Kid Icarus

I think I just finally got that song. Never ever really liked it before. 

Is that all? Doesn't seem like a lot to be going on.

Haven't really been paying attention to PL football after Rafa went. What's Potter done since then to suddenly be seen as a bit of a football hipster darling? (By that, I mean that Tifo seem to mention him a lot)

This is definitely one element of it where it's easy to laugh in their faces over it all.

This NUFC is you, you fucking idiots. You'd think the Chelsea and Man City takeovers, and the attempt to run off to form a Super League had never happened. All the Spiderman pointing hypocrisy of late stage capitalism at its finest.

This very well might be football's jumping the shark moment, but they gleefully dragged it there.

If moving a full building like that is an actual thing and not just a fantasy then I'm sure the uni would happily sell them all of the Business School and Science City land to move into and away from the listed buildings. 

1 minute ago, 54 said:

Where he said that?

 

In his The Athletic Q&A. Probably a good time to get a subscription at the moment, there's loads about Newcastle on there.

Caulkin was told there's no chance of Rangnick coming, FWIW.

I'm sorry like, but I'd find it hard not to laugh if after all this Staveley was absolutely shit.  How couldn't you?

7 minutes ago, Kasper said:

 

No that's not the point. I'm seriously amazed that so many people seem to be confused about what the issue is.

Okay, so what's the issue and exactly what about it changes where the money comes from? 

Isn't the point that it's Saudi blood money, not that their goal for each is different? Why does that change anything about where the money comes from?

2 minutes ago, Si said:

Where did he say all fans out of interest? He specifically says "except the ones who spent the last month's asking for just this" and "some fans".

He said it with what he chose to focus on, which is fair enough, just a bit of an eye roll over getting tarred with the same brush. 

11 minutes ago, Rafalove said:

 

 

maybe not *all* but well over 90% by recent poll numbers he’s more than within his rights to generalise in this case.

 

 

 

it’s fine to criticise fans for wanting this takeover, we deserve it tbh. I do think i there is some cowardice though when you criticise fans but not managers players too.

 

 

The likes of Pep or Messi or Neymar are never blamed for being complicit in the way fans are. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think I’ve seen any of those asked “tough” questions on this. Yet fans were there before before any of those superstars.

I know the NUST numbers were around 93% in favour, but if that's representative 7% is still about 160,000 people to be making assumptions about in real numbers. He's certainly happy to focus on the small percentage of people carrying on with towels on their heads or waving flags. It doesn't bother me like, all fans of all clubs are always lumped together like that and I've always thought that it's stupid. This is always what was going to happen and it'll never ever end. 

The assumption that all Newcastle fans are for the takeover, or that being happy that Ashley's gone automatically means you endorse the Saudis is absolutely shite like, but this is what we all knew was coming. 

The only complaint I really have about Squires these days is that he's far too wordy and rarely as funny as he used to be. Didn't think that one was that bad tbh, I've definitely seen the stuff that he's talking about, especially last summer. The mental gymnastics ones is bollocks like, anyone still choosing to use a Saudi funded product that would be easy to give up, is in no position to expect Newcastle fans to boycott or walk away from the football club they've supported all of their life. 

I can't get away from thinking that it'll end up being Rafa in the end. Maybe not the next manager, but in the long term. 

18 minutes ago, POOT 2.0 said:

 

I want to counter this, but not seem like I'm being personal to you, Wullie. I'm not. 

I disagree with this, as most people aren't using it as a reason that they "don't care". They're using it as a reason why they don't feel they deserve the weight of the problem shoved solely onto their shoulders. Which is what a lot of criticism is wrongfully (and unfairly) doing. Thankfully, a lot of good journalists are pointing out it's not the responsibility of the fans, but should be a concern for the fans.

And I think it's fair to use it as a defence. Those who claim other investments don't count because a club is different, are missing the whole point, IMHO. It's not about the semantics of what type of investment the Saudis have (80% shares, 10% shares, public shares or private shares), it's about the bottom-line of their insane lack of human rights. Surely that's the underlying grievance? And if you take a vocal stance on the issue (which we all should)...then it's all encompassing. You simply can't separate them out, for any reason. Not sure why people are arguing to do so. I'm not sure what the end-game of that argument would be. 

 

The underlying point has to be the grievance that Saudi Arabia has appalling human rights record. Not that we don't like Saudi Arabia have a controlling interest in our club because of their appalling human rights record. That feels disingenuous to the big issue, and feels very self-centred. 

 

 

I think you're both right like. It's a double edged sword - precisely because it's your football club means it should mean more to you than it does with Uber, Starkbucks, and Disney, but because it's your club means walking away isn't anywhere near being an option in the same way that it is not using Uber, Starbucks, or Disney+.

I think it's fair to say that anyone looking on from the outside and not being able to understand why Newcastle fans aren't kicking up a fuss while they're using those companies and have a much easier consumer decision to make don't really have a leg to stand on.

Obviously that's not to say that them being hypocritical means that they're wrong. 

13 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

They supported us on a lot of those endeavors btw. So that actually isn’t even as cut and dry as you’re making it out . You could even argue that they green lit suicide bombings with the exportation of Wahhabism, so are we counting that too?  But that withstanding, we shouldn’t be precluded from judgment of Saudi Arabia because of our foreign policies?
 

No. We are talking about human rights and the second we execute or persecute a homosexual purely for being gay in this country I will agree. The fact is we do not do that. We operate a largely free society (obvs it has issues no one is denying that). The “it’s colonial:racist” is such a dope and deflection, a Labour MP should be ashamed of putting that in his article. There are plenty of sticks to beat the west with, calling out human rights issues in other countries is certainly not one of them. There is no utopian country, it’s unfortunate but that’s how it is but a basic standard of human rights should be a given. 

We did do that for years. No idea why you're continuing to ignore actions abroad but I don't think we're going to get anywhere near to agreeing, so best just leave it there 

26 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

The current societies we live in our incomparable. All I said was it’s nonsense to call the west’s view of human rights as “colonial and racist”.  China frequently steps on human rights, is it  “racist” to point that out now? I swear we are spoiled here by how good we have it.  

No of course it's not. Surely the point isn't that pointing it out is colonial and racist, but that not seeing it as the same thing when the west does it, or trying to claim that other states are worse is? I mean you're still saying the west and SA are incomparable but for some reason you're only really looking at the disparity between societies and not factoring in actions abroad.

And it's not a case at all of saying that you can't criticise the Saudis because the west is bad, it's purely in response to you saying that they're incomparable and not as bad. Of course you can and should criticise the Saudis.

3 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Actually it really is. You’re completely obfuscating the point. What is the deal with the left suddenly denigrating actual positives about our society. It’s not racist or colonialist to point out human rights abuses. It’s absurd thinking. I don’t have blinkers on thanks.

The Chinese internment of Muslims is awful man”

 

”yeah but that’s a bit imperialist and racist to point that out because we’ve got a bad record of foreign policy” 

 

Sure.  

I'm not obfuscating anything man, you're making up points I haven't and wouldn't make. It's really simple, our own societies are clearly freer and don't have the human rights issues internally that the Saudis have. Our and the U.S's foreign actions abroad are easily comparable and historically over a long and short period far beyond the atrocities of the Saudis. Why you're only looking domestically, I'm not sure.

2 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Overall a good piece but that “people in glass house/ There is a racist/colonial view of human rights in the west” is such unmitigated cope and nonsense. It’s not racist to call out human rights abuses. He shouldn’t have included that nonsense

It's really not and I say that as someone who fully realises who MBS is. You might have the blinkers on where the west is concerned. Our own societies may have more freedom but our and the U.S actions abroad, or in fact our sponsorship and trading with the very regimes you say are night and day to our own is there for all to see 

1 hour ago, Hanshithispantz said:

It's time to fall back in love with the beautiful game.

Good to see you

Reminds me of when we tried to warn the Palace forum about Pardew, got told to fuck off and then they all ended up absolutely hating him, as expected. ? 

4 hours ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

Think it's important to remember that despite Ashley there were some good moments in the last 14 years, just far too few and far too sporadic 

There were some good times. Both championship seasons despite how we shouldn't have been there in the first place, the half a season in the PL with Hughton and the group of lads, the last few months of the 5th season had some enjoyable football and probably the best line up we had, the season back up with Rafa had a triumph over adversity feel to it 

All instances of enjoying it or feeling part of something in spite of Ashley and because of that, all of them deliberately shut down, dismantled, and undermined by Ashley out of spite.

9 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Come on man. How is the US just as bad?  Name one state in the US that lawfully does this:

 

”Saudi Arabia has no criminal code and the primary source of law in the country the Islamic Sharia, derived from the Qur'an and the traditions of Muhammadcontained in the Sunnah. Homosexuality and being transgender are widely seen as immoral and indecent activities, and the law punishes acts of homosexuality or cross-dressing with fines, public whipping, beatings, chemical castrations,[1] imprisonment up to life, the death penalty(though it has not been applied for homosexuality alone)[5] and torture.[6]”

 

Purely on foreign intervention alone. The U.S has far more domestic freedom.

I'd say B-More is absolutely right there. The U.S (and Israel) are just as bad, if not worse, and comfortably so. Obviously not an excuse, there'd be an outcry if those states owned clubs and rightly so. This is exactly how sports washing works though, they're not daft and know fine well the emotional ties that people have to their football clubs and that even those who are well aware what the likes of MBS have done and feel guilt will try to justify it to themselves or feel conflicted, and that those who don't feel guilty at all will openly defend them.

There's a bit in Manufacturing Consent that talks about how team sports train people to have irrational attitudes of submission to authority. I'm not saying that has been the explicit intention here, but I do think there's a lot to be said for that idea and that it's the basis for sports washing's success.