macca888

My family in Scotland are all Celtic fans so I guess I follow them a bit too. As I live in Oz, I am a member of our local team down here, Melbourne Victory. Some players you might remember who currently play for Melbourne: Kevin Muscat - ex Millwall, Rangers, Palace Archie Thompson - Had a stint with PSV Daniel Allsopp - Ex. Notts County Grant Brebner - Former Hearts Nick Ward - on loan from QPR

NJS It would seem that he gave up much hope of quick success after the Chelsea defeat and the rot set in after that. It is widely regarded that Wise and Keegan had two separate lists of players during the last transfer window and as it would seem that most of the players signed for the club have been instigated by the recruitment team and not on Keegans list, it would be fair to state that some of those players mentioned in my previous post could have been on Keegans list, especially in light of the regard he has for Henry. As for previous big signings, I would say the 6 million he paid for Ferdinand, breaking the record for a defender in signing Warren Barton, the 7.5 million he spent on Asprilla and not forgetting 13 million on Anelka at City over and above the Shearer signing shows his penchant for signing established players rather than promising ones. Furthermore, some of the younger players he signed for the club did not really go on to be a huge success during his first spell. Players such as Mathie, Huckerby, Holland and to a lesser extent, Gillespie didnt really pull any trees at NUFC. Andy Cole would have been the only youngster he signed to go on and succeed at NUFC. This support the argument that Keegan could really only look to established, highly valued stars rather than potential youngsters with sell on values which is clearly what the current regime are interested in. This is the major reason why I believe this entire farce has occurred due largely to the belief that Keegan was unable to act on transfers in line with the plans estblished by the owner and board therefore requiring an alteration in responsibilities.

NJS Why do you believe it is not true then? Why would the club come out with such a statement if there wasnt an element of truth about it? After all, Keegan had already admitted that his dream player would be Henry. Ronaldinho and Lampard were available this summer too. Keegan has a history of buying "blue chip" players and the fact that he wanted recognised premiership players in his squad supports the report. Do you believe Lampard is worth 150K a week? Do you believe Ronaldinho is worth 200K a week? To be honest, these players would be looking for one last big pay day before retirement anyway so they would be of little benefit to the club. I personally have had my fill of these types of players representing our club and believe the plan put in place by the board is the best way forward when you take into account demographics, budgets and status.

Mick I dont know why you bother even answering NE5. You should know already he is the village idiot of this forum.

The protests are poitless against Hull City for a nuymber of reasons: We cannot afford to lower the moral of the players any further because these are 3 points we desperately need. Make no bones about it, Hull will be up for this game knowing the discontent around the place and it is a potential banana skin for us. We need to support the team next saturday more than anything else. Ashley will already know the level of discontent from the media. He should return for the Hull game and face the fans, either before or after the match with his evidential proof of the boards part in this farce. Although he is not planning to be at the game, he needs to change those plans immediately. To what purpose will the protest serve now. As said above, Ashley is probably stunned by the reaction but Keegan is not going to return so we must move on, one way or another. Ashley will not appoint Wise (who doesnt want to be the coach) or Poyet (who doesnt want to uproot his family from the south).

He is now caught between a rock and a hard place. What do I do to appease the fans? Appoint a top rank Manager (Hiddink, Rijkard etc), spend money in the January window or does he now realise the extent of confidence damage amongst the fans that may be irrepairable so a quick sale with a small profit may be in the offing. He has a number of other issues to think about: 1.......Does the club have the support of the players? 2........Do Ihe come out and state, with evidence, the facts concerning the brwakdown of commnication and that Keegan was to blame and not the board. 3.........Do he take the Keegan resignation and alleged contract clause to court and risk further critiscism all round? 4........If he does item 3, does he take the risk of writting off this season altogether with the lowering further of moral and which could ultimately threaten the club with relegation. 5........Does he discipline Wise, LLambiass, Jimenez for not dealing with this matter professionally? I wouldnt like to be in his shoes at present but one thing is for sure, he needs to get the club back on track as quickly as possible because if his God is money, as it would seem to be, his asset (the club) will be severely deflated if this club ended up being relegated this season. No bugger would take it off his hands then. My view is this: Get his arse back to Tyneside as quickly as possible On return, organise a televised press conference and provide evidence that Keegan was to report to a DOF who has authority over transfers. The fans to accept Keegan's departure was for the benefit for the club due to his unrealistic demands, if this was the case. Appoint a top quality continental manager who can fit into the system established. Provide reasonable funds to the said manager in January to boost the squad Advise the players on what has actually happened and provide their spokesmen with documented evidence Get M.Owen to sign a new contract because we cannot afford to lose him at this stage. If he is unable to achieve any of these points, he will need to sell up virtually immediately. Of course, he will not get what he wants, as the vultures circle.

The entire situation smaks of "apples and Oranges" really. He said, they said etc etc etc. My take on it, if the latest news is to be believed, is that up until this transfer window, Keegan had the responsibility of working with Wise to find players to mprove the team. The strategic plan set in place by the board was too follow the example set by Wenger and Arsenal and after scouring the world for talent, Wise and Cop. recommended a list of players to Keegan, including Nasri, Sshweinsteiger and Valdo. Keegan provided a list of players including Beckham, Henry, Ronaldinho, and Lampard. These players, either at the end of their careers would have no long term benefit to the club and therefore, they were disregarded and quite rightly so. Because of this Keegan got into a strop and transfer matters were taken out of his hands and became solely the responsibility of the recruiting team. I totally agree with the decisions made by the board, if this is really the case. There is no doubting in my mind that the sale of Milner was a great piece of business for the money we got and way above even Keegans valuation of the player. The fact that Scheinsteiger turned us down at the last minute may well have accentuated the problem further due to the limited time to find a replacement. This may not have been the recruitment teams fault. If these reports are to be believed and the statement from the board is correct, I fail to see how they had no other alternative but to let Keegan go. To try and sign those players for that money quoted is going back to the dark old days of recruiting the likes of Owen, Luque, Boumsong etc for vastly oversized transfer fees. Furthermore, the board seem to have a clear plan on where they want to take the club over the next 3 to 5 years. Like it or not, Newcastle United Football Club is a multi million pound business like most other clubs and to run it without a logical business plan, outside budgetary constraints is tantamount to corporate suicide. Keegan has a history of histrionics, spats, strops and dummy spitting. If it is correct that it was written into his contract that he had to pay the club compensation if he resigned, then the only real mistaKe the club have made is to appoint him in the first place. He was clearly not the person to fit into this management structure and to a certain extent, you cannot really blame Keegan for accepting the challenge. I remember just prior to his leaving Manchester City, the common complaints from the players surrounded his method of tactical nouse and the type of training they were being asked to do. There was almost a player revolt there over this. The club should have researched their appointment more thoroughly and they are to be blamed for thinking with their hearts and not their heads here. There is probably a thousand different scenarios and conspiracy theories bounding around the place on this topis at present and I doubt any poster will know or get to know the whole truth of the matter. Lies and distorted truths may have been told by both sides to seek sympathy from the media, public and fans but it boils down to two things, reputations and money. Unfortuinately, I doubt either party will ever come out of this with reputations intact and if the club threaten to sue Keegan as per the allegeded clause in his contract, then his soccer circus debt will pale into insignificance in comparison to what he will end up paying the club. A whole new transition is the only way forward. Keegan has gone and he will not be coming back. Those who adore him, get used to the idea and move on.

Unbelievable Yes, I am aware that most clubs operate this way but I along with many others, were under the i,pression that we were debt free. Clearly, I was wrong but thankfully, it is nowhere near as big as it was. Regarding your question about balancing the books, I think you have mistaken me for someone else because I have never posted that comment. My thoughts are quite the reverse as long as the debt is manageable. Under the previous regime, it clearly wasnt. My comments in the above post relate more to the price Ashley could be forced to accept due to the current state of the club as well as the advised amount of remaining debt of 27 million, which seems to being managed quite sensibly, if his interview is to be believed.

You HAVENT answerered these questions before. Methinks your refusal to do so is because you know you will make yourself look like an even bigger numbnut than you already are. So, then, What are your answers? Regarding the 27 million, it may be peanuts to someone like Ambani or whatever his name is, but he is probably trying to take advantage mof the current "crisis" in order to run the asking price down from Ashley. There again, for a billionaire like Ashley to allegedly pay off 80 million of the debt, one might wonder why he hasnt paid off the remainder, unless of course, he is really thinking of selling the club. I still would like to know what he is doing in the USA other than spending shitloads in a New York nightclub.

Darth I seem to recall in an interview somewhere recently that Ashley advised that there was still 27 million pounds still to pay off from the spendthrift days of the previous administration. If correct, this will also have an effect on the value of the club, if a new buyer decides to make an offer acceptable to him.

Unfortunately for you, Facts speak louder than words. ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

NE5 So, utterly predictable, am I? Answer me the following questions: 1.......Were you happy to see Ashley rid the club of 80 million pounds debt incurred by your beloved fat boy freddie? 2........Are you happy with the standard of football so far this season? 3........Are you happy with a ratio of 6 wins out of 21 games, a 29% win record achieved by Keegan in his time here? 4........Although thin, do you consider the current squad of players better than under Allardyce, Roeder etc? I doubt very much you could answer any of these questions either honestly or sensibly because you suffer from the disease of "woods and trees". And just to reiterate, no, I dont believe Keegan has been a success here in football management,. just like he failed to be a success with Fulham, Man City and England. However, as a PR man, I think Keegan is top rank. I also had a great laugh at your comment about sticking to the tried and trusted method of the last 100 years. That would be the method that has seen us fail to win a domestic trophy for 53 years in spite of the millions we have shelled out to a succession of managers, including Keegan. You need to grow up and smell the roses, sunshine. This club needs to move ahead and at least try the continental approach because your tried and trusted method just doesnt work. And before you say it worked under Keegan 1992-97, answer me the question..............What trophy did he win for us? As far as I remember, he managed to lose us the best chance of winning the league for 70 years. The only real mistake Ashley has made is appointing the wrong man to this system in January, as pointed on numerous threads over the past few days, by several posters. And if you mdont like MY OPINION, you can stick it where the sun doesnt shine, that is, if you actually have just the one......you tosser.

No, no magic wands required. I fully understood the situation he came into. Hopwever, we still had a quality squad last year, certainly quality enough to avoid a relegation battle and it did take him 8 games to get his first victory. We played some poor quality football during that period and the system he stumbled across by default in the second half of the Birmingham away game saved his bacon. I think it is generally agreed by most on here that whilst the squad needs some further acquisitions, the quality is better than last year. However, I havent seen anything in the three games so far to merit anything more than midtable mediocrity this season, even before Keegan resigned. Certainly, the performances have been nothing to shout from the rooftops about other than a spirited effort against a weakened MU. Hopefully, these latest two lads will prove to be assets.

Sniffer Quite possibly, but look at the teams we have beaten during his time here. Sunderland, Fulham, Reading, Bolton and a disinterested Spurs. It hardly fills you with a great deal of confidence. Take into account the thrashings handed out to us by Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, Everton and Chelsea and what does this tell you. With or without Keegan, we are a million miles away from the top 8 at present.

Yes, I saw all the league games but not the cup match. We did play well against MU at OT but it still took Given and the crossbar to stop them from winning. Dont forget this, they were already depleted before Carrick and Giggs went off injured and they brought on a couple of kids and O'Shea who would struggle to make our reserve team. Against Bolton, we created little and if I remember that stats, Bolton had more shots on goal and more corners during the game. If it was not for the penalty save, I think we all agree that we would have been lucky to get a draw. Arsenal was instantly forgettable. Remember this, out of 21 games in charge, Keegan only won 6 which is roughly 29%. Continue with those stats and we would be fighting relegation, no matter how pretty our football looked.

Interesting point made about the football improving this season. Where exactly did you see that? A draw at OT against a severely under-strength Man Utd side - Good result A very fortunate victory against a well organised Bolton team that shot themselves in the foot. Taken to extra time by a mediocre championship team in the cup and pissed on from a great height by a current top 4 team that gave us a huge lesson in football. Yep, a great bloody improvement.,

I find the title of this thread thoroughly amusing and misguided. Because Ashley and Keegan have parted company under the management echelons of NUFC, pray tell me where Ashley has failed? As far as I can see, he saved the club from oblivion 15 months ago, established a professional managemenmt team, set in place short and long term strategic plans for the club, wiped off most of the debt incurred by the previous administration, oversaw the sale of deadwood from the squad, actively seeking investors and marketing partners to piortray the image of club worldwide, sanctioned the purchase of quality players within the framework of the budget allocated and is currently addressing a plan to be debt free within 3 years. His only failing, in my eyes, is to fail to return from America to deal personally with the Keegan tantrum.

Just slightly off topic though, but in light of recent comments in the press about offers from intermediatary companies, especially from America, for the club, I wonder what is business is so important in the States to prevent Ashley from coming back and dealing personally, face to face, with Keegan over recent events.

To be honest, a lot of what Saltspringer has said is true. Football is no longer a sport but a business and most top clubs are running their clubs like a busness. Up until the Ashley era, we were run by a second rate business man whose business acumen almost took the club to the very brink of closure. If it were not for Ashley, we might not be supporting NUFC now. His ideas of management teams working together in order to stablize what was a sinking ship, has virtually put the club back on an even keel in a short time. Yes, we still are paying off debt from the previous administration and probably will be for 2 or 3 more years yet. I dont think Keegan could handle the fact that established players like Hnry, Lampard, Ronaldinho etc were well out of our reach at present and the fact that there would be no sale on money coming in would just put the club back to where it started pre Ashley. In essence, Keegan wanted instant success, megapounds to spend just like last time and when he was denied this, that is when he came out with the comment after the Chelsea game that he couldnt get the club into the top 4. That was when the rot set in because it is clear proof to the current administration that Keegan could not build a team from young players over a number of years, into a challenging top 4 team. Patience is a virtue, so they say, but Keegan had very little of this and his niavety at the current business world of football was there for all to see. He wanted instant success but we are not owned by arab billionaires who can afford the best players in the world. Unfortunately, Keegan couldnt see this and wasnt willing to work within the framework the club admionistration had established. We now have to look ahead fior a manager who clearly understands the current mode of football management and can blend into the administration as a member of a team and not spout off like a spoilt brat when he doesnt get his own way.

To be frank, it was never going to last. He should never have returned, especially after he had been out of the game for three years. They say you should never go back and more often than not, this saying is correct. Whilst the entire situation is currently being discussed on emotional highs, the rational points are that no one man is bigger than the club and we need to regroup as quickly as possible because we have a very important game next week against Hull City and 3 points are vital. Bridges need to be re-built immediately because the last thing we now need is a player revolt, although I do not think this will happen. However, we need to appoint someone (obviously not Wise or Poyet) who has the capability of regaining confidence in the short term and ther ability of turning this club around in the long term. Roles of management will need to be specifically designed for all encumbents and personnel adhere to those procedures. This job is crying out for a mature, experienced manager and I can only feel that Ashley should now look to the future by going for the best around and that is Hiddink. The fans need to be appeased with quality and if Ashley has to break the bank to get him, go for it. If not, then I wouldnt be surpised to see them go for some Spanish unknown who will no doubt follow in the footsteps of Allardyce and Keegan by lasing no more than 8 months.

There are no clear facts at the moment on what has caused these problems. Most of the information people are discussing is largely hearsay because neither party through the club statement or the LMA statement have advised anyone exactly what the issues are. We can all guess what they are but exactly who the perpetrators are, is yet to b e released. Neither do we really know what is exactly the role of Wise, Jimenez, Vetere etc as well as Keegan. There could be faults on both sides as far as we know. My own opinion relates to the future of the club and the damage this whole episode is doing. I think we can all safely say that the season might already be a write off due to the low moral of all concerned and the amunt of work involved in increasing that moral again. For example, if reports are to be believed that Michael Owen's transfer was being sharked around clubs on deadline day, I can safely say that you could offer the bloke a million quid a week on his new contract, he would still be off at the end of the season. How much is it going to cost to replace him? 20 million quid plus? I doubt the club have that sort of money to spend on one player The damage done by this entire episode is going to be irrepairable to a certain extent and it might set us back a few more years. and possibly all because grown men cannot iron out problems rationally behind closed doors. Mountains and molehills spring to mind

So, what you are saying is that Keegan doesnt take training and doesnt attend sessions? Absolute bullshit. He is allegedly a tracksuit manager and I dont think you would find many days when Ferguson hasnt been on the training ground either. FWIW...I want all parties concerned to compromise for the benefit of the club and leave their ego's behind. Keegan has a history of walking out on this club, third occasion that I remember and usually it is because he doesnt get his own way. My opinion is that if cannot reach agreement now, then just go so we can replace him as soon as possible. Time is of the essence now and we need to get some sort of organisation back in place by the weekend to prepare for the Hull game the following week.

International week or not, in my opinion, it is a dereliction of duty for Keegan to miss three days training in a row. He has a respionsibility to the players as he is still the Manager, whether he has disputes or not. Anynegotiations and meetings could be arranged after training has finished and to be totally frank, Keegan is showing his petulant side once again. If any of us walked out in dispute, would we still get paid? I wonder if Ashley will dock Keegans wages. As some on here have already said, this is getting boring now and threatens to totally destroy the clubs season. Fpr the benefit of all concerned with the club from the owner to the tea lady, some compromise should be met by all parties concerned for the benefit of the club. I bet Hull City are lapping all of this up. As popular as Keegan appears to be, one man doesnt run a football club and he needs to realise this. If he cannot, fuck off back to his circus in Glasgow and give someone sensible a chance of clearing up this bloody mess we find ourselves in.

Three games in and the season is stuffed already, in my opinion. Why? 1. KK ego has yet again come to the fore and if the media is to be believed, what right has he got to request the sackings of Wise and Co.? He doesnt run the club, he doesnt own the club. He is way above his station here. He knew the Wise situation well before he returned and the fact that Ashley is running the club in a more european format. He either adapts or buggers off. 2. I dont buy his argument about not knowing the players brought in. If he was so against this, Guthrie, Jonas and Collocini wouldnt have played the last four games. 3. Common sense shows that Milner's sale was great business, Smith is a hanger on and Owen has no intention of signing a new contract and will leave for nothing next summer.The board is right mto try and sell him and get some money back in. 4.. Wise has brought some very gifted youngsters to the club and I doubt very much that he has interfered in senior team affairs. 5. The talk of a player revolt is worrying and if true, then I cant see Ashley bowing to KKs requests, at the risk of being seen as weak so we might find ourselves in a bit of bother on the park between now and the new year, especially if KK goes. 6. Reports show his Glasgow circus is deep in debt and any pay off would be a relief for KK. 7. Finally, what it all really boils down to is that KK is really only interested in his own reputation and affairs and all the claptrap about unfinished busness, the fans etc etc is his tactic towards gaining control and removing other partners from the board. This will have to result in a whole new business approach by Ashley and I dont think he will be willing to change for the sake of one man, no matter how popular KK is with the fans and players. One man isnt bigger than the club. Isnt it strange how KK has repeated the events of 1992? I honestly believe the club was heading in the right direction. We had signed some very good players and got rid of some ordinary ones. Although the squad was small, we had a lot more quality and we also boosted the academy with som e excellent youngsters. We have had a reasonable start to the season and although we have some injuries, once recovered, we would have a quality squad which would be capable of a top 8 finish. With some investment next summer, we could and should improve but under the current circumstances, unless we get a top line coach like Hiddink, we are in for a further season of struggle.

New Indian Owner appoints his board Chairman Tim CURRY Football Director Tim RICE