Ashley has failed Newcastle United.

[Parky]

At the time, they handled Allardyce's sacking badly in my opinion and the timing was all wrong too because it came at a key point in the season which has since negatively effected the new man and with it the team's chances on the pitch of doing something positive this season.

 

But sometimes you have to take these risks (or sometimes they just come to a natural conclusion) and if KK proves an ultimate success, people will look back on Allardyce's sacking and the timing of it not to mention our lack of spending in the remainder of the window with different specs on because the ends would then have justified the means, just as people look back on with favour regarding Gullit's departure and the timing of it. Which lets not forget was not long after spending all the money which left Sir Bobby to scrap around for freebies and bargain basement buys for a period.

 

In short, while I was disappointed with Allardyce's sacking and especially the timing of it, really so, with time to think since however, I'm now of the opinion that these such decisions need to and can only really be judged in time or within full context which isn't now that's for sure.

 

For Ashley and Mort and indeed Wise and Co and Keegan too, they now all need to turn this around to theirs and our advantage, to basically move on and make sure that the decision to sack Allardyce at the stage they did and go the course they did like appointing KK and Wise etal and KK deciding not to bring anyone in, turns out for the best. And if that happens, we will all be delighted and will forget all about the episodes leading to KK's appointment and not spending any money in the window.

 

For what it's worth btw, I think they will turn this around and that KK will be a success. Not like the last time of course, but success in the shape of saving us from relegation and getting us back into the top 6 and playing good football.

 

I won't even mention trophies...

 

Finally out of the fetal position eh?

[Mick]

 

and the zero spending and ambition of our past that got us into the mess the Halls and Shepherd found us in, and everybody bar the only 4 clubs who qualified for europe more than us during their time running the club after they rescued it.

 

I'm sick of saying this. If you think having a "debt" is so bad, mainly due to expanding the stadium, are you going to say you wish we still had a 36000 capacity ground, and then go to manu and Liverpool supporters and tell them their clubs have been run badly.

 

At the end of the day, if you are afraid of showing ambition and don't do it, you may as well give up.

 

 

 

 

Good job Allardyce spent more than Roeder then, isn't it?

[Mick]

 

mackems.gif

 

Exactly, I laughed at the thought of Baggio stating the obvious, especially after reading the "Rich List" thread and seeing those clubs with smaller crowds above us.

[Guest fraser]

As far as I can see this thread started with the question (and I paraphrase), "Did Ashley get the timing of Allardyce's sacking wrong?" It has developed into a debate, again as far as I understand it, about whether Ashley (and Mort) lack the necessary ambition to improve the club (or as some see it to continue to manage as effectively as the board of the plc, as was) so that it reaches its potential.

 

IMO if the timing of the sacking was wrong, it's only because it should have happened much, much earlier.

 

As for the secondary debate concerning the continuing development of the club it seems to me that the following are relevant:

 

Ashley has bought the club with his own money.

 

Ashley has settled debt with his own money.

 

The club is either now financially secure or more secure than it was before the debt was settled.

 

Ashley is a hard-nosed businessman who either wants to sell the club on at a profit, or is behaving in a more or less altruistic way. In either case there is no benefit to him of leaving the club in a worse position than he found it.

 

He has appointed staff so that the club has its own structures in respect of scouting thereby avoiding the situation where, if a manager leaves, the scouting network goes with him. I think Spurs and Chelsea have similar structures.

 

He has made money available to Keegan in amounts with which Keegan is satisfied will allow him to improve the team's performance in the coming seasons.

 

The main threat to us is relegation brought about by the performance of the manager appointed by the previous chairman. It's difficult to see who Keegan could have bought in the time that he had.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

At the time, they handled Allardyce's sacking badly in my opinion and the timing was all wrong too because it came at a key point in the season which has since negatively effected the new man and with it the team's chances on the pitch of doing something positive this season.

 

But sometimes you have to take these risks (or sometimes they just come to a natural conclusion) and if KK proves an ultimate success, people will look back on Allardyce's sacking and the timing of it not to mention our lack of spending in the remainder of the window with different specs on because the ends would then have justified the means, just as people look back on with favour regarding Gullit's departure and the timing of it. Which lets not forget was not long after spending all the money which left Sir Bobby to scrap around for freebies and bargain basement buys for a period.

 

In short, while I was disappointed with Allardyce's sacking and especially the timing of it, really so, with time to think since however, I'm now of the opinion that these such decisions need to and can only really be judged in time or within full context which isn't now that's for sure.

 

For Ashley and Mort and indeed Wise and Co and Keegan too, they now all need to turn this around to theirs and our advantage, to basically move on and make sure that the decision to sack Allardyce at the stage they did and go the course they did like appointing KK and Wise etal and KK deciding not to bring anyone in, turns out for the best. And if that happens, we will all be delighted and will forget all about the episodes leading to KK's appointment and not spending any money in the window.

 

For what it's worth btw, I think they will turn this around and that KK will be a success. Not like the last time of course, but success in the shape of saving us from relegation and getting us back into the top 6 and playing good football.

 

I won't even mention trophies...

 

Finally out of the fetal position eh?

 

You'll have to explain Parky...

[Mick]

 

You'll have to explain Parky...

 

I'm sure he is hinting that you behaved like a bairn when Allerdyce was sacked, he probably doesn't understand how much you wanted Allardyce to do well so I wouldn't worry too much about his comments.

[Parky]

 

You'll have to explain Parky...

 

I'm sure he is hinting that you behaved like a bairn when Allerdyce was sacked, he probably doesn't understand how much you wanted Allardyce to do well so I wouldn't worry too much about his comments.

 

I think I do.

[Guest Knightrider]

 

You'll have to explain Parky...

 

I'm sure he is hinting that you behaved like a bairn when Allerdyce was sacked, he probably doesn't understand how much you wanted Allardyce to do well so I wouldn't worry too much about his comments.

 

Ah. Well then, to be fair, he has a point. I aknowledge I reacted like a bairn and said many things that were quite pathetic in relation to Ashley, Mort and indeed NUFC.

 

My trouble is that I invest too much emotion into things and conversely, overreact.

 

Still, I wouldn't change myself in that sense when it comes to my football or life. I'd rather be an emotive and passionate person than someone who has nowt to say for themselves or anything else.

 

Anyway, I think we are in safe hands all-round with Ashley, Mort and KK and that things will turn for the better, maybe not exactly next season, but before too long. 

[NE5]

 

Given that we tried to sign Woodgate, who went for £8m, it would seem he just couldn't find anyone to spend on. Maybe the Wise appointment will be helpful for the next transfer window.

 

lets hope we stay up first

 

 

 

Maybe Kev just looked at what players we had, and what the teams below us had about them, and decided we had good enough players to stay up quite easily. So he decided to do a clear out in summer, and buy players then when they aren't at an extra premium.

 

Not very exciting, and very frustrating for us as we chug along to 14th or 15th, but sensible.

 

Honestly the relegation hysteria compared to the results we have had is ridiculous.  If he had good players available in jan but decided to wait for really good players in summer all power to him.

 

If he had of signed a couple, climbed up to tenth and then stayed tenth next year he'd probably get the sack.

 

If he comes 15th this year and comes 6th or 7th next year it'll be far better for all concerned.

 

Dear God...that's just far too boring and sensible. What the hell are you thinking man?

 

Let's work ourselves into a lather about hypothetical stuff we can't substantiate instead. Like Keegan possibly being denied funds. Or Ashley selling up to Tesco's perhaps. With Wise being appointed surely Keegan's days are numbered!! 

 

I hope we don't hear you moaning on about the clubs plight if we lose a few more games and are staring straight at the bottom places in time to come ........

 

As you are clearly happy with the decision to go with what we have.

 

 

[NE5]

 

and the zero spending and ambition of our past that got us into the mess the Halls and Shepherd found us in, and everybody bar the only 4 clubs who qualified for europe more than us during their time running the club after they rescued it.

 

I'm sick of saying this. If you think having a "debt" is so bad, mainly due to expanding the stadium, are you going to say you wish we still had a 36000 capacity ground, and then go to manu and Liverpool supporters and tell them their clubs have been run badly.

 

At the end of the day, if you are afraid of showing ambition and don't do it, you may as well give up.

 

 

 

 

Good job Allardyce spent more than Roeder then, isn't it?

 

Fulham, last summer, spent more than Roeder when he was here too but I'm sure you won't get it.

 

 

[NE5]

 

mackems.gif

 

Exactly, I laughed at the thought of Baggio stating the obvious, especially after reading the "Rich List" thread and seeing those clubs with smaller crowds above us.

 

more proof if any were needed you don't know true mediocrity and lack of ambition if it hit you with a shovel either ie didn't really support the club pre-1992. You prove it all the time.

 

I hope we don't hear you moaning on either if we are needing points desperately in the last few games to stay up.

 

 

 

 

[NE5]

As far as I can see this thread started with the question (and I paraphrase), "Did Ashley get the timing of Allardyce's sacking wrong?" It has developed into a debate, again as far as I understand it, about whether Ashley (and Mort) lack the necessary ambition to improve the club (or as some see it to continue to manage as effectively as the board of the plc, as was) so that it reaches its potential.

 

IMO if the timing of the sacking was wrong, it's only because it should have happened much, much earlier.

 

As for the secondary debate concerning the continuing development of the club it seems to me that the following are relevant:

 

Ashley has bought the club with his own money.

 

Ashley has settled debt with his own money.

 

The club is either now financially secure or more secure than it was before the debt was settled.

 

Ashley is a hard-nosed businessman who either wants to sell the club on at a profit, or is behaving in a more or less altruistic way. In either case there is no benefit to him of leaving the club in a worse position than he found it.

 

He has appointed staff so that the club has its own structures in respect of scouting thereby avoiding the situation where, if a manager leaves, the scouting network goes with him. I think Spurs and Chelsea have similar structures.

 

He has made money available to Keegan in amounts with which Keegan is satisfied will allow him to improve the team's performance in the coming seasons.

 

The main threat to us is relegation brought about by the performance of the manager appointed by the previous chairman. It's difficult to see who Keegan could have bought in the time that he had.

 

 

We will see if the new owners match the Champions League qualification of the old owners, including the 3 highest consecutive league positions in 50 years.

 

There are plenty of players who moved in the transfer window, but you can believe otherwise if you have some sort of agenda.

 

 

[Mick]

 

Fulham, last summer, spent more than Roeder when he was here too but I'm sure you won't get it.

 

 

 

I understand, 2007 Newcastle was more ambitious than 2006 Newcastle but 2007 Fulham was more ambitious than both, OK.

[NE5]

 

Fulham, last summer, spent more than Roeder when he was here too but I'm sure you won't get it.

 

 

 

I understand, 2007 Newcastle was more ambitious than 2006 Newcastle but 2007 Fulham was more ambitious than both, OK.

 

is your new avatar yourself 

[Mick]

 

is your new avatar yourself 

 

[Baggio]

Shame you can't debate the point as I'd have enjoyed proving you wrong, I'd hate to see what your finances are like if you're that naive. That wasn't you on that advert was it? "Steve, dad's found your scoooota" mackems.gif

 

how do manure spend more than wimbledon ?

 

I'll let you work it out in your own time lad.  mackems.gif

 

BTW, my finances and lifestyle are fine thanks

 

 

 

Because Man Utd make a profit of over £50 million before player trading, anything else you want to know or do you just want to admit you're wrong now?

 

We can continue this debate now or you can admit you're wrong.

 

I know you're not the brightest so indi's post here might help you understand it better.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=50034.msg1204124#msg1204124

[Parky]

 

is your new avatar yourself 

 

 

 

 

[NE5]

Shame you can't debate the point as I'd have enjoyed proving you wrong, I'd hate to see what your finances are like if you're that naive. That wasn't you on that advert was it? "Steve, dad's found your scoooota" mackems.gif

 

how do manure spend more than wimbledon ?

 

I'll let you work it out in your own time lad.  mackems.gif

 

BTW, my finances and lifestyle are fine thanks

 

 

 

Because Man Utd make a profit of over £50 million before player trading, anything else you want to know or do you just want to admit you're wrong now?

 

We can continue this debate now or you can admit you're wrong.

 

I'm not wrong Matthew lad. I'll make it easier for you. How do Manu make more money than Newcastle and any other club ?

 

Take your time, I know you don't get it.

 

I won't bother replying unless you get the right answer because basically I haven't got the time to waste on you.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[NE5]

 

is your new avatar yourself 

 

 

 

haha, mick restores his avatar from an ostrich to his favourite one of that horrible man that called him nasty names   

[Mick]

 

is your new avatar yourself 

 

 

 

haha, mick restores his avatar from an ostrich to his favourite one of that horrible man that called him nasty names   

[Baggio]

Shame you can't debate the point as I'd have enjoyed proving you wrong, I'd hate to see what your finances are like if you're that naive. That wasn't you on that advert was it? "Steve, dad's found your scoooota" mackems.gif

 

how do manure spend more than wimbledon ?

 

I'll let you work it out in your own time lad.  mackems.gif

 

BTW, my finances and lifestyle are fine thanks

 

 

 

Because Man Utd make a profit of over £50 million before player trading, anything else you want to know or do you just want to admit you're wrong now?

 

We can continue this debate now or you can admit you're wrong.

 

I'm not wrong Matthew lad. I'll make it easier for you. How do Manu make more money than Newcastle and any other club ?

 

Take your time, I know you don't get it.

 

I won't bother replying unless you get the right answer because basically I haven't got the time to waste on you.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

You're getting confused with profit and revenue lad, you do know the difference don't you?

 

 

[NE5]

Shame you can't debate the point as I'd have enjoyed proving you wrong, I'd hate to see what your finances are like if you're that naive. That wasn't you on that advert was it? "Steve, dad's found your scoooota" mackems.gif

 

how do manure spend more than wimbledon ?

 

I'll let you work it out in your own time lad.  mackems.gif

 

BTW, my finances and lifestyle are fine thanks

 

 

 

Because Man Utd make a profit of over £50 million before player trading, anything else you want to know or do you just want to admit you're wrong now?

 

We can continue this debate now or you can admit you're wrong.

 

I'm not wrong Matthew lad. I'll make it easier for you. How do Manu make more money than Newcastle and any other club ?

 

Take your time, I know you don't get it.

 

I won't bother replying unless you get the right answer because basically I haven't got the time to waste on you.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

You're getting confused with profit and revenue lad, you do know the difference don't you?

 

 

 

oh well, I'll give you one more chance then.......how come manu win more titles than anybody else  ?

 

Don't exert yourself if its too much for you Matthew lad

 

 

[Baggio]

Shame you can't debate the point as I'd have enjoyed proving you wrong, I'd hate to see what your finances are like if you're that naive. That wasn't you on that advert was it? "Steve, dad's found your scoooota" mackems.gif

 

how do manure spend more than wimbledon ?

 

I'll let you work it out in your own time lad.  mackems.gif

 

BTW, my finances and lifestyle are fine thanks

 

 

 

Because Man Utd make a profit of over £50 million before player trading, anything else you want to know or do you just want to admit you're wrong now?

 

We can continue this debate now or you can admit you're wrong.

 

I'm not wrong Matthew lad. I'll make it easier for you. How do Manu make more money than Newcastle and any other club ?

 

Take your time, I know you don't get it.

 

I won't bother replying unless you get the right answer because basically I haven't got the time to waste on you.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

You're getting confused with profit and revenue lad, you do know the difference don't you?

 

 

 

oh well, I'll give you one more chance then.......how come manu win more titles than anybody else  ?

 

Don't exert yourself if its too much for you Matthew lad

 

 

 

I'll take that as a no then, lad. I'll get the dictionary out for you. mackems.gif

 

revenue

 

noun

1.  the entire amount of income before any deductions are made [syn: gross] 

2.  government income due to taxation

 

profit   

n. 

An advantageous gain or return; benefit.

The return received on a business undertaking after all operating expenses have been met.

 

 

Now if a club like Man Utd who has the biggest fanbase in the league doesn't make a profit, where will the money come from to sign players?

[Guest fraser]

As far as I can see this thread started with the question (and I paraphrase), "Did Ashley get the timing of Allardyce's sacking wrong?" It has developed into a debate, again as far as I understand it, about whether Ashley (and Mort) lack the necessary ambition to improve the club (or as some see it to continue to manage as effectively as the board of the plc, as was) so that it reaches its potential.

 

IMO if the timing of the sacking was wrong, it's only because it should have happened much, much earlier.

 

As for the secondary debate concerning the continuing development of the club it seems to me that the following are relevant:

 

Ashley has bought the club with his own money.

 

Ashley has settled debt with his own money.

 

The club is either now financially secure or more secure than it was before the debt was settled.

 

Ashley is a hard-nosed businessman who either wants to sell the club on at a profit, or is behaving in a more or less altruistic way. In either case there is no benefit to him of leaving the club in a worse position than he found it.

 

He has appointed staff so that the club has its own structures in respect of scouting thereby avoiding the situation where, if a manager leaves, the scouting network goes with him. I think Spurs and Chelsea have similar structures.

 

He has made money available to Keegan in amounts with which Keegan is satisfied will allow him to improve the team's performance in the coming seasons.

 

The main threat to us is relegation brought about by the performance of the manager appointed by the previous chairman. It's difficult to see who Keegan could have bought in the time that he had.

 

 

We will see if the new owners match the Champions League qualification of the old owners, including the 3 highest consecutive league positions in 50 years.

 

There are plenty of players who moved in the transfer window, but you can believe otherwise if you have some sort of agenda.

 

 

 

You have a talent for stating the obvious, 'We will see if the new owners match the Champions League qualification of the old owners, including the 3 highest consecutive league positions in 50 years.' Indeed we will should we live long enough.

 

There are plenty of players who moved in the transfer window. Some, I believe, from Brentford to Gillingham.

 

Do you think, given his not inconsiderable financial outlay, that, irrespective of the performance of any board over the last fifty years or so, Ashley is a metaphorical turkey voting for an early Christmas? This is what essentially underpins your argument, isn't it, given my remarks above?

[ChezGiven]

Everything's been GREAT since they took over.