TheDarkKnight

Totally. And also, ten Hag doesn't want to sell McTominay. That adds another nuance to the detractors. Norwich fans have said that Billy Gilmour is a League 2 player, just because he didn't come in and play like peak Zidane. Forgetting for a second that he was 20 years old and never had a season of regular football under his belt. (They said the same about a certain Harry Kane. Wonder what happened to him...) (Also, from a neutral who watched a lot of Norwich matches last season, he was their best midfielder) Howe has proven himself. He deserves trust from the Newcastle fans.

I remember a certain Almirón being derided and mocked, even by Jack Grealish. Almirón has been superb this season. As it's been said, unfashionable players can contribute more than big name stars. Fred and McTominay may be unfashionable, etc, but they both give their heart for the badge. Unlike Workd Cup winner and World class midfielder Paul Pogba who gave nothing and contributed zero. No one would claim that Jordan Henderson was world class, but without him, Liverpool would not have won the trophies they have won under Klopp.

Exactly. I said that earlier. It's a counter-pressing technique. It prevents the player with the ball being closed down. But what do professional footballers and trained coaches know about the nuances of football.

Yes. I've seen that video. It was posted on Redcafe by a person who has an agenda against McTominay. The video was also created by a person who share the same agenda. There 20 outfield players on a finite field. If you think all 20 players are buzzing around for 90 minutes, attempting to find space... no. Doesn't happen. I watched the England game just yesterday. Rice and Henderson were sometimes in the line between their team mate and the opposition. Does it mean that they hide? It happens with every player in every match. Does McTominay come come deep for the ball? Not really, but neither does Rice, etc. If a player hides from the ball it would surely reflect on their average touches per match. McTominay got just as touches of the ball as Fred, last season. That in itself debunks the "hides from the ball" rhetoric.

Nowhere near Darren Fletcher. People forget just how good Darren Fletcher was. He was in the EPL 2009/10 team of the year and was the closest thing to Roy Keane that Manchester United have had. In that season he was amazing. I remember an Arsenal match where he pretty much dominated their midfield single-handed. Sadly, illness robbed Fletcher of what would have been his peak years.

I get what you're saying, but I detest the term "hiding". Some players are just more intelligent than others. It had nothing to do with hiding or bravery, etc. A Good example Is James Milner. Not the greatest player in the world, but his football IQ was absolute top notch. Yeah. When McTominay was keeping Casemiro out of the team his high press and tackling were superb. Is he going to open up defences? Definitely not. But a team is like a jigsaw puzzle, you need different shapes and sizes in order to complete the puzzle. I remember David Batty back in the day. I doubt he had one assist in his whole career, but he was invaluable as a destroyer and a recycler.

Yeah. Great example. Xavi and Iniesta and Zinedine were three others. Neither blessed with pace, but it always seemed like they had an eternity on the ball. It's like they have an in-built radar. It's a skill. Yeah, Scholes was definitely another.

Well, you've seen him more than I have, so I can't claim to be an expert. But I would say that he isn’t hiding, either. Some players have different abilities. Spacial awareness is an ability that you can't teach. Yes, you can study videos, etc, but it's akin to a person playing Medal of Honour, etc. Put them put on the front-line, they'll crumble. Look at Haaland. People might think he scores so many because of his finishing or his physique or his pace. It isn't. His movement is incredible. Watch him, he's always 5 seconds ahead of the defenders. Look at Oliver Burke. He has the same physique as Haaland. He's just as fast. But when Burke steps out on a pitch his brain goes out to lunch. Spacial awareness is the same as movement. Midfielders like Pirlo, Scholes and Busquets, etc, have/had so much time on the ball because their innate movement is incredible. McTominay's spacial awarenes has improved under EtH, but it's never going to be amazing. I think we can all agree that Erik ten Hag is a good manager. He doesn't want to sell McTominay. There's reasons for that. The main one is that McTominay can be trusted.

From a purely psychological perspective, it's fascinating: One "bright spark" Manchester United fan says that "Scott McTominay hides from the ball", next thing we know, a few other people say it, then a few more people, until it becomes the popular thing to say. Then it grows on social media. Before you know, even fans of other clubs are saying it. It's like people have no will or no mind of their own. lol. All it is is lazy analysis and parroting pop-references with the hope that you come off as being smart and knowledgeable. No professional footballer actively "hides" from the ball. It's an absurd thing to suggest. Especially one who plays in the best league in the world. A thinking fan would analyse Scott McTominay and make assertions that his spacial awareness isn't the best. That's not the same as "hiding". If he truly did hide from the ball EtH would've cast him into the reserves from the first moment that he walked into the club, as before EtH even coached his first competitive match, he sat down with the entire previous season's worth of matches and watched every minute of every match. He's that meticulous. McTominay has played 30 matches In all competitions this season. So yeah, social media is the new home of mass hysteria. It's clear that EtH doesn't want to sell him. If he did, McTominay would've left by now. So referring to him as a "cast off" isn't accurate, either. Also, I did say on my first post that he's a good finisher. He is. He's just playing too deep at Manchester United and in a role that put the shackles on him.

At least you're honest.

Yeah. That's an excellent point and one that I've often made. In previous generations youngers at Manchester United have had the likes of Keane, Bruce, Ince, Robson, Cantona, etc, to learn from, but the previous few generations of kids have had to learn on their feet. Pretty much why a few have went off the rails.

I actually don't want him to leave. In an ideal world he will unlock his potential and stay put and cement a place In the first XI.

Fred (who cost £50m) had on average of 61 touches/84% pass success rate per match last season. McTominay had 56 touches/86% pass success rate. Hardly much of a difference. As I said earlier, instead of using their own judgement and making up their own mind, people just come out with pop-culture references. It's easy. No thought involved.

Fair point. Physically he's a monster. He wins his fair share of ground duels and air duels, more than Longstaff does. He gets dribbled past less often than Longstaff. I'd say that his passing is better, too. He's also deceptively a really good dribbler. He would be an upgrade on Longstaff.

Very welcome. Yeah. It's a strange one. It just shows you how toxic and viral the net can be. One bright spark said that he "hides from the ball", next thing we know it's like a scene from "The Scarlett letter". Maybe he should wear a big red "H" on his shirt. As a Scotland fan, he's never really fluffed his lines at center back (in a back three) so I definitely trust him there. In midfield, we haven't really seen the best of him. Yeah. He isn't really an anchorman. His tackling is fine, but it's his general lack of defensive positioning that lets him down. I do think he's better going towards the opposition goal rather than his own. I'd say that he's an old school box-to-box player. Interesting. I agree to some extent, but even now, every top team plays with anchorman (in a single or double-pivot). Bayern Munich with Kimmich, Barcelona with Busquets, Manchester United with Casemiro, etc. Then you think of players like Kate, Makelele, Dunga, Deschamps, Lambert, etc. A midfield, more than any position, has to be nuanced and be varied. Look what happened when Sven tried to squeeze Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard into the same team. Chaos. I'm not going to lie, Scott McTominay is a strange player. But there is definitely a player in there. And he's certainly EPL class. He strikes me as a confidence player. Frankly, if he were most players, and they received as much abuse as he gets, they would've blown a gasket and unleashed on the Manchester United fans. Players like Lingard, Ronaldo and Pogba deserve the crap that they took, as all three took the club and fans for a ride. McTominay has been dignified and professional throughout. He doesn't deserve the crap that he takes from keyboard warriors who talk like they have a UEFA Coaching badge. I don't think it's match going fans, though. He's also a manager's dream. He won't cause any fuss behind the scenes and he'll do his job. Tune in on Saturday and Tuesday, as we're playing Cyprus and Spain.

You forgot the variable. He has a player who has 5 European Cup winner's medals in front of him.

I don't. It's a nuanced one, though. I'm primarily a Scotland fan. I hate watching him on the bench. So if moving to Newcastle and if being coached by Howe can unlock his potential, then l wouldn't mind him going. There's definitely a player in there. For five years he's outshone a player who cost £50m and a Brazilian international (Fred).

Thanks. Such a nice welcome! Definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the Brentford debacle .

lol

Yeah. You could think of it as a revolutionary counter-pressing technique where he's marking an opposition player, basically stopping the opposition from pressing the man with the ball. Thank you.

Yeah. I read that. Interesting. The thing about McTominay is that he actually was keeping Casemiro out of the first XI at the start of the season, on merit. He was superb in that anchorman role. He looked motivated and his tackling and passing were spot on. So, he absolutely can play that role. The main that frustrates me about McTominay is that he needs a rocket lit under him. He plays better whilst angry, so, if you so buy him, Eddie Howe has to buy a comedian that specialises in "Mother" jokes. So before each game get the comedian to enrage Scott and watch him go! I wish he had some of what Darren Fletcher had. The season Fletcher was in the EPL team of the season (09/10) he was like the Tazmanian Devil.

Thank you. Agreed. Massive crossroads. And who knows, he might improve with more responsibility on his shoulders. The main thing is that McTominay is not an anchorman. He doesn't have the defensive instincts. And yet he's played in that position since he broke through. Yeah. Funny that you mention Rice. There passing numbers aren't all that different (Rice does have a slight better success rate). As I said, I wouldn't really put any stock in the opinion of online Manchester United fans. They just like to moan, especially about their own players.

Because he's playing In a double-pivot. In 5 years he's scored 16 goals. In comparison, Fred, who has usually played alongside McTominay in the pivot, has 9.

Cool. Thanks. Newcastle are a top club, so I didn't think there would be an issue, but it never hurts to ask. In fairness, most teams' forums are cool with rival fans chiming in. The only real trouble that I had was in the Brentford forum. I think it's fair to say they don't like outsiders. I even got into a debate with the admin, I asked him why there's a choice to choose with team you support when you register. His reply was "So we can separate the idiots from the Brentford fans". Small club mentality. A bit of a "Deliverance" feel.

Hi all. Manchester United and Scotland fan here. Just signed up to give my honest assessment. I'm not entirely sure of your policy on members from rivals, so this might be my first and final post. McTominay isn't an anchorman (no 6). He is more like a box-to-box midfielder. These days midfielders are boxed in and told to do one specific job, so box-to-box midfielders are obsolete, which is one of the reasons why McTominay is so polarized. As for this "he hides from the ball" thing. It's been said for about 3 years and I'm still not clear what it means. How can a player hide from the ball? Sneak off and sit on the bench, without anyone noticing? Hide behind the goals? One Manchester United fan came out with that line and it just snowballed into a ball the size of a glacier. Just yesterday, he made himself available dozens of times, and he wasn't picked out. It's hardly his fault if his team-mates don't pass to him. Besides, let me give you an example of the general online Manchester United fan. On RedCafe (their no 1 site) they have a thread dedicated to Frenkie De Jong. It has close to 2k posts of United fans salivating over him and fawning over him. Even though he is a Barcelona player and will probably never join Manchester United. On RedCafe there's also individual threads dedicated to every squad member. Each thread is full of Manchester United fans criticising and tearing apart their own players. They are the most toxic group of fans. They usually have a couple of scapegoats at a time. Back in the day it was Fletcher and O'Shea. The previous ones were Lingard and Pogba. The recent scapegoats are McTominay and Maguire. When those two leave, the scapegoats will probably be Fred and Antony. Every player gets it in the neck, though, even Bruno and Rashford. So I wouldn't give any credence to the general opinion of United fans. They treat players of other clubs with more respect than their own. McTominay's attributes: opening his legs and running with the ball. Shooting. Keeping it simple and recycling the ball. Tackling and his physicality. Plus he's played at the back from Scotland, so he's versatile. In 2019 in the Quarter finals against Barcelona he won motm. Not bad for someone who apparently hides from the ball As far as "Scott McTominay hides from the ball". It reminds me of what Joseph Goebbels said that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth. https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/scott-mctominay-wins-man-of-the-match-award-after-champions-league-display-against-barcelona