merlin

Pardew as well, probably.....he's a slow learner..!

Ashley has NOT succeeded in creating low expectations and apathy among all fans - I am certainly not satisfied with either his running of the club apart from keeping the club debt free by his loan, or his selection of staff to run the playing side. I suspect that the majority of younger fans have fallen for his plan because they have not seen much better from the club and they are the ones prepared to turn a blind eye to what is happening because they are blindly loyal to the club. Ashley will reap the whirlwind of what he has sown if the club have another bad season ; you will see ST sales drop dramatically next summer if this happens again because those middle-aged and older fans will lose patience and only go to selected matches. Don't think it couldn't happen - ST sales were down to 20,000 before SJH and KK took over..... We've been in the bottom half or the Championship 7 of the last 9 seasons since SBR was sacked from his position. Newcastle as a lower tier club is nothing new to anyone. Season ticket sales will drop if the team is poor, but can you really see people leaving en masse if the team is still in the Premiership? A few seasons in the lower divisions would probably half it though. Were you following the club in the 80s or early 90s ? What about 15 years ago ? The history of NUFC did not begin after SBR was sacked. Didn't you read my comment about younger fans propping the club up ? The reason NUFC has so many fans is BECAUSE it used to be a club playing attractive football and has a great history. Had the club always been as big a joke as it is now, we would probably be getting around 25,000 at best. Sheffield Weds and Wolves were once great clubs and well supported......

That's the worrying thing. Loads of bullshit coming from Kinnear and Pardew - nothing from the owner, bodies being shipped out and no-one coming in. It's hard to see anything beyond a relegation fight, at this moment in time. The club is dying again, IMO. Not far off from what happened when KK walked. If you are talking about when KK walked in 2008, then you are spot on, although I think its even worse now because everyone in football has Ashley weighed up and not many decent managers would work for him whereas had he made a decent effort in 2008 there was still a chance of getting a half-decent replacement. No chance now, and unless the club is sold, the fans have little to look forward to in the foreseeable future. Its even worse than when KK left as a player and then Arthur Cox resigned because the board wouldn't let him spend on new players just after we got promoted in 1984 - at least we had Beardsley and Waddle, with Gazza coming through then....we have nothing like that base now although a good manager could do far better with this squad than Pardew.

Ashley has NOT succeeded in creating low expectations and apathy among all fans - I am certainly not satisfied with either his running of the club apart from keeping the club debt free by his loan, or his selection of staff to run the playing side. I suspect that the majority of younger fans have fallen for his plan because they have not seen much better from the club and they are the ones prepared to turn a blind eye to what is happening because they are blindly loyal to the club. Ashley will reap the whirlwind of what he has sown if the club have another bad season ; you will see ST sales drop dramatically next summer if this happens again because those middle-aged and older fans will lose patience and only go to selected matches. Don't think it couldn't happen - ST sales were down to 20,000 before SJH and KK took over.....

What does that even mean? You mean the people who didn't rate his managerial record, disliked his style of football and saw it as completely unsustainable and inevitably saw his shortcomings brought to light. Proper "hipster" that, judging someone on their managerial ability Well im guessing we all pretty much looked in disgust when Pardew was announced and he admitted himself he had the fans to win over. He won me over and a fair few more but you still had that certain section that even after a 5th place finish wasn't good enough and we were still s*** and Pardew needed to go, so you're never going to win them ones over. However the people who enjoyed the success of a 5th place finished, looked forward to Europe and generally felt excited to push on but only to be let down by a horrific season, now seemingly hate Pardew again like he first arrived. Those are the fans that i'm not sure will fall in the same trap again if he does have another successful season. Holding hands up and saying Pards has done well for a second time isn't something i can see fans doing easily. I think everyone enjoyed finishing 5th and I don't think anyone denied he'd done well overall. But some people could still see the problems coming, that's all. There were certain warning signs that season of what a clueless coward the man is (wolves 2:2 was a prime example*). But yeah the people he did win over completely will be harder to win over a second time, and with good reason. * 2-1 obviously but without an incorrect decision they would have equalised. Equally other games he set up lead to better than expected results that season, due to his more defensive mentality & our strength upfront. We were very hard to beat. It really depends on whatever narrative people have about something. If you're looking to dislike pardew he will give you the reasons to do so, from a balanced pov he has good & bad points. Hard to beat.. Did you go to Siberia when the Liverpool, Sunderland and Man C debacles occurred ?? If you want a balanced point of view, look at his CV....

Sad, but true - get used to it, though, because we are stuck with this for a long time.......

Bent is perfect for Pardew, we'll look for him every time we get the ball and we'll spend 4 days working on our defence. Bent will be a lazy but safe signing for a clueless manager as we'll be able to get goals and he'll not take up a great deal of our resources. We will continue to lag behind the rest of the Top 10 PL sides as along as Pardew is manager. You got this one spot on, Mick - as did Decky with his comment about Bent's injury record. I bet Lambert is rubbing his hands at the prospect of Pardew's - er, sorry - Kinnear's phone call..

Just look at our side in general, think about our players, think about our potential starting 11 even if we didn't sign anyone but kept everyone, how many teams would you swap it for? Norwich/Swansea/Southampton? (These are the ones everyone keeps banging on about). Last season was a complete write off, yes Pardew made a lot of mistakes last year, the players never had a run of confidence, we seem to brush of the fact we did have a lot injuries and the Europa league was a distraction regardless if different players played Thursday/Sunday, we brush this off as Pardew pointed this out to be a problem so we say it's an excuse. I don't see how anyone looking out our team strongly believes we won't be near top 10, personally i have no doubt we will be in it, i can't see us hitting the heights of 5th but with our team as it stands, it's still a f***ing good one nonetheless. Couple of signings would be nice to give us all a massive boost, we don’t expect anything from Man City so as long as we don’t get a tanking we have the fixtures to get off to a very good start then from there on anything is possible once good momentum and confidence is flowing. Look again at the sides you have quoted - yes, we may have better players but lets be honest - most of us would swap Pardew for at least 2 of those teams' manager. You can have all the decent players you want - and we are far from perfect throughout the side - but if you have a crap manager its just a waste of talent. Pardew is still here and even if he goes, we are unlikely to get a half-decent replacement unless Ashley has worked something out with, say, Poyet. Kinnear doesn't count.... We sacked Hughton and Pochettino has done f*** all as a manager as far as i'm concerned. Oh so he came in and played some pretty football when Adkins was sacked, got a few decent results and finished safely. Jury is still out on him, he's splashing the cash, just paid something like 13 million for a bloke from the SPL, lets all panic. Not saying Pardew is the one, like ive stated previously, i just don't trust Ashley to bring anyone else in who wouldn't cause this forum to go into meltdown (not that it takes much). I'm happy we have kept him on, im willing to write off last season, he's had one good/one bad and next season is where he should be evidently judged. Saying that, he could finish 5th again yet still people would say it's a fluke, or it's Pardew so we want him out. No matter what he does a section of fans will always hate him, each to their own. Pochettino came into a new league, couldn't speak the language and didn't have anything LIKE the budget Pardew had in January ; he took over from a manager who was popular with the fans and won them over by playing decent football - far better than that displayed by Pardew's teams. How you can say he has achieved f - all is beyond me...I notice you conveniently avoided talking about Laudrup...! I said we most people would probably take 2 of the managers, so Hughton doesn't count ; I thought that would be obvious. Also obvious is Pardew's previous CVs.....you seem quite prepared to view all that as an aberration and his one decent season with us(even though the football was largely poor)as a demo of his real ability. Sorry - I'm not buying that and I reckon most other fans won't either.

I suspect that around 55% of the fans - at least - share your views. Ashley is in for a shock when the 3 year ST period runs out unless he pulls off something spectacular before the season starts because I can see another wasted season if this squad is what the club intend to rely on until Christmas......MINUS Cabaye, of course....

Just look at our side in general, think about our players, think about our potential starting 11 even if we didn't sign anyone but kept everyone, how many teams would you swap it for? Norwich/Swansea/Southampton? (These are the ones everyone keeps banging on about). Last season was a complete write off, yes Pardew made a lot of mistakes last year, the players never had a run of confidence, we seem to brush of the fact we did have a lot injuries and the Europa league was a distraction regardless if different players played Thursday/Sunday, we brush this off as Pardew pointed this out to be a problem so we say it's an excuse. I don't see how anyone looking out our team strongly believes we won't be near top 10, personally i have no doubt we will be in it, i can't see us hitting the heights of 5th but with our team as it stands, it's still a f***ing good one nonetheless. Couple of signings would be nice to give us all a massive boost, we don’t expect anything from Man City so as long as we don’t get a tanking we have the fixtures to get off to a very good start then from there on anything is possible once good momentum and confidence is flowing. Look again at the sides you have quoted - yes, we may have better players but lets be honest - most of us would swap Pardew for at least 2 of those teams' manager. You can have all the decent players you want - and we are far from perfect throughout the side - but if you have a crap manager its just a waste of talent. Pardew is still here and even if he goes, we are unlikely to get a half-decent replacement unless Ashley has worked something out with, say, Poyet. Kinnear doesn't count....

Maybe - but that's the type of player the club will sign now...

....and that's something to be positive about..?

I think that comes down to the manager at the end of the day. We can blame the players to a certain point, but when the manager himself is publicly yearning for jumpers, tacklers and signings like Andy Carroll it's a clue to where his philosophy is firmly rooted. No doubt he is looking to change it on the surface, the question is, does he have any idea how to do it? This - absolutely. Pardew has to go before we will get a more fluid style of play.

The strikers of today are far better athletes; stronger and quicker. It's not about who likes elbowing defenders. Disagree - Shearer(before his injury at Goodison), your Brazilian namesake, further back, KK himself, Supermac, Mike Channon etc....and what about the likes of Milburn in the 50s..? Macdonald would leave ANY modern striker in the dust for pace, KK the majority of them and as for muscle, KK was built like a pocket battleship and Supermac was too strong for the majority of defenders.

Just confirms what many on here are already saying. He's a quality striker, but doesn't contribute much other than goals, so playing him and Cisse together would require a pretty astute manager. Pardew is not quite in that category...!

That or it shows how highly they rate the player that they still want to pursue him. You pays your money and takes your choice - or not, maybe....

Is this guy still here..?

The fact that NUFC now have to target a player who has already rejected them for a club now relegated and who faces a serious criminal charge which could side-line him for a couple of seasons shows how far the club has fallen. Just accepting the scraps now - the player is just using the club as a lifeboat.

No surprise here - what decent young player would join the shambles that is NUFC when he can go to one of the best-supported clubs in the best-run league in Europe ? NUFC are second rate at best under this administration and are basically a make-up-the-numbers club. Get used to it - for the foreseeable future. Still, who cares as long as a past-his-best former Mackem is still a possibility..?

Not quite right there - it is a requirement of EU membership that a country becomes a signatory of the ECHR...which, although slightly different, would still be used by Human Rights lawyers to enforce legislation similar to that which affected Mick's firm. Therefore it IS relevant to this discussion because on the face of it, the UK would have to leave the EU if it refused to comply....I bet they would soon back down if the UK called their bluff, though....

The club can't force players to learn English, the club would be much better off trying to encourage them rather than trying to force them to do something that they could refuse to do and the club would be able to do nothing about it. Having a clause in their contracts could make a difference as they would then have signed to say they will learn the language but I don't know how enforceable it would be. We had a number of foreign workers at work and had massive problems communicating and we wanted to force them to learn English. We contacted an employment lawyer who we work with and they told us to back off and if communication was that important to us a company then we would learn their language. I've never heard such ridiculous tripe in my life - if you go to a foreign country, the onus is on YOU to be able to do the job they require of you ; it may or may not require you to learn the language, but if it does, then if you take the job with that understanding, they are within their rights to fire you if you fail to do the job properly because you can't speak the language. Try going to France and trying to get a job in which it is vital to learn the language if you aren't proficient in French ; try it in ANY foreign country(where they have politicians with ba--s) and you'll be on your bike smartish. The sooner the UK leaves the EU and repeals the ridiculous Human Rights Act, the better - the whole thing is just a money-making racket for lawyers and if anyone on here knows anything about Shakespeare, they will remember that during a discussion about improving the lot of people, he said ' First, we have to kill all the lawyers..!' It really isn't a life or death issue if footballers are not proficient in the language of the country in which they play as long as they can use the basics during a game but as with any situation where people are in a foreign country, life is much easier if you CAN speak the language. There is no doubt that I would learn the local lingo if I lived in a country where it was necessary - I even brushed up my Spanish for a S.American trip 3 years ago and it was worth it. As for sodding lawyers telling me to 'back off' from instructing foreign workers to learn the language in order to do the job properly - good luck with THAT one because I just wouldn't employ any. Bastards.

Yes, know what you are getting at, but us old-timers have seen English(and other British)players with just as much passing skill as foreigners ; think Terry Hibbitt at Newcastle, could drop a long ball on a sixpence(watch his pass fpr Supermac's second against Burnley in the FA Cup Semi), Tony Currie, both long and short passing, Stan Bowles at QPR, Kenny Dalglish, Liam Brady and not forgetting George Best or our own Peter Beardsley...... Skill has gone out of British native players because it has been coached out and too many youngsters now don't practice at their game...too many other distractions.

Best of the lot was his assist to Ba against Arsenal. Sublime pass that was. This - absolutely. Best pass of the whole season, I reckon and he had to get some bend on it too in order to escape their CDs. Pity the lad doesn't seem to be able to play a full game at PL pace.

Its not just that we aren't successful in terms of silverware - the standard of football is dire and we are seen as also-rans ; fans will not want to see rubbish on the field or feel as if we have no chance of even getting near to a FA/Littlewoods Cup Final. Such things would be enough to bring fans back esp if we played attractive football. People are NOT going to stay on a waiting list if they are being viewed with contempt by the clubs management or watching the side lose to Sunderland, Liverpool and Arsenal whilst conceding shed-loads of goals....... Depends what your view of 'success' is.....

Absolutely not true, they make thick end of £20Mill more than us. Maybe we should charge Spurs-esque prices, that'd make everyone happy I'm sure. Yep - people seem to overlook how relatively 'cheap' our tickets are compared to most other clubs. They have to be or SJP would be like the SoL nowadays. Club has lost a s*** load of core supporters over the last 7- 8 years. Spurs can charge those prices considering they have a 25k waiting list. Tbhe cheap tickets are to offset the ridiculous decisions and the general disillusion of the fans. We make more out of our gate receipts than Spurs anyway. But as Neesy says they could change it and still pack it out, massive waiting list Oh no we don't. Most of the "fans" aren't members of message boards and the season ticket holders I know ain't disillusioned at all, it's all about the team on match-day and the social game-day stuff. Those 400 (or 0.77%) of the match-going fans don't represent the true feelings one way or the other. Your notion of cheap to offset disillusion is also a flawed argument, less tickets sold for more £££'s = more money than more cheaper tickets for less, see us and Spurs/Liverpool in graphs above. IF you're really disillusioned you wouldn't pay, what is, even at the current levels, to a lot of folk still a significant lump of money. It attracts day trippers and encourages those who would have perhaps not have bought a ticket due to their feelings towards Ashley/Club/Pardew. if you aren't too keen on NUFC at present and you can go to a game, the ticket is 15 compared to 40, you are more likely to buy that ticket If the product on the pitch is good, people would willingly pay more to watch it - it doesn't matter HOW badly you think about the people who are producing the product, there will always be plenty of people willing to buy it if its good - there is no nation on earth who should, in theory, hate the Germans more than anyone else but Israel....yet you go there, or watch film from there and you will see the roads full of Mercs and BMWs. Likewise people whose relatives were prisoners of the Japanese - they are quite prepared to buy Japanese cars/TVs/electrical goods because they are good and usually reliable. The same thing applies with football - if you price down the product, you then take less profit unless you can increase gates massively, which means you buy cheaper players and get more mediocre football as a result. There was a 20,000 waiting list in the mid-90s when our prices weren't that much different to other clubs....we are cheaper to watch now, but the waiting list has gone. Offer peanuts, get monkeys....