Dave Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Great post Peter. Can I say though, that just as you acknowledge you cannot represent all NUFC fans, neither can dissenters represent all members of this forum. There are many people here who support the NUSC as well as those who don't. That's the nature of an internet forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 And besides, you don't email the Conservative Party because they don't agree with your views do you? This is pretty much the same thing, if you like it join, if you dont like it don't join, I was just giving my reasons for not wanting to join, it doesn't really matter if they read it or not. You might if you were a Tory. You are a Newcastle fan. s*** analogy. James is only making an observation, and it’s a valid one if true. Why should he contact NUSC instead of posting on here? No obligation to do anything, but I don't understand why it would be better to do it this way. NUSC are easily contactable and (as far as I can tell) actively seeking to include the view of as many fans as possible. Why not try and make it better? Correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think you've made my case in point by replying to my post though, its like I can't have an opinion on NUSC without someone posting that I'm wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Nice one PP. It shouldn't be an issue that NUSC started as a protest group or whatnot, it's how many representative bodies come into being. IMO it will grow and flourish and I can see it having a place on the board and maybe one day a financial stake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think you've made my case in point by replying to my post though, its like I can't have an opinion on NUSC without someone posting that I'm wrong. Eh? It's a mature and reasoned response to your post. What more do you want like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Great post Peter. Can I say though, that just as you acknowledge you cannot represent all NUFC fans, neither can dissenters represent all members of this forum. There are many people here who support the NUSC as well as those who don't. That's the nature of an internet forum. Totally and utterly agree and I was trying to make that point in my post, just not very well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think you've made my case in point by replying to my post though, its like I can't have an opinion on NUSC without someone posting that I'm wrong. Eh? It's a mature and reasoned response to your post. What more do you want like? I didn't say it wasn't a mature and reasoned response, my argument is if you say anything negative about the NUSC they'll be a counter post straight away that makes you feel you're wrong unless you follow the belief that the NUSC is great. Which is a shame, as it rubs me the wrong way as if I'm being forced to think they're some great group working to better Newcastle United, when as of yet I haven't seen anything to suggest it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think you've made my case in point by replying to my post though, its like I can't have an opinion on NUSC without someone posting that I'm wrong. Eh? It's a mature and reasoned response to your post. What more do you want like? I didn't say it wasn't a mature and reasoned response, my argument is if you say anything negative about the NUSC they'll be a counter post straight away that makes you feel you're wrong unless you follow the belief that the NUSC is great. Which is a shame, as it rubs me the wrong way as if I'm being forced to think they're some great group working to better Newcastle United, when as of yet I haven't seen anything to suggest it is. What are they doing then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I have never been one to shout from the rooftops about how good NUSC are. They have had their problems, with the likes of the bloke on the telly going on about spoiling Bobby Robson day. But they seem to be trying to be more than a one trick pony. Its still early days for them, and I will be watching to see how things develop. Supporters do deserve to have representation and NUSC have helped the lads who were randomly picked out at the Boro and charged with racial abuse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well seems I'm in the minority here so I'm expecting a backlash... But from what I've seen so far NUSC has done more damage then good and only help reinforces the SSN belief that the club is run by the impatient voice of the fans. Demanding to be on the boardroom Protesting Generally all the things I hate to see being played up infront of the SSN cameras. OK, so they say they've changed, and when I see the change, I'll reconsider my opinion. But I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for having an opinion when I haven't seen anything to show otherwise yet - roadshows or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think you've made my case in point by replying to my post though, its like I can't have an opinion on NUSC without someone posting that I'm wrong. Eh? It's a mature and reasoned response to your post. What more do you want like? I didn't say it wasn't a mature and reasoned response, my argument is if you say anything negative about the NUSC they'll be a counter post straight away that makes you feel you're wrong unless you follow the belief that the NUSC is great. Which is a shame, as it rubs me the wrong way as if I'm being forced to think they're some great group working to better Newcastle United, when as of yet I haven't seen anything to suggest it is. Firstly, apologies in advance for replying to the above, but why are you on an internet debating forum if you dont want the counter argument? If I posted on here and nobody replied then I wouldnt be chuffed thinking I was right, Id be pee'd off with the thought that nothing Id said affected someone enough to reply. So you dont see anything we've done as working to better Newcastle United? Just out of my post above: Al-together now campaign, SBR day, £3000 raised by NUFC fans and national coverage of all fans supporting one of the greats of English football. Honouring deceased players. Showing NUFC fans respect other fans and their loss (ie Hillsborough) Helping make the stewarding better. Just a few things that have already been mentioned but you didnt see those as working to better the football club? Out of interest what sort of things would we have to do to make you think that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well seems I'm in the minority here so I'm expecting a backlash... But from what I've seen so far NUSC has done more damage then good and only help reinforces the SSN belief that the club is run by the impatient voice of the fans. Demanding to be on the boardroom Protesting Generally all the things I hate to see being played up infront of the SSN cameras. OK, so they say they've changed, and when I see the change, I'll reconsider my opinion. But I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for having an opinion when I haven't seen anything to show otherwise yet - roadshows or not. When have we ever demanded to be on the board? and give one instance of the SSN comment, are you seriously suggesting that NUSC have stood in front of the cameras and shouted abuse, acted pissed up and generally done any of those things? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think you've made my case in point by replying to my post though, its like I can't have an opinion on NUSC without someone posting that I'm wrong. Eh? It's a mature and reasoned response to your post. What more do you want like? I didn't say it wasn't a mature and reasoned response, my argument is if you say anything negative about the NUSC they'll be a counter post straight away that makes you feel you're wrong unless you follow the belief that the NUSC is great. Which is a shame, as it rubs me the wrong way as if I'm being forced to think they're some great group working to better Newcastle United, when as of yet I haven't seen anything to suggest it is. Firstly, apologies in advance for replying to the above, but why are you on an internet debating forum if you dont want the counter argument? If I posted on here and nobody replied then I wouldnt be chuffed thinking I was right, Id be pee'd off with the thought that nothing Id said affected someone enough to reply So you dont see anything we've done as working to better Newcastle United? Just out of my post above: Al-together now campaign, SBR day, £3000 raised by NUFC fans and national coverage of all fans supporting one of the greats of English football. Honouring deceased players. Showing NUFC fans respect other fans and their loss (ie Hillsborough) Helping make the stewarding better. Just a few things that have already been mentioned but you didnt see those as working to better the football club? Out of interest what sort of things would we have to do to make you think that? No need to be sarky man, one reply would be valid, but everytime someone says anything against the NUSC there's the same counter post again and again, which seems a bit off. As for the things the NUSC have done, great, well done, some of those things I've done too and the club have also done during match days. They still don't out weight the negatives that you've done though. For me I'd have to see the NUSC do more for interclub relationships, battling for lower ticket prices, or free cup games for season ticket holders, raise valid counter arguments to suggested changes (which you seem good at) such as last year's seat relocation and price restructuring. Also putting some weight behind the Online Football Team would be pretty decent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well seems I'm in the minority here so I'm expecting a backlash... But from what I've seen so far NUSC has done more damage then good and only help reinforces the SSN belief that the club is run by the impatient voice of the fans. Demanding to be on the boardroom Protesting Generally all the things I hate to see being played up infront of the SSN cameras. OK, so they say they've changed, and when I see the change, I'll reconsider my opinion. But I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for having an opinion when I haven't seen anything to show otherwise yet - roadshows or not. When have we ever demanded to be on the board? and give one instance of the SSN comment, are you seriously suggesting that NUSC have stood in front of the cameras and shouted abuse, acted pissed up and generally done any of those things? You arranged a protest whcih will only attract the type of shameful appearances you get on SSN. Demand might have been the wrong word, but you requested for a seat in the boardroom when decisions were made in your open letter to Llambias/Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well seems I'm in the minority here so I'm expecting a backlash... But from what I've seen so far NUSC has done more damage then good and only help reinforces the SSN belief that the club is run by the impatient voice of the fans. Demanding to be on the boardroom Protesting Generally all the things I hate to see being played up infront of the SSN cameras. OK, so they say they've changed, and when I see the change, I'll reconsider my opinion. But I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for having an opinion when I haven't seen anything to show otherwise yet - roadshows or not. When have we ever demanded to be on the board? and give one instance of the SSN comment, are you seriously suggesting that NUSC have stood in front of the cameras and shouted abuse, acted pissed up and generally done any of those things? You arranged a protest whcih will only attract the type of shameful appearances you get on SSN. Demand might have been the wrong word, but you requested for a seat in the boardroom when decisions were made in your open letter to Llambias/Ashley. Shouldn't the supporters group have representation in the boardroom? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well seems I'm in the minority here so I'm expecting a backlash... But from what I've seen so far NUSC has done more damage then good and only help reinforces the SSN belief that the club is run by the impatient voice of the fans. Demanding to be on the boardroom Protesting Generally all the things I hate to see being played up infront of the SSN cameras. OK, so they say they've changed, and when I see the change, I'll reconsider my opinion. But I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for having an opinion when I haven't seen anything to show otherwise yet - roadshows or not. When have we ever demanded to be on the board? and give one instance of the SSN comment, are you seriously suggesting that NUSC have stood in front of the cameras and shouted abuse, acted pissed up and generally done any of those things? You arranged a protest whcih will only attract the type of shameful appearances you get on SSN. Demand might have been the wrong word, but you requested for a seat in the boardroom when decisions were made in your open letter to Llambias/Ashley. Did you attend that protest? Because it wasn't full of the socks in tracksuit pants, gormless arses who probably have never been inside the stadium lot that stand outside SJP every time David Craig turns up who are a million times more embarrassing than NUSC have ever been. (Sheesh I can't believe I am stood up defending NUSC to people). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well seems I'm in the minority here so I'm expecting a backlash... But from what I've seen so far NUSC has done more damage then good and only help reinforces the SSN belief that the club is run by the impatient voice of the fans. Demanding to be on the boardroom Protesting Generally all the things I hate to see being played up infront of the SSN cameras. OK, so they say they've changed, and when I see the change, I'll reconsider my opinion. But I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for having an opinion when I haven't seen anything to show otherwise yet - roadshows or not. When have we ever demanded to be on the board? and give one instance of the SSN comment, are you seriously suggesting that NUSC have stood in front of the cameras and shouted abuse, acted pissed up and generally done any of those things? You arranged a protest whcih will only attract the type of shameful appearances you get on SSN. Demand might have been the wrong word, but you requested for a seat in the boardroom when decisions were made in your open letter to Llambias/Ashley. Again though, you see that as a bad thing? asking for supporter representation at board level? the ability for the fans to have some say in the way the football club is ran? Which protest? you say "will only attract the type of shameful appearances on SSN" , surely if we'd done it and it had happened then you'd be able to refer to some specific shameful appearance because I cant remember seeing it. Im not even sure which protest we are supposed to have arranged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well seems I'm in the minority here so I'm expecting a backlash... But from what I've seen so far NUSC has done more damage then good and only help reinforces the SSN belief that the club is run by the impatient voice of the fans. Demanding to be on the boardroom Protesting Generally all the things I hate to see being played up infront of the SSN cameras. OK, so they say they've changed, and when I see the change, I'll reconsider my opinion. But I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for having an opinion when I haven't seen anything to show otherwise yet - roadshows or not. When have we ever demanded to be on the board? and give one instance of the SSN comment, are you seriously suggesting that NUSC have stood in front of the cameras and shouted abuse, acted pissed up and generally done any of those things? You arranged a protest whcih will only attract the type of shameful appearances you get on SSN. Demand might have been the wrong word, but you requested for a seat in the boardroom when decisions were made in your open letter to Llambias/Ashley. Again though, you see that as a bad thing? asking for supporter representation at board level? the ability for the fans to have some say in the way the football club is ran? Which protest? you say "will only attract the type of shameful appearances on SSN" , surely if we'd done it and it had happened then you'd be able to refer to some specific shameful appearance because I cant remember seeing it. Im not even sure which protest we are supposed to have arranged. I presumed he was referring to the rally at Grey's monument tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Well seems I'm in the minority here so I'm expecting a backlash... But from what I've seen so far NUSC has done more damage then good and only help reinforces the SSN belief that the club is run by the impatient voice of the fans. Demanding to be on the boardroom Protesting Generally all the things I hate to see being played up infront of the SSN cameras. OK, so they say they've changed, and when I see the change, I'll reconsider my opinion. But I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for having an opinion when I haven't seen anything to show otherwise yet - roadshows or not. When have we ever demanded to be on the board? and give one instance of the SSN comment, are you seriously suggesting that NUSC have stood in front of the cameras and shouted abuse, acted pissed up and generally done any of those things? You arranged a protest whcih will only attract the type of shameful appearances you get on SSN. Demand might have been the wrong word, but you requested for a seat in the boardroom when decisions were made in your open letter to Llambias/Ashley. Again though, you see that as a bad thing? asking for supporter representation at board level? the ability for the fans to have some say in the way the football club is ran? Which protest? you say "will only attract the type of shameful appearances on SSN" , surely if we'd done it and it had happened then you'd be able to refer to some specific shameful appearance because I cant remember seeing it. Im not even sure which protest we are supposed to have arranged. I presumed he was referring to the rally at Grey's monument tbh. The one against Everton yeah, and it was still a show for the cameras, still more drama. It may or may not have caused more instability, how would I know that, I'm not in the dressing room or the board room. As for a member in the boardroom, how would you influence change? What makes you think you'd be taken seriously when Ashley/Llambias how shown nothing my contempt for NUSC and at most points brushed/ignored contact from you? What qualifies you to question any changes made within the club? Do you not think it would slow decision making down even further? What sources do you have, if any, to base your decisions of action on? The media? Its those things I'm not sure about, its those things that, for me, still don't make the group stand out from any other set of Newcastle fans other then you might have a bit more organisation. Any action is still based on hearsay, instinct and perhaps emotions. EDIT: Also the boycotting of games that really doesn't sit well with me when its ultimately boycotting the support of the team. Any Boycotts should have been aimed at the club shops and Mike Ashley's shops, at no point should our support of the team be put to one side, even if it does mean a bit of money into Ashley's pockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Again though, you see that as a bad thing? asking for supporter representation at board level? the ability for the fans to have some say in the way the football club is ran? Which protest? you say "will only attract the type of shameful appearances on SSN" , surely if we'd done it and it had happened then you'd be able to refer to some specific shameful appearance because I cant remember seeing it. Im not even sure which protest we are supposed to have arranged. I presumed he was referring to the rally at Grey's monument tbh. Ahhh, so a rally which was designed to get the fans behind the team and one which you yourself attended and have confirmed was not shameful. Oh btw theres no shame in sticking up for the NUSC you know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Again though, you see that as a bad thing? asking for supporter representation at board level? the ability for the fans to have some say in the way the football club is ran? Which protest? you say "will only attract the type of shameful appearances on SSN" , surely if we'd done it and it had happened then you'd be able to refer to some specific shameful appearance because I cant remember seeing it. Im not even sure which protest we are supposed to have arranged. I presumed he was referring to the rally at Grey's monument tbh. Ahhh, so a rally which was designed to get the fans behind the team and one which you yourself attended and have confirmed was not shameful. Oh btw theres no shame in sticking up for the NUSC you know Nah, there was more than just me like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 As for a member in the boardroom, how would you influence change? What makes you think you'd be taken seriously when Ashley/Llambias how shown nothing my contempt for NUSC and at most points brushed/ignored contact from you? What qualifies you to question any changes made within the club? Do you not think it would slow decision making down even further? Any member in the boardroom would influence change, thats why they're there. If decisions were being made which were to the detriment of the football club then the board would know that would get out into the public domain because the fans were there and involved. What qualifies me to question decisions made within the club? thats an irrelevant question as I wouldnt be the one in there, it would be a member voted on and agreed by the rest of the members based on the information they supplied as to why they were suitable. What makes Derek Llambias qualified? absolutely nothing, hes ran a casino, hes a businessman yet still now you would rather he made these decisions after everything thats happened without the inclusion of a fans representative than have someone appointed by the fans involved? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 As for a member in the boardroom, how would you influence change? What makes you think you'd be taken seriously when Ashley/Llambias how shown nothing my contempt for NUSC and at most points brushed/ignored contact from you? What qualifies you to question any changes made within the club? Do you not think it would slow decision making down even further? Any member in the boardroom would influence change, thats why they're there. If decisions were being made which were to the detriment of the football club then the board would know that would get out into the public domain because the fans were there and involved. What qualifies me to question decisions made within the club? thats an irrelevant question as I wouldnt be the one in there, it would be a member voted on and agreed by the rest of the members based on the information they supplied as to why they were suitable. What makes Derek Llambias qualified? absolutely nothing, hes ran a casino, hes a businessman yet still now you would rather he made these decisions after everything thats happened without the inclusion of a fans representative than have someone appointed by the fans involved? I don't think an NUSC member sitting in the boardroom, if it was still Mike Ashley and Llambias, would have made a difference to the Wise/Keegan affair. I admire your belief that you can make a difference, but until I see it happen, I find it hard to believe. How will the appointed person make difference other then saying 'Oooh they won't like that'? Does he go back to an NUSC meeting, tell everyone, then they all vote, and by the time its been tallied and presented back... oh wait, the NUFC board went ahead and made the decision anyway. As for me preferring Llambias to still be making the decisions, what does that have to do with me not wanting to join the NUSC? He's the Chairman the owner appointed, and I don't think the NUSC can sway an Owner into changing his chairman. If I like his decisions or not, it doesn't matter as he'll still be making them, well, until the club is sold. As a side I'm not sure why you seem to be taking this so personally, I never questioned your decision on joining the NUSC, only gave my reasons why I haven't. I gave my reasons on what it would take for me to consider it, which seem to have went without a reply, so I can only assume they're issues the NUSC aren't interested in at the moment. What have NUSC done to distance themselves from the other protests that happened? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 As for a member in the boardroom, how would you influence change? What makes you think you'd be taken seriously when Ashley/Llambias how shown nothing my contempt for NUSC and at most points brushed/ignored contact from you? What qualifies you to question any changes made within the club? Do you not think it would slow decision making down even further? Any member in the boardroom would influence change, thats why they're there. If decisions were being made which were to the detriment of the football club then the board would know that would get out into the public domain because the fans were there and involved. What qualifies me to question decisions made within the club? thats an irrelevant question as I wouldnt be the one in there, it would be a member voted on and agreed by the rest of the members based on the information they supplied as to why they were suitable. What makes Derek Llambias qualified? absolutely nothing, hes ran a casino, hes a businessman yet still now you would rather he made these decisions after everything thats happened without the inclusion of a fans representative than have someone appointed by the fans involved? I don't think an NUSC member sitting in the boardroom, if it was still Mike Ashley and Llambias, would have made a difference to the Wise/Keegan affair. I admire your belief that you can make a difference, but until I see it happen, I find it hard to believe. How will the appointed person make difference other then saying 'Oooh they won't like that'? Does he go back to an NUSC meeting, tell everyone, then they all vote, and by the time its been tallied and presented back... oh wait, the NUFC board went ahead and made the decision anyway. As for me preferring Llambias to still be making the decisions, what does that have to do with me not wanting to join the NUSC? He's the Chairman the owner appointed, and I don't think the NUSC can sway an Owner into changing his chairman. If I like his decisions or not, it doesn't matter as he'll still be making them, well, until the club is sold. As a side I'm not sure why you seem to be taking this so personally, I never questioned your decision on joining the NUSC, only gave my reasons why I haven't. I gave my reasons on what it would take for me to consider it, which seem to have went without a reply, so I can only assume they're issues the NUSC aren't interested in at the moment. What have NUSC done to distance themselves from the other protests that happened? Which other protests? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 As for a member in the boardroom, how would you influence change? What makes you think you'd be taken seriously when Ashley/Llambias how shown nothing my contempt for NUSC and at most points brushed/ignored contact from you? What qualifies you to question any changes made within the club? Do you not think it would slow decision making down even further? Any member in the boardroom would influence change, thats why they're there. If decisions were being made which were to the detriment of the football club then the board would know that would get out into the public domain because the fans were there and involved. What qualifies me to question decisions made within the club? thats an irrelevant question as I wouldnt be the one in there, it would be a member voted on and agreed by the rest of the members based on the information they supplied as to why they were suitable. What makes Derek Llambias qualified? absolutely nothing, hes ran a casino, hes a businessman yet still now you would rather he made these decisions after everything thats happened without the inclusion of a fans representative than have someone appointed by the fans involved? I don't think an NUSC member sitting in the boardroom, if it was still Mike Ashley and Llambias, would have made a difference to the Wise/Keegan affair. I admire your belief that you can make a difference, but until I see it happen, I find it hard to believe. How will the appointed person make difference other then saying 'Oooh they won't like that'? Does he go back to an NUSC meeting, tell everyone, then they all vote, and by the time its been tallied and presented back... oh wait, the NUFC board went ahead and made the decision anyway. As for me preferring Llambias to still be making the decisions, what does that have to do with me not wanting to join the NUSC? He's the Chairman the owner appointed, and I don't think the NUSC can sway an Owner into changing his chairman. If I like his decisions or not, it doesn't matter as he'll still be making them, well, until the club is sold. As a side I'm not sure why you seem to be taking this so personally, I never questioned your decision on joining the NUSC, only gave my reasons why I haven't. I gave my reasons on what it would take for me to consider it, which seem to have went without a reply, so I can only assume they're issues the NUSC aren't interested in at the moment. What have NUSC done to distance themselves from the other protests that happened? Which other protests? The one that happened before it was formed, yes I know thats the answer, but I'm sure people associate that protest with the NUSC too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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