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  1. I had intended that to be my last post but I cannot let that slide. All those quotes are direct responses where I was giving as good as I got. Effectively on your last point about people being pissed off, i dont recall throwing a hissy fit for being called a Tory. Anyway enough from me. This really is the last post. It’s just not worth it.
  2. Example? Think I may have referred to you as a Corbynista once in response to being told I 'effectively vote Tory'. I admitted that was deliberately antagonistic I suppose. Not sure it warrants abuse mind. If sweeping judgement against those of what I consider a far left position is any different to those on here, myself included who make sweeping judgement about Tories is any different is slightly hypocritical. Its hard not to group individuals in that respect. Either way I'm done. Will leave you all to it.
  3. The first paragraph is fair enough, the second just churlish. For a start I'm not the one who has been abusive, I've put forward a point of view that this complex situation between Israel and Palestine is hi-jacked by those on the real hard left that Corbyn has cosied up to in the past. Corbyn unfortunately because of his past relationships with these groups does not make him the best person to be able to crack down on it. Especially when, as shown yesterday, it looks like those close to the leader have had an input in dealing with those members who have allegedly made antisemitic comments.
  4. I'm failing to see any criticism of Hamas either which is my point. Its simply ranting about the ills of Israel. I'm not sure where this argument gets us other than it adds weight to my theory that the lefts obsession with this conflict allows extreme elements to perpetuate antisemitic nonsense. Most countries in the world want a two state solution but ranting about the atrocities it has committed whilst ignoring undoubted Palestianian killings against Israelis either from suicide bombings or rocket launches into areas where Israelis are (even if those areas are 'occupied'). I mean if you
  5. What do you want like? A list of conflicts that go back decades? Because they do exist. Whether it be civil wars in Africa or continuing conflicts like Turkey and the Kurds? Do I have to find something that is exactly the same because I'm not sure what it will prove but what I find indisputable is the lefts obsession with the Israeli Palistian conflict. You, in my mind anyway, confirm the problem with this conflict in that those of a position that is beyond left of centre see Israel as the only agressor. There is literally no balance other than Israel is evil. I mean literally Hamas used t
  6. No, by normal I mean less politically engaged. They will just see the nutters on Labours fringe bringing the party into disrepute.
  7. Agree with this completely. I don't think Corbyn is racist, I just think he is thick as ****. And for all the reasons you state. The rise in anti-semitism in Labour recently is a side show but it has happened on his watch because those close to him have a weird obsession with Israel and have this one sided view that everything in that part of the world is their fault and backed by the US and other capitalist powers which the fringes of the far left despise. The issue of Israel/Palestine does not fit into a nice neat good guy vs bad guy argument so I can only conceptualise that certain
  8. I think the bit about Milne's views is the key point. It is a worry that Corbyn surrounds himself by Milne and likes of Andrew Murray. My point though is that they are as much likely (if not more) to work with Corbyn that PM Boris imho
  9. Have they absolutely ruled out working with Labour? In the event of an election where Labour get more votes than the Tories but not a majority I cannot imagine they would coalition up with the Tories. I would imagine they would supply and confidence with the biggest party to ensure their policies are put front and centre.
  10. Not a lot to go on? How much do you want like? His politics is more central, he has more conviction and more experience. Seriously, what else do you want? You must be furious that McDonnell and Watson are opening up channels to centrist Labour MPs then. Seeing as the membership has rejected them out right. But the premise that it is so fantastic that Labour's vote share was up by more than any since Attlee really doesn't tell the whole story does it? Which is my point. Labours vote share went from 30.4% to 40% (so 9.6% increase). The Tories themselves 36.8% in 2015 to 42.4%, a
  11. Fair point and I am being antagonistic but equally the insinuation that you are Tory if you are not fully on board with the socialist utopian vision is equally as irritating. The Tories under Cameron positioned themselves in the centre and came to power which has enabled them to put policies in place that lean right. Similarly how Labour under Blair positioned themselves in the centre to become electable with left leaning policies such as minimum wage, SureStart and other legislation. The 'rise of the right' is I would argue more recent thing with the pandering to UKIP and the refer
  12. It was more the events that followed is where our paths divulge, how Corbyn came to be elected is fairly obvious. I'm just making the point that the membership is not the electorate. I mean its not that difficult really. Ed was always seen as more of a lefty, or perhaps was portrayed as such before the 2015 election as he then tried to overly appeal to the centre ground but lacked conviction. I think David is a far better option, the fact he had held higher posts in government that his brother is probably indicative of that and he would have done far better against Cameron. Aga
  13. I mean they are different but they are never going to be exactly the same. The Tony Benn challenge was never in a position to have any effective resignations and even those on the left of the party started distancing themselves from it because it was so poor. Interestingly, Benn once defeated in the 88 challenge stated "I do not want anyone to think that tomorrow is the end. It is the beginning." Benn had threatened that the challenge would be on a yearly basis and would not go away. Ultimately it did but the idea that the challenge back then to the Labour leadership was somehow more chivalrou
  14. Corbyn was involved in Tony Benn's leadership challenge, surely that isn't in dispute? And on the timing, you have contradicted yourself. The last quote from September 1992 Corbyn openly criticises John Smith as offering no real opposition with the possibility of a leader challenge. Of course John Smith had only become leader 2 months earlier.
  15. Jeremy Corbyn as quoted in the Guardian 14th Jan 1988 "The Campaign Group of Labour MPs is considering putting up a candidate against Mr Neil Kinnock for the party leadership. It is taking sounding among constituency parties and trade unions and will announce its findings next month". Jon Lansman who helped Corbyn come to power via Momentum quoted in the Guardian on 4th April 1988 "By having an election we will force a debate about the direction of the party in which it will be much more difficult for Kinnock to make everything an issue of loyalty to him. By the end of the campaign we will
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