Chopra: England selections "do my head in"

[Delima]

Daft criteria to apply then for judging a player. One look at Chopra tells you he's nowhere near the standard required whereas Nugent is one for the future who might be. Hence there is some value to giving Nugent the experience with the squad and none with calling up someone like Chopra imo.

 

So you are saying that Nugent should get picked ahead of Chopra not because that he is better than Chopra, but because he is potentially better than Chopra?

[Delima]

Shevchenko hasn't outscored Doyle, McCarthy, Martins, etc. (not average I know). Doesn't mean he's still by far the better player.

 

Shevchenko has a history of excellence, whereas Nugent does not. Also, would you have the low key Shevchenko during the initial season (not the current on form Shevchenko) ahead of on form Doyle, McCarthy and Martins?

[Cajun]

Shevchenko hasn't outscored Doyle, McCarthy, Martins, etc. (not average I know). Doesn't mean he's still by far the better player.

 

Shevchenko has a history of excellence, whereas Nugent does not. Also, would you have the low key Shevchenko during the initial season (not the current on form Shevchenko) ahead of on form Doyle, McCarthy and Martins?

 

Could be argued Nugent has a better history than Chopra despite being younger.

[Guest Gemmill]

Daft criteria to apply then for judging a player. One look at Chopra tells you he's nowhere near the standard required whereas Nugent is one for the future who might be. Hence there is some value to giving Nugent the experience with the squad and none with calling up someone like Chopra imo.

 

So you are saying that Nugent should get picked ahead of Chopra not because that he is better than Chopra, but because he is potentially better than Chopra?

 

  Jesus Christ.  Look, Chopra should NEVER EVER get picked for England, so by definition that puts Nugent ahead of him in the pecking order.

[Delima]

Would love to see the list of strikers who have outscored (so are obviously better) Bellamy since he has been in the Premiership.

 

Sarcasm does not work for your online best pal. No one has said that goals scored is the only yardstick for the merit of a striker.

 

Just for the sake of arguement.

 

BBC

 

I would have Drogba, Ronaldo, McCarthy, Rooney, Yakubu, Johnson, Lampard, Van Persie, Doyle, Henry, Kanu, Martins, Anelka, Bent and Kuyt ahead of Bellamy.

 

Do you disagree?

 

PS I might have Bellamy ahead of Kanu.

[Delima]

  Jesus Christ.  Look, Chopra should NEVER EVER get picked for England, so by definition that puts Nugent ahead of him in the pecking order.

 

If you say so ... 

[Guest alex]

Daft criteria to apply then for judging a player. One look at Chopra tells you he's nowhere near the standard required whereas Nugent is one for the future who might be. Hence there is some value to giving Nugent the experience with the squad and none with calling up someone like Chopra imo.

 

So you are saying that Nugent should get picked ahead of Chopra not because that he is better than Chopra, but because he is potentially better than Chopra?

No. I'm saying the fact Chopra has scored more this season is largely irrelevent as Chopra will never be good enough. Btw, Nugent is already the better player imo.

[Delima]

Could be argued Nugent has a better history than Chopra despite being younger.

 

How so? Genuine question.

[Cajun]

Would love to see the list of strikers who have outscored (so are obviously better) Bellamy since he has been in the Premiership.

 

Sarcasm does not work for your online best pal. No one has said that goals scored is the only yardstick for the merit of a striker.

 

Just for the sake of arguement.

 

BBC

 

I would have Drogba, Ronaldo, McCarthy, Rooney, Yakubu, Johnson, Lampard, Van Persie, Doyle, Henry, Kanu, Martins, Anelka, Bent and Kuyt ahead of Bellamy.

 

Do you disagree?

 

PS I might have Bellamy ahead of Kanu.

 

You MIGHT have Bellamy ahead of Kanu, I hope that was sarcasm. I would rather have Bellamy than Johnson, Doyle, Kanu, Kuyt or Bent.

[Cajun]

Could be argued Nugent has a better history than Chopra despite being younger.

 

How so? Genuine question.

 

Because he has a history of being a young quality player at a respectable level rather than a reserve player who never really pushed his way into the first team and was behind Shola in the pecking order.

[Guest alex]

Anyway Delima, what's your argument here? Are you saying you think Chopra may, at some point (or now) be good enough for England? If not, what's your point?

[Delima]

1. Chopra will never be good enough.

2. Nugent is already the better player imo.

 

1. If this is your selection criteria than we have to agree to disagree. On this basis I suppose you won't have Bent, Crouch and Defoe in the national team too?

 

2. How so? Are you comparing 2006/2007 Preston's Nugent with Newcastle's Chopra, or Cardiff's Chopra?

[Delima]

Anyway Delima, what's your argument here? Are you saying you think Chopra may, at some point (or now) be good enough for England? If not, what's your point?

 

My arguement as I have always said is that:

 

1. Chopra is a better player than Nugent, currently.

2. This is nicely proven and backed up by his goal scoring and assist stats.

3. His general play is not crap so the stats is not lying.

 

3. Personally I think Chopra has the potential to be good enough for England. But this is irrelevant to why currently imo Chopra should be ahead of Nugent in the pecking order.

[Guest alex]

1. Chopra will never be good enough.

2. Nugent is already the better player imo.

 

1. If this is your selection criteria than we have to agree to disagree. On this basis I suppose you won't have Bent, Crouch and Defoe in the national team too?

 

2. How so? Are you comparing 2006/2007 Preston's Nugent with Newcastle's Chopra, or Cardiff's Chopra?

 

I'm basing my opinion on when I've seen them, in previous seasons and this. Nugent looks the all round better player to me.

[Guest alex]

Anyway Delima, what's your argument here? Are you saying you think Chopra may, at some point (or now) be good enough for England? If not, what's your point?

 

My arguement as I have always said is that:

 

1. Chopra is a better player than Nugent, currently.

2. This is nicely proven and backed up by his goal scoring and assist stats.

3. His general play is not crap so the stats is not lying.

 

3. Personally I think Chopra has the potential to be good enough for England. But this is irrelevant to why currently imo Chopra should be ahead of Nugent in the pecking order.

Ability to count on a par with your ability to answer a question then.

[Delima]

You MIGHT have Bellamy ahead of Kanu, I hope that was sarcasm. I would rather have Bellamy than Johnson, Doyle, Kanu, Kuyt or Bent.

 

Ok, I'll have Bellamy over Kanu. But I won't have Bellamy over Johnson, Doyle, Kuyt and Bent. I think you are seriously overestimating Bellamy and seriously underestimating Johnson, Kuyt and Bent.

 

On another note, I don't know if you subscribe to the "potentially class" theory but Bellamy will be 28 this year, whereas Johnson, Kuyt and Bent are only 26, 27 and 23 respectively.

[Delima]

Ability to count on a par with your ability to answer a question then.

 

There is no need for a sly dig over my typing mistake.

 

If you insist that Nugent is CURRENTLY a better all round player then so be it. Obviously we have to disagree here.

[Cajun]

What does Kuyt offer that Bellamy doesn't? Bent is pretty much all about goals as is Johnson from what I have seen of him. Bellamy has a lot of ability, great all round play but isn't really a prolific striker, in general though I would say he offers a hell of a lot more to the team. In regards to the age thing, I thought we were talking about ability now given that Nugent is about 2-3 years younger than Chopra?

[Delima]

Because he has a history of being a young quality player at a respectable level rather than a reserve player who never really pushed his way into the first team and was behind Shola in the pecking order.

 

Define respectable? Chopra has a better history of being a young quality player at both premiership reserve level and Championship first team. On international level Chopra scored a goal in his one and only international under 21.

[Guest alex]

Ability to count on a par with your ability to answer a question then.

 

There is no need for a sly dig over my typing mistake.

 

If you insist that Nugent is CURRENTLY a better all round player then so be it. Obviously we have to disagree here.

That was a joke btw. I couldn't be arsed to write a serious answer after you said you thought Chops had the potential to be an England player. Nowhere near imo.

[Cajun]

Nugent has been doing it on a regular basis in the Championship where as Chopra looked very much out of his depth in the premiership, has had a couple of loans spells where he did well and thats about it in his 5 or so years.

[Delima]

What does Kuyt offer that Bellamy doesn't?

 

Intelligence. Movement. Decision making.

 

Bent is pretty much all about goals

 

A striker's job is to score goals. And his goal amount is significantly more than Bellamy that I would rather have Bent than Bellamy. Bent isn't all about scoring too. His is strong, his hold up play is good, his killing instinct is good, he also has speed.

 

as is Johnson from what I have seen of him.

 

Again I think you are severely underestimating Johnson. Johnson's workrate is excellent. His poaching ability is excellent. He is strong despite tiny. He is rapid. He is not selfish. His movement is very good, and he is able to earn a lot of penalties, not by diving.

 

Bellamy has a lot of ability, great all round play but isn't really a prolific striker, in general though I would say he offers a hell of a lot more to the team.

 

Really, what does Bellamy offer to the team apart from pacey running at defender? I don't deny that Bellamy can supply some good assists too (eg Barca game) but overall he is not an all round forward, at all. At 6 millions he is value for money, Newcastle United do miss him. But still Bellamy is not as good an all round player as Johnson and Bent. As for Doyle I would like to see him more but purely based on this season, Doyle pre-injury, I would ahve Doyle over Bellamy too.

 

In regards to the age thing, I thought we were talking about ability now given that Nugent is about 2-3 years younger than Chopra?

 

It was just a side note. It would have applied if you were to suscribe to the age thing but if you don't than the comment is not valid.

 

[Delima]

That was a joke btw. I couldn't be arsed to write a serious answer after you said you thought Chops had the potential to be an England player. Nowhere near imo.

 

Fair enough.

[Delima]

Nugent has been doing it on a regular basis in the Championship where as Chopra looked very much out of his depth in the premiership, has had a couple of loans spells where he did well and thats about it in his 5 or so years.

 

How so? Genuine question. Can you list the histories down as I am not aware of Nugent impressive history in the Championship?

[Cajun]

So Bellamy doesnt offer movement and intelligence? I think you are somehow understimating Bellamy despite him having played here a few years. Do you think the improvement in the team when he and Robert signed was due to Bellamy running at defenders fast?