Zogbia's days are numbered, and even though i rate him highly as a player i have a feeling that Martins' days are also numbered. A strong support network isn't there, and the club unlike those listed above hasn't put in the hard yards in this area imo. Perhaps the club's line has been something along the lines of "they're adults, they can deal with it", and this equates from attitudes of previous managers & their respective footballing front offices.

Somethings amiss here, perhaps i've touched upon some reasons why................ but then again based on one drunkard reporter's fear of all things foreign such youngsters' are most likely not worth the effort....... it's preferable to give a nice lad from Whitley Bay first crack at a footballing future on Tyneside.

Finding a way to keep this lad at the club this summer should be one of the first orders of business for our new manager, be it Big Sam or otherwise.

 

It's the one real aspect of Roeder's reign that I'll look back on with true disdain, how he's let Zoggy go from our brightest young talent at the club this time last year to a guy who can't get a game for love nor money as the season ends, to the point that he's just an afterthought in most fans minds, one who will be likely sold for a relative pittance in the summer.

 

You can argue about his alledged attitude problem all you want, but the treatement he has recieved has been appaling. Our best player last season, he gets replaced by a largely past it signing who has played absolutely useless all season only to be given chance after chance in the team while Roeder peddles us some crap about how important it is to look after our young players and not overplay them, while at the same time playing Milner week in week out. 

 

His situation is very similiar to that of Milner last season, who was widely expected to leave and most fans weren't arsed. Only a combination of Doug Ellis and Boro between them managed to contrive to keep him at the club, where he's blossomed this season and is now one of our key players.

 

We won't get so lucky this summer, teams will want N'Zogbia. Our new manager needs to come in and tell him he's going nowhere.

 

Good post, If SA can work his magic on Duff and get him playing well again and if Zoggy finds his form of last season i think our left side will be pretty good.

 

Roeder always said "Zoggy is the future" but he never played him, Even when Duff was injured Roeder would play Milner there or even Emre who is f****** s*** on the LW.

He also said "he's one player i look forward to working with everyday" didn't he? His selection policy where N'Zogbia is concerned didn't reflect upon his supposed admiration of the player's talent/ability.

N'Zogbia, through the above mentioned selection policy - mentioned in an earlier post, not only didn't look match sharp during his fleeting appearances this season but the exuburance/confidence, almost bordering on arrogance at some stages late last season, previously on display just wasn't there this season. This will naturally happen to a youngster, especially to a youngster on foreign soil without a strong support network on their side, when the gaffer in charge no longer believes in him.

Two productive wingers - one who still produced end product despite being isolated/alienated & nailed-on for departure by Oliver's at-the-time mate, the other who came on after the depature of the former man in charge - who both shunned the Chronicle's resident s**** stirrer/drunkard.

Robert has already received the proverbial two fingered salute in the editorial form on his departure, an editorial piece which for the best part of two years probably gathered dust under this so-called reporter's bed.

N'Zogbia will be on the end of similar treatment.

I think, when we bought Carr he was a decent fullback. When we bought Boumsong he was a good central defender. When we bought Luque he would have walked in almost every La Liga team.

Ask Spurs fans - they'll tell you he was a mere shadow of his former self post knee injury.

Almost hindsight driven this but two forwards/strikers of comparible ability at the combined price - ie. 15m - who could have been offloaded and recycled when their respective days of productivity had clearly passed them by, instead of drafting in an 'object of worship', whose romantic move back to the North East due to his obvious ties with the area which resulted in him being fawned over by supporters immediately and the board alike, held during his mid-late career here and still does hold too much influence at the club.

I'm against 'abusing booing' of players during the ninety minutes of match-time because it's detrimental to the performance of the team ie. we're creating a matchday environment which is akin to an away fixture, the home ground advantage is hereby sacrificed. But if any player produces a sub-par performance - especially a performance which isn't befitting of the captain's armband - then i believe they're fair game so to speak, or deserving of a good kick up the arse, whether it be at the half-time break and/or after the final whistle.

 

I am against the abusive booing of a player, or any person who harbours no malicious intent, be it within or outside matchday. When you say sub-par performance, what are you comparing it against? If you think Parker is a very average player, an opinion you are perferctly entitled to though I disagree, how could he have put up sub par performance when he is playing averagely?

I simply compare his/Parker's performances against that of Gary Speed. Speed, similar to Parker, was the team's deepsitting 'ballwinner' and the player who essentially was the catalyst behind what was formerly one of the best counterattacking units going around.

For the sake of it i'll also mention that he was imo the outfield's leader, or the team's unofficial 'captain so. Shearer may have been the club's talisman, or for many supporters & high ranking club officials an object of worship/or a figure to fawn over, but it was Speed who was imo the mifield's organiser and a listening ear for the younger squad members - especially Bellamy at the time.

Speed set a high standard in both departments ie. leadership and his positional role within the team's outfield unit. Parker, as the team captain and having adopted a role which is similar to that of Speed's positional role, is a definite downgrade to what was formerly a team strength.

Parker's performances fall well short of the aforementioned standard set by Speed, and it's fair to brand his performances as being 'sub-par'.

Because people have jumped off the 'he's a world-class defensive midfielder' bandwagon are finally starting to recognise there's more to the position than just 'running around alot & trying to smash everything that moves', they're seeing the true colours.... a very average footballer.

 

And this warrants Parker those abusive boohs? If we should boo a very average football player why don't we boo Edgar, Huntington, Gooch, Harper, Babayaro, Taylor, Bramble, Moore, Carr, Milner, Butt, Duff and Sibierski?

 

I'm against 'abusing booing' of players during the ninety minutes of match-time because it's detrimental to the performance of the team ie. we're creating a matchday environment which is akin to an away fixture, the home ground advantage is hereby sacrificed. But if any player produces a sub-par performance - especially a performance which isn't befitting of the captain's armband - then i believe they're fair game so to speak, or deserving of a good kick up the arse, whether it be at the half-time break and/or after the final whistle.

why were people booing parker? people were saying he told fans to f**k off anyone know?

Because people have jumped off the 'he's a world-class defensive midfielder' bandwagon are finally starting to recognise there's more to the position than just 'running around alot & trying to smash everything that moves', they're seeing the true colours.... a very average footballer.

Relegation combined with our self-admitive lack of scouting - ie. virtually no network to speak of - and a distinct lack of youngsters who haven't been able to make a successful transition from the Reserves to the first team, or those who haven't been up to raise their level to the standard necessary to become solid EPL standard footballers, will be disastrous.

Without the spine needed - ie. the ability to unearth gems locally & abroad on a consistent basis re:Arsenal, and the coaching staff who are capable of fashioning their raw ability - to rebuild a 1st team after the big-money earners are offloaded will imo result in us struggling to get back up for a period of years.

There are wasters, yes. The younger Halls are the obvous example - they've ridden the coat tail of their father, but they lack the track record - ie. running companies - which is deserving of a spot on the board.

Years in the doldrums..... too high a price to pay just to get rid of the freeloaders.

Shearer doesn't qualify under a banner which has been bestowed on both Ferguson and Robson, that being 'one's lifetime service to the game'.

Of course there'll be plenty of hero worshipper types - ie. the one who cry out stuff along the lines of "he's our talisman" or "he's the only player i've looked on as being a hero" - who will no doubt disagree.

last season, if i am correct, it was shearer who was appointed as no.2 to roeder and the run of results was nothing short of champions league form following this.

 

Nah, man. It's because Parker wasn't playing.

 

Jokes aside.......... that's correct. Our midfield, despite it being supposedly tainted by the rascist b******'s presence, was far more functional without him in the line-up during the aforentioned period. The same occured this season as well.

IMO we would've been a relegation candidate at this stage of the season, if Parker had stayed injury free over the whole course of the current campaign. The non-existence of a 'transition passing game', because Parker as a ballwinning midfielder & often as the first receiving option for the back four, when he is the cornerstone of the engine room - ie. ball winner & the main passing conduit between the defense and the attack - has had a negative flow-on effect on the productivity levels of the widemen and most notably Martins further up the paddock.

The first manager, whether it be Roeder or Shearer, who removes the defective part of the team's engineroom will imo take the first step as far as taking the team forward. That being forward progress in the wake of the Scottish b******'s reign ie. EUFA Cup contention/qualification.

One year rolling contract = limited pay-off (based on his revised earnings as manager, as opposed to his role at the Academy) when Shearer decides it's time to step up to the plate.

aye, but when last season parker was our best player, everyone was happy and singed his name ... even at the begining current season, when he scored few people was satisfied. now, when whole team play s***, with exceptions - the one to blame, after fred and glenn is parker-"because is not good enough to be a captain" ... then who should be captain? emre? the "so called" racist? butt?-tbh similar player to parker? blame manager, blame board, blame whole team when plays badly, but not individuals if they don't deserve for it

Contrary to what you've obviously chosen to believe i posted something, and admittedly it was a much longer post/threadstarter, early last season. Here's something along a similar line re- the first paragraph.

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=36926.msg736956#msg736956

Some decent points raised.

That's two young centrehalves - ie. Bramble formerly, and now Taylor - who could be classified as being 'raw prospects' blessed with the physical attributes needed in order to excel at the position. But both, and obviously Bramble is a lost cause now, haven't to this date developed the mental side needed ie. concentrating for 90 minutes, postional discipline/reading the game. Taylor is worringly travelling down the same route, and next season is a crucial one imo because he missed one year thanks to Shithead's handling of him and development-wise he's playing catch-up as a result.

But it could also be a combination of "dumb footballer" and "poor defensive coaching" which isn't helping.

A consistent transition passing game will obviously help - one that will ultimately arrive in the event of Parker buggering off, because all too often he is 1st receiver & user of the ball in our own half - where the ball is delivered from of the centre out to the flanks quickly when the wingers are running off-the-ball at pace against a backtracking defending opposition outfield.

It's interesting that our transition/counterattacking game, in addition our 'wing play' and both aspects go hand-in-hand, improved a great deal during two periods within Roeder's tenureship ie. when Parker was out injured late last season & during the mid-point of the current campaign.

Parker...Batty without the skill

 

Butt...slightly inferior version of Batty

Parker...stronger tackler than Rob Lee, half the player.

 

Sorry mate but there is no way on earth that Parker is a stronger tackler than Rob Lee. And he's nowhere near half the player either.

 

Lee was solid defensively, but theres no way he could win half the challenges Parker can. No matter what other areas of Parker's game may be, hes a quality slide tackler, even if he does get caught out once in a while. Lee wasnt.

 

Lots of last ditch sliding tackles = lack of ability to anticipate and read the game. It's not a positive, it's a negative.

 

Couldn't agree more. This aspect of his game, and it's a major weakness defensively, makes him a mediocre defensive minded/inclined midfielder when comparing him to the likes of Makalele, Viera, Carrick etc. The same can be said when comparing him to Speed whose 'footballing smarts/brain', or his ability to read the game enabling him to adjust his positioning or when to simply hold his position in the midfield line when defending as you've inferred, enabled him to make a succesful conversion to the 'anchorman' type role that Robson bestowed upon him.

In relation to Parker and his 'defensive positional indiscipline'. It's bloody hard for the team's midfield to maintain any sort of defensive shape when the one bloke, who as captain is ultimately charged with the duty of leading the pack within centre of the engineroom, is running around like a headless chicken *trying to make tackles all over the park............................ *yet some will highlight this particular as a major strength, as one poster has previously done so within another thread.

Worked well under Souness?!

 

As a DCM, case closed. Move him back there and he'll work well again.

 

At the expense of the team, given the likelyhood that Roeder will stay with the 442 system especially with a prospective Martins-Owen strikepartnership looming on the horizon, if he's given the same or similar role as enjoyed under Souness where he basically patrolled the defensive half - sideline to sideline - and never ventured forward, but most importantly rarely taking up position in the flat bed of four across the midfield line in the opposition half. Souness funnelled Parker's energy reserves into that role, but it came at a great cost to the midfield's overall structure and functionality. It congested the midfield line, all too often a loose defensive midfielder was created for the opposition, and we were unable to spread the play when going forward hence we played narrow football as a result. Even worse the midfield was rarely able to maintain possession in the engineroom beyond the centre circle - we were repeatedly killed by that loose opposition midfielder i speak of.

The team's structure, functionality & effectiveness shouldn't be compromised just so that he can "work well again" as you say, namely in the aforementioned hacker-type capacity as was previously the case during Shithead's reign.

Parker can bugger off if he doesn't have the attributes/ability, and most importantly the quick thinking 'football brain' needed in order to be a solid/very good defensive & attack balanced 4-4-2 central midfielder alas Speed and Lee respectively.

Our very own captain.

FIFA have made us a £1 millionfinal offer for the injury to Owen durring the World Cup, we wanted £6 million but they will not offer any more!

And fair enough as well. This compensation warchest of theirs shouldn't be used to cover the arses of 'rich clubs', when the Owens or Beckhams of the football world go down at an international tourney, who can afford to offer Roles Royce wages in the first place.

Ajax's incarnation over the long haul has been pretty handy. In recent times - ie the last decade or so - the graduate list includes the likes of Van der Saar, Davids, Seedorf, the De Boers and a multitude of big-name Africans who emerged at the club in question.... and there's Rikjaard & Cruyff before them.

I see he's observed and learnt from the previous captain during Souness' reign, as per: media relations that is............... media friendly response after a shocking result/trying to polish a turd in the process, especially in the wake of another mediocre individual performance which has become the trademark for a bloke, who judging by the player's undroppable status, Roeder is incorrectly building his midfield around.

I agree and the stats - ie. the goals per game average - in the original post make sense. Our transition passing game and our potential to hurt teams on the counter suffers when Parker's in the middle - where more often than not he is the first user of the football in our own defensive half - and it' simply due to his inability to see the open passing lanes following an opposition turnover ie. when the opposition is briefly without defensive shape across the midfield line. I happen to think he's a 'slow thinking' or 'dumb' footballer who doesn't have a much in the locker in terms of having the vision needed to spot the passing lanes i'm speaking of, hence the indecisiveness when he's on the ball. We've got some counterattacking weapons on the pitch - ie. Martins, Dyer, Duff, Zoggy - and for a ball-winning midfieder who in most instances is supposed to be the transition/counterattacking game's catalyst Parker's aforementioned weakness is a cardinal sin, especially in a league which is counterattacking football-based.

We look a far more efficient counterattacking unit when the central combination is either Butt/Emre or Butt/Dyer. Butt's transition passing game is first rate, and it serves the midfield - and Martins beyond - well.

[quote author=madras link=topic=36261.msg714828#msg714828 date=1171848655

as for body language blah blah,think of bellamys when played wide then think of taylors,solanos,milners,duffswhen played out of position...ffs man even steven carr!!!!!!

To be honest i thought Bellamy's body language at the time, when employed on the right, bordered more on 'frustration' rather than a 'couldn't be f**cked' attitude. That frustration eminating from being the club's best player, a player who had just begun to hit a rich vein of form upfront, and knowing that he was far more capable of getting job done than the two lumbering & individually ineffective strikers whom Souness preferred up top......... one striker who should've been fourth choice, and the other a local icon - and Souness' mate - who was effectively finished the previous season in terms of no longer being a productive striker at the EPL level. Grounds for frustration imo, on Bellamy's part that is.

As for disobeying match instructions. Do you think Christiano Ronaldo follows orders/instruction to the very last letter? Players' of Ronaldo and Bellamy's ilk are free wielding playmakers, and once again effective managers - from both a strategic & man-management standpoint - are prepared to live with their moments of indiscipline as you have outlined because at the end of the day the reward, this being the unpredictable & matchwinning moments of brilliance for which they're capable of, is worth the price of admission on the manager's part.

 

Great observation, in keeping with your usual standard if I may say so mate .......

 

Can't believe that people booed someone who didn't want to leave the club, must be right idiots. What sort of reception would the Scottish fuckpig get ? Logic says the same people would cheer him and shake his hand if they met him .....

 

Martins is settling down well now. He still blows hot and cold for me, but his attitude is great and with a quality partner can only get better.

 

 

 

And booing somebody who still gave 100% effort out on the pitch despite being 'targeted for removal', and reportedly belittled in front of the entire 1st team squad by the idiot charge. Bellamy's performance level at the time, even when played out of position, imo overshadowed Shearer's showings and the subsequent body language & effort displayed out on the pitch during the final months of Gullit's tenureship. Both players', at their respective troubled periods at the club, days were numbered - ie. if both managers had their way - under two managers who had absolutely no confidence in the players in question whether it be for footballing or non-footballing reasons. So by comparing both Bellamy and Shearer's respective levels of effort & commitment during the aforementioned periods there's alot to be said in favour Bellamy's intestinal fortitude when faced with the environment of being targetted by an incumbent manger in charge. I know many supporters will obviously will take issue this point just because Bellamy and Shearer have mentioned in the same breath of air - as a point of comparison that is.

 

On to another comparison, that being Bellamy's reception on the weekend & Owen's at Anfield last year. Owen, with the aid of his agent - by constantly stalling contract talks & essentially playing Houllier and the Liverpool for fools for about 18 months, engineered his way out of Anfield so his reception was to be expected. Many Liverpool supporters think ill of him and understandably so - he was developed & nurtured by the club before taking the piss.

 

The reception afforded to Bellamy - ie. for a bloke who wanted to stay, contrary to Owen at Liverpool - was sad indeed. The same clowns, and they were probably the same type who were spouting s**** in the manner of "i hope somebody snaps the little Welsh f***ers legs off" in the week leading up to the game. I wonder if they also, and this refers to your point as to whether or not they'd shake the Scottish shitstain's hand, nodded in aknowlegement while shedding tears when Shearer dedicated his record breaking goal to the very same shitstain.

that could be matched by the beardsley/waddle receptions at SJP after moving.

 

strange for a player who gave 100%for us he told robson to "f*** off" and disobeyed match instructions,said if we bought rooney would have to /"consider his position"..even before this weekends shenanigans rumours were in hubcapland he was on his way this summer.as for body language blah blah,think of bellamys when played wide then think of taylors,solanos,milners,duffswhen played out of position...ffs man even steven carr!!!!!!

 

More often than not talented players have an ego attached. In Bellamy's case there's a combustable personality to match, like Roy Keane. Robson's problem wasn't that he took shite/outbursts with a pinch of salt, afterall decent managers know that occasionally they have to let their players release a bit of steam on occasion. Roy Keane's frequent outbursts at training are an example. Ferguson took onboard Keane's personality, was prepared to live with it and the product was a decade or so worth of top football. That's decent man-management and i think Robson was handling Bellamy in a similar type fashion. IMO where Robson got it all wrong was the incessant need to blow hot air up the arses of the likes of Dyer, Jenas et al.... and Bellamy can be included to a lesser extent. By throwing out constant praise some of these blokes - ie. especially Dyer - thought they had become world-beaters and began to take the piss out of their careers.