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Is keeping Bruce for 5 points really worth it??! Just get rid. It would be such an anti climax to have him lead us out for our first game under new owners. He should be consigned to the history of Ashley's era.

Tl;dr: Other big brands have questionable ties too. They all do, and we buy them. That’s my point, try and life your own life as a nice person, with a sone conscience of others, the works etc and to what you can the most to make your own world a better world for you and others the most you can. That’s all you can do. If I was a billionaire, I’d buy NUFC to give away to the fans, that’s me. Or I could buy it to make even more money. Btw, there is a serious lack of insight, knowledge and realism when it comes to business and rich people if you like on here. Victoria Beckham has had to furlough her staff despite being worth x money. She can’t keep them on out of her own pocket though and has (I hope) contributed a lot more than others in taxes etc towards the stars so her money when tines are bad, the powers that be can help her staff out. It doesn’t help mind when people flaunt their wealth... After this, if you’re a good person, treat your staff like they are your family, treat everyone like they are your friends. Those that don’t, they are the true c***s. Footballers have actually done more than our own f***ing government lately who get their coffers filled off their taxes so they can help the needy out, again it’s all unfair, unjust, wrong and corrupt. And I’m part of the problem, you are, we all are, but I do try and be part of A solution too. Pissing in the wind though... Tl;dr Rich people aren't moral white knights.

Tl;dr: Other big brands have questionable ties too.

The other plus point for Rafa is I think this would be his last job (bar national sides). Can't see that being the case with any other manager. I want that.

I think Atsu and Yedlin are the only real examples of that strategy and I know I named Yedlin in my list of poor buys but I'd probably retract that irrespective of having the hindsight he didnt turn out to be a great player. The others 2 were players from average premier league teams and we've not even looked at what we could have looked at in other leagues. And I still think the point stands for the other players signed, they all turned out to be good championship players and poor/average prem players and you probably didnt need hindsight for you to come to that conclusion in most cases.

I fucking hope so.

Well, tell me why then? Give me a logical reason why it makes zero sense to you as it clearly does.

Loftus Cheek is literally one example of that ffs :lol: Edit: sneaky edit, Joeyt

I think there was enough, yes, and that's literally my only point. Such as who? We couldn't have signed Townsend instead of Ritchie I honestly dont know the answer to that because I dont have contacts in football who would tell me who was available at that time. I think youre taking this Ritchie vs Towsend comparative too literally. There's 10 top clubs in the Premier league, they have 25 man squad and 17 matchday players(?). That leaves a pool of 80 players who are on the books of a top 10 team who cant get into the playing squad. Chose 3-4 of them who are probably unlucky not to play, and that's just from the premier league only.

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek. They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer? Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price. Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different. Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well... Agreed, but you're aiming that at the wrong man in this situation. Perhaps I am, yeh. My reading of it at the time was Rafa did have free reign at the time and so was fully accountable for what we signed in that particular window. I felt that way because he seemed pretty content (no murmrings of unrest in the media) and the transfer policy was basically scrapped for him. He could have said no to a signing, like he did with Joelinton but the club had said no to him about hist 1st few choices, so he's now taking chances on players further down the list. Next in line may have worked out better, who knows. but that's as far as control went. Hindsight: I'd rather we signed no one than Murphy and Muto, but it could have worked out well at the time they came in, that's the gamble. 100% agree with that, I have absolutely no idea if there were any constraints imposed upon him for that summer 2016 window, I just thought there was enough evidence to suggest all those signings were his first choice because I'm sure we'd have heard about it if he felt seriosuly restricted at that time.

I think there was enough, yes, and that's literally my only point.

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek. They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer? Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price. Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different. Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well... What does Hodgson have to do with it? Ah little mistake, but what difference does it make to my point?

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek. They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer? Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price. Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different. Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well... Agreed, but you're aiming that at the wrong man in this situation. Perhaps I am, yeh. My reading of it at the time was Rafa did have free reign at the time and so was fully accountable for what we signed in that particular window. I felt that way because he seemed pretty content (no murmrings of unrest in the media) and the transfer policy was basically scrapped for him.

Who's happy that we have Ritchie for another 3 years? That's got Bruce written all over it, Diame literally left on a free, he could have been signed for a nominal fee by anyone who really wanted him, and Hayden has literally been begging to leave and still can't orchestrate a move. That's not Rafa's fault though is it? Rafa bought Diame and Ritchie to get us out of the Championship and solidify our place in the Prem, which they did. Rafa would have moved Ritchie on last summer or this summer Loads of clubs would have bought Hayden but we didn't sell him and his personal problems seem to have eased Well that's kind of my point, he bought for the Championship when he had the option to buy players who would have got us up AND been assets if/when we got up. You can read the Ritchie and Gayle threads to see how they're viewed by the fan base. Largely seen as liabilities now. I have not heard of a single bid for Hayden, I could be wrong like.

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek. They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer? Ashley pulled the plug on those deals and when we did go back for Townsend Fat head was being a c*** and wouldn't do a deal at the same price. Rafa was getting in his 5th-10th choices due to budgets and slow movement from the club. We'll be hitting the top end of the list this time round. It will be totally different. Again, it's not about the actual deals per se and why we didnt sign them, it's the fact that that calibre of player was willing to come to us and yet in the summer preceding that we signed players of a lower calibre. If you know you can sign higher calibre players, theres no real excuse not to. Those players would have not only lifted us out the championship but would have also been excellent in the premiership too. Ritchie and Gayle were excellent championship players but average prem players. Hodgson and Howe clearly thought the same as well...

Who's happy that we have Ritchie for another 3 years? That's got Bruce written all over it, Diame literally left on a free, he could have been signed for a nominal fee by anyone who really wanted him, and Hayden has literally been begging to leave and still can't orchestrate a move.

Sels is doing alright in France isn't he? Also we got our money back (5.5) with loan (1.8) and transfer (3.5) fee. Don't think we needed a GK at the time mind. Lazaar was only 2.3m, i reckon we'd have seen half that back with loan fees as well. Muto & Murphy though, at the time where we really needed players to challenge were a huge waste of resources and hindered us. I'd add Joselu to the s*** list. Atsu was close to being mentioned but tbh in his loan spell here he was good and i would have signed him in case he stepped up. To be fair to Rafa, I think his hands were tied by that point so I dont actually blame him at all for some of the s*** we bought when we got up. If anything it was a testament to his ability as a coach/manager to achieve what he did with some of that dross.

I kind of disagree. Like it was said earlier, we had deals lined up for Townsend and Loftus Cheek. There is a world of difference between Gayle/Ritchie and Townsend/Loftus Cheek. They were the type of players I felt we should have gone for. Given the choice now, who would you have taken? If players of the calibre of Townsend and Loftus Cheek were willing to come to is in the January window, wouldnt it have been likely that a similar calibre of player would have come in the preceding summer?

You don’t think Rafa bought well in the Championship?! WTF?! Maybe it's a relic of the Ashley philosophy, but even at the time I thought players like Gayle and Ritchie were championship standard players and it all felt a bit short term. Ritchie Yedlin Gayle Hanley Murphy Sels Diame Hayden All very very good buys for a Championship team looking to get up, but I always felt we were a Prem club in the Championship and so maybe we could have bought with one eye on our return to the Prem in mind. Ritchie dropping down a division when he was already established at a good prem club showed that we did still have that pull. In my opinion we could have bought more players who would have been good enough for both the Prem and the Championsip, but instead, we went almost exclusively for players who were only good enough for the Championship. Ritchie, Yedlin, Diame and Hayden all played a big part in retaining our PL status in the first season. And yet we're struggling to shift them all because no other team in the Prem wants them. At some point you have to take a step back and ask yourself why? Like I say, Rafa is my only choice as manager of the club and I would be genuinely gutted if it was literally anyone else, but the point I was responding to was about him getting free reign to sign who he'd like and the only time I remember him having that at Newcastle was summer 2016 and I didnt think he signed that well. I'm well aware that when he had free reign at Napoli, he signed some unreal players so it's a side note rather than a major sleight on his transfer ability.

You don’t think Rafa bought well in the Championship?! WTF?! Maybe it's a relic of the Ashley philosophy, but even at the time I thought players like Gayle and Ritchie were championship standard players and it all felt a bit short term. Ritchie Yedlin Gayle Hanley Murphy Sels Diame Hayden All very very good buys for a Championship team looking to get up, but I always felt we were a Prem club in the Championship and so maybe we could have bought with one eye on our return to the Prem in mind. Ritchie dropping down a division when he was already established at a good prem club showed that we did still have that pull. In my opinion we could have bought more players who would have been good enough for both the Prem and the Championsip, but instead, we went almost exclusively for players who were only good enough for the Championship. Pretty sure he had deals lined up and pretty much done for Townsend and loftus cheek on loan in the January only for Ashley to pull the plug. That was kind of the turning point in him being unhappy I don't doubt thay for a second, but it felt like he had free reign in the summer and bought what he bought. All I'm saying is that at the time, I didnt think they were great buys. I cant remember the quality of players in the championship back then, but even now you can see so many players who are clearly good enough to establish themselves as very good prem players, I always felt we should have been hoovering up all that talent. Instead we went for good Championship players who would have ended up as average prem players. Obviously players like Hayden and Diame ended up having spells of being very very good in the Prem, bit can't really say the same for others.

You don’t think Rafa bought well in the Championship?! WTF?! Maybe it's a relic of the Ashley philosophy, but even at the time I thought players like Gayle and Ritchie were championship standard players and it all felt a bit short term. Ritchie Yedlin Gayle Hanley Murphy Sels Diame Hayden All very very good buys for a Championship team looking to get up, but I always felt we were a Prem club in the Championship and so maybe we could have bought with one eye on our return to the Prem in mind. Ritchie dropping down a division when he was already established at a good prem club showed that we did still have that pull. In my opinion we could have bought more players who would have been good enough for both the Prem and the Championsip, but instead, we went almost exclusively for players who were only good enough for the Championship.

Tbf, I judged him on his time at Liverpool where his caution against weaker teams probably cost them the title. Always tagged him as more of a cup winner than a title type. That said, I have said in the other thread that given he is highly intelligent and a student of the game, he's probably moved on quite a lot since those days. He doesn't seem the type not to learn and adapt to the modern game and more effective styles of the day. Would love to see what he would produce now if he had a quality squad available to him. This is the thing that excites me most. Although it's a double edged sword in the sense that I actually don't actually think he bought well for the Championship season and he does have that precedent of buying hard to shift dross.

Am I the only one who would want to build any success gradually? I just think theres something really empty with the way Man City and Chelsea's achieved success. Chelsea barely even care about success now they've had it all. I'd hate for that to happen to our club after waiting so long, I'd be more than happy to wait a little longer, just as long as I could see us getting there.

I actually really enjoyed seeing how well organised we were. It was quite cathartic knowing your manager knew what he was doing and wasnt relying on mavericks or 'big performances' week in week out. I still dont understand why people ignore what he achieved in the second half of the season when he had Almiron at his disposal.

Rafa's earnt the opportunity. No other manager on that list would have even looked at us at the time Rafa took over. Kind of feel we owe it to him, plus I cant see any other manager connecting with the club in the same way he did. Love the man. Finally deserves a job he's fully backed in.