Abacus

34 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Bad luck used in for a decade in a season?....Clearly haven't been around NUFC for long. We are the MASTERS of "bad luck". A chance for glory comes our way and thers always a monumental f**k up that comes our way. 

Sadly, or happily, I've been around NUFC for a long time. I've not seen any combination of shit luck like this before.

And I say this having still enjoyed an amazing European adventure, two decent cup runs and still  the chance of a crack at some sort of European football next season.

This season is one of what ifs, and as they say, it's the hope that kills you.

8 minutes ago, joeyt said:

People seem determined to find a reason to really hate him

 

He shouldn't have been betting on football but  as has been mentioned before you're giving young lads millions of pounds and surrounding them with constant betting adverts.

 

As far as we know he stopped betting on football immediately after hearing he was under investigation. A young lad, moving to a new country, not knowing the language and suddenly being banned from his profession for a number of months. He's flawed just like every human but he deserves sympathy.

 

If he's continued to bet after the investigation or bet on games he's been involved in then I think it's a different story but the outrage people seem determined to level towards him seems completely unnecessary at this stage

Yeah, I think most people are just frustrated with the way the season has gone and need someone to blame.

I know it's a forum, but I don't know any of his own circumstances and I'm not prepared to throw him under the bus.

Howe will know more than us and has asked us to back him, which is good enough for me.

And, sorry if this sounds naive, but with Howe sometimes you just need to trust someone who has been working his arse off to turn things around for us since day 1.

At least we've probably used up all our bad luck for a decade this season already.

And, re the surgery, I think in a lot of ways I'd be less worried about him coming back from it a different player, so hopefully he can keep his morale up during the lay off. Not only have ACL treatments come on in leaps and bounds but he's never been one to rely on explosive pace in the first place, but more on his intelligence and positioning.

(Anxiously awaits news of a freak brain injury on his way to the hospital.)

14 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Did you magically forget he was out for some time, resting and rehabbing? People are going on here like he played every single match this season on a torn ACL. 
 

for the millionth time the doctors at club and outside the club cleared him to play. Scans revealed he had healed. 

As far as I know, the first injury was pure bad luck, but then it wasn't picked up properly for a couple of games which wasn't great, that's all agreed.

There was a period of rest and rehab after what's been described as a marginal call to go that way. And then it was 'healed', but with continuing scans which all said he was OK to carry on playing.

So it was presumably just another piece of pure bad luck that he got another completely unrelated injury in the exact same place. If that's what the position is, why has Howe now come out saying the decision for him to play was wrong with hindsight?

NB if you think I'm coming at this from a position of complete medical ignorance, you should be aware that in my teens I watched multiple episodes of Dougie Howser MD, and followed this up in later life with a refresher course by watching House, until it got silly.

1 minute ago, Cf said:

Howe's comments though are a little more fanning the flames than we've come to expect. 

 

"There was conflicting advice from specialists as to whether surgery was required or not. Between the player and our medical team we decided to proceed without and monitor the situation as time went on. In hindsight surgery might have been the better choice but it wasn't a clear cut decision".

 

Done. 

If that's what happened, I think that's what Howe has to say rather than keep this in-house. It would only take one specialist or Botman himself to come out and deny this version of events for the whole thing to come tumbling down.

I guess the thing here is that, if, with hindsight, it was the wrong call that they do learn from this. Maybe it was a coin toss decision that could have gone the right way and everyone would have been congratulating themselves, but from the outside it does seem a gamble in retrospect.

Incidentally, if the advice was to rest to avoid surgery, maybe he should have just actually rested instead of playing professional football repeatedly.

3 hours ago, andyc35i said:

Can’t agree with that at all. They’re both clearly top quality players and by far and away the most talented in the team. Two players can’t carry a side alone and you need different skills to complement them and get the best out of their talent. I’m pretty sure Haaland wouldn’t get anywhere near the amount of goals he does if he played for us and De Byrune just wouldn’t look as good. 

And also, leaving aside that he's a Brazil regular and all, there wouldn't be all this noise around him (Klopp apparently wanting him etc) unless big clubs weren't actively trying to unsettle him.  Can't think of a more important player for us, for what he brings both on and off the pitch.

4 minutes ago, gbandit said:

NUFC buy the station, and the whole metro line. Rename it the NUFC express and all revenue goes towards FFP. Rename St. James’ metro the Saudi Dreamland Station and turn it into a mini theme park with rollercoasters that take you into the Gallowgate stadium. Price for a ticket on the Gallowgate coaster, £200 a pop. Solve two problems in one fell swoop 

Not sure the Saudi Dreamland Station would want rollercoasters going to the gallowgate for branding reasons.

But divert the rollercoaster to the newly sponsored Middle East Stand and Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt. 

4 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

People always say this, but in my experience it was always busy at rush hour. Not massively, but like 50 people or so getting on/off when I used to use it. 

 

 

 

Get all 50 of them new jobs in Beamish.

I see the arguments to move but I'm not convinced by them, personally.

Matchday revenue is one thing, but overshadowed by other types of income. And having an 80,000 stadium which isn't filled doesn't do much more for matchday income either.

For all that FFP holds us back right now, it could well be temporary. There's been a lot of noise about how clubs are being forced to sell home grown players because of it, but to me that's nothing compared to it forcing a move from a historic stadium that most people love.

If we can expand SJP to c.65,000, have it reliably filled and retain / build on the atmosphere that makes the place special, all the better.

Sponsor a new stand, have some nice new plush corporate areas for business income, have better merch, food and drink by all means, those detract nothing so that's the way to go for me.

If there's a points deduction for Chelsea, I wonder when this would take effect?

You'd imagine if it's this season, it would scupper them big style for their league placing and therefore put them in a spot for FFP in the summer. Another club that might start to challenge it?

30 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Fundamentally if you have owners that are willing to sustain losses and continue to invest what’s the problem? Uber, Facebook, Amazon etc. did that for years. 
 

Leicester can only be a competitive team in the PL sustainably if they are in the CL more often than not. Thats not fair.  If their owners want to bankroll them (pegged to a European or division limit) what’s wrong with that? If I was a gazillionaire and wanted to open a supermarket chain. I could invest as long as it took to catch Tesco and co.  

I suppose the problem is that Uber, Facebook, Amazon etc all wrecked the markets they were in and upset the established order, wrecked things along the way, became effective monopolies themselves and are hardly paragons of virtue either.

I'm not personally disagreeing with you at all, by the way, the reverse in fact. Just pointing out the devil's advocate position that no form of control can be good in the long run.

Although in counter to my own devils advocate position I'd say every market needs a disruptor, or the ability to have one, or we're stuck forever in a situation of permanent market dominance as we have now with ridiculous coefficients as rewards for success etc.

37 minutes ago, FloydianMag said:

I’d heard that, is there any hard evidence to support the claims?

I'd seen that multiple times in the press, Daily Mail, Mirror etc.

Here's how the Times reported it back in 2020;

Rivals to Liverpool and Manchester United are up in arms after the two clubs appeared to be given special access to vet candidates to be the Premier League’s chief executive.

The recruitment process to find the person to succeed Richard Scudamore was run by a nominations committee headed by Bruce Buck, the Chelsea chairman, with Burnley’s chairman Mike Garlick and Leicester City’s chief executive Susan Whelan also involved.

It has now emerged that Liverpool and Manchester United met at least three candidates — Susanna Dinnage, who pulled out of the appointment, the NBC executive Dave Howe, who appears to have been vetoed from taking up the post, and David Pemsel, who withdrew after allegations about his private life.

The meetings are understood to have taken place before any decisions were made by the nominations committee.

The special treatment for United and Liverpool has caused widespread resentment with one club source saying the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur and Manchester City were especially aggrieved.

The Premier League said it did not comment on appointment processes, but it is understood they are confident there was appropriate involvement for all clubs.

The Times revealed last month that Howe, the son of the late English football coach Don Howe, had been close to getting the job after being interviewed last May.

Howe, who has a degree in German and French and was a leading executive for NBC in the United States, ticked many boxes. But, according to the New York Times, after meeting Liverpool and United executives he was then told he had not got the job — and despite Liverpool reportedly approving of him.

Liverpool and United also met Dinnage before her appointment in November 2018 — she pulled out the following month. It was not until February that United’s chief executive Ed Woodward and Crystal Palace’s chairman Steve Parish were added to the nominations committee.

There also appears to be no explanation why Liverpool were given the opportunity to meet prospective candidates. Richard Masters, who had held the role on an interim basis for more than a year, was eventually given the job.

Good work in approving that Everton takeover, PL.

777 seem perfectly above board and the model of how all owners should be.

Well, aside from all the allegations over them and the previous convictions of their founder.

48 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t but you get the point. It was a genuine ‘do you even know me?’ moment. 
 

Like if I needed shoes and SD was the only place to buy shoes. I would walk home barefoot. 
 

Since he’s left I’ve softened my stance on him and his businesses.  As an owner he was awful and saw the club decline almost irreconcilably. But he could’ve been a little worse and more vindictive. I guess. And Flannels is canny with a sale. 

I know, it just made me laugh man.

I haven't softened my stance to him at all, though. Even things like putting Bruce on that rolling contract meaning he'd get a whopping payout still annoy me. But hey, he's old news and hopefully that's where he stays, which I guess is where you're coming from.

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

My wife once bought me something from SD and I was so angry.

 

For a non-football fan it's hard to understand. As a football fan, that was a red-card offence.

Do you generally have a red/ yellow card system in place for domestic situations? 

I certainly approve, but no doubt the wife would get VAR involved to point out that thing ten years ago.

And this is what football's become. I expect a new terrace ambulance chant;

You're going down with a claim for da-ma-ges!

(and repeat)

He's had long running disputes with sports brands who don't want their wares sold in his junk shops, who presumably feel they'd devalue their assets by being associated with his cut-price flea market.

In this case, though, it seems he's suing Newcastle rather than Adidas, claiming we have abused our "dominant market position" by telling them to do one.

Well, I for one would proudly wear a brand new kit with a giant "70% discount" sticker stuck on it and I'm sure m'learned friends would agree.

12 hours ago, FloydianMag said:

Leicester charged by PL for FFP breaches.

 

https://x.com/bbcsport/status/1770878466528813256?s=46&t=RaLdCRuzyWBbm603Y3eUgg

This is another example of where it's all a mess.

Leicester potentially in breach of the rules (disputed) and so face a points deduction next season and/or selling players if promoted to the PL.

If not promoted, the points deduction could then also be carried over next season into the Championship. However, this jurisdiction by the PL to impose that is also unclear and also being disputed.

Let's say Leicester are likely lose the first part of the dispute, but win the second. It would almost make sense for them to not get promoted and drop out of the promotion slots, as they would not then face a points deduction in the EFL.

What does this mean for sporting integrity and for their fans? Or even the perception that they deliberately missed out on promotion?

Not that any of this is likely to be concluded on until next season anyway, at which point you'd open up a whole new can of worms.

I get why a lot of people want some form of financial control for good reasons (and bad). But whatever way you look at it this looks like something designed and implemented by the Chuckle Brothers.

2 hours ago, Erikse said:

 

I mean, I believe you, but did they really tell you all this without even telling you whether the injury was related, which is kind of the main part, and is the one thing that will definetly be known to everyone anyways? I guess we know now from the Botman post.

 

 

 

Well, I thought that at first, especially when it was described as a fresh injury.

But I suppose that even if it's a recurrence /worsening of the same injury that it could well be the case that a majority of them thought surgery wouldn't be required, that still needn't mean they were wrong at the time based on what they knew then.

I'm not sure you could ignore the balance of opinion and chloroform him into hospital Mr T style. Even if that later then turned out to have been the right call with hindsight.

Anyway, a horrible long lay off for him mentally as well as physically.

I guess the one thing about any long term impacts here is that at his best he always played with his head, compensating for a slight like of pace to get his positioning right, and hopefully that shouldn't be affected.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that it's shite for him, for us and the club, so he'd better come back rebuilt like RoboCop.

4 hours ago, Paully said:

Live on SSN at 1.30pm

He'll probably accidentally swallow the microphone and be out for 6 months. Howe to blame.

If it's a fresh injury, as Hope says, does that mean it's not a recurrence of the original one? I.e. not something that's down to the medical Department?

Perhaps I'm not understanding this properly though.

39 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Don't think Pardew managed Schar.

I've heard players talk about Bruce - mixed reviews

Yeah, it was Bruce I was talking about there re Schar. 

16 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You do know HBA played under Bruce right? 

 

Man management seemed to be one thing Pardew was decent at and is probably one of the main reasons he had a decent career.

Yeah, I'd forgotten about that till Optimistic Nut pointed it out.

You may be right re man management, but only with certain players - pretty sure Schar and Longstaff couldn't stand him at our place, for example.

If I'm following all of this correctly, so as not to inconvenience commuters, season ticket holders, students, planners, architectural buffs and conservationists the only viable solution is to take SJP, the road, the Metro station and Leazes Terrace all together all brick by brick to Beamish, whilst we use the new space in town to build a gigantic underground go-karting rink for Rihanna.

17 minutes ago, Paully said:

Bruce by a mile for me as most despised NUFC manager.

 

His constant belittling of NUFC, constant praise for Ashley, constant digs at Rafa (not forgetting his disgusting dig at Howe), constant digs at our fans and social media, using his bellend of a son to fire shots at us non-stop, getting his media mates to hammer our fanbase and that’s without mentioning the utter shite he served up on the pitch. The last five months under Rafa, we were a joy to watch and had a solid defence. We’d have probably been relegated if it wasn’t for Dubravka and Maxi in 19-20 and Wilson and Willock in 20-21.

 

He’d have been gone well before he was finally binned if Covid hadn’t of appeared. No way he’d have survived at SJP with his turgid, shite football and his digs at our fans (albeit he probably would have bottled saying them if we were in the ground still).

 

TOSSER!

It all comes to something when we even agree with the mackems about something.

His excuse then? Because he wasn't from Sunderland.

His excuse with us? Because he wasn't from Spain.