Hughesy

I want to know who first used it.

I've not read the last ten or so pages. Where is that being suggested? Lee Ryder's "article" Those bloody Ashley apologists, eh?

Barton basically has the mentality of a small child.

I'm sorry, but that's absolutely pathetic. Damaging for the morale of the entire team, watching their sometimes Captain made to train alone. Disgusting. do you believe barton is whiter than white in this? No, I don't. I'm not saying the club shouldn't fine Barton like they did Enrique, or that Barton is anywhere near as holy and white as he thinks he is. However, what GOOD does making him train alone do? It just sounds like that petulant sports coach from school. The regime have decided they want rid of Barton, and they're going to do everything they can to bully him out. I think that's wrong and pathetic, personally. He's definitely white. Probably as white as he thinks he is.

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. Genuine question - when did he take money out? I didn't think he had.

Clueless. Great reply.

I'd agree with this - in fact, I mentioned in another thread. If striker search has gone: Gameiro Gervinho Erdinc Long Crouch Defoe Beckford over a course of 7-8 months, something doesn't quite add up.

A manufacturing company would go bust if it didn't have materials or the staff to produce the goods it sells Sorry... did I say it wouldn't buy any materials? Did I say it would sack all its staff? Oh wait a second... I didn't.

cheers Sherlock there's cutting costs and cutting costs - you're so keen to compare football to other businesses would a manufacturing company cut costs by using inferior materials, machinery and people and expect their business to maintain itself or grow? i f***ing doubt it unless you have no choice, i.e. going bust is looming, you don't just butcher everything, cut every cost and stop investing in expanding your business, there has to be balance - presently we have no balance, it's all one way ashley is not in that position, he's not short of money himself he's choosing to run the club this way As Ian is saying - it is about getting the balance right. I think Ashley should be spending some more money, but I can see the reasoning why he might not think it is prudent to do so. Until anyone of us actually knows the exact financial state of NUFC, we are all guessing. As for other businesses, if a manufacturing company saw that it was spending too much on its employees, materials etc, then of course it would cut its costs. Why wouldn't it? If it is making a loss, it would look to cut costs wherever it could. I assume once the manufacturing company had stabilised itself, it would then reassess and work out if investment would increase profitability or how it would work. My personal view is that NUFC are at this point or certainly close to it. I don't see that Ashley's personal wealth comes into it though - unless I have misunderstood your point. It isn't as if you buy a football club and are then duty bound to pump money into it. Arguably he has already done that and has had enough.

sorry but it doesn't work like that, he's bought a football club and needs to act accordingly let's say he bought a company that provided a service but was burned on the debt like he was with us how likely is he to make it succeed and pay back by cutting spending and providing a poorer service to his customers? not very if he'd bought a famous comic book company 'cause he liked comic books, he'd not succeed by cutting production costs, hiring cheaper artists and writers and generally destroying the morale of his company and fanbase would he? the man is an utter c*** There isn't only one way to run a business. But, cutting costs in one of the most important ways that a company losing money can reduce its losses and even make a profit. In fact, it's probably the first thing that any purchaser of any business would do.

Well shot of him if that stuff about Cabaye and the younger players is true.

"The one thing I said to Mike yesterday was, 'Look, if this boy is going to go, this money has to be reinvested in the team, all of it', and he has assured me of that. "For the Newcastle fan, that is the most important message I can give today, that all that money will be used. And? I am not sure what your point is? That doesn't really change what I said, unless you think Pardew could have stopped the sale of Carroll if Ashley had told him he wasn't getting any of the money?

'on the payroll' Ashley apologist. obviously..

You're going on about past losses and Ashley not wanting to put any more money into the club while ignoring that Llambias said we were close to breaking even long before we sold Carroll. People aren't expecting Ashley to dip into his own pocket, we want the income to be spent on the squad, like they promised when we sold Caroll. I am sure every NUFC fan does want the money spent on improving the team, but when Ashley is owed £200 million (or whatever the figure is), he might be somewhat reluctant to pump all the profit the club makes into transfers. I would love us to go out and spend £35 million tomorrow, but the fact is Ashley owns the club, Ashley is owed money and we have no right to demand that he spends the money. Depressing though that may be.

Got the ball on the deck and passed it around far more. Less Route One and less reliant on the Carroll/Barton axis. Fair enough, I must just have missed it. Happy to agree to disagree - but I genuinely thought we played more flowing football. And I was massively opposed to Pardew when he came.

Got the ball on the deck and passed it around far more. Less Route One and less reliant on the Carroll/Barton axis.

And look how well that went. He's getting found out by more people, more and more each day. Look, I know you don't like him. You've made it clear on here for weeks. I'm just telling you what Barton himself said. Whether he was successful or not in his attempts to get Barton the deal is really irrelevant (knowing the men upstairs that he has to deal with). The point I was making is that the players don't seem to dislike him.... and none of the ones who have left or are leaving have said a bad word about him. Yet. Yes yet. I can't predict the future can I (neither can you by the way ). However, it's been 7 months since Carroll left and 6 weeks since Nolan. Still nothing..... All I'm saying is if Pardew was a bad and as "part of the cockney mafia" as some people on here and Twitter would have you believe, don't you think we would have heard about it by now. Some people may have believed he had more influence at the time of the AC sale. I should think that people now realise he's got jack all to do with the club, apart from taking names out of a hat every weekend. I think everyone realises that his job is basically first team coach. So on that basis, how do you think he's done (purely as a football coach / managing the first team)? In my eyes, he's done alright. About the same as Hughton. Pardew has easily done as well as Hughton. Of course, just look at the legacy he'll leave. A f***ed up team spirit, a squad thats threadbare and a first team that might as well be called 'injury 11'. I thought we had established that Pardew had no control over transfers? So with a worse team (ie no Carroll) and taking over from a popular manager with the players (too popular perhaps...?), he got results that were certainly as good as Hughton's and played far better football?

I think he was incentivised to make money for the club by way of sales and reduction in wage bill Ian. this thing annoys me, why would the board give him money to do something they're perfectly capable of on their own It's basically untrue.

And look how well that went. He's getting found out by more people, more and more each day. Look, I know you don't like him. You've made it clear on here for weeks. I'm just telling you what Barton himself said. Whether he was successful or not in his attempts to get Barton the deal is really irrelevant (knowing the men upstairs that he has to deal with). The point I was making is that the players don't seem to dislike him.... and none of the ones who have left or are leaving have said a bad word about him. Yet. Yes yet. I can't predict the future can I (neither can you by the way ). However, it's been 7 months since Carroll left and 6 weeks since Nolan. Still nothing..... All I'm saying is if Pardew was a bad and as "part of the cockney mafia" as some people on here and Twitter would have you believe, don't you think we would have heard about it by now. Some people may have believed he had more influence at the time of the AC sale. I should think that people now realise he's got jack all to do with the club, apart from taking names out of a hat every weekend. I think everyone realises that his job is basically first team coach. So on that basis, how do you think he's done (purely as a football coach / managing the first team)? In my eyes, he's done alright. About the same as Hughton. Pardew has easily done as well as Hughton.

Wot's ee sayin'? I dont believe what i'm hearing, Barton didn't like the fact he wasn't allowed to take free kicks and set pieces and thats what set him off Sunday. Should have learnt to take them properly then.

Why's that then? Losing our best players, hints of dressing room unrest - a patsy for a manager, a very small squad lacking cover in key areas and a failed promise to reinvest the Carroll cash into the team. That enough for you? We've lost Nolan and Barton and gained Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba. There's no evidence of dressing room unrest. Our manager did a decent job last term. Yes we're short on numbers but the squad should still have enough to stay clear of the relegation zone. Tears before bedtime? It's always the way with the anti-apologists... ;-)

I think the word 'apologist' is becoming the most over-used word on this forum.

Think that is spot on..

Can we just clear something up? Joey Barton is not intelligent.

Finally. Nice of him to come to that conclusion after he's been mouthing off for the last few weeks. Idiot.