FA 'improves' drugs testing procedures.

[polpolpol]

Spanish football in general cannot be considered in a positive light after the Puerto case ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_case ) and the lack of political will to tackle the case is indicative of interests more significant that cycling teams in the suppression of the case.

 

that whole case was handled in a pretty disgusting way by the authorities, i mean the doctor himself went on the record and admitted that he worked with several spanish football teams and tennis players, yet they've never even investigated those matters (the cycling part was pretty ridiculous as well, when you find a shitload of plastic bags full of blood and a list of names just how difficult can it be to verify whether its their blood or not?). probably has something to do with political ties.

 

doping controls in football (and most other team sports) are generally a joke in comparison with the controls in athletics/cycling/other endurance sports, and for instance dozens of cyclists have never tested positive but admitted to doping or got caught in other ways. i'm pretty sure clubs consider every possible method to maximize the performance and physical capabilities of their players and doping is surely one of the best of those, especially with the loose nature of controls.

 

Puerto was just too big a case, I agree that Spain lacked the stomach to make public quite how deep the scandal went. The problem was that it wasn't illegal under criminal law at the time, though obviously it broke the various sporting authorities' rules. That meant it was easy to force the Guardia Civil had to drop its investigation. I particularly like the fact that everyone tried to claim they just paid him all those 1000's of Euro for 'advice', despite the fact that Dr. Fuentes is a gynaecologist. ( http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/10/news/ullrich-fuentes-ties-documented_99309 ).

[James]

http://www.ergogenics.org/484.html

 

The above is a summary of a report by French paper Le Monde, dated 2006. It includes an interview with the Doctor (Fuentes) involved in Operacion Puerto, otherwise the biggest doping bust of all time.

 

What it says:

 

Fuentes insists he has worked with top sportspeople from the fields of football, tennis, athletics, handball and boxing.

 

With football, he says he worked with Spanish First and Second Division sides, sometimes directly with players, other times passing on scientific info to other team doctors. He was team doctor at Las Palmas when Barcelona and another Italian club tried to sign him.

 

He says he will not provide evidence against these sports as he's had death threats, and certain sports are to powerful to take on. However he reckons there is so much secrecy going on that if it came out, heads of sporting organisations would lose their jobs.

 

Le Monde obtained two A4 sheets that came from Fuentes Las Palmas apartment. They claim it is a training programme for Barcelona. It resembles training programmes used as evidence against cycling teams.with symbols known to represent reccommended dates for usage of steroids, insulin, and epo. The document also states that the primary target is the 2005/06 Champions League.

 

The whistleblower on the drugs clinic claims a Real Madrid player was there the same time he was.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Obviously it is all newspaper talk, but its a good example of the type of story that makes it out in the French media (i.e. the only consistent anti-drugs press really out there), but doesn't reach our ears.

[polpolpol]

There are two ways of looking at doping, the investigative stuff mentioned thus far here (which, I am aware,  often looks like a paranoid construct) but there is also the empirical side of looking at the differences in the qualities of modern players and styles of play compared to previous generations. I think the number of players – in Iberia especially – who have transcended the natural restrictions of a small body type is quite uncanny. Football must be the only (quasi)invasion game which is reversing the trend towards always-bigger players in its most modern incarnations.

[gekkotime]

Spanish football in general cannot be considered in a positive light after the Puerto case ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_case ) and the lack of political will to tackle the case is indicative of interests more significant that cycling teams in the suppression of the case.

 

that whole case was handled in a pretty disgusting way by the authorities, i mean the doctor himself went on the record and admitted that he worked with several spanish football teams and tennis players, yet they've never even investigated those matters (the cycling part was pretty ridiculous as well, when you find a shitload of plastic bags full of blood and a list of names just how difficult can it be to verify whether its their blood or not?). probably has something to do with political ties.

 

doping controls in football (and most other team sports) are generally a joke in comparison with the controls in athletics/cycling/other endurance sports, and for instance dozens of cyclists have never tested positive but admitted to doping or got caught in other ways. i'm pretty sure clubs consider every possible method to maximize the performance and physical capabilities of their players and doping is surely one of the best of those, especially with the loose nature of controls.

 

Puerto was just too big a case, I agree that Spain lacked the stomach to make public quite how deep the scandal went. The problem was that it wasn't illegal under criminal law at the time, though obviously it broke the various sporting authorities' rules. That meant it was easy to force the Guardia Civil had to drop its investigation. I particularly like the fact that everyone tried to claim they just paid him all those 1000's of Euro for 'advice', despite the fact that Dr. Fuentes is a gynaecologist. ( http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/10/news/ullrich-fuentes-ties-documented_99309 ).

 

imo the uci/wada could've/should've asked the implicated riders to produce dna samples to clear their names although in legal terms that might've been an intrusion of privacy (i'm not really familiar with the legal aspects of the case). but yeah, the excuses were pretty lame, especially in the case of basso and ullrich.

 

as for the physical development of young players, afaik they aren't subject to doping controls at all, so the empirical aspects you mentioned might suggest that there are doping programs in place at certain clubs. i remember reading about a canadian mountainbiker who admitted to using epo since the age of 16, so it's not like doping at younger ages is unheard of.

 

all in all, the general opinion, which seems to be that there's no widespread doping in football bc it's a technique based sport, sounds quite short sighted.

[James]

all in all, the general opinion, which seems to be that there's no widespread doping in football bc it's a technique based sport, sounds quite short sighted.

 

Yep, as I say to anyone who gives that argument:

 

Better fitness = More time on the ball + better concentration + better control of body = better technique.

 

So doping can improve all aspects of any sportsman's game, not just endurance sports.

[polpolpol]

Real Madrid are looking to tighten up the doping controls in Spain. This is symptomatic of the hardening of positions regarding Barcalona's spectacular success at the moment. It looks like Spanish clubs are moving away from the belief that they can compete with Barcelona in the doping arms race to the realisation that the La Maisa academy is the 'Star Wars' programme of doping. Here is the gist of it, from another forum:

 

“According to Marca, Real Madrid will probably demand a more rigid antidoping policy in La Liga. http://www.marca.com/2011/03/14/futb...300061219.html

Currently, there is only one test for matchday, one player each team (just one match for matchday, not every single match). No blood test. No EPO or HGH detection. No tests on saturday's matches, just sunday's ones. In theory, it is possible to do additional tests any day, but that has never been done. You must be the most stupid footballer to get caught doped if you know when you can be tested, you know they can't catch you for using EPO or HGH, statistically just 2 players of your team are tested every season and there is not blood test.”

 

“About the Barça's doctors, one of them is Ramón Segura, who was Guardiola's personal doctor when he was tested positive and is related to De Boers' and Meca's positives as well.”

 

The fact that there aren't blood, EPO or HGH tests is incredible, generation 2 doping is still about gains in endurance, but particularly about gains in recovery time. The kind of thing that allows Barcelona to run around like they do without suffering the expected level of injury or fatigue.

 

Other stuff:

 

France doped in '98:

http://blogs.hereisthecity.com/2010/08/26/france_doctor_alleges_1998_world_cup_winners_had_blood_test_anom/

 

Parma were loaded with EPO in the 90's:

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/112713-la-polemica-por-el-doping-tambien-estallo-en-parma

 

Doping suspected in Germany:

http://www.german-times.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1834&Itemid=74

 

And it happens at lower tiers in England:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/the-drugs-do-work-and-thats-why-players-cant-say-no-2577489.html

 

The last two are pretty interesting, It seems that the implicit contract between the players and the clubs is that the players don't ask, and the clubs don't tell, although people like Wenger have been saying for years "that some clubs dope players without their knowledge." You can see why this is the only effective way in a game like football where a lot of players are rejected by the clubs, and could be considered prime candidates for whistle-blowing.

[Taylor Swift]

What are the testing procedures for the CL? I'm pretty sure it'll be stricter than it is in La Liga.

[Taylor Swift]

And what about the WC? Most of the top players played at the WC.

[polpolpol]

What are the testing procedures for the CL? I'm pretty sure it'll be stricter than it is in La Liga.

 

Maybe slightly, they say 1200 tests, but with 74 teams in the CL alone, each playing at least 2 games - on average, about 5 games - plus the Euro cup, you are looking at about 2 players per game being tested. That is more a sign that La Liga is very loose in its testing:

 

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/antidoping/news/newsid=1601485.html

 

But still, this is only a urine test, and it seems that they are only interested in finding fairly simple steriods: stuff which is broken down in the body within 48 hours or so anyway. So you have a tiny chance of being tested, and it is only a problem if you've taken certain things right before the game. Note also that TUE's are mentioned. I think it is about 50% of tennis and cycling pro's who have sanctioned TUE's for respiriatory aids: 

 

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/AntiDoping/uefaorg/Anti-doping/93/79/49/937949_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

edit - As for the world cup, FIFA's position - well, Blatter's, which is effectively FIFA's - is that there is no problem in football regarding doping.  552 tests at the world cup, including 260 announced ones in pre-tournament training. 48 group games plus 16 knock out:

 

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/southafrica2010/news/newsid=1280619/index.html

 

The FIFA guidelines are just that there can be tests, but they dont legislate about what has to be tested for:

 

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/medical/6.17.%20fifa%20doping%20control%20regulations_1533.pdf