merlin
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Posts posted by merlin
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hate to say it, but im sure it will be sven
Hate to say it? Sven is by far the best manager we have any hope of getting.
Dohhhhh !!!!!
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Shepherd Out......!!!!!
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Relegation VERY possible - form disastrous, difficult fixtures ahead, with serious consequences for morale if next 2 games are defeats.
Watch this space...
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Roeder should not have been appointed - Shepherd went for quick , cheap fix & failed - AGAIN.
Just Roeder leaving will not cure the problem - they BOTH need to go , and QUICKLY.
The club needs new direction on & off the field, with a totally professional & focussed approach.
Problem is , time is against us - Christmas may be too late if results go badly over the next few weeks.
Things need to happen, and fast....
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So we're down to 16th in the league and just 2 points off the relegation zone.
Anyone worried yet?
Naah, we aren't going to get relegated, there is still Charlton, Fulham, Sheff United and Watford worse than us.
No way will Charlton, Sheff Utd or Watford finish above us.
Would you put money on the current side being able to go to ANY of those 3 and pick up 3 points in a relegation scrap....
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Re Fat Fred buying the club out...
It's not an impossible scenario. He's accumulated shares up to just under the point where he'd have to make a formal bid for ownership of the club. It's possible he could arrange the finance to buy out the Halls if they want to sell up, and if the Halls look like selling their shares to someone else, that might be what he'd do.
Unlikely, in my opinion, but if he does its in the fans' own hands to screw him up - total boycott needed, let his investment go down & down - just as he will take the Club down & down.
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Fred to 'eat Humble Pie..' Love it, Love it - after all, the rest of the Pies have already gone, so Humble Pie is fine - any port in a storm..!!
Seriously, people defending Roeder - you despair at times. Its no wonder FS gets away with everything he has done in the past few years..
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Action is needed, not words - only thing he understands is empty seats & empty Club Shops - would be great, but it aint going to happen yet ; too many fans just go to games for something to do/get away from wife/shopping/DIY or whatever.
A better idea would be to get hold of the Belgravia group's spokesperson, and send them a large petition asking them to go ahead with the takeover to remove Shepherd & save the Club - that kind of thing would get into the press(the Belgravia guys themselves would want to put pressure on the Board too).
We don't know if they would be the complete answer, but they can't be any worse than what has happened over the past few years. The Club is in freefall, and a laughing stock.
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I've had my say on all this stuff - my opinion about it all is clear, and if the results continue to go as they did yesterday, there will be unremitting pressure on the Board & manager, and quite deservedly.
The buck stops with them, but they gat paid for it - the fans are the ones suffering.
Others have their view - that is their right - but it sure as hell won't change mine. Talking about the past is irrelevant to our current status, and unless there are big changes soon , Shepherd & Co will join the elite ranks of Directors who have succeeded in relegating a great Club.
No more comments from me on this thread.
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Not being funny, but if you are so sure it is right not to consider Boards of pre-1992 do you believe it is impossible that a replacement for the current Board could be like those of pre-1992 going back decades?
That's a serious question.
I would think that somebody who was heavily involved with the magpie group and played an active part in getting rid of the old board has a lot of valid points to make on the subject of the board. I would say his opinion is more valid than both of ours although it doesn't stop either of us having an opinion.
I would also think most people realise we could get worse than we've got as chairman, we just don't automatically think it will happen and hope this isn’t the case.
A lot of people can also see how we’ve gone backwards under Shepherd although we have no divine right to do better than we are.
You can knock the old board as much as you want, it’s easy. But, I don’t see anything in Shepherd to make me think he’s doing any better than they did or would have done better than them if he was in the same position.
The old board didn’t become shit over night, it was a combination of a lot of mistakes by a lot of people and it just snowballed. McKeag seems to get most of the blame, I hated him more than any other chairman at the time because I was looking at the current situation, at that time, and blamed him for everything. In reality it was something that happened and part of the reason was the state of football in this country, you can ignore this is you want but I would just say look at attendance figures for football in general, they were crap at most grounds. That didn’t really pick up until Sky came on the scene and pumped more money into football than ever before.
I’m not trying to defend the board of old, they were crap and made mistakes. The only chairman of old that Shepherd might have been better than is Westwood because Freddy might have splashed more cash after the Fairs Cup win, then again he might not have, we’ll never know.
What I do know is that Shepherd couldn’t have spent money at that time if the club didn’t have it, the banks would not have allowed it. He’s got no record of appointing managers who have been a success so I have no reason to think he would have done any better on that score than the old boards.
What has he done that suggests he would have done better back then?
It’s also a serious question because I don’t see anything on his CV that gives me any confidence that things would have been better back then, under him.
Yes, they were crap, so is he. I have no personal reason to dislike Shepherd other than what he's done to our club. Where we were the day he took over and where we have been for far too much of his chairmanship and that's down to him for appointing the wrong people and backing failures, he did that, not us. We now appear to be strapped for cash, the reason is his two mistakes, appointing shit then backing it with far too much money, it was doomed the day Souness was appointed, Shepherd got one of his top two priorities wrong when he appointed Souness then got the second priority, the clubs finances wrong by backing Souness with mega sums of money.
Sorry about the rant, I'm not sure where that came from.
Good post Mick - agree with most of your summary.
Fact that I was involved in Magpie Group does NOT give me a divine right to be right !
Football is a game of opinions , and every fan is entitled to their own.
Having experienced the whole thing back in the late 80s'early 90s does give me an insight into certain aspects of the club which some fans may not have(as well as some knowledge of the characters), but most supporters know that the club is in need of refreshing and dynamic Direction.
All the playing problems stem from this, and a new approach, with more honest & above-board running of the Club is desperately required.
One thing I DO know, which many will not - on the eve of our first game of 92/93(Promotion season), Sir John had a look round SJP in the late afternoon - he found that many of the seats were covered in dust following painting/decorating . Everyone had gone home , so he and Lady Mae spent several hours arranging and assisting for the cleaning of these prior to the next day.
He told us about this himself on the day of the match(v Southend), and how annoyed they'd been with the ground management for not checking.
Can you see this happening today.....!!
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No he wasn't given that information but he thinks like HTL that he knows it all. He cant justify half the stuff he posts.
Mick,
Lets not wind them up anymore mate, its gone on too long.
The majority of long term posters on here and some short term have the club at heart, there will always be differing views. Nobody knows any more than anyone else unless they are related to the hierarchy.
Some get abusive and insulting when their views are questioned, some use humour and some do lie. We all know that but personally I never leave the board without having a chuckle at the banter, insults etc.
I have respect for all Newcastle fans for putting up with mediocrity for so long and remaining loyal, although I sometimes wish they had a bit more fore in their belly.
I have supported them through thin and thin since the days of Eastham, White and Allchurch if not before. Have not had the opportunity to seemany home games but have travelled extensively to watch them away, when some of the dides they put out would have struggled in the Conference.
I have fond memories of Len White era, the Stan Anderson/Jim Iley era/ the KK era.
It would just be great to actually win something and then maintain the challenge.
l
Good post, Fox - I reckon this is dragging on for too long.
For what its worth, Hamman(the only one worth commenting on , since he departed in the last 10 years)
said, after he left , that ; 'The Board was average, so the Club was average' , but confirmed that he had actually enjoyed living in the NE and travelling round the area.
He didn't get on with Gullit, either.
The others departed over 10 years ago - Gazza was the last local lad of any significance to leave, and that was in 1988. Personally, I think we should only be considering events that happened since the Hall/Shepherd takeover in 1992.
Every supporter wants the club to WIN THINGS - at least, that should be the object of the exercise, as it is only by doing that that the club will develop as it should.
Not being funny, but if you are so sure it is right not to consider Boards of pre-1992 do you believe it is impossible that a replacement for the current Board could be like those of pre-1992 going back decades?
That's a serious question.
It IS a serious question, and one deserving of an honest answer.
Firstly, the reason not to get involved with stuff that happened prior to 1992 is that there are quite a few who read the board that weren't very old when the Pop Robson or Waddle/Beardsley stuff happened(its nearly 20 years since even Beardsley left for Liverpool).
Those of us who are well into middle-age know all about it , and can remember the facts.
Secondly - I DON'T know if any person/Group replacing the current Board will be like the pre-1992 outfit ;
how can I, I'm not a Crystal-ball reader - however, the Boards of pre-92 vintage were, in the main, family Dynasties. Even though we are, on the face of it, a PLC, in reality we are now once again a Family dynastic Club ; all very well IF the top man at the time is capable & ambitious FOR THE CLUB , but its a lottery in that respect.
My judgement that a change of ownership/Direction is necessary is based on events of past 3 years(in the main), and if a TRULY ambitious Group takes over, we can do much better than this.
In addition, a business-minded organisation would want to make the club more successful in order to maximise its potential - without Football success, the club is not really doing that.
Hope that answers your question.
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No he wasn't given that information but he thinks like HTL that he knows it all. He cant justify half the stuff he posts.
Mick,
Lets not wind them up anymore mate, its gone on too long.
The majority of long term posters on here and some short term have the club at heart, there will always be differing views. Nobody knows any more than anyone else unless they are related to the hierarchy.
Some get abusive and insulting when their views are questioned, some use humour and some do lie. We all know that but personally I never leave the board without having a chuckle at the banter, insults etc.
I have respect for all Newcastle fans for putting up with mediocrity for so long and remaining loyal, although I sometimes wish they had a bit more fore in their belly.
I have supported them through thin and thin since the days of Eastham, White and Allchurch if not before. Have not had the opportunity to seemany home games but have travelled extensively to watch them away, when some of the dides they put out would have struggled in the Conference.
I have fond memories of Len White era, the Stan Anderson/Jim Iley era/ the KK era.
It would just be great to actually win something and then maintain the challenge.
l
Good post, Fox - I reckon this is dragging on for too long.
For what its worth, Hamman(the only one worth commenting on , since he departed in the last 10 years)
said, after he left , that ; 'The Board was average, so the Club was average' , but confirmed that he had actually enjoyed living in the NE and travelling round the area.
He didn't get on with Gullit, either.
The others departed over 10 years ago - Gazza was the last local lad of any significance to leave, and that was in 1988. Personally, I think we should only be considering events that happened since the Hall/Shepherd takeover in 1992.
Every supporter wants the club to WIN THINGS - at least, that should be the object of the exercise, as it is only by doing that that the club will develop as it should.
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Quote "I think it is pretty obvious to say the club hasn’t reached the Keegan heights since, at least on the playing side of things."
So at last you admit it has gone backwards since Keegans days, all under the Chairmanship of Freddie.
Case closed.
So you expect a club to stay 2nd forever ?
I expect such naivety from people who don't go to games.
So going to football matches removes naivety? Does it get rid of dandruff as well?
OK then, so - do YOU think clubs have a divine right to stay 2nd forever, or they are "shit" ?
You are into turntables, right ? Do you think a rega planar 2 is shite because it isn't as good as a rega 3 ?
I think it is pretty fair. The facts are that SJH was chairman while Keegan was manager and we have not done so well since.
However - we still have the same board, primarily, with the same major shareholders. Is this correct or not ?
Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher were responsible for appointing Keegan as manager, NOT Sir John Hall.
So - why exactly does Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher get zero credit for Keegans appointment ? And SJH all of it ?
The same SJH who showed outstanding leadership and "planning" that he almost lost him only weeks into his managerial career for going back on his word to sign a couple of players for a couple of hundred grand apiece ? Good leadership and good planning ?
Hall Jnr and Shepherd were also responsible for appointing Dalglish to succeed Keegan, who was a multiple trophy winner [ 4 League championships with 2 different clubs, 2 FA Cups and 3 manager of the year awards] and one of the highest qualified managers in world football to take on the Newcastle job. If you are not impressed with that, what is your criteria for appointing managers ?
I am sorry...I can accept you have an "opinion", but where plain facts show an opinion to be flawed, it is right that facts are pointed out and if people can't accept them because they have a paranoid opinion, and no mind of their own that enables them to arrive at a factual based opinion, then that is their problem.
As for Fox, he was a whinging bugger when Robson was manager, so as I said, I am not surprised he is whinging now. You know, the same Bobby Robson who got us in the top 3, and played in the Champions League while having a shite board.
I can shed some light on the claim that SJH 'went back on his word ' about signing a couple of players , prompting KK to walk away. This actually happened on March 12 , 1992(the day we played Swindon, winning 3-1 , and KK left straight after the game).
As ever with KK , he jumped first & asked questions later - I know for a fact that the Bank which NUFC were using at that time , wanted to take 250,000 , PRIVATE MONEY put up by SJH & Lady Hall , to pay off part of the O/Draft. SJH would not allow that to happen , which is why the deal was delayed(this was actually for Kilcline). In the end , an agreement was reached which allowed the club to use the money for the player , but KK reacted without clarifying the position first. SJH had to ring him up at his home in Romsey(Hants) to sort the whole thing out , and he actually said 'there are 2 people who can save NUFC, and they are both on different ends of this phone-line...'
The rest is history , but DON'T accuse SJH of 'backing out' - why would he ? He had spent 4 years & a few Mill in order to get the club in the first place. Shepherd is NOT A PATCH on him as Chairman , without question.
Keegan says on page 205 in his book "Neither George Forbes nor Peter Mallinger knew that on Monday 3 February 1992 I was being asked to take over as Newcastle Manager on the Wednesday. When it came to the crunch, it was Fletcher, Shepherd and Douglas Hall who wanted me to replace Ossie Ardiles".
Further down the page he says about a meeting they had " I was not very impressed with him (Hall Snr). It was obvious that he wasn't comfortable with my proposed appointment. I could understand why, because he has put his name to an article by Bob Cass in the Mail on Sunday three days earlier which claimed that ossie's job was safe, and I knew that his family had built up a strong friendship with Ossie's. I was also concerned that neither Mallinger nor Forbes was present. Whatever Sir John thought about the situation he was in the minority. The other 3 laid the cards on the table: the club was on its way down and they had to do something very quickly if they were going to halt the decline. It seemed to me that Sir John was being given no choice.
He seemed anxious to get away - his original reason for coming down to London with his wife Lady Mae was to buy some trees in Kew Gardens. But I would not let him slip away until I knew how much money would be available to me for players. He told me that there would be 1m straight away and a further million if it was required. That was what I wanted to hear. It might not sound like a lot of money these days, but then I felt it was as much as I needed"
Further down he says "I must have been the only manager to be appointed without the knowledge of the chairman and vice chairman, neither of whom was informed until an hour before the press conference at which the news was made public. And even the future chairman - the man with the money - indicated that it was his colleagues rather than himself who wanted me."
A few pages later, on page 213, he says "What I did not know what that Sir John hall was playing political games with the other directors, Bob Young, George Forbes, Peter Mallinger and Gordon McKeag, in the matter of funds he had promised me. He was quite prepared to put in his share of the money I needed, which amounted to 40 per cent, but he told the others that they had to find the
remaining 60 per cent. That was not fair, because none of them had been given a say in my appointment, or even known about it, let alone an opportunity to turn down or agree to my original demands. As far as I was concerned, it wasn't their problem and I never held anything against Forbes and Mallinger over the issue.
All this was going on as a sideshow to the relegation battle and I decided that enough was enough. I filled Terry {Mac} in on the details and told him that we had no alternative but to go. Sir John had to keep his promises, regardless of his problems with the others and how much they might or might not put in."
, on pagef 214, he says "The player I wanted, Darren McDonough from Luton, was only going to cost £100,000, a fraction of the 1m or even the 2m pledged to me to get the club out of trouble"
Then, after the Swindon game, while driving out of the ground with Terry (Mac) - " I'm finished here and none of you know. I was furious, not with Forbes, Mallinger or the other directors, but with Sir John Hall".
I have heard what you say mate ie about the 250 grand. I am only quoting from Keegans book. It is only one side, but does anyone think Keegan told us lies ? I don't. I'm not casting judgement on SJH either, nobody can after how it all turned out, I too wish we were still in such a position and that Keegan had not left the club.
Got all details I told you about from 'horses mouth' day before Port Vale game(couple of weeks prior to the walk-out).
Other board members reluctant to put in money , all left within a few months - if SJH had really not wanted KK, could have let him go after walk-out.Brian Little had not settled in Leicester after taking Darlo
to back-to-back promotions and would probably have been available(Little is a Geordie , was only in his late 30's at the time , and DID have some top-level success with A.Villa before making big mistake by signing Collymore).David Kelly played under Little at Leicester, and reckoned he was the best manager he ever played under....
Sir John still made the effort to get KK back AND let him scrap Reserves etc a few years later(something I personally would have been hard-pushed to allow), so he cannot have thought that badly of him.
Neither of these guys is without faults(are any of us?), but neither possess as many as Shepherd..
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Quote "I think it is pretty obvious to say the club hasn’t reached the Keegan heights since, at least on the playing side of things."
So at last you admit it has gone backwards since Keegans days, all under the Chairmanship of Freddie.
Case closed.
So you expect a club to stay 2nd forever ?
I expect such naivety from people who don't go to games.
So going to football matches removes naivety? Does it get rid of dandruff as well?
OK then, so - do YOU think clubs have a divine right to stay 2nd forever, or they are "shit" ?
You are into turntables, right ? Do you think a rega planar 2 is shite because it isn't as good as a rega 3 ?
I think it is pretty fair. The facts are that SJH was chairman while Keegan was manager and we have not done so well since.
However - we still have the same board, primarily, with the same major shareholders. Is this correct or not ?
Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher were responsible for appointing Keegan as manager, NOT Sir John Hall.
So - why exactly does Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher get zero credit for Keegans appointment ? And SJH all of it ?
The same SJH who showed outstanding leadership and "planning" that he almost lost him only weeks into his managerial career for going back on his word to sign a couple of players for a couple of hundred grand apiece ? Good leadership and good planning ?
Hall Jnr and Shepherd were also responsible for appointing Dalglish to succeed Keegan, who was a multiple trophy winner [ 4 League championships with 2 different clubs, 2 FA Cups and 3 manager of the year awards] and one of the highest qualified managers in world football to take on the Newcastle job. If you are not impressed with that, what is your criteria for appointing managers ?
I am sorry...I can accept you have an "opinion", but where plain facts show an opinion to be flawed, it is right that facts are pointed out and if people can't accept them because they have a paranoid opinion, and no mind of their own that enables them to arrive at a factual based opinion, then that is their problem.
As for Fox, he was a whinging bugger when Robson was manager, so as I said, I am not surprised he is whinging now. You know, the same Bobby Robson who got us in the top 3, and played in the Champions League while having a shite board.
I can shed some light on the claim that SJH 'went back on his word ' about signing a couple of players , prompting KK to walk away. This actually happened on March 12 , 1992(the day we played Swindon, winning 3-1 , and KK left straight after the game).
As ever with KK , he jumped first & asked questions later - I know for a fact that the Bank which NUFC were using at that time , wanted to take 250,000 , PRIVATE MONEY put up by SJH & Lady Hall , to pay off part of the O/Draft. SJH would not allow that to happen , which is why the deal was delayed(this was actually for Kilcline). In the end , an agreement was reached which allowed the club to use the money for the player , but KK reacted without clarifying the position first. SJH had to ring him up at his home in Romsey(Hants) to sort the whole thing out , and he actually said 'there are 2 people who can save NUFC, and they are both on different ends of this phone-line...'
The rest is history , but DON'T accuse SJH of 'backing out' - why would he ? He had spent 4 years & a few Mill in order to get the club in the first place. Shepherd is NOT A PATCH on him as Chairman , without question.
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People say it is more to do with his team ie John Roberson etc..and the understanding they have rather than just O'Neil alone.
People said that about Clough too , as he used to leave much of the training etc. to Peter Taylor , but he proved he could do it without Taylor at Forest after they fell out.
In any case , who cares if O'Neill's success IS down to his Coaching staff? If he had brought them to SJP & achieved similar results here , no-one would have given a damn...
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BUMP
He's done nowt yet and I liken much of Villa's early season form to that of ours under Roeder just after Souness got sacked. Basically Souness going was the big lift, same with O'Leary who had a similar effect on Villa that Souness had on us, minus the money spent. Lets see if he can do to Villa what KK did to us or Sir Bobby even. I'm not so sure, although it does seem like he'll get lots of money to spend so he might.
Either way we'll find out whether he really is as good or as great as many make him out to be.
Agreed. He might be good, but you can't say he is yet. If he, say, repeats what Bobby Robson was for Newcastle then we can rank him alongide that as being a good appointment, if not then he isn't, its pretty straightforward.
Worth noting, is also that O'leary, when he went to Villa was touted as the next big manager just like O'Neill is supposed to be now, and he got to the semi Final of the European Cup, far superior than the UEFA Cup Final. But time will tell.
O'Leary took an already top 6 team, spent 100m pounds, nearly bankrupted it, got it to a CL semi final, but won nothing.
MON took a shit squad in a shit league to the UEFA cup final. I'm a Villa fan, and DOL was the worst manager we have ever had. Worse than Billy McNeill, worse than Tommy Docherty. He created a situation whereby, last summer, most of the squad wanted to leave. He constantl talked the team down, alienated the supporters, turned good players into bad ones, and created an atmosphere of doom throughout the club, from top to bottom. I pity the next club who employ this man
MON has, in a very short time, turned the team around beyod belief. Don't forget, he took the job less than 2 weeks before the start of the season, and the transfer window closed before the Lerner take over was finalised, so he has had no money other than that spent on Petrov. He's also lost Milner (considered our best player last year), and De La Cruz, so strictly speaking, he's got an even smaller squad than DOL had.
We're now still unbeaten, along with Everton (not forgetting the fact that we've had away games at Arsenal and Chelsea, whereas Everton have barely been tested). He's turned things around entirely, in pretty much no time. I don't expect us to qualify for the CL this year, but UEFA qualification is a possibility. This is with a squad which most people had written off last year as "shite".
I honestly would not swap MON for any other manager you care to mention, working anywhere. He has instilled a buzz, a confidence, and a feeling that we can be great again in every part of the club, from top to bottom. He took the job and *immediately* understood what the fans wanted, got a feel for the history of the club, recognised what the problems were, and talked about how he was going to solve them. Belive me, this man is a great manager, and an extraordinary motivator. I find it amusing that you suggest achieving what SBR did for Newcastle as the benchmark of a good appointment - he's going to do a lot more than that
Isn't it funny how one finds so many doubters of MON's ability on the boards of teams who he was linked with but rejected / not appointed for whatever reason?
/quote]
Agree with your comments, Brummie - think you'll have a much better season than anyone expected , although I DID think O'Neill would soon turn the club round.
Personally , I have no resentment that you have O'Neill - he would have been wasted at NUFC , and you guys have had a fairly rough time over the past few years(although not quite the Pantomime that is NUFc..!!).
Most of the dissenters on here are probably p'd off , not because they are jealous(although there will be some of that), but because they slagged the guy off during the summer when he was linked with us , and are now in great danger of imbibing large chunks of that often-eaten dish , HUMBLE PIE.!!
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The brains and bravado that define O'Neill
Kevin McCarra
Saturday September 30, 2006
The Guardian
Aston Villa are the predictable surprise of this campaign. In view of a restricted squad and a 16th-place finish in the Premiership last season, they have no business holding an unbeaten record, but, then again, it is the sort of transformation expected of Martin O'Neill. Even if there is the obvious chance of a setback at Chelsea this afternoon the likelihood is great that Villa's progress would still resume shortly.
Few managers come with a guarantee as O'Neill does. Discord with the then chairman at Norwich saw him walk away after a few months, but his formula has worked wherever he has had free rein. The O'Neill effect seems to have an immediate effect on prospective employers. Given the opportunity, he swiftly secured the post at his previous club.
"Guus Hiddink was very prominent in our thoughts and in a certain regard he was our benchmark," said the Celtic chairman Brian Quinn, casting his mind back to the summer of 2000. "Then Martin came to speak to the board over dinner at [the principal shareholder] Dermot Desmond's suite in the Dorchester. After an hour and a half there was no further discussion about who our manager should be."
There is a temptation to portray O'Neill as a horse whisperer for footballers, with the magical knack of galvanising them. Quinn, however, sees a more basic foundation to this manager's style. "Martin is a smart fellow," he said, "and intelligence is the key. He is persuasive, he speaks well, he can marshal an argument and he is a very decent tactician. Of course, he is also an outstanding man-manager."
O'Neill has a track record in pulling off disconcerting coups in the transfer market. Tony Cottee was a prominent example, brought back to England from Selangor of Malaysia in 1997 to play for Leicester when he was already 32. "I got him out of a hole and then he got me out of one," O'Neill has said succinctly. Cottee scored 27 goals in 66 Premiership starts and was in the 2000 line-up that brought the League Cup to Filbert Street for the second time in three years.
Entertaining and genial as O'Neill can be, the intensity and potential for severity do not drop completely from sight. "Leicester were the League Cup holders when I arrived," Cottee recalls, "but we were knocked out at Grimsby. Martin asked me in the dressing room how much he had paid for me. I told him it was £500,000 and he said, '£500,000 too much'. I can remember him giving a terrible bollocking to Neil Lennon, but he also knew that Emile Heskey wouldn't play for you if you did that to him. Martin would make Emile believe he could beat four men and smash the ball into the net."
Any good manager appreciates that he needs a range of tones for a variety of footballers, but O'Neill is a virtuoso in gauging such matters. He is intriguing, too, in the way he controls relationships with players. "You never knew exactly where you were with him," said Cottee. "He could be your best friend when you met him in the corridor one day and the next he would ignore you. It might have been that his mind was a million miles away, but Martin could just as easily have been thinking, 'He didn't play for me at all in that last game, the bastard. I'll walk straight past him.' You never knew exactly where you stood with him. It kept you on your toes."
Tiresome to O'Neill as the comparisons are, there are echoes of his old boss Brian Clough. In the Villa backroom staff John Robertson, with his keen eye for a player, is a counterpart to Peter Taylor and acts as the manager's envoy to the squad, happy, as Cottee puts it, "to have a fag or a pint with them". While O'Neill focuses minds by attending training, in particular, on Thursdays and Fridays, preparations are under the command of Steve Walford, whom Cottee considers "a very underrated coach".
The human dynamics of O'Neill and his backroom staff are intricate, making it most likely that he told the FA his men would have to accompany him if he became the England manager. Loyalties develop around him. "He gives you a challenge," explained Cottee, "and if you meet it you become one of his lieutenants and you feel you will play with him forever. Lennon, [Muzzy] Izzet and [steve] Guppy were like that."
O'Neill has a habit of establishing bonds of a different nature as well. "He has the entrepreneur's skill at identifying an undervalued asset," said Quinn. "He signed players who were not in demand. Then he put them on very good contracts. They were eternally grateful to him for lifting them on to an entirely different earning plane and would give everything for him."
Didier Agathe, who is now on Villa's books until January at least, was one such case. O'Neill first saw him in 2000 as a striker on a short-term deal scoring for Hibernian while at centre-forward. Celtic bought him for £50,000, turned Agathe into a wing-back as capable of making a solid contribution in the Champions League as he was in the Scottish Premier League. There were several tales of that sort, with, on a wholly different price range, Chris Sutton emerging from an abject season with Chelsea to terrorise the likes of Juventus.
O'Neill, in consequence, is hailed as an alchemist, but a shrewd pragmatism is the real foundation of all that he does. The histrionics on the touchline are misleading. "I was on the bench a lot when I was first at Leicester," Cottee said, "and he would be jumping around and shouting at the referee and linesman. I was asking myself how he could possibly see what was going on, but at half-time he was absolutely spot-on with his comments. He said more in ten seconds than another manager could in ten minutes."
There cannot be many rivals left who are so foolish as to mistake O'Neill for an eccentric, even if he is a bit absent-minded over non-football concerns. This is an alert, ambitious manager. Having made an ever-increasing impact at Wycombe, Leicester and Celtic he now aches to compete for the Premiership and European honours. He is in his present job because he believes that his talent and Randy Lerner's money can transmute Villa into just such a mighty club.
O'Neill v Mourinho
Martin O'Neill yesterday insisted he had the "utmost regard" for Jose Mourinho despite their fall-out after the Uefa Cup final in Seville three years ago.
That was the last time the two managers met when O'Neill, then in charge of Celtic, accused Mourinho's triumphant Porto side of "poor sportsmanship".
Mourinho responded by criticising Celtic for their overly aggressive approach.
"I'm tempted to use another word - but I won't," said the Portuguese
http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1884373,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=7
i think that somes up Martin O'neill i think he is a class manager, who if was at newcastle now we would be in the top 3, as he would of had the tactical nouce to bring in players for positions that needed to be improved, and we might have petrov now bluesigh.gif
Many of the qualities outlined above would definitely rule O'Neill out as a suitable Manager for NUFC - Whilst FS & Co are in charge ; Intelligence ? Not required. Keeping Players on their toes? What? Dyer ,Bellamy et al? Don't think so.
Had O'Neill been stupid enough to join NUFC last summer , his actions at Norwich would soon have been repeated...!!
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He cannot survive in the current environment , even if he had a chance in the first place(which I do not believe he did - should never have been appointed & wouldn't have been if anyone decent had agreed to take the job).
Too many off-field problems now , even for a top manager , and we need the club's position sorting out ASAP. Cannot see him surviving past season's end unless he works a miracle in the second half - even then , new owners will probably want a top-class guy in charge .
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One other possibility though is that should the Belgravia takeover eventually go through(which it probably will once FFS and SJH get what they want), will Glenn Roeder be ambitious enough for them. My gut feeling is probably no, and they will look to appoint their own man. Whether they wait until the end of the season, give Glenn a pat on the back and move him upstairs, or just boot him out straight away would be the 6 million dollar question
MY feelings exactly , but we can only hope the club is still going to be in the Premiership when the new outfit takes over.....
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I think you'll find that a lot of those 'to the end of the season' votes will change dramatically if the Club is near the bottom 3 at Christmas.....
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They will do very well , as most people on here are aware - methinks some people should remember the old saying about removing the plank from ones own eye before telling someone else about the dust in theirs...!! Or , perhaps , the Pot & Kettle..
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Should be sold as soon as poss for best price available - another Marcelino in the making here.
Spanish players have not , apart from those under a Spanish manager at L/Pool , been a great success in the EPL.
Duff is a great replacement , and the money is needed for a CF.
Also , Luque is 28 - not much time to improve - even Viana was deemed unlikely to make it in EPL & he was only 21.
Narrowing it down
in Football
Posted
And who else is going to take the job?