Kasper

Brighton are buying the league.

Well I guess that something we can agree on is that he needs a plan B. Whether that is because he doesn't have a proper plan b or because the current plan b isn't working is pretty irrelevant for anyone who isn't writing a book about this season.

You have? All I've seen is lots of talk about substitutions Does that mean that if we go in the next game with a different starting 11, it's also automaticly a different game plan? What I actually want is you to tell me is how have you seen the game change when we've made those changes? If we've banged our head on the wall and decide to put Perez on then what is the different way the team is supposed to play to unlock that defense? Changing a player to another one isn't a change of game plan if it doesn't change the way the TEAM plays. You can easily identify things from our first choice game plan (which is a nice change at this club) but I struggle to see how our game plan changes if that doesn't work. You mentioned "playing to their strenghts" but could you elaborate on that a bit. What does that actually mean and how is it going to help us? Feel free to use yesterday as an example. Or even a theory of what should happen will do. What that Liverpool fan has said is more interesting though. It might be that it's not about the lack of plan B but more about the apprehension to deviate from the first choice plan. Add that to what he apparently has said about only working with one system so far but wants to have 2-3. Work in progress. I get that, but it doesn't mean we're dealing well with these situations right now. You're asking me to go in depth on how Diame and Perez have different strengths and abilities? Or how you would play to those, seriously? You want that to be explained to you? I cba tbh, you're passing basic ignorance off as a desire for insight imo. The differences between the two and the way that you play to their strengths is unbelievably obvious, and I don't believe for a second that you don't already know that. You're now asking me 'how have you seen the game change when we've made those changes?' when, yet again, your original point was that 'Rafa has no plan B' not 'Rafa's Plan B doesn't work'. They're different points. 'Rafa has no plan B' is something I would argue with. 'Rafa's plan B doesn't work' is something I wouldn't really argue with at this stage, because his plan B hasn't really worked so far when called upon at Newcastle. The crucial point though, is that he does have a plan B. Whether it works or not is another matter. I'm asking you how have you seen the game change when we've made those changes because I have seen very little. And how can you call it a change of plan if it doesnt change things on the pitch? Isn't it then the same plan with different players? e: And yes I know how they are very different players but you're completely ignoring the actual question. How are we as a team planning to turn that difference into a goal scoring chance? I don't see it.

If Mitrovic does get sold, we will be buying a striker. Probably Wilson. Probably another 15m to sit on the bench. Why? So we should have two strikers, one good one and one s*** one? Price is irrelevant, we need a squad. Mitrovic isn't good enough and Rafa presumably wants to replace him. How have you come to the conclusion that Mitrovic isn't good enough to be playing for us? We have players in our starting 11 who appear un-droppable who have put in much more shitter performances this season than Mitrovic has. Mitrovic was playing Champions League football prior to joining us, less than two years later and he's suddenly not good enough for the f***ing Championship where the likes of Glenn Murray score regularly Whether Mitrovic is good enough for the PL is a different story, but we're not in the PL. Considering we are struggling to break teams down a lot at the moment, it's incredible that he has not played much football at all. When he has started games this season, Blackburn aside, he has played well and scored goals. I sort of hope Mitrovic is sold, because he's been treated like a scapegoat by many for little reasoning and his career is stagnating at a key stage for no reason. He'll go off and have a decent career with someone else and we'll probably look the c***s when he's scoring regularly at a higher level than this - especially if we sell him this January and fail to go up. You're laughing at Glen Murray scoring regularly in this division, but he is a natural goal scorer whatever else you might think of his game. Still not convinced about Mitrovic, although tbf he hasn't really had much opportunity to prove himself this season. He had one real chance to prove himself when Gayle was out. During which he had 4 goals, 1 assist and 2 man of the match performances in 3 games.

You have? All I've seen is lots of talk about substitutions Does that mean that if we go in the next game with a different starting 11, it's also automaticly a different game plan? What I actually want is you to tell me is how have you seen the game change when we've made those changes? If we've banged our head on the wall and decide to put Perez on then what is the different way the team is supposed to play to unlock that defense? Changing a player to another one isn't a change of game plan if it doesn't change the way the TEAM plays. You can easily identify things from our first choice game plan (which is a nice change at this club) but I struggle to see how our game plan changes if that doesn't work. You mentioned "playing to their strenghts" but could you elaborate on that a bit. What does that actually mean and how is it going to help us? Feel free to use yesterday as an example. Or even a theory of what should happen will do. What that Liverpool fan has said is more interesting though. It might be that it's not about the lack of plan B but more about the apprehension to deviate from the first choice plan. Add that to what he apparently has said about only working with one system so far but wants to have 2-3. Work in progress. I get that, but it doesn't mean we're dealing well with these situations right now.

I believe that every manager in the world is also a human being and sometimes operates in a certain way because they have certain tendencies or things they firmly believe in, habits even. Sometimes those things might be holding you a back a bit. He's a great manager but I don't consider these things something that couldn't be discussed and argued about just because Rafa knows best. If we believed he does everything perfectly whats the point of talking about anything other than how shit Colback is. It doesn't even matter who we sign. He's gonna be the best we can get because Rafa picked him.

Two things I'm interested in. What do you/he consider control? Ball control? If it's not leading to goal scoring opportunities are you really in control of the game? What does he do when the team is losing control? How does he react? What did he change in that Hull game? What did he change yesterday in the 10-15 mins before the goal when you could see us dropping a lot deeper than the first half (and giving them more control).

To play 10 so Mo could drop into cm. ? Post was directed at Kasper. It was KI who brought that sub up. I think it's a sub he has done a numerous times though isnt it? And I personally haven't seen what it has brought to the table. Think he was onabout Perez coming off for Diame. Aye, it was just a regular sub that's happened a few times as an example. I wasn't talking specifically about yesterday. Based on a quick look that sub hasn't happened that way around once this season. At least in the league. It absolutely has. Huddersfield and Bristol just off the top of my head and vs Cardiff, Sheff Wed and Derby they were both substituted for different players, but went into that number 10 position like 5 to 10 minutes later. What? I'm confused. You just cleared up that you're talking about Perez coming off for Diame yet you give examples of the opposite? But if we are talking about that sub then it's even worse example. I gave you an example of what Mitrovic coming on for Gouffran would bring to our game yet you gave none for Perez. How has bringing Perez on for Diame answered the problems we've had in those situations. How has that change improved us? What is the potential improvement there and what is the plan that swap is based on? Well I didn't, I wasn't talking exclusively about Perez for Diame but, wait for it, Diame for Perez too. I've also given those other examples where they replaced each other in the same position within the space of 5 or 10 minutes with each other, just in case you want to let your hair down and go full pedant. I've answered the rest as well, I've already said that it's 'different players with different attributes contributing in different ways to make different things happen.' Your original point was that Rafa doesn't have a plan B, you're now saying "How has bringing Perez on for Diame answered the problems we've had in those situations." which is more along the lines of 'Why doesn't Rafa's plan B work?' So you've changed your original point there, but to answer the question, Diame for Perez often sees improvement. The fact that it doesn't happen in Perez's case whether he's starting or coming on is because he's in absolutely shocking form. Why Rafa continues with him is up for debate, but my opinion is that it's a mixture of believing in his ability and there simply being no better alternative. Yeah you've answered that but if you're going to be so vague about the actual things that happen on the pitch you might as well say "I don't know". If there's a plan then surely it has to be based on some idea? If it's not, I wouldn't call it a plan. And I'd hope the idea is more than "they are different players". I gave an example of a sub that would bring something different (with actual examples of how!) and you compared it to Perez & Diame saying that Rafa often makes changes like that to change the game. I've yet to hear one real argument for that change other than "They are different players". I don't know how I could ask this question any clearer: How them being different players are meant to improve us when we're struggling. How is Perez answering the problem created when the opponent is defending with 5 center halves? I'm genuinely interested as I haven't seen anything.

To play 10 so Mo could drop into cm. ? Post was directed at Kasper. It was KI who brought that sub up. I think it's a sub he has done a numerous times though isnt it? And I personally haven't seen what it has brought to the table. Think he was onabout Perez coming off for Diame. Aye, it was just a regular sub that's happened a few times as an example. I wasn't talking specifically about yesterday. Based on a quick look that sub hasn't happened that way around once this season. At least in the league. It absolutely has. Huddersfield and Bristol just off the top of my head and vs Cardiff, Sheff Wed and Derby they were both substituted for different players, but went into that number 10 position like 5 to 10 minutes later. What? I'm confused. You just cleared up that you're talking about Perez coming off for Diame yet you give examples of the opposite? But if we are talking about that sub then it's even worse example. I gave you an example of what Mitrovic coming on for Gouffran would bring to our game yet you gave none for Perez. How has bringing Perez on for Diame answered the problems we've had in those situations. How has that change improved us? What is the potential improvement there and what is the plan that swap is based on?

To play 10 so Mo could drop into cm. ? Post was directed at Kasper. It was KI who brought that sub up. I think it's a sub he has done a numerous times though isnt it? And I personally haven't seen what it has brought to the table. Think he was onabout Perez coming off for Diame. Aye, it was just a regular sub that's happened a few times as an example. I wasn't talking specifically about yesterday. Based on a quick look that sub hasn't happened that way around once this season. At least in the league.

Also I'm not saying I think he's incapable of making changes. Definitely not. He made big changes for yesterday in the way we tried to win the ball higher up the pitch so we wouldnt be relying so much on Colback and Hayden building from the back. During the games though...I haven't seen much change when we've struggled to break through.

To play 10 so Mo could drop into cm. ? Post was directed at Kasper. It was KI who brought that sub up. I think it's a sub he has done a numerous times though isnt it? And I personally haven't seen what it has brought to the table.

Why is it then impossible to identify what that plan is? Or can you tell me what our plan is when opponent sits back and Gayle struggles to touch the ball? It's not rocket science. If we have a real plan for these situations then surely most of us would be able to watch the game and point the things he has changed in the way we play. I sure can't. You can't? So you've never seen a change in our football following half time? You've never seen any of our players change position, or new players come on to up the pace or to replace someone who's playing particularly poorly? Perez for Diame, Gouffran for Atsu etc etc? No, I don't see anything consistent enough that tells me there's a solid plan for these situation. If he's bringing on Perez for Diame what is he looking to achieve? How is he changing the way we play if what has been happening for the first 60 minutes clearly isn't working at all. If there is a plan, he needs a better one. What I'd do if Gayle keeps getting abused by two thug center halves is bring Mitro in there and move Gayle on the left where he'd enjoy more space and would be able to do what Gouffran isn't: make runs between the full back and the center back. Mitrovic isn't a great goal scorer but in some games its just so painfully obvious you need a physical presence there to give someone an extra second or a metre. There's no one solid plan though. In some situations Rafa will change players, add players, change line ups. Honestly, not being adaptable or not having a plan B is exactly the last thing that I would accuse Rafa of, he's meticulous in his planning and you rarely see the same line up because he has a plan, not just a one size fits all approach to managing games. Your suggestion is to move the league's top scorer from his natural, favourite, successful position into another one where you think things will happen based on...? Where's this idea that he'll get more space, space to run into come from? You don't see what's looking to be achieved by changing Perez for Diame (for example)? They have different ways of playing for a start, that's before getting onto how one of them is in dire form and the other isn't. Diame drives at teams and gets out wide, Perez is supposed to be the typical tricky number 10, but isn't. Gayle for Mitrovic would come under the same bracket as the Perez for Diame example above, with the obvious reason that this doesn't happen being that one is the league's top scorer and the other isn't anywhere near that. Moving Gayle from his position is lunacy imo. Yes, bring Mitrovic on by all means, but shifting Gayle from the position that he's nailed down? Nah, no chance at this stage. 3 or 4 games without it working then maybe, but not right now. It matters absolutely nothing if he's the top scorer in the world or not if he's not getting a sniff of the ball and is clearly getting frustrated out there. Also I don't get how that comes under the same bracket as Perez and Diame. You were the one who said Rafa has a plan and makes changes like Perez for Diame based on that plan. Yet you don't tell me a single thing Perez brings to the table or how that sub changes the way we play for the better in a certain situation? How is that sub offering an answer to a problem, how is Perez's different style helping us open a defense? I gave a simple example what Mitro for Gouffran sub could bring when we've pushed and pushed for 60 minutes without progress.

Fair enough. That is exactly what it looks like. Let's hope that plan isn't so complicated that teams keep figuring us out faster than our players learn it.

Also I'm not getting on the "don't question him" wagon and think that's a pretty cheap thing to go telling people. We're all here to discuss football and sometimes questioning what the manager is doing and discussing that is a big part of it.

Why is it then impossible to identify what that plan is? Or can you tell me what our plan is when opponent sits back and Gayle struggles to touch the ball? It's not rocket science. If we have a real plan for these situations then surely most of us would be able to watch the game and point the things he has changed in the way we play. I sure can't. You can't? So you've never seen a change in our football following half time? You've never seen any of our players change position, or new players come on to up the pace or to replace someone who's playing particularly poorly? Perez for Diame, Gouffran for Atsu etc etc? No, I don't see anything consistent enough that tells me there's a solid plan for these situation. If he's bringing on Perez for Diame what is he looking to achieve? How is he changing the way we play if what has been happening for the first 60 minutes clearly isn't working at all. If there is a plan, he needs a better one. What I'd do if Gayle keeps getting abused by two thug center halves is bring Mitro in there and move Gayle on the left where he'd enjoy more space and would be able to do what Gouffran isn't: make runs between the full back and the center back. Mitrovic isn't a great goal scorer but in some games its just so painfully obvious you need a physical presence there to give someone an extra second or a metre.

Why is it then impossible to identify what that plan is? Or can you tell me what our plan is when opponent sits back and Gayle struggles to touch the ball? It's not rocket science. If we have a real plan for these situations then surely most of us would be able to watch the game and point the things he has changed in the way we play. I sure can't.

i really don't think this is the issue myself, it's the quality of player rafa is having to put in key positions in his regular formation diame was behind gayle yesterday and looked decent, we created chances...colback and hayden are a very limited central pairing in an attacking sense and colback in every sense of course, but until they got a foothold in the game we were more than comfortable colback then pushed the abort button and had to come off so diame has to go back central as there's no one else, perez takes his spot and does nothing in the short time he's given which is not a surprise as his form is rubbish i've personally been a massive critic of our managers crying about needing new players in the last few years but we really do need them in key places such as CM and someone with pace that can play wide and behind gayle...the distinction being that rafa is about the system and he won't deviate from that so the only way we progress given a number of the players aren't good enough is to upgrade to players that are capable I don't think it's the quality of the players as such. It's the type of players and the way we play. Teams have realised that all they need to do is defend deep to eliminate Gayle's space and we look clueless. We've been good away from home because most teams are a bit more aggressive at home and he has more space. It would make so much more sense to play a physical striker against sides like that and let Gayle use the space created by that striker tying defenders to himself. It scares me that Rafa is banging his head against the wall. It'll only get harder from here.

It's very simple why. Rafa wants a mobile striker up front as that is a key part of his 4231 formation to work, otherwise the number 10 player needs to play further forward. A key part for that to work is that your opponent tries to play football. If they sit back it doesn't matter how mobile the striker is as there is no space at all. And at that point you have to change something. Gayle - Mitro - Ritchie

Rafa spends most of the game telling us to be more narrow. Probably smart considering they can't cross for shit and when they happen to get the ball past the first man it's Gayle vs two tall center backs. Getting to the crossing positions out wide isn't a problem.

I wouldn't compare this defeat to the likes of Wednesday where we mostly hoofed the ball to a midget all game and sat deep when defending. I thought we played very well in the first half. I was pleased with what Rafa had changed. We were actively trying to win the ball back higher up the pitch and turn the play back at them closer to their goal. I haven't seen a lot of our games for obvious reasons this season but from what I've seen this was a big improvement and probably something that losing Shelvey has influenced. With him on the team we have creativity to break teams down on the slower attack but without him we struggle if we sit deep and win the ball near our own goal and have the whole pitch to move through. That seemed to lead to a lot of long balls which there were less today. Especially during the first half. Not sure what happened during the 2nd half. We seemed to sit a bit deeper and you could see the same thing happening as against Wednesday: Gayle urging everyone to push up and press them. Something that didn't happen once during the first half because we we're on them all the time when we lost the ball. Maybe they just got tired. The real worrying thing is that we should never be in a situation where losing one player completely destroys your first choice game plan. The quality of midfielders behind Jonjo is appalling and has to be the first thing we fix this month. And you can moan about the team selection but considering the problem is center midfield, what options do we really have from the bench that could bring some fresh legs there?

Take Colback off and replace him with no one just to make a point.

Colback you're fucking ridiculous.

Compare the way we try to win the ball back to the Sheffield Wednesday game. Huge difference in tactics.

The most positive thing I took from that half was that Rafa has clearly responded to our last couple games. We've been pretty shit with slow build up without Jonjo so it seems to me we're now trying to win the ball back a lot higher up the pitch. The whole team is pressing and not dropping back after losing posession. Winning the ball back in transition makes the pitch so much shorter to attack which seems to be helping our lack of creativity. What still worries me is that losing one player is effecting our play so much against one of the worst sides in the league. That's not a great position to be in and needs adressing this month.