Switching full-backs, N'Zogbia, 4-3-3 & Big Sam's thinking?

[Baggio]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

[nufc4eva]

Oh right. Who was the other ten spent on again ??

 

my break down is this

 

In

smith 6

barton 5.8

beye 2

roz 2.9

faye 2

enrique 6

 

Out

Parker 7

Dyer 8

 

 

Now to me that looks like sam had about 10 - 15 million and he had to wait for at least parker to be sold.

[Mick]

Can somebody point me in the direction of all this success Allardyce had at Bolton?

 

Sorry but I can't find it anywhere.

[Guest Knightrider]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

[fredbob]

I think its fair to say that Owen is causing most of the problems for SA. Its his value to the team which is hindering the flexibilty of SA's team selection. This seems pretty accepted amongst the board, and i think its correct. My issue with this belief though is that had SA got the england job he'd of encountered the same problems, if not twice as bad. The idea that this supposed top class manager isnt able to implement a 442 so that the team we put out is competitive at least just doesnt sit right with me. I dont understand whats going on to be fair, this squad is the best since SBR, he's bought 7 very good players. And in his limited time hasnt really brought on anyones game, Zog could possibly be the exception to this although he has always been capable of this. Having said all this i feel that SA nees the time. He's already done so muh f the club.

[nufc4eva]

Can somebody point me in the direction of all this success Allardyce had at Bolton?

 

Sorry but I can't find it anywhere.

 

Top 6 side twice from a team that were in bottom half of division one and were awful on little money he got them up there but could not get them any further he felt due to lack of finances or whatever.

 

I dont think people quite understand what a massive achievement getting bolton beating the big boys really was and he was behind that

[Mick]

Oh right. Who was the other ten spent on again ??

 

my break down is this

 

In

smith 6

barton 5.8

beye 2

roz 2.9

faye 2

enrique 6

 

Out

Parker 7

Dyer 8

 

 

Now to me that looks like sam had about 10 - 15 million and he had to wait for at least parker to be sold.

 

The other £10 million was spent on Enrique, Faye and Beye.

 

I'm not saying that he didn't have to wait, he may have wanted to replace a midfielder with another midfielder, I've said he didn't have to sell to buy, nothing has been said to suggest that was the case.

[nufc4eva]

I think sam has a blueprint set for this club and this is very much phase one.

 

Yes he should be able to play 4-42 but he has a vision of what formation he wants us to play and has to transform that and as such this may be why we are seeing players out of position in this "transitional period" for the team

[Guest Knightrider]

Can somebody point me in the direction of all this success Allardyce had at Bolton?

 

Sorry but I can't find it anywhere.

 

Howay Mick, he didn't win any trophies but he took them up, consolidated and then got them into the top 6 and into Europe, on a transfer net spend of zero, while changing his tactics and formations to suit along the way. For a club like Bolton that is a staggering achievement and the equivalent of us finishing top 5 and winning a cup. However his success spreads far deeper, he built an academy, state of the art facilities and medical and sports science departments and created a global scouting network. He's guaranteed to do the same off-field stuff here at Newcastle, while on it if he can get us into the top 5 on a consistent basis, he'll be doing well.

 

I remember a Bolton fan on her asking could Wenger, Fergie, Benitez and Mourinho do what he did at Bolton? Then asking could Big Sam win some trophies at such clubs with such resources?

 

We'll find out.

[nufc4eva]

by the time he spent that other ten million I think he had recouped enough to spend that much.

 

I just dont think he was given the amount of money he needed for the job thats all and its quite clear to see he had to wheel and deal to get players rather than splash the cash

[Parky]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

 

Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique.

[Guest Knightrider]

I don't think he was backed as much as he'd have liked in the summer, although I don't blame the board for that as they were carrying out an internal review. I also think pressing defensive and squad strengthening issues took up most of his time and searches for players at the expense of other areas. This will be rectified along the way I'm in no doubt, the major backing and strengthening of other areas.

[Guest Knightrider]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

 

Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique.

 

Barton I imagine will be used in a similar way to how Nolan was, the main support of attack from midfield. And if we are playing 4-3-3 I imagine there will be players either side of Crouch, pacy players to get in between the full-backs. It isn't just about flick-ons though, it's about holding the ball up and having a presence centrally to focus opposition minds away from other areas.

[Mick]

 

Top 6 side twice from a team that were in bottom half of division one and were awful on little money he got them up there but could not get them any further he felt due to lack of finances or whatever.

 

I dont think people quite understand what a massive achievement getting bolton beating the big boys really was and he was behind that

 

Dave Bassett and Graham Taylor must have been brilliant managers.

[Parky]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

 

Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique.

 

Barton I imagine will be used in a similar way to how Nolan was, the main support of attack from midfield. And if we are playing 4-3-3 I imagine there will be players either side of Crouch, pacy players to get in between the full-backs. It isn't just about flick-ons though, it's about holding the ball up and having a presence centrally to focus opposition minds away from other areas.

 

I see.

 

What worries me about all this systems lark is that we don't have one single forward who has one clue on how to play in a 433 apart from Duff who looks like he's going to be the next permacrock.

[Mick]

by the time he spent that other ten million I think he had recouped enough to spend that much.

 

I just dont think he was given the amount of money he needed for the job thats all and its quite clear to see he had to wheel and deal to get players rather than splash the cash

 

I guess we'll never know, I don't think any more players coming in would have helped anyway, we're still trying to find a bit of stability with the ones who came.

[Baggio]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

 

Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique.

 

Barton I imagine will be used in a similar way to how Nolan was, the main support of attack from midfield. And if we are playing 4-3-3 I imagine there will be players either side of Crouch, pacy players to get in between the full-backs. It isn't just about flick-ons though, it's about holding the ball up and having a presence centrally to focus opposition minds away from other areas.

 

I see.

 

What worries me about all this systems lark is that we don't have one single forward who has one clue on how to play in a 433 apart from Duff who looks like he's going to be the next permacrock.

 

Then we teach the players we've got to play that way, similar to how he trained Diouf and Anelka to play it when he was at Bolton.

[Mick]

I don't think he was backed as much as he'd have liked in the summer, although I don't blame the board for that as they were carrying out an internal review. I also think pressing defensive and squad strengthening issues took up most of his time and searches for players at the expense of other areas. This will be rectified along the way I'm in no doubt, the major backing and strengthening of other areas.

 

The only noises from Allardyce were the early ones when he said things were not moving quickly enough, he also said that it was understandable considering what was going on at the time, the other comment was how he'd been backed with more money than he'd ever had in his managerial career, or words to that effect.

[Guest Knightrider]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

 

Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique.

 

Barton I imagine will be used in a similar way to how Nolan was, the main support of attack from midfield. And if we are playing 4-3-3 I imagine there will be players either side of Crouch, pacy players to get in between the full-backs. It isn't just about flick-ons though, it's about holding the ball up and having a presence centrally to focus opposition minds away from other areas.

 

I see.

 

What worries me about all this systems lark is that we don't have one single forward who has one clue on how to play in a 433 apart from Duff who looks like he's going to be the next permacrock.

 

Then we teach the players we've got to play that way, similar to how he trained Diouf and Anelka to play it when he was at Bolton.

 

Or buy them in.

 

This is part of the problem though Parky.

[Parky]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

 

Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique.

 

Barton I imagine will be used in a similar way to how Nolan was, the main support of attack from midfield. And if we are playing 4-3-3 I imagine there will be players either side of Crouch, pacy players to get in between the full-backs. It isn't just about flick-ons though, it's about holding the ball up and having a presence centrally to focus opposition minds away from other areas.

 

I see.

 

What worries me about all this systems lark is that we don't have one single forward who has one clue on how to play in a 433 apart from Duff who looks like he's going to be the next permacrock.

 

Then we teach the players we've got to play that way, similar to how he trained Diouf and Anelka to play it when he was at Bolton.

 

That would be ideal but the two players you mention have assets our forwards can only dream about apart from the fact they have a lot of football intelligence compared to the likes of Martins and Milner and the still learning zoggy.

 

In a 433 the forwards are always needing to analyse the game and re-positon so they can make the extra man (the core of the system).

 

We have Owen (goalhanger) Martins (derranged run anywhere shoot if poss). Not ideal.

 

 

[fredbob]

Why isnt SA able to implement his preffered 433?

[Guest Knightrider]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

 

Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique.

 

Barton I imagine will be used in a similar way to how Nolan was, the main support of attack from midfield. And if we are playing 4-3-3 I imagine there will be players either side of Crouch, pacy players to get in between the full-backs. It isn't just about flick-ons though, it's about holding the ball up and having a presence centrally to focus opposition minds away from other areas.

 

I see.

 

What worries me about all this systems lark is that we don't have one single forward who has one clue on how to play in a 433 apart from Duff who looks like he's going to be the next permacrock.

 

Then we teach the players we've got to play that way, similar to how he trained Diouf and Anelka to play it when he was at Bolton.

 

That would be ideal but the two players you mention have assets our forwards can only dream about apart from the fact they have a lot of football intelligence compared to the likes of Martins and Milner and the still learning zoggy.

 

In a 433 the forwards are always needing to analyse the game and re-positon so they can make the extra man (the core of the system).

 

We have Owen (goalhanger) Martins (derranged run anywhere shoot if poss). Not ideal.

 

 

 

The crux of our problems. Big Sam can't do what he wants to do, what he knows will work and bring us rewards, because he doesn't have the players. He has tried to fit them in but it's clearly not going to work. He's even compromised and went to 4-4-2 but even then things are not going too well. It's clear to me Allardyce isn't comfortable with 4-4-2 just like his players aren't comfortable with 4-3-3 and sadly for us, they are not too comfortable at 4-4-2 either it seems. We'll know more in January and the following summer.

[fredbob]

To your first question HTT. I ask because it's clear you've put in the time and thought to really analyze the future movements of Big Sam. I personally can hardly ever be bothered to type more than one 5 line paragraph. I reckon Sam pays you to be his internet street-team.. telling us he knows what he's doing.

 

I too thought Smith was Viduka's replacement, i'm not so sure anymore. More likely the Dyer replacement.

 

Oba is more likely to nick a goal in an away game where we are under the kosh. He has the ability to score from absolutely nothing, with either foot, from anywhere around the 25 yard area. Owen can't do this, he needs the ball in the box. His inclusion in the team smacks me of someone scared to drop the star player.

 

He's manager of Newcastle United. We have managed to avoid a relegation battle with managers like Souness and Roeder. We aren't getting relegated. We don't need 4-5 short term signings.

 

I think Big Sam is winging it.

 

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks.

 

My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. 

 

I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both.

 

I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does.

 

Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it  the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness.

 

I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there.

 

I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal.

 

On Crouch.

 

I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo.

 

I don't get the stick Crouch gets

 

Scores goals - check

Creates goals - check

Works hard - check

Has good technique - check

Good option up front - check

 

Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3.

 

Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck.

 

Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course.

 

I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better.

 

Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job?

 

Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique.

 

Barton I imagine will be used in a similar way to how Nolan was, the main support of attack from midfield. And if we are playing 4-3-3 I imagine there will be players either side of Crouch, pacy players to get in between the full-backs. It isn't just about flick-ons though, it's about holding the ball up and having a presence centrally to focus opposition minds away from other areas.

 

I see.

 

What worries me about all this systems lark is that we don't have one single forward who has one clue on how to play in a 433 apart from Duff who looks like he's going to be the next permacrock.

 

Then we teach the players we've got to play that way, similar to how he trained Diouf and Anelka to play it when he was at Bolton.

 

That would be ideal but the two players you mention have assets our forwards can only dream about apart from the fact they have a lot of football intelligence compared to the likes of Martins and Milner and the still learning zoggy.

 

In a 433 the forwards are always needing to analyse the game and re-positon so they can make the extra man (the core of the system).

 

We have Owen (goalhanger) Martins (derranged run anywhere shoot if poss). Not ideal.

 

 

 

The crux of our problems. Big Sam can't do what he wants to do, what he knows will work and bring us rewards, because he doesn't have the players. He has tried to fit them in but it's clearly not going to work. He's even compromised and went to 4-4-2 but even then things are not going too well. It's clear to me Allardyce isn't comfortable with 4-4-2 just like his players aren't comfortable with 4-3-3 and sadly for us, they are not too comfortable at 4-4-2 either it seems. We'll know more in January and the following summer.

 

Why cant he do what he wants to do? He had the summer to recruit the players he wanted and needed and he used it very wisely. I always thought of SA as a manager who doesnt compromise and isnt afraid to drop anyone. I personnaly think that its a simple case of this season being transistion.

[James]

Boothroyd only got the Watford job because Alex Inglethorpe turned them down.

[Mick]

Boothroyd only got the Watford job because Alex Inglethorpe turned them down.

 

Have you got a crush on Alex Inglethorpe or something?