sicsfingeredmong

Incoming & acceptable offers from interested/impressed suitors come Summer.

It's a prospect i'm not looking forward to with 'sales merchant' Ashley around.

I respect people's optimism and of course there's still time, but I'm thick enough to watch around five premier league games every weekend and it's a motherfuckin fact that we play the worst football out of all clubs - and I'm including Stoke 'long throw' City in that.

 

We've had two decent games this season - Man Utd away and Villa home. That's it - two games out of twenty four. Add Kinnear's inadequacy, the lost points against relegation rivals, the injuries and the lack of reinforcements to that and you can see why it's extremely hard for me to be optimistic.

 

I don't doubt that there are worse squads out there, it's just that they compensate the lack of quality with passion and commitment on the field. At the same time we're having the patience of watching wasters like Damien Duff and Nicky Butt single-handedly costing us points every week, because they don't care about nothing else than the fat pay checks we're paying them. And I'm sure the worst is yet to come, because undoubtedly it would take ages for Kinnear to find out that Smith is useless, if he ever realizes it.

 

I just pray that Oba comes back healthy and is strong enough to carry us on his own like he did in the Roeder season. That's our only hope.

Agree with that.

Power in a shot comes from speed and accuracy in the movement of the leg when taking the shot. Jonas certainly has the first quality.

 

It's also Owen's major flaw. Since the knee injury he's lost speed in his leg when going for the shot, equalling in weak shots almost all of the time.

 

That's my understanding of shooting and power anyway as it was explained to me by coaches when I played more.

 

Power (and shooting in general) is all about technique and not speed or strength, see goal-kicks for a prime example of using technique to strike the ball hard. It has nothing to do with strength or speed. Balance/body posture is also a major factor, although body posture comes under technique.

Agree with much of that.

As well as being one of the elite 'pure' finishers of his generation in Serie-A former Lazio striker - Signori i think - used to hit a powerful penalty and many of them were aimed at either top corner. He was also a dangerous taker of set-pieces. All was accomplished from a one-two step take-off prior to shooting, and the same player was never blessed with Owen's pre-injury/ies athletic attributes.

As you say, a blend of technique - ie. ball striking - and balance.

How we could do with someone who has the ability of Robert now, some of his goals were ridiculously good. The reverse bicycle kick v Fulham. The free kicks v Derby and Liverpool and that rocket he scored at Goodison park from a Woodgate pass. On his day he really was an awesome player to have, he had the ability to create some thing out of nothing, which we now lack. Only Martins can sporadically do this.

Somebody who could check back inside, with an accompanying shot to worry the keeper, is a missing ingredient right now. Guiterrez hasn't won me over as an attacking wide player thanks to his finished product - or lack of.

Those who bashed Robert for not having physical presence from a defensive standpoint rarely mentioned or simply overlooked his positional play in the final 1/3. We need that right now. I'd take that attacking element - Robert - over Guiterrez's more forceful defensive shift.

Goal returns from the midfield line is what seperates the top 4/6 from the also rans, and in our case with an injury depleted and largely unproductive strikeforce  it could be well be a major deciding factor between us staying up and going down this season.

Imagine Gutierrez in a team like Liverpool or Chelsea. He would be amazing, this guy is amazing for the Argentine nationalt eam, hes trying to much because our whole freaking squad is just s***. Wouldn't surprise me if he's out back to La Liga or some other top clubs in June. Bassong too.

 

he's a PL player, he's said so himself. that said can see teams in europe going for him in the summer. not sure if they will get him, but i can see them trying.

 

I remember when he was playing for Keegan.

 

Attacking movement was exceptional throughout the team, which allowed Jonas to get involved in some really good passing moves, and he could run the full length of the pitch.

 

This doesn't happen anymore, because Kinnear spends four days out of five coacching defending.

 

Hence we are completely impotent.

 

Kinnear Out!

 

you know kinnear does that james? are you at the training ground 5 days a week?

 

we're completely impotent because we have martins and owen out injured. attacking movement wasn't bad vs the mackems, we just couldn't get shola or andy to move their lanky arses into any sort of space.

 

i'm not defending kinnear here btw, he's the worst manager i've ever seen both in a tactical sense and in a "what a c***" sense.

 

Kinnear has said that's what he does.

Yes, he did.

I agree with the above predictions ie. Merson and Lawro.

Particularly the 1-1 scoreline.

Right now we have to put aside the bickering, forget the sh*t season we're having and stop doing our dirty washing in public.

Our depleted team has never needed support more than they do right now and on Sunday we really need to be the 12th man for them instead of a 12th man for the opposition.

We need to show the mackems what REAL support is all about and make St.James Park the nosiest and most intimidating place they will ever visit, just like last season when they completely bottled it as they walked out to 50,000 people singing the Blaydon Races.

Times are hard, people are upset and angry and the jinx on our club has never been more evident, but for the next few days and particularly on Sunday afternoon lets put the animosity aside give ALL players in black and white shirts 100% support and send those scumbags back to Wearside wondering what hit them.

 

nice sentiments, but they are an echo of the rubbish the mackems have themselves churned out over the years, as a pretty desperate bunch.

 

It goes without saying that we want to beat our rivals, and there will be no middle ground on sunday, but we need more than a win against the mackems to stay up and sort this club out.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more, but please don't compare my sentiments to the inferiority complex that typifies the mackems usual rallying cries. I just want us to take a truce from the bitching until the real battle is over.

Sunday is just one battle, one chapter of the overall war/the club's current predicament........... the relegation fight currently facing us.

Provided the gutless b****** - Ashley - attends on Sunday, as some sort of ceremonial return so that can bask in the glory of a hopeful derby win. To be part of the whole Geordie Thing again. His actions, or lack of, should not be forgotten amidst the heat of derby day, and this Sunday is just one battle in the overall war. He should not be let off the leash so to speak. Abuse etc that's ok by me - ie. at full time for example - imo he's fair game as Shepherd was to those who had it in for him.

Personally i fully support and back anyone who clocks him one, inside or outside the ground.

Freddy Shepherd's message to Toon owner Ashley

 

Jan 25 2009 by Neil Farrington, Sunday Sun

 

FORMER Newcastle chairman Freddy Shepherd last night called for current owner Mike Ashley to take responsibility for the club’s dire predicament . . .

 

By returning to St James’s Park and taking a hands-on role in United’s fight for Premier League survival.

 

And Shepherd blasted Magpies manager Joe Kinnear for blaming “everyone but himself” for his side’s problems.

 

In a wide-ranging and often damning evaluation of Ashley’s running of Newcastle, Shepherd also:

 

:: URGED Ashley to replace managing director Derek Llambias with someone experienced in running a Premier League club.

 

:: INSISTED Ashley deserves no sympathy amid United’s deepening crisis, maintaining he “got the club on the cheap”.

 

:: DESCRIBED the possible repercussions of relegation as “unthinkable”.

 

:: DEFENDED his own overall legacy at St James’s Park.

 

With Newcastle in apparent freefall towards the relegation zone, struggling to strengthen their threadbare squad this month and at risk of losing stars like Shay Given and Michael Owen, their prospects look bleak.

 

But although Ashley has said United are no longer for sale, he has not been seen on Tyneside for the near five months since Kevin Keegan quit St James’s in September.

 

That has to change, according to Shepherd — as does Ashley’s choice of man to run the club in his absence.

 

“It’s clear that many fans are fearful over what they see as the lack of leadership at the club,” Shepherd declared.

 

“The owner has to restore confidence by showing himself in public at St. James’s Park and taking a hands-on role.

 

“He’s had a lot of flak from disgruntled fans, but they have a right to call it as they see it.

 

“I got plenty of stick during my time in charge, but not even my sternest critics can accuse me of hiding. I was always there in the firing line.

 

“You’ve got to be brave enough to step up to the plate. Mike Ashley must show leadership in the tricky months that lie ahead.”

 

And a good leader should delegate responsibility to the right people, according to Shepherd.

 

“The single most important thing he (Ashley) must do is to immediately recruit someone to run the club who has a background in top football administration.

 

“The club is crying out for a chairman or a chief executive who has experience of running a big football club.

 

“That’s not a job application because I’ve had my time. But Ashley must find someone who knows how to run a football club.”

 

Amid the crisis, United’s latest published accounts have prompted sympathy in some quarters for Ashley, who has loaned the club £100 million — and is understood to have taken out a new mortgage-style bank borrowing — to keep it afloat.

 

Shepherd sees things differently.

 

“No one should feel sorry for Mike Ashley,” he said. “He got the club on the cheap.

 

“He got a fantastic deal when Sir John Hall sold out and set the price at £134 million.

 

“The value of the property and the playing assets that he got was at least three times what he paid for the club.

 

“He got a state-of-the-art 52,000-seater stadium — which you couldn’t build today for less than £400 million — as well as a brand new training complex, an Academy and a squad of players that was bursting with internationals.”

 

And Shepherd is insistent that a basic lack of planning has cost Ashley dear — as have several key mistakes.

 

“There is no use him (Ashley) bleating about the debt he inherited,” said Shepherd. “Had he bothered to check he would have known that there was a £57 million securitisation settlement required when Sir John Hall sold.

 

“And when he sells the club, there is an agreement that the money he has loaned the club will all be paid back to him.

 

“I have never to this day understood why he didn’t undertake due diligence.

 

“The simple truth is that Mr Ashley didn’t do his homework before buying.”

 

Shepherd added: “They (Newcastle) have been unlucky in some respects — it isn’t all down to bad management — but mistakes have clearly been made.

 

“Some of the losses on the latest accounts are the result of decisions taken by the owner.

 

“He decided to sack Sam Allardyce as manager after just 24 games, and that cost £4.6 million.

 

“And the events that led to Kevin Keegan’s departure could also have serious financial consequences for the next accounts.”

 

Kinnear‘s suggestion that Allardyce and Keegan are to blame for Newcastle’s on-field problems also got short shrift from Shepherd.

 

“I thought it was extremely unfair to blame the two previous managers for the lack of depth in the present squad,” he rapped.

 

“I know those two guys well and they, like all my other managers, would have always been fighting to squeeze as much money for signings as they could.

 

“Kinnear has blamed Keegan, blamed Allardyce, moaned that the squad isn’t good enough and complained that the fans don’t understand.

 

“It seems that Joe Kinnear blames everyone but himself.”

 

On a similar theme, Shepherd admitted: “I know I made mistakes during my time, but I am still proud of my legacy.

 

“During my time, we went from a struggling team in the Championship playing in a ramshackle ground to a club that almost won the Premier League and ended up in one of the best stadia in the country.

 

“We signed world-class stars, attracted top managers, played 120 matches in Europe, got to two FA Cup Finals and had four Wembley appearances.

 

“The proof that we were doing something very right was in the house-full signs that we had up for nearly 15 years.

 

“If Mike Ashley could achieve that sort of transformation he would have done remarkably well.”

 

And Shepherd insisted: “It saddens me like any supporter to see the plight the club is in.

 

“Like every Newcastle fan I am praying that they can survive this season because the repercussions of relegation are unthinkable.”

I was never one who particularly wanted rid of Freddy, and I'm also one of those who don't believe that everything we currently see is down to Ashley.

 

Fred was on a downward slope, that much should be pretty much indisputable, but had he been able to generate a new partner to replace the Halls and inject some cash then he may have recovered - this we will never know.

 

I don't like the Chelsea and Man City approach to team building, and have always supported Ashleys apparent aim of buying talented young players and building from within. I had however envisaged that all of these youth players would be mixed with some experience.

 

If the bids for Modric and/or Aimar were genuine then it would support this view - and the signing of Colo suggests that money would be spent on the RIGHT individuals.

 

Where it has gone wrong was Ashley listening to the fans and bringing back Keegan, there was no way on Earth that Keegan could coexist with Wise et al (who I believe have done nothing wrong) once Mort left as Lambarse is one of Ashleys new boys leaving Keegan out on a limb. If we had been a bit creative we could have appointed a better long term manager than Keegan last Jan and we wouldn't be in this mess (note whilst I can't understand the timing of KK walking out I also dont put all of the blame on him).

 

Should we survive this season then the situation could be repaired, Lambarse has to go and ideally JFK will be thanked for having a go and he can get another role in Div 1 or something. We then need either a young manager such as Martinez to work within the structure or someone like Bruce to be given free reign.

 

One thing I cant forgive the current management team for is the lack of communication, this is making the situation worse imo as it leaves us fans with only specualtion that the staus quo is the best we can hope for.

 

I'm not going to get into a net-spend discussion here as its overplayed and some people don't seem to grasp the positives from being able to generate good fees for mediorcre players. I'm sure that should we shift Smith for £6m and signed Mbia for £!0m then people would complain that we've only spent £4m and would have been happier spending £15m and recuperating £1m.

And some would rightly argue that the club should've stumpted up the asking price/the going rate - in order to secure the necessary ability/quality - both to upgrade the positions of weakness and to improve team morale when points were up for grabs earlier in the window, and they've bordered on relegation six pointers such is the tenuous balance between our league position and the bottom 3 - early in the window as opposed to forcing Kinnear to balance the books first & foremost which has been the often reported scenario if there were to any substantial purchases, before the said manager ended up grovelling to the men in charge via a crisis meeting at the mid-point of the window.

Ah, great. More presenting opinion as fact. He may well have messed up severely when it's come to making the major decisions, but I don't know you or anyone can be so totally sure that he wasn't being genuine and that sitting with the fans etc was definitely a PR stunt.

BTW, there were enough 'imo's' in my original post to suffice.

My favourite player of all time was Pele, who of course, happened to be black, but more importantly, he was Brazilian...

The comment about African teams is often true, whereas nobody accuses Brazil of lacking nous - nor should they..its all about culture rather than colour.

 

In any case, Brazil's great side of 1970, although having Pele and Jairzinho, both black , also had Tostao and Rivelinho - both white and both great players...Clodoaldo was also neither Black nor white, but a fantastic midfielder..

The side of 78 & 82 had Zico and Socrates, both white but both great players ; many people think the 82 side was the best since 1970 and even better than those of 94 and 2002 who won the WC, so colour really doesn't come into it - ability does..

 

The reason there are so many physical black players in the English game is because , as in Brazil, these kids often come from poor or disadvantaged backgrounds and sport is a major way of improving their lives, whereas areas like the NE & Scotland, which used to produce top players, are now relatively prosperous so the kids don't need to use football to get a good life - too much time spent watching TV or on computers..

Social & economic demographic related, relates to the African-influx in the European game over the last decade.

Also transcends to a range of sports as well. American football, basketball & boxing have always and will be black-dominated sports as youngsters - whose parents can't send their kids to ivy league schools, on money alone - look for a means of as you say improving their standard of living. Although in some cases a college, or pro-franchise, still can't eradicate the hood out of the athlete - as seen by the number of shootings over the years.

Ah, great. More presenting opinion as fact. He may well have messed up severely when it's come to making the major decisions, but I don't know you or anyone can be so totally sure that he wasn't being genuine and that sitting with the fans etc was definitely a PR stunt.

Appointing a popular-choice of manager - in Keegan - without backing what is an old-school manager both in terms of financial backing in the transfer market, and the decision making process as to who was to be bought & sold. Under the grandiose idea of the continental/set-up, with a 'my way, or the high way' manager in Keegan. *I thought it was destined for failure. A gimick managerial appointment were the words i used, a belated attempt to bring about winning & attacking football when sounds of unrest were first beginning to emerge. And that mixture was supposed to be delivered by a trusted club statesman with a minimal amount of expense, and waves in the mirage had begun to emerge early on when Keegan vetoed a couple of signings on the final day of his first Jan transfer window under Ashely and Co.

*I put a timeframe on it as well - i think it's somewhere in the DOF thread, originally dismissed by Ozzie as being "overwritten bollocks, as usual" - and i take no satisfaction in that coming to fruition. I've put this on record, in case anybody trawls through my posting history in a bid to score a minor & insignificant point.

That's a gimick appointment if i've ever seen one, all the while Ashley was strutting around with a 'Kev' shirt on..... being a man of the people, while undermining his first appointed manager of choice. The man has track record now to coincide with the opinion i formed early in the peace - at the time of his 'i stand with the Toon Army etc' proclaimation in the papers........ and Shepherd was often slaughtered for less - and i'll stand by my opinion that the bloke has been nothing but a walking PR stunt.

Good article.

And if some supporters think that promotion is a formality - all the while Ashley & Wise continue to adhere to an unbalanced strategy of building a low-cost first team squad, centered around acquiring cheap/basement prospect signings - next year in the event of us going down they'll be mistaken. That idea, or so-called formality, bit McKeag on the arse prior to prior to The Halls and Co stepping up to the plate.

I agree with True Faith's assessment. If we fall this season, there is a possibility of things getting worse.

Cracking article from Neil Farrington in the Sun there..

 

Thought so as well. Although there will be some here that will strongly object to the phrasing Ashley's Apologists.

 

These same people would most likely be able to tell us what Mr Ashley consumed for dinner last night, such is the depth of the brown-nosing which has gone on for over a year now ie. he's put his own money into the club, priorities are balancing the books etc etc.

 

Let me ask you something. What motivation do you think the Ashley Apologists have for "brown-nosing" the man? Other than a strong belief that the man should be given the time and chance to do his thing, learn from his mistakes, and try to move this club forward. Whether or not he will achieve his objectives, and the degree to which they fall in line with our hopes and dreams as fans is another story. But why crucify a man who's been here a relatively short time, and who is by all accounts a shrewd and unconventional business person with a deep hatred for the London press (something most NUFC fans have developed over the years).

 

There isn't a Newcastle fan out there who wants to see the club do badly, and that ranges from the NE5's of this world, to the DOF supporters, and everyone else in between.

Many pro-Ashley supporters are imo backing the man - or hoping that he'll change/learn from his mistakes - out of hope that he'll surpass the top 6 & CL eligible place finishes achieved under Shepherd. That has much to do with it, his surname. The strongheld belief that anything is better than Shepherd.

Despite the achievements under SBR - when Shepherd backed his manager financially....... and i'll admit the Partizan Summer ,when there was little movement in the transfer market on our part, was a mistake but outside circumstances hindered Shepherd's ability to maneuver & spend accordingly, namely the financial crunch which hit the Cameron Hall/The Halls - supporters never let up on the bloke.

Frankly i never gave a s*** as to what Shepherd said in a brothel, it carried little weight with me. What Shepherd said in that brothel was largely true. Clubs take the piss out of paying supporters every year, they'll prey off a parent's gullibility to appease their whinging kids' insistence that they must have the 'the new thing' - the annually updated home & away strips. It's the securement of a yearly income stream for the club. The directors of the Man Utd's etc, and the lower profile clubs as well, bank on our instincts as consumers as well. What Shepherd said is a popular marketing drive adopted by clubs on a largescale basis, directors of fottbal clubs will privately admit what Shepherd said was indeed correct but they won't admit it publicly. Shepherd was unknowingly caught with his hand in the cookie jar, and he payed for it ever since.

On the otherhand - re: Ashley - we have someone has played a very calculating PR game from the outset. Sat with the suporters, sang with them, reintroduced a singing section inside SJP which some have identified as a crux point of the club moving forward. A polar opposite of Shepherd, the words 'breath of fresh air' have been mentioned many a time.

Being a Mr Popular has it's advantages, despite Mr Ashley a chewing up a fraction of the time McKeag and Co needed in the 80's in terms of driving the club towards the freshhold of lower division football. And you expect me/ and others to give this bloke a chance, the opportunity to learn from his ways. Don't take this the wrong way mate, but you must be having a laugh.

I've never sought to enter the long-time soopa fan thing, but having supported the club when it was relegated & systemically run into the ground in the 80's prior to club paying the ultimate price re:relegation, i agree with HTL. This is the most unambitious board i've seen.

At least with McKeag and Co the lack of ambition and the contempt shown - while the likes of McFaul and Smith were forced to wheel & deal in the transfer market - was obvious. McKeag and Co never made a effort to earn the Mr Popular tag, while overseeing a club policy of simply treading water in the 1st divison ie. maintaining our top flight status on the barest of budgets, which was clearly at odds with our our/the supporters' collective ambition.

I toasted a pint, with a couple of mates, when McKeag *passed on. But at least his colors were there for all to see, i'll give him that much begrudgingly. There were no PR stunts ala Mr Ashley, adopted as a means of balancing out the lack of ambition shown ie. backing his managers. McKeag never made a concerted effort at being a Mr Popular or a 'supporters man'/'one for the people', he was the proverbial unambitious & contemptious arsehole.

On the otherhand Ashley imo will be remembered as being a "wolf dressed in sheep's clothing" when his time expires at this club. And another point of remembrance will be the houses blown down, in the wake of many piglets/supporters being seduced by that so-called breath of fresh air..... that welcome fresh of fresh air, a stark contrast to the politically incorrect ways - by the way of media, and the figure he threw out into the public domain - of his predecessor & 29% percent shareholder Shepherd.

*passed away.

Cracking article from Neil Farrington in the Sun there..

Thought so as well. Although there will be some here that will strongly object to the phrasing Ashley's Apologists.

These same people would most likely be able to tell us what Mr Ashley consumed for dinner last night, such is the depth of the brown-nosing which has gone on for over a year now ie. he's put his own money into the club, priorities are balancing the books etc etc.

Best in 4 years then? January 05, the window we signed Boumsong and Babayaro.

 

Id still argue that this first team would give the SBR 04 team a run for its money. My opinion anyway.

 

What? Shearer/Bellamy vs. some striker combo that just doesn't work particularly well? Robert vs. whatever winger we have who can't shoot or pass (all of them), our current spineless midfield vs Gary Speed in combination with Jenas, Dyer, Bowyer, and so on? That's a team with a hell of a lot more fight in them, and many many more goals. The current team wouldn't stand a chance. All we have is a theoretically better back 4, injuries permitting. In reality, the current team has let in 37 goals so far this season, whereas Woodgate et al conceded 40 in total the whole season.

 

We may have a first team that may look better on paper, if you disregard the fact that we don't have a single player who can shoot from outside the box, not a single player with decent off the ball movement, not a single player with any aggression up front, no one to hold up the ball, and no one to go on runs so that the ball can be successfully laid off again. We've got a bunch of decent players, but our first team is s***.

Agree completely with the first section placed in bold, but disagree with the second point.

On a side note the w***/cult hero status afforded to Guiterrez currently, when compared to the love-hate version given to Robert - ie. a match-winner - borders on embarassing imo.

Jonas isn't fit to lace Robert's boots imo.................. but it does help being a 'Webster Signing', for a minimal fee, whose imminent arrival was at the time kept out of the press.

I couldn't give a s*** tbh.

Re: topic title & press release.

I don't even know this club anymore.

 

Totally agree. It is the worst I have known and I go way back to the second division days. It's like the clubs been hijacked by a bunch of people who do not give a f*ck about the club or fans. They have no understanding of the this club, it's history and it's fans. Why would they? A fat cockney t*at who could not give a s*** about the club. The guy is clueless. As soon as I saw him posing as a fan with his top on i just thought this fat tw*t is going to be trouble. Shepherd made mistakes but I think he cared about the club and at least had a plan. He communicated with the fans. This bloke and his cronies never speak, never say what the vision is for the club. Why should a player like Shay Given stay at this club in it's present state. He owes us nothing. He should get him self to decent club where he might win something. We are a massive club with great fans being run by a bunch of cockneys who do not give a f*ck about the club. It is the complete ineptitude and ignorance of the fat b**tard running this club that scares me. Trust us to get the clown taking us over.

 

Thanks for your view, but I disagree with pretty much everything you just typed. Thats just my view!

 

he's made the best post in the last few hours by a country mile.

 

It must be pretty difficult for people like you trying to understand why we aren't in our rightful place chasing european qualification as a minimum, but if you can work it out I'd be interested in your comments.

 

 

you taking the piss ?...."rightful place" etc

Regarding Hatter's original post, and the whole shirt wearing/sitting & sitting with fans thing. Some of us identified him as being a walking gimmick early on - couple that with some of the things he said about standing at the head of the Toon Army, implying that he was the Leader of the Toon Army. Came across like a Toon Bravehart imo, and Shepherd was often slaughtered for much less.

Same applies to hiring Keegan: popular choice at a crisis time, guaranteed to deliver effective & winning football after re-educating - in the wake of Big Sam's tenureship..... could go back to Souness and Roeder's running of the 1st team - this lot as to how to play football. All the while having his popular choice of manager undermined by his front-office. When including the activities of the previous Jan transfer window when Keegan vetoed a couple of transfer deals on the window's final day - one was a Brazilian centrehalf from from the club Getafe if i recall - Keegan's influence with relation to transfer dealings was been pissed much earlier than the Summer blow-up.

All this while strutting around with a 'Kev' replica shirt on. The bloke is a walking, fraudulent gimick. But we shouldn't have expected nothing less, when looking at some his business practices pre-NUFC

Jonas is a class act, pacey, takes people on and beats them, and has already set up several assists.

 

I can't believe people on here are having a go at him, like someone said, it's his first season in the premiership.

 

 

 

Agreed, how anyone can slate him on here is amazing. His work rate and skills are unbelievable.

 

Other teams rate him obviously, otherwise they wouldn't be double marking him.

 

Is it because Wise signed him? Could that be the underlying reason some don't like him? It can't be his footballing ability surely.

 

It's not his fault that he beats 3 players and crosses the ball to where the strikers should be but are floating about somewhere else. My guess is that a top 4 side will snap him up sooner or later and he'll be very sorely missed by us.

 

 

 

my problem is he need's to start providing goals we can't rely on other's, we should expect around 10 goals a season from him, robert and solano would get around the mark consistently

 

apart from that he is a very good player, pity we ain't got the coaches to teach him how to shot

 

You're living in the clouds if you think that any of our midfielders are capable of 10 goals a season. To be fair to Solano and Robert, a lot of them goals were from dead balls and we don't have a player that can deliver a good one in or hit the target consistently. Jesus, it's a miracle if we score a goal outside the box now-a-days.

 

Jonas has 2 or 3 assists so far. It's a start and I think with some more like minded  team mates we'd get the best out of him.

I remember a fair percentage of Solano's efforts on goal - and his accompanying return - resulted sneaking from his wing and covering the far post, and meeting whatever was crossed/delivered from left-sided channels.

Nobby's innate reading of the play, and knowing when to sneak-in (particularly spotting his opposing defender/fullback drifting too far inside the penalty box ala Carr), won't be equaled for some time i suspect. It's a trait, coupled with a matching goal return, i don't expect to see from Jonas.

Nobby scored quite a few times, often unmarked at the far post, when the build-up play originated on the left side. Scored with a couple of headers as well. To dismiss Solano's overall goal return as free-kick induced is a bit of a misplaced myth imo.

If it's true, we've dodged a bullet. Better to have Ashley than two morons who could lose that much money to a scam. At least when Ashley didn't do due diligence, he still got a football club out of it.

Ashley probably thought he luckily stumbled onto one of the best deals of his business career, and he isn't one to scour over the books where his business acquirements are concerned and i've posted the link in relation to this in another thread. A club with arguably 3rd biggest supporter base in the country, and a matching 50000+ seater stadium for less than 200m.

He and his mouthpieces just duly whinged about acquiring what was predominantly managed debt ie. stadium related debt.

With a quota of good/Quick attack-minded midfielders around him, provided Ashley has the ambition to significantly strengthen the squad over the next two windows & beyond - and with a slightly 'out of the box' thinking manager at the helm, i envision Guiterrez in the role that was was earmarked for Viana & previously held by *Speed. And Viana didn't have the accompanying physical attributes & toughness to compliment his undoubted range of passing.

*Converted attacking midfielder, in that conversion is based on the player's an ability to read the play & knowing when to hit the right pass & and this often translates into being able to read the oppostion's build-up play from a defensive standpoint when asked to fill a more defensive orientated role in the middle of the park. And Speed was never an all-out physical-type destroyer as Robson's deeper playing creator. Carrick, when making a comparison with his role at West Ham during the early stages of his career to his present & previous midfield role United and Spurs, has followed a similar path.

Guitterrez rebounding & setting up counterattacks, from the deeper positions through the central corridor, is the most fascinating scenario imo.

Class act for a player who isn't going to score or assist heavily. Of all the players in our squad, I think he'd look the best in a top four side, because the opposition couldn't afford to double up on him all game without worrying about the space that would leave for other dangers/talented players in a top four calibre team.

 

Works hard, good touch, decent passing, good movement, beats players consistently, drives the team forward and plays teamates into good positions (not direct goalscoring opportunities, but situations where they can go and provide that for someone else), and will chip in with a moderate number of assists over the course of a season.

 

Thinking about it, he'd actually be a perfect signing for ManU. Good foil for C.Ronaldo on the other flank who provides the end product that Gutierrez doesn't, has the movement/touch/awareness to fit into ManU's system along with the work rate, and would be a big upgrade on Park Ji Sung. Ferguson tends to be a bit slow when it comes to signing established Premiership players from other clubs, he's usually prepared to wait a season or two before any real interest comes out in the open, so although there may be no sign of it right now, I wouldn't be suprised if Fergie has an eye on him, especially after that opening day Old Trafford performance.

Speculative, but there's base behind what you say. Saha, Berbatov & Tevez are cases in point - where approaches were made amidst a series of streaks of hot-form, pertaining to the players mentioned. You could also mentione their/United repeated attempts to sign Viera - when Kenyon was CEO - as another example, after Viera had quickly established himself as the league's premier deep-playing midfielder. A natural & eventual successor for Keane.

If clubs do have their eye on him - as you say - then the Summer transfer window will make for interesting reading, if we avoid the drop this season. Afterall the club, according to their mantra, are placing an emphasis on signing players with marketable resale value. Gutierrezz, probably signed for a couple of million - if the club financed him paying off his Mallorca contract, fits the bill if Ashley can recoup 10m and a hefty profit on the original Webster-based outlay.

Still a solid 7-8. I voted for something in this vicinity originally.

Kinnear's 'fire & brimstone/backs to the wall/Us Versus The World' motivational based style management - minus Keegan's nous of having teams play effective football, with shape - to wear thin with this squad over the course of the second half of the season.

Our fate will be decided amidst the last couple of fixtures imo.

Merlin gave 2 players that were happy to stay in Speed and Rob Lee, I've given 3 examples of players that left because they wanted to move to what they thought were better clubs with more chance of success

 

Only 2 of 3 put transfers requests in iirc. Also I thought Didi & Jermaine wanted to f*** off because they hated living in Newcastle.

On another note, I think those 3 sales were all record transfer fees received.

To expand further. I heard that Hamman's and Gullit's working relationship - they had a bit of a bit of a bust-up - had broken down in the wake of Hamman being substituted in our losing FA Cup final effort against Arsenal.

And Hamman wasn't the first player to fall foul of the Dutchman, for varying reasons of course, and Lee & Shearer inevitably outlasted Gullit as results took a sharp downturn the following year. I wasn't surprised in the slightest when he was sold during the ensuinf Summer.

Seriously hope Upson comes in now. If one of Bassong/Coloccini/Beye gets injured, we're well and truly f***ed

A reference to Taylor no doubt.

I'm not defending him, as i think he's just about shot as a centrehalf. I've maintained that his career here - in the heart of our defence - has been at the crossroads for a year or so now.

Right-back is his best position imo. Less of the paddock to patrol, less space to get confused in. Enjoyed his best run of form under Souness, when employed as a RB, where he simply has to just play off one or two widemen - rather having to worry about sort of movement into the box one has to expect inside the box.

In the middle of the park simply doesn't know how to defend space, or knowing when to commit to an attacker's run into the box & when to hold his position by reading & reacting.

For all his faults as a marking centrehalf, when the defense employed a high line, Andy O'brien was a dependable defender when the side looked to defend the fort. He was aware of the space he defended and movement around him. Taylor isn't, and his weakness' - as mentioned above - is suicidal within Kinnear's more 'defend-at-all-costs' orientated mindset.