Kasper

To play 10 so Mo could drop into cm. ? Post was directed at Kasper. It was KI who brought that sub up. I think it's a sub he has done a numerous times though isnt it? And I personally haven't seen what it has brought to the table. Think he was onabout Perez coming off for Diame. Aye, it was just a regular sub that's happened a few times as an example. I wasn't talking specifically about yesterday. Based on a quick look that sub hasn't happened that way around once this season. At least in the league.

Also I'm not saying I think he's incapable of making changes. Definitely not. He made big changes for yesterday in the way we tried to win the ball higher up the pitch so we wouldnt be relying so much on Colback and Hayden building from the back. During the games though...I haven't seen much change when we've struggled to break through.

To play 10 so Mo could drop into cm. ? Post was directed at Kasper. It was KI who brought that sub up. I think it's a sub he has done a numerous times though isnt it? And I personally haven't seen what it has brought to the table.

Why is it then impossible to identify what that plan is? Or can you tell me what our plan is when opponent sits back and Gayle struggles to touch the ball? It's not rocket science. If we have a real plan for these situations then surely most of us would be able to watch the game and point the things he has changed in the way we play. I sure can't. You can't? So you've never seen a change in our football following half time? You've never seen any of our players change position, or new players come on to up the pace or to replace someone who's playing particularly poorly? Perez for Diame, Gouffran for Atsu etc etc? No, I don't see anything consistent enough that tells me there's a solid plan for these situation. If he's bringing on Perez for Diame what is he looking to achieve? How is he changing the way we play if what has been happening for the first 60 minutes clearly isn't working at all. If there is a plan, he needs a better one. What I'd do if Gayle keeps getting abused by two thug center halves is bring Mitro in there and move Gayle on the left where he'd enjoy more space and would be able to do what Gouffran isn't: make runs between the full back and the center back. Mitrovic isn't a great goal scorer but in some games its just so painfully obvious you need a physical presence there to give someone an extra second or a metre. There's no one solid plan though. In some situations Rafa will change players, add players, change line ups. Honestly, not being adaptable or not having a plan B is exactly the last thing that I would accuse Rafa of, he's meticulous in his planning and you rarely see the same line up because he has a plan, not just a one size fits all approach to managing games. Your suggestion is to move the league's top scorer from his natural, favourite, successful position into another one where you think things will happen based on...? Where's this idea that he'll get more space, space to run into come from? You don't see what's looking to be achieved by changing Perez for Diame (for example)? They have different ways of playing for a start, that's before getting onto how one of them is in dire form and the other isn't. Diame drives at teams and gets out wide, Perez is supposed to be the typical tricky number 10, but isn't. Gayle for Mitrovic would come under the same bracket as the Perez for Diame example above, with the obvious reason that this doesn't happen being that one is the league's top scorer and the other isn't anywhere near that. Moving Gayle from his position is lunacy imo. Yes, bring Mitrovic on by all means, but shifting Gayle from the position that he's nailed down? Nah, no chance at this stage. 3 or 4 games without it working then maybe, but not right now. It matters absolutely nothing if he's the top scorer in the world or not if he's not getting a sniff of the ball and is clearly getting frustrated out there. Also I don't get how that comes under the same bracket as Perez and Diame. You were the one who said Rafa has a plan and makes changes like Perez for Diame based on that plan. Yet you don't tell me a single thing Perez brings to the table or how that sub changes the way we play for the better in a certain situation? How is that sub offering an answer to a problem, how is Perez's different style helping us open a defense? I gave a simple example what Mitro for Gouffran sub could bring when we've pushed and pushed for 60 minutes without progress.

Fair enough. That is exactly what it looks like. Let's hope that plan isn't so complicated that teams keep figuring us out faster than our players learn it.

Also I'm not getting on the "don't question him" wagon and think that's a pretty cheap thing to go telling people. We're all here to discuss football and sometimes questioning what the manager is doing and discussing that is a big part of it.

Why is it then impossible to identify what that plan is? Or can you tell me what our plan is when opponent sits back and Gayle struggles to touch the ball? It's not rocket science. If we have a real plan for these situations then surely most of us would be able to watch the game and point the things he has changed in the way we play. I sure can't. You can't? So you've never seen a change in our football following half time? You've never seen any of our players change position, or new players come on to up the pace or to replace someone who's playing particularly poorly? Perez for Diame, Gouffran for Atsu etc etc? No, I don't see anything consistent enough that tells me there's a solid plan for these situation. If he's bringing on Perez for Diame what is he looking to achieve? How is he changing the way we play if what has been happening for the first 60 minutes clearly isn't working at all. If there is a plan, he needs a better one. What I'd do if Gayle keeps getting abused by two thug center halves is bring Mitro in there and move Gayle on the left where he'd enjoy more space and would be able to do what Gouffran isn't: make runs between the full back and the center back. Mitrovic isn't a great goal scorer but in some games its just so painfully obvious you need a physical presence there to give someone an extra second or a metre.

Why is it then impossible to identify what that plan is? Or can you tell me what our plan is when opponent sits back and Gayle struggles to touch the ball? It's not rocket science. If we have a real plan for these situations then surely most of us would be able to watch the game and point the things he has changed in the way we play. I sure can't.

i really don't think this is the issue myself, it's the quality of player rafa is having to put in key positions in his regular formation diame was behind gayle yesterday and looked decent, we created chances...colback and hayden are a very limited central pairing in an attacking sense and colback in every sense of course, but until they got a foothold in the game we were more than comfortable colback then pushed the abort button and had to come off so diame has to go back central as there's no one else, perez takes his spot and does nothing in the short time he's given which is not a surprise as his form is rubbish i've personally been a massive critic of our managers crying about needing new players in the last few years but we really do need them in key places such as CM and someone with pace that can play wide and behind gayle...the distinction being that rafa is about the system and he won't deviate from that so the only way we progress given a number of the players aren't good enough is to upgrade to players that are capable I don't think it's the quality of the players as such. It's the type of players and the way we play. Teams have realised that all they need to do is defend deep to eliminate Gayle's space and we look clueless. We've been good away from home because most teams are a bit more aggressive at home and he has more space. It would make so much more sense to play a physical striker against sides like that and let Gayle use the space created by that striker tying defenders to himself. It scares me that Rafa is banging his head against the wall. It'll only get harder from here.

It's very simple why. Rafa wants a mobile striker up front as that is a key part of his 4231 formation to work, otherwise the number 10 player needs to play further forward. A key part for that to work is that your opponent tries to play football. If they sit back it doesn't matter how mobile the striker is as there is no space at all. And at that point you have to change something. Gayle - Mitro - Ritchie

Rafa spends most of the game telling us to be more narrow. Probably smart considering they can't cross for shit and when they happen to get the ball past the first man it's Gayle vs two tall center backs. Getting to the crossing positions out wide isn't a problem.

I wouldn't compare this defeat to the likes of Wednesday where we mostly hoofed the ball to a midget all game and sat deep when defending. I thought we played very well in the first half. I was pleased with what Rafa had changed. We were actively trying to win the ball back higher up the pitch and turn the play back at them closer to their goal. I haven't seen a lot of our games for obvious reasons this season but from what I've seen this was a big improvement and probably something that losing Shelvey has influenced. With him on the team we have creativity to break teams down on the slower attack but without him we struggle if we sit deep and win the ball near our own goal and have the whole pitch to move through. That seemed to lead to a lot of long balls which there were less today. Especially during the first half. Not sure what happened during the 2nd half. We seemed to sit a bit deeper and you could see the same thing happening as against Wednesday: Gayle urging everyone to push up and press them. Something that didn't happen once during the first half because we we're on them all the time when we lost the ball. Maybe they just got tired. The real worrying thing is that we should never be in a situation where losing one player completely destroys your first choice game plan. The quality of midfielders behind Jonjo is appalling and has to be the first thing we fix this month. And you can moan about the team selection but considering the problem is center midfield, what options do we really have from the bench that could bring some fresh legs there?

Take Colback off and replace him with no one just to make a point.

Colback you're fucking ridiculous.

Compare the way we try to win the ball back to the Sheffield Wednesday game. Huge difference in tactics.

The most positive thing I took from that half was that Rafa has clearly responded to our last couple games. We've been pretty shit with slow build up without Jonjo so it seems to me we're now trying to win the ball back a lot higher up the pitch. The whole team is pressing and not dropping back after losing posession. Winning the ball back in transition makes the pitch so much shorter to attack which seems to be helping our lack of creativity. What still worries me is that losing one player is effecting our play so much against one of the worst sides in the league. That's not a great position to be in and needs adressing this month.

What? He came on for 10 minutes vs Wednesday and was exactly what we had been crying out for for the whole match. Before that we had been blasting long balls to Gayle who competed for every fifth one and for the rest just hoped the defender completely misses his header so he could be through on goal....

It's been apparent for the last couple games that without Shelvey we need to change something and if he's not changing the personnel then it has to be the gameplan. Very interested to see what happens. If we still play the same way I'm starting to get a bit worried.

How? Either he did it and there is evidence that week or he never. How can it take 3 months. It could of dragged on that long it would of looked even more of a joke if he was found not guilty Thank f*** you're not on a jury. "All the evidence points to him being guilty but it happened a few months ago and not last week so he must be not guilty" There obviously is no evidence or it wouldn't of took 3 months. Last I heard it was just 2 of our players words against 2 wolves players. I would rather side with ours There is obviously evidence or they wouldn't have found him guilty at all

Boohoo it took them too long to give a penalty to a racist player. Poor Jonjo.

Five games https://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/statement-jonjo-shelvey

A bit surprising this: http://thesetpieces.com/features/running-premier-league-social-media-account/

Everytime I write something negative we score. Love it. Should have booed when I was there for the Blackburn game.

Are we going to start playing when we concede or whats the plan?

This is like the third game I've seen this season but do we always play so passively in defense and sit so deep?