Holmesy

Is there another CB who can do what he does, anywhere?! Passing, ball striking, finishing, all combined with exceptional defensive positioning and intelligence.

From the point of view of replacing  him, we’re not going to be able to do it like for like presumably?

Far far too good to be warming the bench. He’s absolutely class.

Obviously he’s the natural successor to Trippier, but he’s surely not going to be happy as a bit part player for another season or two?!

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Thought Almiron deserved a start after Tuesday.  He was great. Murphy was bad.  
 

I wouldn’t mind the Burn thing except he started Livra at Arsenal. That doesn’t look great in retrospect.  

Can’t imagine it’s doing wonders for Livra’s motivation 

On 29/02/2024 at 16:13, Dr Venkman said:

We'll win this.

Yeah, I’ve got a feeling we’re going to show up for this one 

2 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Ultimately, for Ferguson to achieve what he did at Man Utd, a level of patience was needed as even back then he was lucky to survive despite his achievements at Aberdeen. Three seasons in the bottom half of the league out of his first six at Man Utd, even back then was a lot to overlook. Kudos to them.

 

Eddie Howe's work here has been exemplary so far, and three or so poor months and enough is enough for some folks. That is an incredible level of impatience and short sightedness. I just don't get it.

I think there are very few who are saying enough is enough. There are always a few bedwetters on bad match days but in general the discussion around Eddie's strengths and weaknesses are pretty balanced and reasonable.

The injuries and fixture congestion have to be taken into account, without question. However, what they have revealed, in Eddie's handling of them, are some clear things that need to be worked on if he wants to be considered in that elite bracket and probably if he wants to be our manager for the long term, specifically more ruthlessness towards dropping poor performing players and more flexibility around systems and tactics - a setup to help us see out games when we're in the lead, a system that still allows us to grind out results when we're not at full strength, an alternative way to approach games against superior or tricky opposition.  If he continues with his 'one setting fits all approach' he only has himself to blame if at all falls apart again.

We've got to remember, this is Eddie's first season in the Champions League and first season balancing 4 competitions. He's had every bit of bad luck you can imagine, but he's also made some clear errors along the way. Hopefully he can learn from them and kick on, and the owners give him the time to do that. 

Just now, The Prophet said:

 

Potentially undervalued, but not dramatically so.

I was genuinely shocked he went for so little. Proven PL door openers with end product are not easy to come by, and all of his best years should be ahead of him. And we sold him to a country that was chucking money about for fun. Feels like we had our pants pulled down

On 26/02/2024 at 18:51, Big Jow said:

We do seem to be really good at having our valuations and sticking to them from a selling point. Can’t think of a single player who has left who I would’ve expected more for and if we start getting £20m for backroom staff we are taking the piss.

 

 

St Maximin?

3 minutes ago, mouldy_uk said:

Busy summer selling our stars 

 

Hopefully a busy summer selling our dross. There’s plenty of it 

6 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

 

Good. Busy summer sounds like exactly what we need.

24 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

It's not all on Eddie by the way. I think our recent transfer strategy has been dodgy.

I think the season and sentiment would be very different if we had a fully fit Tonali available for most of it. He was clearly brought in to bring creativity, class and drive from midfield and yet we've had to battle on with Longstaff and Miley for months on end.

On balance, given injuries, suspensions and management's reluctance to play certain players, we've arguably been weaker player-wise this season than we were last despite signing 4 talented additions. Couple that with teams now knowing how to effectively play against us, and it's surprising the decline hasn't been worse.

I turned on at 55 minutes and saw us have all of the ball and create a boatload of chances to win the game in the following 65. Blackburn created 2 chances in the time I was watching, scoring 1.

I’m not saying we were decent, the football was devoid of ideas, lethargic, rushed, players were static and we gave the ball away loads. Watching Longstaff was painful and Dan Burn’s inability to head the fucking ball at 6 ft 7 is baffling. But, we weren’t as bad as a lot of you are making out. We dominated the proportion of the game I watched and deserved to win on the balance of play. 

And to be fair to Blackburn, they’ve got a few players who really caught the eye. 

We need a big clear out 

Useless cunts!

Danny Murphy can get in the fucking sea. Insufferable prick!

26 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

When people talk about changing system, they basically mean 5ATB don't they?  We don't have 2 fit strikers and have already tried 4231 with Bruno as the AM.  I'm not sure 5ATB from the start is the answer either tbh.

Not necessarily although i'd like to see it. I just think with the pace of Almiron and Gordon, the clinical nature of Isak and the precision of Bruno and Tripper, we have the perfect set-up to hit teams on the counter. So maybe play deeper, press when the opposition cross the halfway line and capitalise on the space in behind. Basically exactly what some teams have done to us. If that's a deeper 4-3-3, fine. And not all the time, just as a plan B to see out games or against teams who are shitting on us - Arsenal, Dortmund, Forest etc.

31 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

The problem is though we don't know the extent to which these alternative approaches have been explored in training, and whether the current players available were deemed to be better off persisting with the current approach, with the more minor tweaks Howe has tried here and there.

 

There is no certainty that a change in formation, or a more defensive and counter attacking approach suddenly cures all ills.

 

I think some of us just have more faith in the manager and his decision making and are fine to let him work through this tough period, while others seemingly see it as evidence he is not up to the task, which in my opinion is incredibly shortsighted.

You could be right. I suppose what this conversation confirms is that there's a definite loss of confidence in Eddie from me, given some of the things we've witnessed this season. I remember under Rafa, I just trusted absolutely in everything he did because he consistently made silk purses out of piles of shit and seemed to have a tactical answer for everything. Last season I felt the same about Eddie, but that confidence has definitely eroded a bit. Hopefully it comes back next season.

19 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

It all sounds so simple.

 

So when Mourinho was stinking at Spurs why didn't he just change setting? 

 

When Conte was stinking at Spurs why couldn't he just change setting?

 

These are the elite managers we should be after right? Why couldn't they both just figure it out, even without an injury crisis?

 

 

Perhaps they couldn't, and that ultimately led to their demises. Maybe they reached the limit of what they were capable of with the groups of players they had.

Maybe the same is true of Eddie. Who knows?!  Maybe he is literally a one setting manager.

What you've described in your post is the various different ways we've tried to implement setting 1. Even when we were down to bare bones, we still had the pace and the players available to play an effective counter-attacking style, which we didn't do even once. Instead, we further rinsed the players we had trying to play high intensity front foot for 90 minutes.

2 hours ago, Shadow Puppets said:

I maintain it is ALL down to the midfield not functioning properly at all without the legs of Joelinton and Willock.

You're probably spot on with that, but isn't it the manager's job to find a way around it? For me, some of the criticism of Eddie is way over the top, but some of it is warranted.

One of the frustrating narratives is that he can't do anything about it when it's literally his job to do something about it. Who is it setting the midfield up to push so far forward? Who is it deciding not to play one of the midfielders deeper? Who is it not experimenting with different formations, shapes and systems to negate our weaknesses? Who persisted with probably the slowest outfield player in the PL game after game, when he was getting torn to shreds after the pedestrian midfield was bypassed?

You can't say it's down to the midfield and absolve Eddie of blame, when he sets up the midfield. It's like we're stuck on one setting and people are defending Eddie by saying we don't have the right players to play that setting, so what do you expect?! Honestly, I expect us to be able to change setting. 

His energy and movement are going to be so welcome, assuming he can stay fit. If we keep Livra as first choice LB and have Willock's pace in CM, i think we'll go a long way to negating some of the glaring problems we've been experiencing over the past few months. 

On 15/02/2024 at 23:28, andycap said:

When bruno picks up his next yellow who do you think howe will pick to replace him? 

Dan Burn

On 19/02/2024 at 17:01, Yorkie said:

I honestly find it mind-blowing that anyone has changed their perception of Howe - and whether or not he is 'elite' or whether or not he's capable of evolving - based on one very specific matter, i.e. his continued selection of a LB who's been an ever-present in a team which: soared into 4th, got to a cup final, performed admirably in the Champions League, and is in contention for European places again. 

 

I appreciate that the context has changed and a good idea isn't a good idea forever, but you can surely at least recognise that continuing to pick him isn't 'a basic error.' It's a tactical choice designed to benefit our structure when we're in possession and/or attacking. 

Totally understand where you're coming from, but when one player is consistently costing you goals and points, picking him is a basic error. Not just from a tactical POV as well - players will be talking, regardless of how matey they are or how tight knit they are, there will be elements within the squad that are talking about Dan Burn letting the side down and undoing their efforts. It just doesn't send a good message to other players, that consistent shit performances will not be punished. No 'elite' manager would persist with a player like this - they had/have a ruthlessness that demands higher standards, and they all would've dropped Burn a long time ago. 

EH has literally ignored a catastrophic weakness in our team, that every opponent has exploited to good effect over the past few weeks. They don't have to be any more sophisticated tactically than 'fast player, run at their left back'. That's as basic as it gets. It's non-league level stuff. Attacking plays in the PL should never be as simple as that, this is elite level sport ffs!

Pundits have started questioning his selections and highlighting DB, journalists as well. All that stuff starts to seep into cracks that weren't there before and threaten to pick away at the positive atmosphere that has been around the club since the takeover.

And it's just not the DB element that had led to some doubt creeping in - poor squad/fatigue management, mis-managing certain games eg. the Liverpool one mentioned earlier. If it was a one-off, you put it down to a bad day. But there have been 2-3 more occasions this season where poor game management and tactical naivety have cost us.

I am still firmly behind Eddie Howe as our manager. I think he's been a revelation, but where I was 100% last season i'm probably more 90% now. Still firmly in his corner but with some question marks creeping in. 

On 19/02/2024 at 19:42, Lush Vlad said:

I was thinking about the Arsenal game and looking further ahead, the Chelsea game, whilst out walking the hound this morning. I wonder if he might go to a back 5 or change the formation and style a bit, at least? 
 

Not exactly spoilt for choice with bench options in the midfield and forward areas. Yet fairly stacked at the back on comparison.
Arsenal are free scoring and even if Willock and Isak are available. How long can they realistically play and how sharp will they be? Certainly can’t be risking them yet AGAIN in this. 
 

Chelsea are not great but recently played us off the park at their place when we had a similar team out and should have scored a lot more. 
 

Just concerning how easily we have been played through and how wide open we are against far worse teams. Pretty much been the case since mid-December and surely there has to be some give at some point. 
 

The few tweaks at Forest give me some hope he might alter things. 

 

 

 

I’d really love that to be the case, but I can’t see anything other than Dan Burn at left back getting dry bummed by Saka, us conceding another 3 goals and Eddie doing exactly the same the following game. He just seems determined to keep Burn in the starting lineup regardless of consequence. 3 CBs, with Livra in at LB would make so much sense, but I fear it’s wishful thinking. 

35 minutes ago, Heron said:

Dan Burn has strategically been left wide open and made our scapegoat as a result. Anyone 'blaming' Dan Burn needs to look directly at Eddie Howe's failures. How you can berate someone for giving their absolute all for the team they absolutely adore is beyind me. If you cannot get the above you're a fucking idiot.

It is 100% Eddie Howe’s fault, 100%. Burn is absolutely the wrong choice for whatever we’re trying to execute right now.

7 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

They don't, it's how teams played a few years ago but not now, not even Liverpool - Robertson's often on the bench and Trent plays in midfield. And when they did, they had 3 streetwise midfielders to cover them, at the moment we don't. Man City play Ake at LB and set up similar lopsided way to us too. There's no top team in the league that you see play like that now.

 

As for the rest, a clown show? Really?  This is why people go on about the criticism and scapegoating being over the top. You should be embarrassed.

 

 

 

I am, I really am. Thanks for making me see the error of my ways. Ever thought of being a therapist? 

11 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

As I said earlier, if you play Tino and it means Trippier's the player that stays back in the 3 (as has been the case every time Tino's come on) then of course you can justify it - Trippier's the top assister in the league, you want him getting forward. You can argue that you just get Tino to stay back instead, but all we know is that we haven't seen us set up like that yet.

So change the system so we can accommodate two fullbacks. Virtually every other team in the league manages it - Liverpool play with Trent and Robertson, and last time I looked they were pretty fucking good!

No one is holding a gun to Eddie’s head telling him he has to play a lopsided formation, with Burn dropping into a 3 to allow Trippier to get forward. It’s his system. And it currently doesn’t work! So change the fucking system. 
When Tino was starting games, the world didn’t end. In fact we looked more balanced and better defensively than we do now. We’re not suggesting some wild, experimental setup that’s never been seen before. We’ve seen it, and it worked. That’s why we’re so incredulous at this predictable clown show we’re being served up.