Arsenal to appoint Director of Football.

[Guest Knightrider]

Oh and cheers Isegrim for the info. What are German managers BTW, a coach, trainer, manager, what? And do they run their clubs like our managers run our clubs, i.e. have the same kind of control of things?

[johnnypd]

it was Gordon Milne who was our DoF, as i said a few posts up. pretty successful period for us, but we got rid of Milne, as well as chief scout Charlie Woods, when we sacked Robson. so we basically lost all of the footballing expertise and setup at the club in one fell swoop, leaving us bereft of the knowledge and contacts needed in our search for a new manager.

[Guest Knightrider]

it was Gordon Milne who was our DoF, as i said a few posts up. pretty successful period for us, but we got rid of Milne, as well as chief scout Charlie Woods, when we sacked Robson. so we basically lost all of the footballing expertise and setup at the club in one fell swoop, leaving us bereft of the knowledge and contacts needed in our search for a new manager.

 

That's what I worry about. If we do appoint a DOF, and sack the manager, the DOF may have to leave to, some managers may say "I don't work with DOF". For all we know, Souness might have said that.

[johnnypd]

i think most british managers would rather do without a DOF as they want to run everything themselves in the traditional manner. even the most forward-looking, like allardyce, want to monopolise control as much as possible. continental managers have a different approach,  Robson did after spending years abroad and seeing the benefits of such a role, even assuming a similar position for Barca before he came here. you could say that having a DOF would dissuade british managers from coming here, but Shepherd is operating as a DOF at the moment, and this has already dissuaded the likes of Allardyce. so if the choice is between an expert assuming the role or continuing with shepherd then i'd go for the specialist.

 

The problem for us has been Shepherd's meddling in areas he has no expertise in, and trying to exert as much control as possible over the club. Robson, from the sounds of things, had tried to modernise the club behind the scenes but was blocked by shepherd. in dismissing most the backroom staff along with Robson he ensured there'd be no continuity from a relatively successful period, we had to start all over again rather than build on foundations. having an independent DOF in place would curtail shepherd's influence over footballing matters and bring in some long term expert planning at a football level, rather than the short-term, back to square one tactics we've seen from Shepherd.

[Isegrim]

it was Gordon Milne who was our DoF, as i said a few posts up. pretty successful period for us, but we got rid of Milne, as well as chief scout Charlie Woods, when we sacked Robson. so we basically lost all of the footballing expertise and setup at the club in one fell swoop, leaving us bereft of the knowledge and contacts needed in our search for a new manager.

 

That's what I worry about. If we do appoint a DOF, and sack the manager, the DOF may have to leave to, some managers may say "I don't work with DOF". For all we know, Souness might have said that.

 

Rather an argument for a DoF, isn't it...

[Martin Lol]

I think HTT harps too much on the title . Wenger's stance on the need to appoint a director of football now that Dein has left just demonstrates that there isn't a great difference between a chief executive or a DoF or whatever you want to call the person. It's not so much the the job title that matters, but the job description. And in that regard all top teams have a "director of football" (or whatever you want to call him). Newcastle don't have one since Feddie Fletcher went and half of the board jobs are split between Freddie Shepherd himself and Mr. Vacant (http://nufc.com/2006-07html/geninfo.html)

 

I have noticed that myself, I am aware all clubs, even we do, have in one form or another, a DOF. FS is our DOF (and Chairman, fat greedy b****** etc.) I did say further above that Arsenal won't be appointing a DOF as such, which I aknowledged was a fany title more than anything. But the one that Baggio seems to base his views on or advocates is the European DOF which is what Spurs have, no? I.e. someone who is directing the football, someone who will not have any say on the financial side of things, like who to give contracts to, what wages to pay, how much to spend in the transfer window etc. Just someone who looks after scouting, coaching and other football aspects below the actual manager and his staff.

 

Only Spurs and Chelsea here in the UK have a true DOF in that case, then.

 

Chelsea don't have such a position at the present time, Arnesen is responsible only for recruiting youngsters to the Academy.  His official title is Chief Scout and Director of Youth Development.  At the present time, any players required to be added to the first team squad are identified and recruited by Mourinho and his staff.  That will probably change in the summer when Abraham Grant, Portsmouth's Technical Director (and personal friend of Abramovich) is expected to join as Sporting Director over Mourinho and Arnesen.  Spurs are the only ones at the time with a true DoF (although Comolli's title is actually Sporting Director).

[Delima]

Why would Houllier prefer to be a director of football than a manager of a league winning side?

[Martin Lol]

They have improved in every aspect, but where it matters - on the pitch - they are not a million miles away from us, despite their DOF. Of course, time will always tell so who knows what the future holds for Spurs.

 

I agree, on the pitch they are hardly a million miles away from us but it just isn't about that is it? Having a great youth set up is only the start, if you think of all the money this club has blown on players in the past because there has been little or no scouting done on that individual, now think how much better we would have saved if we had a scouting system that could track players over a length of time rather than going for big name players all the time.

 

I knew you'd choose what you did, but can you point to a successful club that has all 3, that has been a tried and tested example here in the UK?

 

There isn't a club that has all three.

 

Without wanting to give NE5 an orgasm/heart attack, I don't think Shepherd is that bad, he just hasn't got a clue about modern football and how a club should be ran in 2007, the bloke clearly has ambition and the clubs best interest at heart yet he often fucks up with managerial appointments and sticking his nose where it's not needed, I'd be happy if Shepherd took a step back from the football side of things and employed a DOF/Technical director to take care of all that, leaving him to do run the financial side of things, like it was in the early days under this board with Fletcher on board.

 

BTW, just playing devils advocate here a bit  as I'm not convinced at all, but there is without doubt in the logic behind such a role within a football club, I'm just not so sure it will lead to success, not over tried and tested methods anyway and I know for a fact it would never work here not with FS as chairman.

 

It may or may not work with Shepherd but it's something that needs to be looked at, the fact that Sir John Hall has said it's being talked about at board level is encouraging.

 

 

Fair enough Baggio, I actually wouldn't be adverse to one here at NUFC given our state and would be quite interested to see what kind of an impact such a figure could have. I guess I'm just a bit of an old  traditionalist in a way and fearful that a DOF (as I understand one to be) would over egg things or get in the way of things. Everytime I hear managers talk about DOFs they all seem fearful of one and many stories involving DOFs seem to be negative ones. "He's after my job", "He's trying to undermine me", "manager and DOF don't see eye to eye".

 

But what the heck, why not.

 

While we are here, I advocate the following:

 

Private Owners - people like the people who own Arsenal and Liverpool or did and like the Glazers who own the club, but don't run it.

 

CEO - A Gill, Dien, Kenyon figure who oversee the entire club operation outside of the football end.

 

DOF - Not for finances though, just football, someone who has to be picked by the manager. What I would fear then though, is if the manager leaves, so does the DOF and if not, the new man doesn't get on with the DOF. The other way bothers me too. Club hire DOF to work with manager, manager OK with that, but doesnt get on with DOF and the twos ideas aren't the same.

 

Under him - Youth Academy Director - doesn't need explained. Again, the manager must pick this person. This person must also be able to work with DOF.

 

Technical Adminstrator - Someone who deals with the medical, technology and science side of football. To setup and run in house medical, technology and science centres to aid the club like what Real Madrid have and we were interested in under KK/SJH.

 

Manager - a good one this time.

 

That would be us modernised

 

 

 

The concept with a DoF/Sporting Director is that a club does't have a manager in the English sense, it has a Head Coach responsible for all the activities of the first team squad.  The DoF has to be responsible for how money is utilised, but not setting out how much is available.  At Spurs, Comolli is told by Levy how much is available in 2 transfer pots, 1 for first team squad and reserves, the other for youth development, Academy etc.  If a prospective first team player costs over a specified figure, he has to clear it with Levy.  Similarly, he has to clear the wages aspect with Levy if it goes above a specified figure.  All negotiations are done by Comolli unless Levy wants to dabble in them as well.

 

One of the most important jobs for Comolli is to maintain continuity within the club.  If Jol dies/resigns/sacked etc, it is Comolli's job to get the right replacement coach in (although Levy would be involved almost every step of the way) and in that respect, it is critical that he also recruits the Academy Director and Academy Coach as well.  When Alex Inglethorpe was recruited as Academy Coach, it wasn't a case of a first and second interview, it was an interview which effectively went on for 2 days.  At the end of it, Comolli knew Inglethorpe's strategy, coaching techniques etc inside out and he was considered the most appropriate.  The Academy Director, John McDermott recruited from the FA, was recruited by Arnesen. 

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

Jol, if success wasn't coming on the pitch, whose fault is that? The manager or the DOF or both? Or is it not as simple as that?

[Martin Lol]

Jol, if success wasn't coming on the pitch, whose fault is that? The manager or the DOF or both? Or is it not as simple as that?

 

The coach.  The DoF provides the workforce the coach wants, the coach makes them work.  If they don't work well, the DoF gets in a new coach.

 

That would be the simplistic answer but questions would obviously be asked if the coach failed time and time again cos the DoF wouldn't then be recruiting the right coaches.  When you look at the succession of managers that Spurs had from Gross through to Hoddle, you could argue that very few were up to it, and they were all appointed by the Chairman.  Arnesen came in but Santini was still appointed by Levy.  Jol, Arnesen's choice, took over and is still there nearly 3 years later.  Comolli likes working with Jol, says straight who he would like, Comolli gives straight answers if that player can't be had.

 

It's a case of building a working relationship really, nothing more.

[Martin Lol]

Why would Houllier prefer to be a director of football than a manager of a league winning side?

 

It could be perceived to be less stressful, a coach/manager is judged on results.  A DoF just has to keep the club running well, not the results.  Houllier could also draw on his vast wealth of contacts all over the world.  Arnesen and Comolli always seem(ed) to be on a plane, Houllier could travel less if he wanted to and still do the job to a satisfactory standard.  Pleat by contrast once opted not to go to the Euro u18 championships, preferring to go and check out Ben Strevens at Barnet instead!