fredbob
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Posts posted by fredbob
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Really? I could of sworn that the words came out of Keegans mouth : Chris Mort - Chairman extraordinaire and world class ventriluquist. Who'da thunk it?
I'm not sure if that was an attempt at humour or a display of ignorance.
I think you know what i mean. Ill put it simpler for you though - if the Chairman or the owner 4 months into owning the club said breaching the gap between us and the top 4 was "impossible" in the exact same manner that Keegan did what sort of response would you give?
As for your link - well what else was you expecting - a public condemnation of keegans words to a 2 bit journo? Even if he does share the same views he's not openely said it which is very important becasue he's aware of the backlash he'd get. And rightly so. I cant believe you think what Mort has said in response ( i imagine to a direct question) is comparable and the same as an impromptu rant on Sky television.
Two posts prior to that one you said he hadn't said it
.........but he hasnt.
"I think what Keegan says was entirely sensible" - in response to a direct question is hardly the exact same thing with the exact same context as "no matter how much the owner gives we wont break the top for in my time here- its impossible......etc etc"
Makes sense to me....
“I thought Kevin’s comments were quite sensible.
“I am not sure what people’s expectations are, but I don’t think most Newcastle fans would be greatly surprised by what he had to say.
“There are those who are naturally optimistic, but it does no harm to come out with some realism and say that if we get fifth we will have done well. He’s right.”
So which part is it there that says its impossible to break the top four no matter how much the owner decides to give? I just dont see them in the same context. If you can then fair enough.
All im saying is that if in novemeber Mort came on Sky television and said it would be impossible to break the top 4, the gulf is huge no matter how much Ashley gives, are you actually telling me that you'd condone them in the same manner that you condone Keegans words?
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Ashley forcing Owen to take £2 m/year paycut to get a new contract, dear me this will be interesting...
Wheres this from?
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Really? I could of sworn that the words came out of Keegans mouth : Chris Mort - Chairman extraordinaire and world class ventriluquist. Who'da thunk it?
I'm not sure if that was an attempt at humour or a display of ignorance.
I think you know what i mean. Ill put it simpler for you though - if the Chairman or the owner 4 months into owning the club said breaching the gap between us and the top 4 was "impossible" in the exact same manner that Keegan did what sort of response would you give?
As for your link - well what else was you expecting - a public condemnation of keegans words to a 2 bit journo? Even if he does share the same views he's not openely said it which is very important becasue he's aware of the backlash he'd get. And rightly so. I cant believe you think what Mort has said in response ( i imagine to a direct question) is comparable and the same as an impromptu rant on Sky television.
Two posts prior to that one you said he hadn't said it
.........but he hasnt.
"I think what Keegan says was entirely sensible" - in response to a direct question is hardly the exact same thing with the exact same context as "no matter how much the owner gives we wont break the top for in my time here- its impossible......etc etc"
Makes sense to me....
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Really? I could of sworn that the words came out of Keegans mouth : Chris Mort - Chairman extraordinaire and world class ventriluquist. Who'da thunk it?
I'm not sure if that was an attempt at humour or a display of ignorance.
I think you know what i mean. Ill put it simpler for you though - if the Chairman or the owner 4 months into owning the club said breaching the gap between us and the top 4 was "impossible" in the exact same manner that Keegan did what sort of response would you give?
As for your link - well what else was you expecting - a public condemnation of keegans words to a 2 bit journo? Even if he does share the same views he's not openely said it which is very important becasue he's aware of the backlash he'd get. And rightly so. I cant believe you think what Mort has said in response ( i imagine to a direct question) is comparable and the same as an impromptu rant on Sky television.
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Funny, because I remember him in the post-match interview after we drew 2-2 with Norwich (another sign he was on his way out), him with a glint in his eye and a broad smile at the prospect of it, going on about how "even Manchester United can't afford to sign Wayne Rooney" when it looked close.
Seems strange that he'd say he wanted CB and a midfielder in his book then forget to mention he wanted Rooney as well - especially with the circumstance inwhich Butt and Carr were bought instead of Carrick and Miguel and Woodgate and Speed were sold.
Must be lying though, fancy going through the entire summer "making" small time signing knowing all the while you have 20 odd million sitting in the bank and deciding to use it all on one player you clearly dont need. Remeber we had Lua Lua, Ameobi, Chopra, Shearer, Kluivert and Bellamy in that position if i rememebr correctly.
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Robson had 5 years, the others 1.
So are you saying he needed less money because he was here longer?
Well, no, but that's a good point. My point is, that if you're there for 5 years the chances are you're going to have seasons where you spend more in one period and have to sell at others, etc. Also, there's differing circumstances. For example, Robson nearly had Rooney for £20m, a year later, Souness had Owen for £16m.
To be fair - Shepherd actually denied SBR funds in the summer 2004 in SBR book he says he wanted a midfielder and a CB as his priority positions after the chariman had sold both Speed and Woodgate under his nose, he then went and bid £20m for Rooney even though SBR didnt want him, i remeber reading quotes of confusion from him about the bid becasue he didnt want him.
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Hopefully, if anything Keegans involvlement in transfer dealing is discussed and agreed upon because i think it'd be a major flaw if they dont include him - he has an affitnity with this club and is one of only a few who really genuinely understand the club that they are at there is noone in this entire club who knows it better than him so it strikes me as odd to leave him out of the process. (If he's to be belived about his level of involvment).
I still agree though with some of what bobyule has said- people may write it off as the same as "media bilge" but i think he makes a valid point, Keegan should not have said what he had said. I've made this point before but if people were to honestly ask themselves what their reaction would be had the owner or chairman said those staements in such similarly determined fashoin, would you still harbour the same dismissive thoughts??
The chairman did say the same thing as Keegan.
Really? I could of sworn that the words came out of Keegans mouth : Chris Mort - Chairman extraordinaire and world class ventriluquist. Who'da thunk it?
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I know people go on about the fact we only spent £9m in the time we actually played Champions League football...but let's not forget we spent around £35m in the 18months leading upto that, before we received the European football money.
So whats your point?
Money was spent to get us into that position but money wasnt spent to consolidate that position. Not only was only £9m spent in the previous season, but that money was recouped with the sale of the player we bought the previous January, in essence Woodgate was on loan. To make matters worse - he was sold without the managers knowledge.
If you want to make this even more crude - relatively speaking SBR's last major signings were Bramble and Viana in July 2002.
I dont really count the summer of 2004 because it was clear in hindsight that the signings were being made by Shepherd with SBRs needs compeltely ignored.
Sad times.
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I can't see Keegan getting the push, but a meeting being termed 'productive and constructive' is lawyer-speak for 'no comment'.
Sorry, but I think a lot of people on here haven't grasped the damage that Keegan has done. He's the public face of a team, which includes Ashley, Mort, Vetere and Wise, all of whom are working to attract the best players they can to the club and to build for the future. When the manager comes out with such a discouraging message, he's disrespecting and undermining the people that are actually working very hard for him. That was why he was summoned to that meeting in double quick time. He may have seriously harmed morale within this group, and jeopardised their confidence in him.
i think Vetere and Wise are professional enough to rise about that, but Ashley probably was a bit peeved at the comments, which is why he'll have called the meeting, just to get everyone on the same page. i don't see it as a bad thing, if anything keegan has used this as an opportunity to re-iterate his ambition and the kind of finances it will take to make us a top four side.
i think keegan will have also demanded that he be part of the negotiating team when it comes to meeting potential signings. it is not a good idea for a young players to meet a team of faceless bureacrats rather than the man they'll be playing for, that's no slight at the Wise's team, but that's how it could come across.
clearly there was something going on or there would not have been a meeting called (remember the main discussion about transfer targets took place a few weeks back) but i'm sure problems would've been ironed out, otherwise what's the point of getting them all together?
Hopefully, if anything Keegans involvlement in transfer dealing is discussed and agreed upon because i think it'd be a major flaw if they dont include him - he has an affitnity with this club and is one of only a few who really genuinely understand the club that they are at there is noone in this entire club who knows it better than him so it strikes me as odd to leave him out of the process. (If he's to be belived about his level of involvment).
I still agree though with some of what bobyule has said- people may write it off as the same as "media bilge" but i think he makes a valid point, Keegan should not have said what he had said. I've made this point before but if people were to honestly ask themselves what their reaction would be had the owner or chairman said those staements in such similarly determined fashoin, would you still harbour the same dismissive thoughts??
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In fairness I think the club were being cautious (perhaps overly so although that's easy to say with hindsight) and we may have bought had we beaten Partizan. That's something we should have done with the players available. Also, pointing out we only signed Bowyer that summer is true but conveniently ignores that we splashed out £9m on Woodgate the previous January.
it is still a weird decision when you think of the financial gains CL qualification would have accrued, and that's in reference both to beating Partizan and securing 4th spot the following season. in contrast Shepherd was willing to spend £50m in 9 months a year or so later, giving the money to a s*** manager with little to no prospects of making any reals gains, footballing or financial, on the back of the outlay. if there was a time to spend that kind of cash it was in that summer.
people saying we finished with such and such points total which would only get us 9th this season are missing the point. points don't exist in an objective vacuum but in context, the league table has a different dynamic every year. had the teams immediately below us garnered more points it would've suggested a different dynamic in which we too probably would've got more points.
for instance that season there was only 21 points between liverpool in 4th and everton in 17th, which suggests a tight middle of the table in which everyone was taking points off each other, preventing people from being dragged clear at the bottom or jumping clear at the top (indeed the bottom 3 sides that season all finished with the same points total). this season the gap between those positions is 40pts and the team who finished bottom, Derby, are 22 points worse-off than the side that finished bottom that season. what matters is the final position and we finished 5th which is pretty good, tho obviously disappointing to miss out on CL football.
anyway booing the fans does seem like a disgrace from where we are sitting but football is an emotional game not a rational one. we'd had high expectations and fell short so had a right to be disappointed. what gets me is using those expectations to justify the s*** Robson received off the board, and his bungled sacking/replacement which must be one of the worst interventions by a top flight football board in living memory. the only reason we had such expectations instilled in us in the first place was down to SBR himself so he deserved a bit of slack. had the board really wanted to replace him they should've done it in a dignified manner, either moving him upstairs that summer or waiting till the end of the next season to do the job. instead they undermined him to the extent that they thought it would be more palatable to the fans to remove him. as a result anyone with a bit of self-respect wouldn't touch us, so we got the lousiest, most pathetic manager in the league to come and take charge.
Good post.
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That Sap Blatter bloke or what ever they call him, (the fifa president or something) actually summed the situation up spot on. He wants a limit on foreigners in the EPL etc, because, "Most of the money comes from the Champions league, this year we had 4 English teams in the quater finals, 3 in the semi finals and now we have an all English final. All that is happening is that the rich are getting richer and making it impossible for other teams to break through"
That is what Keegan is saying. Because of the success of the big 4 in the champions league they are getting more and more money pumped into them and so the gap widens even further. Without an Abramovich type throw 600mil at it no one will break into that top four. What was the Chelsea subs bench worth on Saturday? As much as our team I think or even squad. Until the playing field is levelled a bit it will only get worse. Ashley needs to understand that.
3 of the 4 english CL team have got the position they are in on the merit of there club, only chelsea have hamfisted there way to the top of the European leagues, Sepp Blatters suggestion would merely weaken the strength of the english teams in the CL but whats to stop the big 4 buying up the best english talent and best forigen talent starving the other teasm in the manner they do now - and still dominate this league.
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If it was the chairman or the owner who had come out with those comments would we be getting the same respones on these boards - would you still have a "lets sit back and wait attitude"?? i very much doubt it.
People would be saying they lacked ambition.
.....and they'd be right no matter how realistic the opinion is/was.
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F**k me I love how the press tend to infect our supporters into thinking of conspiracy theories/hidden agendas/club politics.
And I love the joys of forums to comment on the media hype and surrounding tosh in comments that comes with it. (i'll probably get a few 'if you dont like it you dont have to be on here' comments from saying that too).
My two penneth - Keegan should not have said what he said in public as it causes all this sort of bollocks from fans & press alike. But what he said is so true everyone should realise that all he was doing was telling the truth.
The rearranged press conference is due to the meeting taking place tomorrow, clubs often move press conferences around for one reason or another, we just dont hear about it because a. they dont get the media coverage we do and b. we couldnt give a s*** about another club.
The meeting tomorrow has likely been planned for a number of days, and is hardly a crisis meeting, more an allignment of ideas/plans and a discussion about the summer. I'd be very suprised if it ended up anything more. Keegan has asked for an idea of how much he has to spend, and he will no doubt get told tomorrow. Once again, alot of clubs have these meetings, but what I said above applies to those also.
Once again we have the case of the press taking something Keegan said (an honest and respected manager in footballing circles) on Monday and spinning it 180 degrees to make it into something it is not. (see headlines by the Sun & Daily Mirror today - non of which state any facts, direct quotes and are all based on 'ifs, buts and maybes')
As Public Enemy once said 'Don't believe the hype!'
All of this (including what I have written) is speculation,[/b] that is the joy (and frustration) of football and journalism.
Its called selling papers/tickets.
Stop all this bollocks about - 'the way it seems is' - 'by keegans reaction i think this' etc
Lets wait and see what happens tomorrow and keep the faith.
Whats the point of an interent forum if we should all take the approach that the "media are s***" and "we should sit back and see what happens". Seems pretty boring to me.
I like how you lambast thoses who speculate on the recent events then go and do the exact same thing yourself..,ie speculate that this is a nothing meeting even though your opinion is nothing more than supposition and has the absolute equal weight of evidence as the ones you criticize/belittle.
I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I'm speculating....
I'm mearly stating that some of the comments on this forum have been very much influenced by the medias spin on things and are generally more negative than is required. My speculative remarks are purely based on quotes from Keegan/Ashley/Mort and all the press coverage, as to assertain my opinion.
I enjoy these boards, they give me a laugh at times, but they can also affect how we are percieved by the media. Do you not think journalists check out these threads when something untoward kicks off at the club? The slightest sniff of blood and they are all over the net searching for peoples opinions, and are often justified in some of the comments they come out with regarding the 'majority of newcastle fans'. They read some of the s**** that is spewed on forums across the globe...ignore positive threads and lap up the negative ones - it helps them sleep at night.
I love propaganda me.
Well, anyhow, no doubt we will know what the ACTUAL story is come tomorrow or the day after.
I wish we had a boring club at times...
Fair point and yeh it does occur to me that the media read in on this, but what can you do? There was a 10 page thread about his comments even before the media had chance to stick their proverbial wooden spoons in which goes to show that its impossible to avoid and entirely acceptable to specualte and break down what he's said, this is football.
If it was the chairman or the owner who had come out with those comments would we be getting the same respones on these boards - would you still have a "lets sit back and wait attitude"?? i very much doubt it.
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If Wise is going to be at the meeting, which was reported in the Chronicle, then I really don't see how this meeting is anything besides a discussion of plans for the off season.
Not sure why Ashley would be there if that's the case.
Well, he is the owner and after the sacking of Allardyce he said that he wanted to have a more active role within the club. It makes sense that he would want to be present in such a meeting.
The meeting about players apparently took place a few weeks back according to Keegan, also Ashley hasn't shown any interest in taking a hands on role in the club since those comments.
The meeting is likely to be Ashley asking Keegan if he's got a problem with the direction the club is going and for him to air any opinions he doesn't agree with, if he's really lucky Ashley might give him his phone number to stop him moaning.
I get that feeling too, cant see why the media wouldnt be allowed to ask questions about this meeting if it was just a standard meeting.
what rubbish.
care to elaborate?
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F**k me I love how the press tend to infect our supporters into thinking of conspiracy theories/hidden agendas/club politics.
And I love the joys of forums to comment on the media hype and surrounding tosh in comments that comes with it. (i'll probably get a few 'if you dont like it you dont have to be on here' comments from saying that too).
My two penneth - Keegan should not have said what he said in public as it causes all this sort of bollocks from fans & press alike. But what he said is so true everyone should realise that all he was doing was telling the truth.
The rearranged press conference is due to the meeting taking place tomorrow, clubs often move press conferences around for one reason or another, we just dont hear about it because a. they dont get the media coverage we do and b. we couldnt give a s*** about another club.
The meeting tomorrow has likely been planned for a number of days, and is hardly a crisis meeting, more an allignment of ideas/plans and a discussion about the summer. I'd be very suprised if it ended up anything more. Keegan has asked for an idea of how much he has to spend, and he will no doubt get told tomorrow. Once again, alot of clubs have these meetings, but what I said above applies to those also.
Once again we have the case of the press taking something Keegan said (an honest and respected manager in footballing circles) on Monday and spinning it 180 degrees to make it into something it is not. (see headlines by the Sun & Daily Mirror today - non of which state any facts, direct quotes and are all based on 'ifs, buts and maybes')
As Public Enemy once said 'Don't believe the hype!'
All of this (including what I have written) is speculation, that is the joy (and frustration) of football and journalism.
Its called selling papers/tickets.
Stop all this bollocks about - 'the way it seems is' - 'by keegans reaction i think this' etc
Lets wait and see what happens tomorrow and keep the faith.
Whats the point of an interent forum if we should all take the approach that the "media are shit" and "we should sit back and see what happens". Seems pretty boring to me.
I like how you lambast thoses who speculate on the recent events then go and do the exact same thing yourself..,ie speculate that this is a nothing meeting even though your opinion is nothing more than supposition and has the absolute equal weight of evidence as the ones you criticize/belittle.
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Because they spin everything into s*** like some kind of Rumplescatkin and Keegan was probably mortified at what happened after his post match comments.I get that feeling too, cant see why the media wouldnt be allowed to ask questions about this meeting if it was just a standard meeting.
Which adds more evidence to the fact that this meeting is no standard meeting like is being sugessted in some quarters.
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If Wise is going to be at the meeting, which was reported in the Chronicle, then I really don't see how this meeting is anything besides a discussion of plans for the off season.
Not sure why Ashley would be there if that's the case.
Well, he is the owner and after the sacking of Allardyce he said that he wanted to have a more active role within the club. It makes sense that he would want to be present in such a meeting.
The meeting about players apparently took place a few weeks back according to Keegan, also Ashley hasn't shown any interest in taking a hands on role in the club since those comments.
The meeting is likely to be Ashley asking Keegan if he's got a problem with the direction the club is going and for him to air any opinions he doesn't agree with, if he's really lucky Ashley might give him his phone number to stop him moaning.
I get that feeling too, cant see why the media wouldnt be allowed to ask questions about this meeting if it was just a standard meeting.
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The old board were s***.
of course, you didn't bother attending those Champions League games I take it ?
I'm just playing with ya! I dont think they were shit at all, but they are directly responsible for the situation we are in today, thats all!
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The old board were shit.
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dont like the idea of crouch in a blackandwhite strip. Not a player thats gonna cause a prolem for a defender, not particularly effective in the course of a 90minute game, has no outstanding attributes only thing good about him is his link up play and occasional goal threats.
Would rather go for someone like Zigic whos gonna do the same job but more difficult to handle and probably cheaper.
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But he's done a complete 180 and gone from optimist keegan the one we know and love to pessimist keegan, completely out of character and that shows thats something has changed somewhere down the line. You dont make such sweeping contradictory statements so close together 5 months into your stint as a manager befre the transfer window has even opened, if everything is all good.
Or am i being a sucker and reading too much into this? Something doesnt add up, surely you can see that.
Keegan was laughing at the end of the interiew, he was hardly heading towards the Tyne Bridge for a quick bath.
Anyway I can't stop on here all night, I'll sleep easy tonight while others lie awake all night worrying over nothing.
I wouldn't be surprised if Keegan is seeing Ashley tomorrow but I'll not read anything into it. Ashley broughtKeegan here 5 months ago because he felt that Keegan was the best man for the job, Keegan said he only came back because of Ashley, nothing will happen if they have a get together.
I suppose thats fair enough but i still wont deny that im a bit miffed and dissapointed with those comments. Nevermind, all in good time etc etc.
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I can see Ashley telling Keegan that if he doesn't like the direction the club is going then he can go.
I'm not being funny but I thing some people need to go and watch the interviews again. Keegan said that it wouldn't matter how much he was given to spend, it wouldn't make any difference. He didn't say anything against Ashley so why would he take that stance?
But he's done a complete 180 and gone from optimist keegan the one we know and love to pessimist keegan, completely out of character and that shows thats something has changed somewhere down the line. You dont make such sweeping contradictory statements so close together 5 months into your stint as a manager befre the transfer window has even opened, if everything is all good.
Or am i being a sucker and reading too much into this? Something doesnt add up, surely you can see that.
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The thing is, is that with these comments, the media have created something out of nothing-except as realisitc as those comments are and no matter how insignificant they may be in a couple of months time they were poor comments to make because they brought yet more negative press to the club and yet more scrutiniziation of the current set up, its scrutinization which the fans will take in and its scrutinisation which wasnt prevalent at 4pm Monday afternoon.
We have a 30 pages thread on how much the media hate us and how much bollocks they write about us, but the minute someone within our own club-especially the manager says something which gives the media just material to write there drivel its played down as "nothing".
The media print this crap because they know they have a market for it, no other reason. We get what we deserve, if people just brushed it off and took no notice then they'd go elsewhere looking for others to have a go at.
So you're still condoning the comments then? Its fair and well trying to ignore the media when they print stuff based on conjecture and supposition but when its based upon the words of the manager of the club then its a bit harder to just ignore.
This could of all been done behind closed doors, we havent even talked about the effect it may have on the players - alot of our squad have CL ambitions, many have already played in it, what effect would it have on them to be openely told that in essence they wont be good enough to make it into the top 4.
To be honest, im really annoyed with these comments, i just dont understand the need for them, they served no purpose but bring negativepress to the club AGAIN.
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If only king Kev could keep his mouth shut because he's brought this all on himself.
I don't see it that way, he's made a few comments and people seem to be falling over each other to create something out of nothing.
The thing is, is that with these comments, the media have created something out of nothing-except as realisitc as those comments are and no matter how insignificant they may be in a couple of months time they were poor comments to make because they brought yet more negative press to the club and yet more scrutiniziation of the current set up, its scrutinization which the fans will take in and its scrutinisation which wasnt prevalent at 4pm Monday afternoon.
We have a 30 pages thread on how much the media hate us and how much bollocks they write about us, but the minute someone within our own club-especially the manager says something which gives the media just material to write there drivel its played down as "nothing".
Clear the Air Talks ?
in Football
Posted
Fair enough Mick, I'm clearly not articulating myself well enough
Those quotes obviously condone the comments that Keegan made, but in my eyes that isnt the same as him saying the quotes comments in the first place.
I mean if you are honest with yourself and and apply the bit in bold (of my post) in the exact same contexts its meant are you telling me you wouldnt be miffed? Say it was Shepherd who said those comments (for arguments sake) what would your reaction be?