Holmesy

36 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I understand this criticism, but also low blocks are hard to break down. That’s their purpose. Otherwise poor teams would just get smashed every week and finish the season on zero points. 
 

Particularly difficult if your team isn’t built for possession football of course. 

Low blocks work, that's why teams employ them. But consistently leaving yourselves vulnerable to counter attacks by throwing everyone forward against them clearly isn't the way. I've no idea what is the way with our current squad but it's not my job to find one, just to criticise 

12 hours ago, Matt1892 said:

Yesterdays performance was great, as was the home performance against Arsenal a month ago, and the home game against Man City just over a month before that.

 

What that demonstrates is that we are raising our performances for the big games, yet the games in between like Palace, West Ham and Fulham we have been terrible and look unmotivated.

 

Hopefully this is us turning the corner, and the December fixtures don’t look too bad with 2 promoted sides at home, but it does feel like we have been in a similar position a number of times this season and failed to build on it.

I know I sound like a broken record but this raises the plan B question again. Against teams that attack us and go out to win the game, we are very effective. Against lesser teams that sit back, nullify our strengths and then hit us on the break we are shite. If we can find a way to be more effective at breaking down stubborn defences we'll be flying.

There have been countless times in the past 6-7 games where our play around the box has been utter shite, and it highlights how much of a different proposition we would be if we had a proper #10 with some craft and guile. Someone in the Odegard mould but obviously not as expensive.

That little ball Isak played through to Hall is exactly what I mean. We need someone clever we could base our movement around who can do that every game. Isak has it in spades but he needs to be the one on the end of those balls ideally.

It would break our existing 4-3-3 setup but I don't think that's a bad thing if it gave us a new attacking dimension.

1 hour ago, Paully said:

 

Add that to the stonewall penalty we were denied by a shit, blind ref and corrupt VAR team! We should've had the 3 points.
Ref's call my arse!

8 hours ago, Pilko said:

We'll obviously miss an excellent defender and ball player when the moment comes that he's pensioned off, but I think we will miss his goals nearly as much. Class act.

I don't think there's another CB like him in world football. He'll be such a big miss when he finally retires.

Genuinely one of my favourite Toon players of all time.

1 minute ago, PauloGeordio said:

Plus the Sandro effect! 

Narrative!

Ref’s call?! Ref’s call was wrong ffs! What the fuck is VAR there for?

Shocking by Gordon.

Absolutely no surprise there’s no punishment for Van Dick - res cartel do what they want, especially against us

Jesus, we’re so shit around the box 

Controversial take, but isn’t worth us trying to float some of these set pieces? It’s so frustrating watching us do the same thing time after time with no danger at all

2 hours ago, TRon said:

 

 

I'm actually not dreading this fixture as much as usual. They are playing great, we have played shite in our last two games, so expectations are not that high. It's a perfect scenario for an upset, especially in front of a home crowd that will be jumping.

 

A lot depends on a proper striker starting though. If it's Gordon up front, we're shagged.

We were playing shite in the run up to Man City and Arsenal and we pulled results out of the bag. It would he very 'us' right now if we got something out of this. As someone on Talksport said the other day - we're more Spursy than Spurs at the moment

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I agree a bit, but also don't. Are we saying we need a first team supported by much worse squad players? Only going to exacerbate the Championship/Champions League nature of our squad, isn't it?

 

I know because Barnes was signed rather than already here it's a debate, but still seems a move that might leave us weaker overall. 

If the transfer policy changes a bit so we're looking at younger, less PL-proven players with potential, selling Barnes could provide the funds for two players of that ilk. And those two will essentially do the job he is doing at the moment - mostly warming the bench but coming on as an impact sub. Clearly we're in a position where we have to do some smart trading, and if it's a case of selling Bruno, Isak or Barnes to fund new signings, there's a clear front-runner

13 minutes ago, AJ9 said:

I would move him on if it freed up funds for RW. We have Joelinton as cover, and potentially Willock can cover there too. I do rate Barnes, but not the way we use him in the squad.

This is the crux of it. He's a starter in most PL teams below the top 7-8 maybe. It was a strange transfer at the time and it looks like Eddie doesn't really know what to do with him.

I can see him getting frustrated at not being a starter, and angling for a move. Might suit both parties tbh

2 hours ago, joeyt said:

Poll on the BBC asking if van Dijk is the best centre back three Prem has ever seen? What's our thoughts?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ce90jgzxk9ko

 

 

No. Last 10 years maybe but the PL has had some fantastic CBs who excelled in a much more physical league.

He's potentially in the conversation but a lot of very good players have been forgotten

10 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Almost no PL clubs buy strikers proven to score goals here. Proven to score goals somewhere else, maybe. 

And the problem is when you do, you end up looking at trash like Calvert-Lewin 

21 minutes ago, nufcjmc said:

If this is a comment after the game while it's his job to handle the press i do feel for him. Right after a defeat and right when things arent going right. 

 

He's right in that buying ready made guaranteed to get you goals Premier league goals is hard to come by and those with known form are a fortune. Issue is something needs to be done especially if the table stabilises and we aren't there to grab the opportunity. 

 

I still feel a creative right winger helps so much if they too feel comfortable playing across the front three or up top it's another variable/switch that can be made tactically bot not essential. Wilson or isak middle, gordan stays where he's proved to be most effective all those moving about and combinations haven't worked outside of a single game. 

 

Our front 3 are just not working while the cheapest option is to back what we have to hit form and put it right it's unlikely to happen based on how far into the season we are now and no one has hit their peak and kept it.

 

 

 

Isak wasn't a ready made guaranteed to get you goals. He was a very good striker but a calculated risk who came from another league, but I would say he's worked out ok.

Other teams seem to be able to identify talent from overseas and make them work as well. It's a fucking nonsense!

The PL is far more like other continental leagues now than it ever was and players are protected from the physicality that originally defined the PL - that was often the make or break. 

2 hours ago, KingArthur said:

Have to say I am bit worried about Livramento. Of course the bigger problem is the right winger, but his passing and decisions when to release and when to dribble is quite often lacking. He is getting better defensively, but comparing that with Trippier's attacking play it really is a big change.

Really doesn't work at the moment no matter who is playing at right wing. And definitely there has to be a left footed player in front of him.

I reckon Trippier would struggle in the current setup as well though. He had an on-fire Miggy in front of him when we were at our best, and a movement-based gameplan that worked down that flank. Livra often has Longstaff just inside and bugger all of any consequence on the right wing. He's on a hiding to nothing in an attacking sense

19 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Gordon has done nothing to show that he is capable of playing as a 10.  He is limited technically and his passing is pretty bad IMO.  I don't think we have a 10 in our squad.  The only one who could possibly do it from a technical standpoint is Bruno.  But he isn't particularly mobile to put it politely and I think with the players we have.  Our build up is reliant on him moving the ball further up the pitch and getting on it a bit deeper.  I think the game would pass him by playing there and we wouldn't find him anywhere near enough.  

 

Murphy back in would be a step backwards.  He isn't good enough to be starting for a Premier League team who wants to be top half/in Europe.

Is Willock an option? He has that burst of pace and acceleration that could get him into the box but he lacks guile and end product.
Barnes is another option since he at least has composure in the final third and can shoot with both feet. Clutching at straws a bit though.
I think Gordon has to play on the left. It where he has been most effective for us and his form has dropped off since we started moving him around.

                      Isak

Gordon       Barnes.       Murphy?

           Tonali.          Bruno

Harsh on Joelinton, and I'd prefer we didn't have to play Murphy but that's what happens when you don't sign a decent RW for 3+ years

Maybe we play that at home and something more conservative away (it'll never happen but i'm bored as fuck so why not)

                    Isak

Gordon                          Murphy?

           Tonali         Bruno

                  Joelinton

28 minutes ago, JEToon said:

Its rare for all but about 3 teams in the league to go on a winning run in all honesty, it’s a bit of a false opposition, it’s predominantly about points collection which we are still doing at a reasonable rate, can that improve, of course. The season really isn’t the dumpster fire you’re trying to push here. 
 

He’s a good coach and demonstrated that often enough

I go back to my original point - it’s not so much about the results, it’s about the performances. That’s what concerns me. We don’t look like we have any ideas. Our identity has gone, we’re probably the worst team in the league at attacking set pieces despite having a physically imposing team and our ability to unlock a tight defence has all but disappeared. Our one dimension is seemingly too easy to negate.

Are we seeing signs that these things are being addressed and are improving? Not to my untrained eye, no.

It’s far too early to call the season a dumpster fire but there are some really concerning signs that even the most ardent Eddie fan can’t ignore/deny.

7 hours ago, JEToon said:

OK  

 

we currently, even with what we have won, sit 3 points off a European place.

“10th” means fuck all without context of the league,  it’s tedious to keep saying “10th”  when Spurs and Villa are “8th” and “9th” 

The teams above us for the most part haven’t show they are “far more capable”  hence why the league is so close or they’d have left pishy old us in the dust. Instead they also drop points to teams they shouldn’t as this league is marginal as fuck across about 14 teams. 

 

its gate keeping projection pish - other teams might improve? but we just can’t possibly do that, it’s so weird to think like that, but you keep hoping for the worst. 
 

until we actually are shite can you stop pretending we are, it’s strange as fuck to do that. 

 

 

 

Pretending we are?! What have you been watching because it’s clearly not the same games I, and most others have.

Describe our current identity and attacking gameplan? How are we trying to break teams down?

As I have said a hundred times on here, I have made no secret of the fact I don’t think Eddie is the guy to take us to the next level. I love him as a person but I think he has already reached his ceiling and bounced off it. 
Am I willing him to fail? No, of course not. Like everyone, I am willing him to succeed. 

But do I think we need minor tweaks to go on a winning run that secures European football? again no. I think we need a whole new gameplan.

Nothing we are seeing suggests we are close.

Do I think Eddie is the kind of guy and manager to rip up the script and do something radically different to give us fresh impetus? No, but I seriously hope he proves me wrong, and if he does I will happily eat humble pie.

As things stand, the only way I see us getting back to our best is with new signings.

i respect and admire your optimism but I don’t share it. There are too many red flags starting to show.

14 minutes ago, JEToon said:

It is in the context of how the league season is playing out 

We have the same points as Villa and Spurs for fuck sake

 

its not optimistic it’s reality, had we won today we’d have been 2 points off third 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You keep saying this ‘had we won’ stuff. Had we beaten West Ham, Palace, Fulham, City and Everton we’d be comfortably in the top 4.

But we didn’t, which is why we’re 10th.

We are currently dropping points to teams we should on-paper be beating, and we look clueless in the process. 
Saying we’re only x points off x is only relevant if the second x is realistically achievable, which it isn’t if you keep dropping points when you shouldn’t. It’s a snapshot view of a more complex, moving situation. 
The reality is that if Man City win we’ll be 7 points off third. And all of the teams above us seem far more capable than us at winning games. 

17 minutes ago, JEToon said:

What we deserve is still, to go back to it, in the race for Europe and a Cup.

 

“Crap” is hyperbole, but that’s what people feel makes a point stronger online. 

 

 

 

Is 10th place really considered ‘in the race for Europe’? 
By that token, Bournemouth are also

in the race for Europe because they’re mid-table too?

I’m all for a bit of optimism but that’s reaching a bit.
 

1 hour ago, JEToon said:

but for a penalty scored and a moment of daftness today we’d be joint third. 

Have we been great, no, not really. I just can’t get this world on fire thing quite yet personally 

 

 

 

I get that but we’re not. But for a Man City win last season we’d be in Europe. But for a dodgy decision in the CL we might have gone through. There are a million ifs, buts and maybe.

The fact is we’re crap at the moment and we’re getting what we deserve. 

He’s been hung out to dry with the lack of signings but we still have a squad capable of doing more than it’s doing now.

31 minutes ago, JEToon said:

I don’t entirely agree with a lot of that 

 

it’s been bitty, at times we’ve looked closer to results than not 

 

 

We haven’t had a shot on target in 166 minutes and look incapable of unlocking defences in most games. We don’t look remotely threatening from corners and our general attacking play is rubbish. We give the ball away a lot - I’d love to see the statistic on our surrender of possession compared to other teams in the league.

Nothing we’ve seen for the past 6-8 months suggests we’re a well oiled machine about to go on a winning run.

Are you seeing something different to that? Maybe I’m just being too critical 🤷🏻‍♂️

36 minutes ago, JEToon said:

I think if you have a decent clutch of brain cells common sense would say he’s a fair bit to go before he’s sacked 

 

I get it though people read it so much online they talk themselves into it being truth that he’s a manager close to the sack

 

 

 

It’s less the results though and more the performances. We have knowledgeable football guys with the ear of the board and if they’re seeing why we’re seeing, he might be closer to the door than you think.
If we were showing signs of playing well but not getting the rub of the green, you’d say the tide might turn. But we look totally bereft of ideas regardless who is playing. We’ve been labouring for a good while now and we know he’s not the kind of manager to park the bus and grind out a result just to kickstart some momentum. 

The only way I see things changing if he gets 2-3 new first teamers in January, which isn’t going to happen. How else is he going to change it?