tmonkey

So why is he feigning injury then? Is that actually true? The real question is, if its not true that he hasn't injured himself, why has he not decided to lie about being honest?

So why is he feigning injury then?

Who else is going to pay him £100k+ per week? Liverpool won't & he'll not be ahead of Keane & Torres so would he sign for them knowing that he'd be 3rd or 4th choice? Same goes at Man Ure, Arsenal & Chelski. Citeh can buy another Robinho-type player & Sven's not there now so that's probably not going to happen. That pretty much leaves Everton (would they pay the wages, would an ex-Liverpool player play for Everton?) Villa (again, would they be willing to pay his wages? Who would they drop to accommodate him?) Portsmouth (they'd pay his wages & he's old enough for them) Spurs (the only team in a worse position than us, that takes some doing) West Ham (there are Big Issue sellers with more money them West Ham) He could end up joining any one of those teams but I feel that he'd either not be first choice at any of them or they'd simply not want him due to his age, injuries & wages. Having said that, I expect he'll be off in January. Owen would walk into the Liverpool team right now ahead of Robbie Keane. And given Rafa Benitez's squad rotation policy, the number of games they'll play, the likelihood of injuries to Keane, Torres, Gerrard, etc etc, the fact that Owen can quite clearly play in an attacking midfield role or a deep lying role - I dont think for a second he wouldn't play the vast majority of games in a season over there. Its extremely difficult to see Liverpool not wanting him. It's a no brainer for them. Their fans would be over the moon about his return, and if he keeps his current form up, those that were disgruntled/bitter at the way their talisman at the time left them will barely remember that episode - all they'll see is that the man who helped them to win trophies for the first time in ages, a player who was European Footballer of the Year with them, formerly the nation's best goalscorer, thats who they'll be picking up on a free. It'd be a big coup for Gillett/Hicks and Rafa because of that potential move being very likely to be such a crowd pleaser. Look at the way the majority of Liverpool fans (working on perception here, maybe the real fans felt differently?) creamed themselves over the return of Robbie Fowler. Even the media turned their attention to the return of the crowd's favourite son and nothing else. All the criticisms of transfer policies, squad rotation frequency, Spaniards being signed, etc etc. And this was when Robbie Fowler was dogshit by then. As for Owen's wages, I'm pretty sure they're not a part of the equation. Back when we were first linked heavily, he outright ruled us out because he was only interested in the CL teams. And hence, he only ended up with us because none of those teams wanted him and the only one that did had been heavily outbid, which resulted in Owen not being willing to call Madrid's bluff. Hence, the choice at the time was mammoth wages with us vs good wages but CL football in a good side surrounded by quality players. He wanted to go for the latter but was forced into the former.

Holy shit what a goal from Wigan's Valencia.

Not really. Marcelino, Babayaro, etc etc. Very doubtful that Martins is faking an injury, however given the apparent tone of his statement regarding Keegan's resignation and the players being upset/some wanting to leave, I dont think it's all that impossible that he's pulling a sickie.

Fair enough, but were those times not blighted by niggly injuries here and there? A fully fit Owen with games under his belt Is better than anything we have had up front since Shearer pre 97 imo. Possibly (re: injuries), however he still looks more dangerous when he drops deep imo. Disagree to an extent with your second comment. He might have been a prick and isn't remembered fondley because of the fallout with Shearer during the episode where the club's name was dragged through the mud yet again, Craig Bellamy was a fantastic player for us in the Premiership, a player who gave us another dimension whenever he played. Owen may be the classier player and Bellamy yesterday's man, but Bellamy was extremely effective imo, to the extent that he often changed the way the entire opposition backline played their game. On a side note, although plenty of our fans think he was s*** because they recall his spell with us as opposed to his spell at AC Milan, John Dahl Tomasson was an excellent attacking midfielder slash deep forward who's movement was similar to that of Owen's - very difficult to pick up, not the most gifted player but very competent on the ball and consistent once inside the box. IMO I see Owen as having developed into that type of player lately, a better version because he's a better footballer than Tomasson, and although he still might be useful as the target-man forward waiting to be slipped through on goal, I hope we play him in the attacking midfield spot until the end of the season because of his potency there, and hopefully longer as the formation/system is pretty unique outside of a handful of other teams - although the sceptical side of me says that he's already gone, a decision made long before the current mess was created.

His poor performances up front prior to switching roles are pretty quickly being forgotten. He's a class act playing from deep, and for that I hope he recognises and appreciates that Kevin Keegan has almost certainly given him a new lease of life. What poor performances? He's always looked a class act in a black and white shirt. Sure he may have not been involved much in some games whilst playing high up front but this was the fault of his team mates being unable to produce for him rather than him simply having bad games. I am yet to see him have a game where his touch and distribution are not spot on. The ones that caused Keegan to switch his position/role in the team. He was spending most of the game doing nothing up front, winning no headers, unable to hold the ball up adequately enough, failing to convert the few chances that did come to him, looking slow and poor in his finishing/shooting range, etc etc. I'm not going to dig up the threads surrounding Owen's poor form at the time, but I can assure you there were plenty who saw it, as it was pretty obvious his diminshing pace was hurting his game when he returned from his second major injury with us. In terms of blaming the rest of the team for a "lack of service", fair enough we we're pretty s*** under the likes of Big Sam, but at the same time its a common excuse for strikers who are providing little for the team to actually work with in the first place - you cant provide service to a striker who cant get away from his marker, and its difficult to regularly provide service to a striker who makes little runs that require world class through balls to be picked out. Owen's lack of pace or strength in the striking role that he was playing for us made it difficult to service him when centrebacks were marking him tightly. For example, even though we're s*** right now and weren't that good under Keegan due to the squad he inherited, we could all see that Alan Smith was struggling badly, and if he finds great form tomorrow or next year in different circumstances, I dont think it'd be an accurate statement to say his poor form previously was down to the team not providing lots of chances. Conversely, now that Owen is making runs from deep with other strikers doing the required jobs up front, he's far more difficult to pick up, and is considerably more dangerous - it's added a new dimension to his game, one that is compensating for him losing his pace. On top of being more difficult to pick up, he's actually contributing to the team now when hes not on the end of a chance, the opposite of which was a major problem when he was up front (effectively playing with 10 men alot of the time). And as we can see, that contribution is pretty good given his consistency in his touch, passing and awareness.

His poor performances up front prior to switching roles are pretty quickly being forgotten. He's a class act playing from deep, and for that I hope he recognises and appreciates that Kevin Keegan has almost certainly given him a new lease of life.

Cahill deservedly sent off - wasn't a red card tackle, but he's a dirty cunt and rightly his reputation has worked against him.

Everton vs Liverpool on SS1 - half an hour gone, going to be a tight game this.

We need to start with Xisco alongside e.g. Duff if we have to, purely to play Owen in midfield. He's the only player we currently have capable who we can rely on for consistency in his basic game, and that becomes nullified when he's up front.

People save money, the board gets the message, players start to appreciate how important fans are to the game, etc etc.

Does it stack up if it read something like: Ashley says no to Keegan. Keegan says he'll kick Ashley's head in and bully his children in school. Ashley agrees to do as Keegan wishes. Ashley says no to the Arab investment group. The group say they'll kick Ashley's head in and have his children bullied at school. Ashley agrees to do sell the club. Ashley says no to Venables. Venables says he'll kick Ashley's head in and bully his children at school. Ashley appoints Venables as manager. etc etc. Totally losing sight of why Ashley would say no to those parties yet sell as soon as the fans turned on him. Ashley is quite clearly someone who does what he likes and does them his way - but he bought the club to be one of the fans, which he no longer can be, not with all the paranoid fans itching to blame him for everything wrong with the summer because Keegan walked and someone at the club (probably Llambias) decided to put out a few dirty stories/statements.

What did the protests achieve exactly? All it did was provoke Ashley into publicly putting the club up for sale, which has left us in limbo. If it had never happened we may have had a new manager by now. Quite a few of us said protests would make the situation worse, don't shoot us for being right. A new manager would have just got in the way when Ashley sold the club which he's been trying to do all year. When giving him a chance it was easy to believe his denials even when the NY firm confirmed talks but now I know what a liar he is its obvious there was something to all those reports. All the protests/fallout have done is bring matters to a head. Source? I thought he had been putting people like Ambani and the new City owners off. The protests haven't brought anything to a head, we're just as confused, befuddled, and bewildered as ever. Didn't John Gibson write an article the other week about some consortium moving in a few months ago but Ashley wouldn't even speak with them? It'll all fall on deaf ears anyway. Even Keegan's own, direcly quoted words regarding Ashley are totally ignored. Had Keegan thought Ashley was a devious piece of shit, he'd never had said what he did regarding Ashley.

I'm not saying the fans are fully to blame but some need to look at themselves. Remember that vitriol that Allardyce faced after only a few months (Liverpool at home)? Managers, especially in this country, will have noted something like that. I'm not saying the fans are perfect and have acted with complete dignity throughout this. But put it this way, nobody was against Ashley until Keegan felt he had to walk out. Well, apart from NE5. Most were at least content with the way we were moving forward, on and off the pitch. The fans are NOT responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in as a club. They have to shoulder some of the blame though. 'Some' being the key word. They probably overreacted to possibly our best ever manager walking out throwing the club into turmoil. No surprise whatsoever. The way some people on here go on you'd think everything was brilliant before the Hull game and I'm bored of it. As a group the fans are way down on the 'these people f***ed up' list. Certainly we've had a part to play in the situation with the campaigning and cockney mafia stuff. Because of our reaction, the volatile man that is Ashley made that premature statement of selling the club, which has now created the situation whereby even Terry Venables is not interested in the job. He's done exactly what the fans were campaigning for, and now we're suffering for it. No doubt Ashley should have ignored the protests, kept quiet, appointed a new manager, then sold the club behind the scenes if that was his true aim. And no doubt there are other people responsible for Keegan walking out. But theres a missing step in between Keegan walking out and the club becoming such a mess that it cant even appoint someone shit like Venables. As per his official statement, Ashley has listened to the fans and given us what we want. We cant campaign for something, then expect to be absolved of any blame when that campaign is a success. But then, we like to have our cake and eat it too...

Naturally alot of this is based on speculation, assumptions, one person's word vs another's silence, etc etc, but based on his playing career and media personality, he comes across as someone who: 1) Puts his own interests first, e.g. the way he got that record by abusing his reputation ("play me or I quit") and ensuring other partnerships never got a chance, 2) Falls out with and isolates players he dislikes, as per Ruud Gullitt's comments, and on the face of it has played a big part in ousting several managers and the appointment of some s*** ones, 3) Is utterly boring when he opens his mouth, listening to him is the equivalent of watching paint dry, complete contrast to Keegan, 4) Would probably never use/purchase a flair player because as a player he allegedly deemed flair unneccessary, 5) Would probably create a hard working side that kicks players off the pitch since thats easier to do, as in the Big-Sam style "up the arse!" tactics he enjoyed against Arsenal, 6) Never really came across as a great captain. Certainly didn't seem to be very motivational on the pitch, as many fans/critics pointed out, especially towards the end of his career. 7) Would have favourites who he'd keep on until the end, irrespective of diminishing performances. That's how he merely comes across - all of those could be argued against, bullshit, etc etc, but the point is that he comes across as that type of person. Scoring 150 league goals for us and coming from the area doesnt mean he cant be a ruthless c*** in private. Had he gone ManU, he would have won numerous trophies, but he'd have been benched by the time he was 33, and probably sold at the time based on his performances. With us, he had the comfort zone of being undroppable no matter how bad his performances become, with the club and its fans wrapped around his finger, and it's something that was simply unfair from a philosophical point of view - no player should ever be untouchable. Did Giggs throw a strop when ManU purchased Nani? Hence, would he have the same small-club mentality as a manager? Even the way he's just sitting around doing nothing to earn the job, whilst most of his fellow pros are doing the opposite, and just expecting it to be handed to him gives me an awkward impression of him. He's using his influence/power with the fans to full effect, to the extent that it's almost an abuse of power. Just like his playing career. He had no interest in the Blackburn job for example earlier on in the summer, back when Keegan was happy with everything at St James' and everything seemed to be rosy - he could have been waiting for five years for all he knew. But Blackburn aren't a club with the potential/fanbase/facilities to break into the elite, so he had no interest - either that or he's simply not interested in anything other than the Newcastle job. At the same time, the notion that he wants the job but has rejected it a few times and will only take it when things are rosy suggest he just wants to bask in the glory of someone else having done the groundwork whilst he gets the credit for it, i.e. he's not up for a real challenge. He doesn't want to create the situation of us being a success, he wants it to be handed to him signed, sealed, and nearly delivered. When Ashley bought the club and sacked Allardyce, i.e. when our future looked very bright with a new billionare owner, Shearer was quick to accept the possibility of being NUFC manager (allegedly) and then just as quick to accept the possibility of being Keegan's number 2 with us - again, only interested in the job when our situation is good or bright. Another contrast to Keegan, who took on a club on the brink of relegation to the old Third Division. That's not to knock what he does, or should, bring to the table - determination, respected, knowing what to say to the media, model professional, "football smart" etc etc. There's also the spell as Roeder's assistant that suggests he might be good, would ensure we play a basic 4-4-2 winger system and attack the opposition, but that was a very brief spell and those results we're pretty average in the first place.

Tony Adams: Manages a lower league team, coaches a good youth side abroad for a year or two, now deputising Harry Redknapp. Roy Keane: Takes the plunge and manages a Championship side with decent funding, promotes them to the Premiership, stabilises them to an extent. Mark Hughes: Manages what is essentially a smaller international side, does well, goes to Rovers, does alright, goes to City. Alan Shearer: Becomes a useless pundit, sits around waiting for - or probably expecting - the job to be handed to him. Maybe he has it in him to be a good manager, but he's not exactly showing much hunger or desire to become that.

£14m for Pavlyuchenko. Fuck me.

Bassong and Corluka, sitting in a tree...

Duff, just fucking play instead of stopping every second touch of the ball.

Not sure why Cacapa is getting stick for being played there. It's not like he's played there before for us that often, meaning we can judge him as being a s*** anchor midfielder. In fact, his spell as centreback for us showed that his reading of the game is good, his touch is good, his composure is good, his positioning is good - he's just not very good at the aerial/physical battle that you occassionally get in the Premiership. On paper, he'd make a pretty decent backup central midfielder, with the only real downside being that he doesn't have the legs to match those of other central midfielders littered about in the Premiership.

Pavlyuchecnko's debut was one of the worst i've seen for a £10m+ player (Luque's was pretty good against ManU). Long may it continue.

And they completely ignored the similarly awful pass backwards by Duff.

What KK has shown is that theres a massive gap in calibre between a good coach like him, and shit ones like Souness, Roeder and Allardyce.

Would it not make a difference if Ashley had bought the club to enjoy it while the others had bought into a club as a business decision? He's hardly going to get any enjoyment out of supporting us now after the protests. If he'd bought it to enjoy it, he wouldn't be scrimping and saving on Michael Owen's wages while putting hundreds of millions on spread betting. I don't know what his motive was and I couldn't really give a f*** anymore. I just don't want to go down and that's where these world class players he's bought are taking us (through very little fault of their own I might add). We dont know what the situation is with Owen's contract in terms of what has been offered. Not sure either whether Ashley deserves that much criticism for the Owen situation. What makes anyone think that Owen has, or had, any intention of signing a new contract? Keegan or no Keegan, increased wages or decreased wages, Owen's future with us is most likely in Owen's hands alone, and bar holding a gun to his head, what can Ashley do if Owen's made up his mind about leaving at the end of the seaosn? Judging by the fact that his agents tried to engineer a move before the start of last season, combined with the outright dismissal of us as an option when we were first linked with him, along with the way he left Liverpool for a bigger club and in the process left a club that had nurtured him at a time when they were winning trophies and in the top four (just about), there's every indication that he never had any intention to extend his stay with us regardless of whether we were showing good improvement or not. Conversely, he's not made a definate statement of wanting to stay with us either, other than the generic responses of "its a big club, fans are great, i'll be looking into it, will discuss it, will let you know". If he's as ambitious as he was when we first signed him, whether that be club ambitions or international ambitions, then we had no chance of getting him to extend his contract, and none of that is Ashley's fault - he took over a shit team with a shit manager appointed, and unless he's expected to pump £60m of his own money into the club's transfer kitty (plus the same amount for additional wages probably), then there's no way anyone could have turned around the mess left by the Shepherd era within 8 months to the extent that Owen would be willing to stay (as things stand). Completely unreasonable to pin this on Ashley, based on current information anyway. Also, as a side note, 3 days before the transfer window closed Keegan said three things: 1) That he was happy with the players brought in, that they were of good quality and that the fans would be happy with them. Following the Milner sale, which he stated to be his decision, he put his reputation on the line by telling the fans to trust him because they'd be happy with what we'd end up with. 2) That he was looking to sign good players only, and that if they were unable to make up the numbers because the good players weren't available, "then so be it". He also said there might be more sales. 3) That the owner was great, committed to the club, and that things were going well. Fans had nothing to worry about, and if they did, he'd be the first to tell the fans.