wacko

"[vuvuzelas] reflect 'the sound of Africa'". If I were African, I'd be going spare at comments like that. It's like saying Chas and Dave reflect the sound of Britain. FFS. That sounds shit anyway. Just commentary? We are complaining about the lack of atmosphere, so this doesn't really fix it. However, well done to BBC for taking some action instead of the South Africans being stubborn. Deffo, but it looks like the only action they can take is cutting out all of the stadium sounds, which will probably worsen the problem (except in the case of South Africa games). There was some article in the Spiegel about the technological difficulties of just filtering out the vuvuzelas. That surprised me, because I thought they'd be able to tune them out relatively easily given the monotonous, one-tone nature of the din.

We will buy you a vuvuzela. He can have mine. Bored of it.

And some South Americans pelt the field with missiles, then invade it and have mass punch-ups. Would that be okay, too?

"[vuvuzelas] reflect 'the sound of Africa'". If I were African, I'd be going spare at comments like that. It's like saying Chas and Dave reflect the sound of Britain. FFS.

Too right. You don't invite a load of vegetarians around for dinner and then serve up steak tartar while showing 'em the photos from that bullfight you went to.

Tooting on a vuvuzela is the instrumental equivalent of standing there and going "Mmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggg!" for the entire match.

Uwe Seelers = shit.

Hardly surprising, TBH, given German attitudes to nationality. With darker-skinned players, it's not unusual for them to be referred to as German when doing something good, and as Turkish/Nigerian/whatever when fucking up.

I call shenanigans! Good on Rafa, though. Millions or not, he didn't have to do that.

Arbeloa, probably. Rafa might have been after someone else, though. I don't know/remember. Alonso was our best, most important player. More so than Gerrard or even Torres. The heart of the side. Even if he did have an iffy season in 2007/8, trying to swap him for Barry was nuts. I think it's quite likely we'd have got into the CL this season if he hadn't left. He was that important.

You're probably right on the money there. Really interesting articles. Especially the stats on Italy. Wages reached 100% of turnover in 2001, and Serie A hasn't even broken even except in 2006. Unbelievable. Interesting that the EPL as a whole makes money, though not much, and especially that the Bundesliga makes nearly twice as much when there's nowhere near as much cash washing around, and it's cheap as chips to go to German stadia (you can get into most Bundesliga games for under £10). Footie wages are ridiculous, but it's also refreshing to see an industry where the actual workers take home the big money, instead of the pointy-haired bosses. I'm all for clubs being forced to break even longer-term, but I'm against actual wage caps. It's not as if ticket prices would actually drop: all the cash would go into Ashley's/Glazer's/etc. pockets instead. Does anyone know exactly what Chelsea's debt is? Loans from Abramovich? I think they stand to lose most under new restrictions. In Man Utd's and our case, the losses/debt are a result of the purchase of the clubs, in Chelsea's case, it's their actual business model.

Basically, Keane was supposed to be an accessory to Barry. When the Barry transfer fell through, Keane was surplus to requirements. Possible to expand on that? Just makes little sense to an outsider - i.e. why would signing Barry make any difference to the £20m Keane signing? Not only was the fee vastly inflated, but Keane was always unlikely to fit into the system Rafa prefers (Barry or no Barry). If the plan was to switch to 4-4-2 and have Keane as a partner to Torres, how did Rafa hope to achieve this by adding Barry to the central midfield squad whilst at the same time lacking good quality wingers (and Gerrard having proved to be ineffective in central midfield compared to playing in front of two central midfielders)? To make matters worse, he was signed iirc a short while after you got rid of Bellamy, who is pretty similar to Keane (in terms of the type of forward that he is) but twice as good and far more versatile. If Bellamy struggled in a Rafa system, what made Rafa think that spending £20m on an inferior version of Bellamy would work? Bellamy wanted out. He just wasn't into Rafa's follow-my-instructions-to-the-letter gameplans. From what I recall, I think Keane was supposed to do pretty much what he does, scampering around the edge of the box and feed off Barry on the left of a midfield diamond. At a guess, something nominally like this: Keane Torres Gerrard Barry Kuyt () Mascherano And presumably with the full-backs providing the width. That might be a load of cobblers, but it's the best explanation I've heard for what happened with Keane.

I think they'd do a pretty good job of filling the stadium on account of the number of people who simply can't get tickets for the more desirable games. Obviously, under most circumstances they'd make more money in the CL, but the EC is not necessarily *that* far behind in potential revenue. Hardly. Indeed, we'll struggle to make the kind of money we made in the CL under Rafa, because we often got very, very far, and the straight-into-EC route is automatically worth maybe £10m less than the CL-to-EC route just in terms of being there. That said, assuming we get a good manager to replace Rafa, we've got a very good chance of winning it. And an EC win is probably worth more to us financially than a second-round or quarter-final exit from the CL, which is a far more realistic result for our side now we don't have a master of European footie in charge.

Actually, that's likely wrong. There are more games in the Europa League, and in Man Utd's case, the additional gate receipts would likely outweigh the higher prize money. You must be joking, a few extra games isn't going to make up for Champions League prize/TV money. Not to mention I seriously doubt they'd regularly fill their stadium for Europa League games. It's not that simple. It really isn't. Firstly, Europa Cup prizes are up 400% on UEFA Cup prizes. The CL is still worth 3 times as much in terms of prize money alone, but the difference is only €16m (between the winners of each competition). That's 4 games' worth of gate receipts for Man Utd. The market pool (TV money) is more complex, because it's divvied up according to complex rules involving where you placed in the league, and how far you got in the CL/Europa Cup compared to other clubs from your country. If all the teams from your league reach at least the quarters and two reach the semis, that bites into your cut an awful lot. As English clubs seem to do much better in the CL than the Europa Cup, there's potentially a much larger slice of a much smaller pie to be had in the EC. The CL TV pot might be huge, but in recent seasons it has been divided up quite evenly between the English sides. A significant factor is also how you get into the Europa Cup. If you fail into it out of the CL group stage, you'll make a lot more than if you go straight into the EC. Finally, you've obviously got a much better chance of winning the Europa Cup. All the above figures are based on winning the final and every game on the way there. Even the very, very best sides reach the CL semis only 50-60% of the time, whereas, as we demonstrated this season, even a side that fails to get out of the CL group stage and struggles to stay in the Euro places in the EPL has a good chance of success in the EC. All things being equal, winning the CL is worth a lot more money than winning the EC, but all things are not equal, and it's perfectly possible to earn nearly as much or possibly more in the EC, depending on circumstances.

Basically, Keane was supposed to be an accessory to Barry. When the Barry transfer fell through, Keane was surplus to requirements.

Actually, that's likely wrong. There are more games in the Europa League, and in Man Utd's case, the additional gate receipts would likely outweigh the higher prize money.

You can't pay off £1.1bn with the winnings from the league and the CL. Wouldn't even cover the interest.

Like I say, control freak. Stay solid, keep your shape, take no unnecessary risks. The side only played good football when they were allowed to cut loose, which was only when we were already up shit creek.

£1.1bn??? That makes me feel much better.

That was in anticipation of UEFA's new rules on homegrown players. Still mental.

It all show up on the books ultimately, though. They had something on SSN before saying they were going to have something in place which wouldn't allow this. how can they not allow it? if a company wants to sponsor man city for an extremely large amount of cash per season i dont see how they can stop it Maybe they can't, but they can stop such a team from participating in European competitions. so are uefa saying theres an upper limit to club sponsorship deals? don't see how they could get away with that tbh There's no limit. But attempts to bypass the rules by owners handing out huge sponsorship contracts to their clubs from other companies they own will be checked by an independent watchdog panel appointed by UEFA to ensure they are not paying above the market rate. then that begs the question what is market rate? who determines what market rate is? I can see these regulations getting challenged in court if man city or some other team in a similar position is not allowed into cl thanks to these Sponsors decide the market rate. I can't see an owner trying to bend the rules by pumping funds into the club via another of their companies then wanting that kind of thing scrutinised in detail in court. They'll find a way, though. Say, like the Real deal, where their worthless training ground was bought for several times its actual value. In fact, Real should really be the most hard-hit club of the lot, if they actually follow through. Which they won't, because it's Real Madrid.

That's Gerrard. He'd make a terrible manager.

Those words are really going to bite you in the arse, TT. I know you are speaking from a vast amount of experience there but at 26 and with the only man who had faith in him gone, his chance in English football is going to be limited especially with his injury record. He's not a bad footballer, just someone you wouldn't pay serious amounts of money for as he's likely to miss 70% of the season through injury. Typical Newcastle player of old in that respects. You never know. Rafa was never one to give a player much time to find his feet or improve his game. One of his biggest failings, IMO. What about Lucas? Only ever seen when Xabi was rested or gone. Those words are really going to bite you in the arse, TT. I know you are speaking from a vast amount of experience there but at 26 and with the only man who had faith in him gone, his chance in English football is going to be limited especially with his injury record. He's not a bad footballer, just someone you wouldn't pay serious amounts of money for as he's likely to miss 70% of the season through injury. Typical Newcastle player of old in that respects. You never know. Rafa was never one to give a player much time to find his feet or improve his game. One of his biggest failings, IMO. True, and why his squad turned their back on him when they realised they had a chance of getting him out of the club. Chances are though injuries will come and get the lad again, if he was picking them up so frequently in Italy, the rough and ready style of the prem is going to be even more strain on his frail body. I think the main reason the players turned on him to the extent they did is that Rafa had no relationship to any of the players as people. He treated them like a plumber treats his tools. You can suck that up when you're winning, but success was pretty much the only thing underpinning whatever loyalty the players felt to Rafa. I remember comments coming from Gerrard in the first year Rafa arrived that he missed the friendship he had with Houillier, and Rafa was more a boss than a friend, it was along those lines no doubt not them words. His man management skills certainly could have done with tweaking, but again his stubbornness wouldn't let him see any fault to the way he deals with players on or off the pitch. His man-management skills are non-existant. I'm not exaggerating; he has literally none. Carra has said he's never had a conversation with Rafa that wasn't about football, and after we beat Chelsea in the 2005 CL semi (I think it was that game, but in any case it was a fucking big one), he saw Rafa coming onto the pitch, and assumed he wanted to congratulate him. Instead, he started going on about how Carra had failed to track a player back 3 minutes previously. Clearly. Reduced to considering an offer from the European champions. I hope he doesn't do himself in.

Those words are really going to bite you in the arse, TT. I know you are speaking from a vast amount of experience there but at 26 and with the only man who had faith in him gone, his chance in English football is going to be limited especially with his injury record. He's not a bad footballer, just someone you wouldn't pay serious amounts of money for as he's likely to miss 70% of the season through injury. Typical Newcastle player of old in that respects. You never know. Rafa was never one to give a player much time to find his feet or improve his game. One of his biggest failings, IMO. What about Lucas? Only ever seen when Xabi was rested or gone. Those words are really going to bite you in the arse, TT. I know you are speaking from a vast amount of experience there but at 26 and with the only man who had faith in him gone, his chance in English football is going to be limited especially with his injury record. He's not a bad footballer, just someone you wouldn't pay serious amounts of money for as he's likely to miss 70% of the season through injury. Typical Newcastle player of old in that respects. You never know. Rafa was never one to give a player much time to find his feet or improve his game. One of his biggest failings, IMO. True, and why his squad turned their back on him when they realised they had a chance of getting him out of the club. Chances are though injuries will come and get the lad again, if he was picking them up so frequently in Italy, the rough and ready style of the prem is going to be even more strain on his frail body. I think the main reason the players turned on him to the extent they did is that Rafa had no relationship to any of the players as people. He treated them like a plumber treats his tools. You can suck that up when you're winning, but success was pretty much the only thing underpinning whatever loyalty the players felt to Rafa.

Those words are really going to bite you in the arse, TT. I know you are speaking from a vast amount of experience there but at 26 and with the only man who had faith in him gone, his chance in English football is going to be limited especially with his injury record. He's not a bad footballer, just someone you wouldn't pay serious amounts of money for as he's likely to miss 70% of the season through injury. Typical Newcastle player of old in that respects. You never know. Rafa was never one to give a player much time to find his feet or improve his game. One of his biggest failings, IMO.