Cardiff City: Premiership Rejects Turning on the Class

[Guest Gemmill]

Did I say look like a tit?

 

Did you make any sense.

 

You're right though.  I mean Matty Pattison doesn't look much cop.  Best we give him an extended run in the team to be absolutely certain.

[Guest Sniffer]

Matty pattison has not shown what he is capable of doing, albeit at a lower level, when given the opportunity.

 

Jesus, how dumb are you not to be able to see the point?

[Guest Gemmill]

Shola is better than Chopra, therefore Chopra doesn't get an extended run in the team as it would mean fielding an under-strength side.  Is this sinking in yet?  Would it help if you punctuated each word by slapping yourself on the forehead?

[Lloydie]

At no stage was Chopra a better player than Shola.

 

But he should have been given more of a crack at the first team at some stage, because I don't think he did have a chance to prove himself properly. Still, if he keeps going as he is he'll find himself back in the premiership sooner or later and we can find out then...

 

One thing that is certain is that he's getting more games now at Cardiff than he would here.

[Cajun]

I think he did well in his first spell then not so well in his second. At the end of the day even if he is good enough for a lower premiership side thats still not what we need. He would be 4th choice (at best here) and he doesnt want that. Time to let him go...

 

I would be happy with Martins Owen Chopra as a potential frontline, with Dyer as emergency backup

 

I don't think anyone has a decent reliable 4th choice striker that doesn't want away

 

Lucky Chopra isnt the type of player that is going to leave for first team football then.

[Guest Knightrider]

I have to agree with Gemmill, despite our issues with Shola, he'd piss the Championship like, I couldn't see Chopra or many from that level going to Barcelona and perfoming like he did against Puyol and co or doing what he did to Dessailly a few years back. For all his faults, Shola is a Premiership standard player who has at least proven in some form or another he is able to compete with players at this level.

[Delima]

As I argued if he was better than Ameobi surely at least one of the managers would have noticed this and given him hios chance, especially considering Shola and Shearer normally looked horrible as a partnership!

 

Ameobi is a big powerful centre forward. His physical attributes make him so valuable to different managers even though it is evident he has little skills and composure. Players like Chopra and Defoe are clever little players. Both didn't produce instantly when given an opportunity. Whereas Defoe is given chances after chances, games after games, Chopra isn't afforded such luxury as we have plenty of cash to spend on new, more experienced and more proven strikers.

 

Chopra's big disadvantage is he isn't tall, strong and powerful like Ameobi and Sibierski. He won't be a shortsighted solution, like Ameobi and Sibierski, to any team. That's why he will got little chance in Newcastle United.

[Guest Gemmill]

Chopra's big disadvantage is he isn't tall, strong and powerful like Ameobi and Sibierski. He won't be a shortsighted solution, like Ameobi and Sibierski, to any team. That's why he will got little chance in Newcastle United.

 

Not being tall, strong or powerful is a problem for most strikers in the Premiership but it's not insurmountable.  It's generally solved by the smaller player being pacy, like Defoe, Bellamy etc.  Chopra doesn't even have that in his arsenal. 

 

Comparing him to Defoe is madness btw, as Defoe is streets ahead of Chopra.  It's got nothing to do with shortsightedness, and everything to do with him not being good enough.

[Guest Knightrider]

Technically Shola is a good player, he certainly has the abilities, he just lacks composure, decision making and that inner drive to put his talents to better use, I actually like him as a player, despire accepting he's never going to be good enough for where we want to be, but he isn't half as bad as some make out. He's a good squad player.

[Delima]

Not being tall, strong or powerful is a problem for most strikers in the Premiership but it's not insurmountable.  It's generally solved by the smaller player being pacy, like Defoe, Bellamy etc.  Chopra doesn't even have that in his arsenal. 

 

Comparing him to Defoe is madness btw, as Defoe is streets ahead of Chopra.  It's got nothing to do with shortsightedness, and everything to do with him not being good enough.

 

Chopra not being pacy? I have to disagree with you on this.

 

I don't disagree with you that Chopra wasn't as good as Ameobi, for I happily agree that physical attributes are part and parcel of a striker's ability and hence Chopra Ameobi was better. But I still hold the opinion that Chopra has the potential to be a premiership striker in the same class as Bellamy and Defoe.

[Guest Knightrider]

Chopra's big disadvantage is he isn't tall, strong and powerful like Ameobi and Sibierski. He won't be a shortsighted solution, like Ameobi and Sibierski, to any team. That's why he will got little chance in Newcastle United.

 

Not being tall, strong or powerful is a problem for most strikers in the Premiership but it's not insurmountable.  It's generally solved by the smaller player being pacy, like Defoe, Bellamy etc.  Chopra doesn't even have that in his arsenal. 

 

Comparing him to Defoe is madness btw, as Defoe is streets ahead of Chopra.  It's got nothing to do with shortsightedness, and everything to do with him not being good enough.

 

I've seen quite a bit of Chopra this season and he isn't slow, he's no Bellamy but he's quick, maybe not over a distance, but in the first few yards he is or appears to be. He's scored a few goals this term by nipping in ahead of his marker for example. He's certainly no slouch anyway, ala Sibierski or Shearer.

 

Pace is overrated anyway, look at Dyer, quick as they coime but for a long time he was an unproductive player, and there are many countless examples of players with pace who are average to say the least.

[Guest Gemmill]

Chopra has the potential to be a premiership striker in the same class as Bellamy and Defoe.

 

  You're having a laugh mate.  And he's not quick.  He's like Milner - he looks like he should be quick, but ultimately he disappoints.

[Guest Gemmill]

Pace is overrated anyway

 

Nah it's not.  Pace is huge in the Premiership.  Look at us a few years ago with Bellamy and Robert in the team.  Look at the difference having Dyer and Martins up front does for us.  Can you imagine say Shearer and Sibierski?

 

Pace is even more important when you lack a physical presence - like Chopra does.

[Guest Knightrider]

Pace is overrated anyway

 

Nah it's not.  Pace is huge in the Premiership.  Look at us a few years ago with Bellamy and Robert in the team.  Look at the difference having Dyer and Martins up front does for us.  Can you imagine say Shearer and Sibierski?

 

Pace is even more important when you lack a physical presence - like Chopra does.

 

Of course it is important, but the way some go on, not saying you here BTW, you'd think that anyone with pace must be a good footballer or that you need pace badly in your team. Pace is no good if you lack everything else. In the general sense, it is overrated. Paul Scholes isn't quick, nor was Beardsley, Teddy Sheringham or Roy Keane. Nor was Shearer. Pace will always play second fiddle to ability and even work-rate, physicality and a strong mentality.

 

There are very few players with pace and everything else, Bellamy is strong and has a high work-rate, pace is a large part of his game of course, but he would still be a good player without it, just as Owen will always score goals, with or without pace.

 

Anyway we are discussing semantics here. I agree with you but it isn't the be all and end all.

[Guest Gemmill]

Pace is overrated anyway

 

Nah it's not.  Pace is huge in the Premiership.  Look at us a few years ago with Bellamy and Robert in the team.  Look at the difference having Dyer and Martins up front does for us.  Can you imagine say Shearer and Sibierski?

 

Pace is even more important when you lack a physical presence - like Chopra does.

 

Of course it is important, but the way some go on, not saying you here BTW, you'd think that anyone with pace must be a good footballer or that you need pace badly in your team. Pace is no good if you lack everything else. In the general sense, it is overrated. Paul Scholes isn't quick, nor was Beardsley, Teddy Sheringham or Roy Keane. Nor was Shearer. Pace will always play second fiddle to ability and even work-rate, physicality and a strong mentality.

 

There are very few players with pace and everything else, Bellamy is strong and has a high work-rate, pace is a large part of his game of course, but he would still be a good player without it, just as Owen will always score goals, with or without pace.

 

Anyway we are discussing semantics here. I agree with you but it isn't the be all and end all.

 

Agree with most of that.  The players that you mention that lack pace though were all blessed with massive amounts of drive and talent which acts as a big counterbalance to their lack of pace.

[Delima]

All these players are not blessed with blistering pace. I am not saying that they don't have other valuable attributes that make them useful but pace is not everything to a forward.

 

Manchester United - Rooney, Larsson, Smith

Chelsea - Schevchenko

Liverpool - Kuyt, Crouch

Arsenal - Baptista

Bolton Wanderers - Anelka, Davies

Everton -

Reading - Doyle, Lita, Kitson

Tottenham Hotspur - Berabatov

Portsmouth -

Blackburn Rovers - McCarthy, Nonda, Derbyshire

Newcastle United - Sibiersji

Middlesbrough - Viduka

Aston Villa - Carew

Fulham - McBride

Wigan Athletic - Heskey, McCulloch, Faleb

Sheffield United - Hulse

Manchester City -

Charlton Athletic -

Watford -

[Guest Knightrider]

Pace is overrated anyway

 

Nah it's not.  Pace is huge in the Premiership.  Look at us a few years ago with Bellamy and Robert in the team.  Look at the difference having Dyer and Martins up front does for us.  Can you imagine say Shearer and Sibierski?

 

Pace is even more important when you lack a physical presence - like Chopra does.

 

Of course it is important, but the way some go on, not saying you here BTW, you'd think that anyone with pace must be a good footballer or that you need pace badly in your team. Pace is no good if you lack everything else. In the general sense, it is overrated. Paul Scholes isn't quick, nor was Beardsley, Teddy Sheringham or Roy Keane. Nor was Shearer. Pace will always play second fiddle to ability and even work-rate, physicality and a strong mentality.

 

There are very few players with pace and everything else, Bellamy is strong and has a high work-rate, pace is a large part of his game of course, but he would still be a good player without it, just as Owen will always score goals, with or without pace.

 

Anyway we are discussing semantics here. I agree with you but it isn't the be all and end all.

 

Agree with most of that.  The players that you mention that lack pace though were all blessed with massive amounts of drive and talent which acts as a big counterbalance to their lack of pace.

 

Aye, true, which is what pisses me off with the likes of Shola, if he was as mentally strong and had the drive of dare I say a Bellamy, despite his lack of pace, he could do better, much better. I think in the Premiership, physical ability, mental strength, desire and a high work ethic can compensate for a lack of pace and ability, combine all of them though and you have the ultimate Premiership player. Chopra has the quickness for this level, he's not slow put it that way, and has the finishing abilities, but he lacks the general ability and importantly the strength. I'd still like to see him get his chance and hope he'd do well, I wouldn't write him off doing a decent enough job for a player of his standard though as there are countless examples who have.

[Guest Gemmill]

All these players are not blessed with blistering pace. I am not saying that they don't have other valuable attributes that make them useful but pace is not everything to a forward.

 

Manchester United - Rooney, Larsson, Smith

Chelsea - Schevchenko

Liverpool - Kuyt, Crouch

Arsenal - Baptista

Bolton Wanderers - Anelka, Davies

Everton -

Reading - Doyle, Lita, Kitson

Tottenham Hotspur - Berabatov

Portsmouth -

Blackburn Rovers - McCarthy, Nonda, Derbyshire

Newcastle United - Sibiersji

Middlesbrough - Viduka

Aston Villa - Carew

Fulham - McBride

Wigan Athletic - Heskey, McCulloch, Faleb

Sheffield United - Hulse

Manchester City -

Charlton Athletic -

Watford -

 

Yeah, but all of them possess one of the following:  a physical presence/massive talent/technical ability/the list goes on and on.

 

I would dispute that some of the players on that list have no pace btw.

[Guest Knightrider]

All these players are not blessed with blistering pace. I am not saying that they don't have other valuable attributes that make them useful but pace is not everything to a forward.

 

Manchester United - Rooney, Larsson, Smith

Chelsea - Schevchenko

Liverpool - Kuyt, Crouch

Arsenal - Baptista

Bolton Wanderers - Anelka, Davies

Everton -

Reading - Doyle, Lita, Kitson

Tottenham Hotspur - Berabatov

Portsmouth -

Blackburn Rovers - McCarthy, Nonda, Derbyshire

Newcastle United - Sibiersji

Middlesbrough - Viduka

Aston Villa - Carew

Fulham - McBride

Wigan Athletic - Heskey, McCulloch, Faleb

Sheffield United - Hulse

Manchester City -

Charlton Athletic -

Watford -

 

Eh...

 

Rooney, Anelka, Lita, Heskey and McCarthy are all quick. They don't have the pace of Henry but they are quicker than most centre-halves and they also have the power to make them powerful runners.

[Guest Gemmill]

Pace is overrated anyway

 

Nah it's not.  Pace is huge in the Premiership.  Look at us a few years ago with Bellamy and Robert in the team.  Look at the difference having Dyer and Martins up front does for us.  Can you imagine say Shearer and Sibierski?

 

Pace is even more important when you lack a physical presence - like Chopra does.

 

Of course it is important, but the way some go on, not saying you here BTW, you'd think that anyone with pace must be a good footballer or that you need pace badly in your team. Pace is no good if you lack everything else. In the general sense, it is overrated. Paul Scholes isn't quick, nor was Beardsley, Teddy Sheringham or Roy Keane. Nor was Shearer. Pace will always play second fiddle to ability and even work-rate, physicality and a strong mentality.

 

There are very few players with pace and everything else, Bellamy is strong and has a high work-rate, pace is a large part of his game of course, but he would still be a good player without it, just as Owen will always score goals, with or without pace.

 

Anyway we are discussing semantics here. I agree with you but it isn't the be all and end all.

 

Agree with most of that.  The players that you mention that lack pace though were all blessed with massive amounts of drive and talent which acts as a big counterbalance to their lack of pace.

 

Aye, true, which is what pisses me off with the likes of Shola, if he was as mentally strong and had the drive of dare I say a Bellamy, despite his lack of pace, he could do better, much better. I think in the Premiership, physical ability, mental strength, desire and a high work ethic can compensate for a lack of pace and ability, combine all of them though and you have the ultimate Premiership player. Chopra has the quickness for this level, he's not slow put it that way, and has the finishing abilities, but he lacks the general ability and importantly the strength. I'd still like to see him get his chance and hope he'd do well, I wouldn't write him off doing a decent enough job for a player of his standard though as there are countless examples who have.

 

It's not fashionable to say it, but I was actually growing to like Shola before he had to go for his op.  I think he was really trying to step in and be the big man up front for us and replace Shearer, and I respect him for it.  He's plainly not good enough to do that, and I wouldn't want him to be first choice, but I'm happy for him to stay at the club, and think we can rely on him when we need to call on him.

[Cajun]

But Ameobi was often Bellamys replacement, so if Chopra is more like Bellamy why wasnt he the first choice. As said he looked more suited to Shearers style of play (and managers have preferred a big man little man set up) so if Chopra was better than shola and more suited to partner Shearer why did 3 managers go for Shola?

 

All points one way imo, Shola was seen as a better player.

[Guest Knightrider]

Pace is overrated anyway

 

Nah it's not.  Pace is huge in the Premiership.  Look at us a few years ago with Bellamy and Robert in the team.  Look at the difference having Dyer and Martins up front does for us.  Can you imagine say Shearer and Sibierski?

 

Pace is even more important when you lack a physical presence - like Chopra does.

 

Of course it is important, but the way some go on, not saying you here BTW, you'd think that anyone with pace must be a good footballer or that you need pace badly in your team. Pace is no good if you lack everything else. In the general sense, it is overrated. Paul Scholes isn't quick, nor was Beardsley, Teddy Sheringham or Roy Keane. Nor was Shearer. Pace will always play second fiddle to ability and even work-rate, physicality and a strong mentality.

 

There are very few players with pace and everything else, Bellamy is strong and has a high work-rate, pace is a large part of his game of course, but he would still be a good player without it, just as Owen will always score goals, with or without pace.

 

Anyway we are discussing semantics here. I agree with you but it isn't the be all and end all.

 

Agree with most of that.  The players that you mention that lack pace though were all blessed with massive amounts of drive and talent which acts as a big counterbalance to their lack of pace.

 

Aye, true, which is what pisses me off with the likes of Shola, if he was as mentally strong and had the drive of dare I say a Bellamy, despite his lack of pace, he could do better, much better. I think in the Premiership, physical ability, mental strength, desire and a high work ethic can compensate for a lack of pace and ability, combine all of them though and you have the ultimate Premiership player. Chopra has the quickness for this level, he's not slow put it that way, and has the finishing abilities, but he lacks the general ability and importantly the strength. I'd still like to see him get his chance and hope he'd do well, I wouldn't write him off doing a decent enough job for a player of his standard though as there are countless examples who have.

 

It's not fashionable to say it, but I was actually growing to like Shola before he had to go for his op.  I think he was really trying to step in and be the big man up front for us and replace Shearer, and I respect him for it.  He's plainly not good enough to do that, and I wouldn't want him to be first choice, but I'm happy for him to stay at the club, and think we can rely on him when we need to call on him.

 

Agree with all of that, there was a marked improvement in him once Shearer bowed out and Roeder made him his main man, for sure. What has saddened me over the years regarding some of the stick he's had, is that he's no bad apple, tries his hardest and you imagine, is a canny bloke, furthermore playing on with his bad hip takes guts and not many would put their career at risk, something which I think gets glossed over by a lot of his critics.

[Cajun]

Exactly, the lad wants to play and if he is physically possible to he will. Something that often gets ignored because "he is shit" and "he earns loads of money".

 

I understand other players getting stick because often they don't seem to give a shit but one thing that can't be said about Shola is he takes the easy way out when possible.