The NUFC section "own up" thread...........

[afar]

Having doubts about Keegan was an entirely sensible position IMO. We'd gone 8 games without a win, and he hadn't shown any signs of the imagination needed to make changes and turn things around. Credit to him, he then hit on a new formation that's got us moving back up again, but it's all had a bit of a trial and error feel to it. He's also had the advantage of a relatively injury-free squad. Previous managers haven't been quite as lucky.

 

 

 

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread.

 

 

i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it.

 

I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season.

 

Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie.

 

To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce?

 

 

 

 

Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !!

 

Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ?

 

Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to anyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster.

 

KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans.

[fredbob]

Having doubts about Keegan was an entirely sensible position IMO. We'd gone 8 games without a win, and he hadn't shown any signs of the imagination needed to make changes and turn things around. Credit to him, he then hit on a new formation that's got us moving back up again, but it's all had a bit of a trial and error feel to it. He's also had the advantage of a relatively injury-free squad. Previous managers haven't been quite as lucky.

 

 

 

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread.

 

 

i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it.

 

I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season.

 

Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie.

 

To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce?

 

 

 

 

Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !!

 

Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ?

 

Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to enyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster.

 

KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans.

 

Have i put a bee under your bonnet or something??

 

As far as i can rememebr ive posted 2 responses to you which you've begrudigngly agreed with. Get over yourself.

 

Where have i compared Roeder the manager with Keegan the manager??

 

In fact you've nicely summed up exactly what my minor concerns are, Roeder benefitted from riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus well, are you actually that naive and blindsighted to have absolutely no concerns whatsoever that keegan might not be benefitting from the "thank god Allardyce has gone" bus? After 10 games, im happy to admit that yes i am a little concerned, and the only time i will put those concerns behind me is next season when we can see for sure whether Keegan has had the efect we all hope for.

 

Like ive said, im too pessimistic a supporter (having seen some decent managers appointed and subsequently fail) to think that any manager will be a resounding success irrespective of there pedigree, only the absolutle cream of maangement would just about get my blind faith, and that is at a push.

 

Do you completely disagree with me still?

 

EDIT: There's belief and then theres blind faith, what you've described sounds like the latter im afraid, like ive said, i dont subscribe to that because im not naive.

[Guest Phil K]

I'm surprised we haven't seen a few more people saying how wrong they were to question Keegan or wrong when calling for his head, I guess it didn't happen. 

Aren't you being a little presumptious ?

While delighted at the turn around, he's hardly took the Prem by storm FFS....

I recall Gemmill having a dig at my horror at signing Alan Smith - and saying much as you're saying now, after a couple of decent games at the start of the season.

And what happened ?

It's called counting your chickens before they've hatched.

The time to act in this way is when the team are flying high, and relatively successful - not after 3 wins and a draw (lovely as its been) and stopping the rot.

Its commendable, surely.

But far too early to act SMUG.

[afar]

Having doubts about Keegan was an entirely sensible position IMO. We'd gone 8 games without a win, and he hadn't shown any signs of the imagination needed to make changes and turn things around. Credit to him, he then hit on a new formation that's got us moving back up again, but it's all had a bit of a trial and error feel to it. He's also had the advantage of a relatively injury-free squad. Previous managers haven't been quite as lucky.

 

 

 

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread.

 

 

i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it.

 

I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season.

 

Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie.

 

To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce?

 

 

 

 

Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !!

 

Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ?

 

Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to enyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster.

 

KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans.

 

Have i put a bee under your bonnet or something??

 

As far as i can rememebr ive posted 2 responses to you which you've begrudigngly agreed with. Get over yourself.

 

Where have i compared Roeder the manager with Keegan the manager??

 

In fact you've nicely summed up exactly what my minor concerns are, Roeder benefitted from riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus well, are you actually that naive and blindsighted to have absolutely no concerns whatsoever that keegan might not be benefitting from the "thank god Allardyce has gone" bus? After 10 games, im happy to admit that yes i am a little concerned, and the only time i will put those concerns behind me is next season when we can see for sure whether Keegan has had the efect we all hope for.

 

Like ive said, im too cynical a supporter (having seen some decent managers appointed and subsequently fail) to think that any manager will be a resounding success irrespective of there pedigree, only the absolutle cream of maangement would just about get my blind faith, and that is at a push.

 

Do you completely disagree with me still?

 

EDIT: There's belief and then theres blind faith, what you've described sounds like the latter im afraid, like ive said, i dont subscribe to that because im not naive.

 

 

Where are you comparing the two ? Can you read your own posts ffs.

 

"Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie."

 

The Roeder situation was completely different to KK's, completely 'citing' it makes absolutely no sense.

 

You seem to be suggesting that you are the only supporter to have been dissapointed by the failings of other managers. Well take a ticket buddy, there are plenty in line ahead of you.

 

I am one of the most pessimistic fans I know, I'm not up to Phil K's level ;P but I often think no matter what we do it'll end in tears. But I've always had faith in KK and always will, he owes us nothing and the least we can do is show some faith in him and trust him that no matter what transpires he'll only have the best interests of NUFC in his mind.

 

As for the buses is concerned, it's not a bad point however, I for one was not too happy at the the time of the sacking of SA and I am not on that bus. Souness was loathed almost unamimously by fans and players a like, I don't think SA had the time to build up that same level of hatred.

[Guest Phil K]

 

I am one of the most pessimistic fans I know, I'm not up to Phil K's level ;P but I often think no matter what we do it'll end in tears.

You seem to have missed the fact that we've been at the wrong end of the table for a few seasons now, mate - pessimistic ?

Is it any wonder ? I'm not into blind optimism as I think thats one of the reasons we keep failing.

[afar]

 

I am one of the most pessimistic fans I know, I'm not up to Phil K's level ;P but I often think no matter what we do it'll end in tears.

You seem to have missed the fact that we've been at the wrong end of the table for a few seasons now, mate - pessimistic ?

Is it any wonder ? I'm not into blind optimism as I think thats one of the reasons we keep failing.

 

Phil, you've always been pessimistic, don't try and hide it. I remember from old toontastic days, when things were a little better you were the only one that agreed with me that it wouldn't last

 

It's ok to be pessimistic at least that way we can never be disspointed only happy to be proved wrong.

[NE5]

I thought Leazes/NE5 might post in this thread. How stupid am I!

 

have you owned up to denying someone edited threads when you yourself at the time had edited avatars on your site 

 

I thought Chris Waddle would never make it

 

 

[NE5]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

[Mick]

Aren't you being a little presumptious ?

While delighted at the turn around, he's hardly took the Prem by storm FFS....

I recall Gemmill having a dig at my horror at signing Alan Smith - and saying much as you're saying now, after a couple of decent games at the start of the season.

And what happened ?

It's called counting your chickens before they've hatched.

The time to act in this way is when the team are flying high, and relatively successful - not after 3 wins and a draw (lovely as its been) and stopping the rot.

Its commendable, surely.

But far too early to act SMUG.

 

I like the first question, a question that could just as easily be directed to those who were having a go at Keegan after a few weeks in the job.  I'm quite happy to say that Keegan will leave us in a better position than when he took over, something which he's done both times he's left in the past.

 

Also, just because you get Smith right doesn't mean that you'll get everything else right, if that was the case then most on this forum would be right as very few thought he was a good signing.

 

Keegan may have lost a few games but that was down to circumstances which he inherited, some realised that, others didn't and the knee-jerk reaction was pathetic.

[afar]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little.

 

He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

[NE5]

Aren't you being a little presumptious ?

While delighted at the turn around, he's hardly took the Prem by storm FFS....

I recall Gemmill having a dig at my horror at signing Alan Smith - and saying much as you're saying now, after a couple of decent games at the start of the season.

And what happened ?

It's called counting your chickens before they've hatched.

The time to act in this way is when the team are flying high, and relatively successful - not after 3 wins and a draw (lovely as its been) and stopping the rot.

Its commendable, surely.

But far too early to act SMUG.

 

I like the first question, a question that could just as easily be directed to those who were having a go at Keegan after a few weeks in the job.  I'm quite happy to say that Keegan will leave us in a better position than when he took over, something which he's done both times he's left in the past.

 

Also, just because you get Smith right doesn't mean that you'll get everything else right, if that was the case then most on this forum would be right as very few thought he was a good signing.

 

Keegan may have lost a few games but that was down to circumstances which he inherited, some realised that, others didn't and the knee-jerk reaction was pathetic.

 

I think that one or two of Allardyce's signings should be reserved judgement on now we are playing more football. Smith being one of them, because he has the attitude, if he doesn't succeed then its because his injury has basically finished him as being the player he could have been based on what he was at Leeds.

 

I'm not sure that Duff will be the player he was at Blackburn, he has lost some pace, we will see.

 

Viduka has been playing with more desire, he's never been pacy but he is looking more hungry and up for it. Needs to keep it up. Same goes for Barton who is now improving and was a good player at Man City

 

[NE5]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little.

 

He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

 

I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment.

 

He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions.

 

We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver.

 

He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably.

 

I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer.

 

I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure.

 

[Baggio]

I'm surprised we haven't seen a few more people saying how wrong they were to question Keegan or wrong when calling for his head, I guess it didn't happen.   

Aren't you being a little presumptious ?

While delighted at the turn around, he's hardly took the Prem by storm FFS....

I recall Gemmill having a dig at my horror at signing Alan Smith - and saying much as you're saying now, after a couple of decent games at the start of the season.

And what happened ?

It's called counting your chickens before they've hatched.

The time to act in this way is when the team are flying high, and relatively successful - not after 3 wins and a draw (lovely as its been) and stopping the rot.

Its commendable, surely.

But far too early to act SMUG.

 

Fair comment Phil, we've turned the corner but it's still early days.

 

The signing of Smith was a complete waste of money, it was so obvious he would be a flop because he's a poor player but his 'get stuck in' mentality was enough to fool some, probably the same people who didn't like Robert because he was lazy.

[Mick]

 

I think that one or two of Allardyce's signings should be reserved judgement on now we are playing more football. Smith being one of them, because he has the attitude, if he doesn't succeed then its because his injury has basically finished him as being the player he could have been based on what he was at Leeds.

 

I'm not sure that Duff will be the player he was at Blackburn, he has lost some pace, we will see.

 

Viduka has been playing with more desire, he's never been pacy but he is looking more hungry and up for it. Needs to keep it up. Same goes for Barton who is now improving and was a good player at Man City

 

 

Smith has shown nothing at all to suggest he's going to improve although he could, my guess is that he'll not.

[Baggio]

Aren't you being a little presumptious ?

While delighted at the turn around, he's hardly took the Prem by storm FFS....

I recall Gemmill having a dig at my horror at signing Alan Smith - and saying much as you're saying now, after a couple of decent games at the start of the season.

And what happened ?

It's called counting your chickens before they've hatched.

The time to act in this way is when the team are flying high, and relatively successful - not after 3 wins and a draw (lovely as its been) and stopping the rot.

Its commendable, surely.

But far too early to act SMUG.

 

I like the first question, a question that could just as easily be directed to those who were having a go at Keegan after a few weeks in the job.  I'm quite happy to say that Keegan will leave us in a better position than when he took over, something which he's done both times he's left in the past.

 

Also, just because you get Smith right doesn't mean that you'll get everything else right, if that was the case then most on this forum would be right as very few thought he was a good signing.

 

Keegan may have lost a few games but that was down to circumstances which he inherited, some realised that, others didn't and the knee-jerk reaction was pathetic.

 

Some of the knee jerking was pathetic like, I remember reading a 'Keegan out' thread after the Blackburn game which was IMO our best performance of the season at the time.

[NE5]

 

I think that one or two of Allardyce's signings should be reserved judgement on now we are playing more football. Smith being one of them, because he has the attitude, if he doesn't succeed then its because his injury has basically finished him as being the player he could have been based on what he was at Leeds.

 

I'm not sure that Duff will be the player he was at Blackburn, he has lost some pace, we will see.

 

Viduka has been playing with more desire, he's never been pacy but he is looking more hungry and up for it. Needs to keep it up. Same goes for Barton who is now improving and was a good player at Man City

 

 

Smith has shown nothing at all to suggest he's going to improve although he could, my guess is that he'll not.

 

Maybe. We will see.

 

 

[fredbob]

Having doubts about Keegan was an entirely sensible position IMO. We'd gone 8 games without a win, and he hadn't shown any signs of the imagination needed to make changes and turn things around. Credit to him, he then hit on a new formation that's got us moving back up again, but it's all had a bit of a trial and error feel to it. He's also had the advantage of a relatively injury-free squad. Previous managers haven't been quite as lucky.

 

 

 

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread.

 

 

i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it.

 

I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season.

 

Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie.

 

To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce?

 

 

 

 

Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !!

 

Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ?

 

Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to enyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster.

 

KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans.

 

Have i put a bee under your bonnet or something??

 

As far as i can rememebr ive posted 2 responses to you which you've begrudigngly agreed with. Get over yourself.

 

Where have i compared Roeder the manager with Keegan the manager??

 

In fact you've nicely summed up exactly what my minor concerns are, Roeder benefitted from riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus well, are you actually that naive and blindsighted to have absolutely no concerns whatsoever that keegan might not be benefitting from the "thank god Allardyce has gone" bus? After 10 games, im happy to admit that yes i am a little concerned, and the only time i will put those concerns behind me is next season when we can see for sure whether Keegan has had the efect we all hope for.

 

Like ive said, im too cynical a supporter (having seen some decent managers appointed and subsequently fail) to think that any manager will be a resounding success irrespective of there pedigree, only the absolutle cream of maangement would just about get my blind faith, and that is at a push.

 

Do you completely disagree with me still?

 

EDIT: There's belief and then theres blind faith, what you've described sounds like the latter im afraid, like ive said, i dont subscribe to that because im not naive.

 

 

Where are you comparing the two ? Can you read your own posts ffs.

 

"Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie."

 

The Roeder situation was completely different to KK's, completely 'citing' it makes absolutely no sense.

 

You seem to be suggesting that you are the only supporter to have been dissapointed by the failings of other managers. Well take a ticket buddy, there are plenty in line ahead of you.

 

I am one of the most pessimistic fans I know, I'm not up to Phil K's level ;P but I often think no matter what we do it'll end in tears. But I've always had faith in KK and always will, he owes us nothing and the least we can do is show some faith in him and trust him that no matter what transpires he'll only have the best interests of NUFC in his mind.

 

As for the buses is concerned, it's not a bad point however, I for one was not too happy at the the time of the sacking of SA and I am not on that bus. Souness was loathed almost unamimously by fans and players a like, I don't think SA had the time to build up that same level of hatred.

 

And how is that a comparison?? Thats an example, as intended in the original post of where some concerns lie. Im not saying Roeder is a better manager than Keegan or Keegan is a better man than Roeder, im just saying that there is a precedent of the team playing under a regime they didnt enjoy and when that regime ended the reilef showed in their subsequent performances. Whats so vastly different to the current situation? I can see similarities hence my cautious attitude.

 

"I seem to be suggesting "that i am the only one to be dissapointed by the failings of other managers." - What?? You've literally just made that up. Get a grip man.

 

All im doing is excercisng my right to caution having witnessed things like these go tits up for us in the past. I cant believe you're that narrow minded that you cant see where my caution comes from.

 

As for the faith in Keegan thing, well yeh, i agree upto a point, and i love Keegan and was desperate and am desperate for him not to ruin his legacy with us. Ive already said in the past and in fact present that i would rather have no one else in charge of our transfer funds.

 

The buses thing is the crux of my point, it seems clear to me that the players didnt respond to allardyce as would of been expected, so that is exactly where my concerns with Keegan lie at the moment, like i say, next season is where it will show for me.

[afar]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little.

 

He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

 

I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment.

 

He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions.

 

We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver.

 

He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably.

 

I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer.

 

I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure.

 

 

I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above,  that we drifted into wilderness ?

[Mick]

 

And how is that a comparison?? Thats an example, as intended in the original post of where some concerns lie. Im not saying Roeder is a better manager than Keegan or Keegan is a better man than Roeder, im just saying that there is a precedent of the team playing under a regime they didnt enjoy and when that regime ended the reilef showed in their subsequent performances. Whats so vastly different to the current situation? I can see similarities hence my cautious attitude.

 

"I seem to be suggesting "that i am the only one to be dissapointed by the failings of other managers." - What?? You've literally just made that up. Get a grip man.

 

All im doing is excercisng my right to caution having witnessed things like these go tits up for us in the past. I cant believe you're that narrow minded that you cant see where my caution comes from.

 

As for the faith in Keegan thing, well yeh, i agree upto a point, and i love Keegan and was desperate and am desperate for him not to ruin his legacy with us. Ive already said in the past and in fact present that i would rather have no one else in charge of our transfer funds.

 

The buses thing is the crux of my point, it seems clear to me that the players didnt respond to allardyce as would of been expected, so that is exactly where my concerns with Keegan lie at the moment, like i say, next season is where it will show for me.

 

Roeder as a manager doesn't come anywhere near to Keegan and I find that easy to say.  Keegan is miles ahead of him and I guess very few people would say that he wasn't.

 

[afar]

Having doubts about Keegan was an entirely sensible position IMO. We'd gone 8 games without a win, and he hadn't shown any signs of the imagination needed to make changes and turn things around. Credit to him, he then hit on a new formation that's got us moving back up again, but it's all had a bit of a trial and error feel to it. He's also had the advantage of a relatively injury-free squad. Previous managers haven't been quite as lucky.

 

 

 

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread.

 

 

i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it.

 

I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season.

 

Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie.

 

To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce?

 

 

 

 

Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !!

 

Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ?

 

Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to enyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster.

 

KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans.

 

Have i put a bee under your bonnet or something??

 

As far as i can rememebr ive posted 2 responses to you which you've begrudigngly agreed with. Get over yourself.

 

Where have i compared Roeder the manager with Keegan the manager??

 

In fact you've nicely summed up exactly what my minor concerns are, Roeder benefitted from riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus well, are you actually that naive and blindsighted to have absolutely no concerns whatsoever that keegan might not be benefitting from the "thank god Allardyce has gone" bus? After 10 games, im happy to admit that yes i am a little concerned, and the only time i will put those concerns behind me is next season when we can see for sure whether Keegan has had the efect we all hope for.

 

Like ive said, im too cynical a supporter (having seen some decent managers appointed and subsequently fail) to think that any manager will be a resounding success irrespective of there pedigree, only the absolutle cream of maangement would just about get my blind faith, and that is at a push.

 

Do you completely disagree with me still?

 

EDIT: There's belief and then theres blind faith, what you've described sounds like the latter im afraid, like ive said, i dont subscribe to that because im not naive.

 

 

Where are you comparing the two ? Can you read your own posts ffs.

 

"Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie."

 

The Roeder situation was completely different to KK's, completely 'citing' it makes absolutely no sense.

 

You seem to be suggesting that you are the only supporter to have been dissapointed by the failings of other managers. Well take a ticket buddy, there are plenty in line ahead of you.

 

I am one of the most pessimistic fans I know, I'm not up to Phil K's level ;P but I often think no matter what we do it'll end in tears. But I've always had faith in KK and always will, he owes us nothing and the least we can do is show some faith in him and trust him that no matter what transpires he'll only have the best interests of NUFC in his mind.

 

As for the buses is concerned, it's not a bad point however, I for one was not too happy at the the time of the sacking of SA and I am not on that bus. Souness was loathed almost unamimously by fans and players a like, I don't think SA had the time to build up that same level of hatred.

 

And how is that a comparison?? Thats an example, as intended in the original post of where some concerns lie. Im not saying Roeder is a better manager than Keegan or Keegan is a better man than Roeder, im just saying that there is a precedent of the team playing under a regime they didnt enjoy and when that regime ended the reilef showed in their subsequent performances. Whats so vastly different to the current situation? I can see similarities hence my cautious attitude.

 

"I seem to be suggesting "that i am the only one to be dissapointed by the failings of other managers." - What?? You've literally just made that up. Get a grip man.

 

All im doing is excercisng my right to caution having witnessed things like these go tits up for us in the past. I cant believe you're that narrow minded that you cant see where my caution comes from.

 

As for the faith in Keegan thing, well yeh, i agree upto a point, and i love Keegan and was desperate and am desperate for him not to ruin his legacy with us. Ive already said in the past and in fact present that i would rather have no one else in charge of our transfer funds.

 

The buses thing is the crux of my point, it seems clear to me that the players didnt respond to allardyce as would of been expected, so that is exactly where my concerns with Keegan lie at the moment, like i say, next season is where it will show for me.

 

OK leaving out the bitterness, which was instigated in this thread by me, so I apologise for that. Don't you think that the buses were in completely different stages for Roeder and KK ? When Roeder took over that anti Souness Bus was full to overflowing, kind of a bendy double decker type (if there is such a thing). While the Anti Big Sam bus was fill up nicely but there was still plenty of room on board, that didn't necessiate the giving up of your seat for the pensioner trying use their bus pass before 9am.

 

I have never witnessed such a shear dislike for the manager as we had under Souness, I don't even think Guillet reached those levels, certainly not from the fans anyway. SA's techniques were not going down too well with the players and clearly not producing the results he was after, but he hadn't lost the dressing room like Souness had. If anything SA's techniques were a hinderance to KK becuase the players clearly weren't fit enough rather than the help the Anti Souness factor had on Roeder.

[NE5]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little.

 

He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

 

I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment.

 

He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions.

 

We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver.

 

He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably.

 

I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer.

 

I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure.

 

 

I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above,  that we drifted into wilderness ?

 

aye, I understand that. I used to like a player called Tommy Knox, and my first ever favourite player was Trevor Hockey. Both players who if I saw them now would probably realise they weren't the bees knees.

 

I think that Irving Nattrass is one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for Newcastle. He played right back, but played some games as a centre back and when he played there he was awesome, people say Woodgate was great but Nattrass was just like that in fact I don't really think we saw the best of Woodgate at Newcastle anyway.

 

I think Gordon Lee was the right man at the wrong time for Newcastle to be honest, I know most people attach the stigma of selling MacDonald to him but we did better without MacDonald, he was right to sell him, we got a good price for a player that we knew wouldn't play till he was 30, and if we had had a board that backed Gordon Lee he would have brought more success to Newcastle like all of his successors did, we were on the right road when he left. He had the right idea but was totally misrepresented and has been since too.

 

Peter Withe was a top player by the way.

 

 

[afar]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little.

 

He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

 

I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment.

 

He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions.

 

We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver.

 

He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably.

 

I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer.

 

I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure.

 

 

I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above,  that we drifted into wilderness ?

 

aye, I understand that. I used to like a player called Tommy Knox, and my first ever favourite player was Trevor Hockey. Both players who if I saw them now would probably realise they weren't the bees knees.

 

I think that Irving Nattrass is one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for Newcastle. He played right back, but played some games as a centre back and when he played there he was awesome, people say Woodgate was great but Nattrass was just like that in fact I don't really think we saw the best of Woodgate at Newcastle anyway.

 

I think Gordon Lee was the right man at the wrong time for Newcastle to be honest, I know most people attach the stigma of selling MacDonald to him but we did better without MacDonald, he was right to sell him, we got a good price for a player that we knew wouldn't play till he was 30, and if we had had a board that backed Gordon Lee he would have brought more success to Newcastle like all of his successors did, we were on the right road when he left. He had the right idea but was totally misrepresented and has been since too.

 

Peter Withe was a top player by the way.

 

 

 

I don't think the fans ever forgave him for selling Supermac, it's difficult for people not around at the time to understand MM's stature at the club at the time. I was still too young to understand everythingt but even at my young age I was able to appreciate how much of a star Supermac was. His goals per game record is phenominal, selling him was akin to if Guillet had sold Shearer. The difference between Guillet and Gordon Lee though was that at least Lee had a clue and was right to want rid of his star player. I think we finished in our highest league postion, in a a very long time under Lee. He aquired the 'anti star' label, rightly or wrongly people thought he preferred a team of workers as oppossed to one brimming with talent.

[fredbob]

Having doubts about Keegan was an entirely sensible position IMO. We'd gone 8 games without a win, and he hadn't shown any signs of the imagination needed to make changes and turn things around. Credit to him, he then hit on a new formation that's got us moving back up again, but it's all had a bit of a trial and error feel to it. He's also had the advantage of a relatively injury-free squad. Previous managers haven't been quite as lucky.

 

 

 

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread.

 

 

i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it.

 

I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season.

 

Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie.

 

To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce?

 

 

 

 

Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !!

 

Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ?

 

Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to enyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster.

 

KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans.

 

Have i put a bee under your bonnet or something??

 

As far as i can rememebr ive posted 2 responses to you which you've begrudigngly agreed with. Get over yourself.

 

Where have i compared Roeder the manager with Keegan the manager??

 

In fact you've nicely summed up exactly what my minor concerns are, Roeder benefitted from riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus well, are you actually that naive and blindsighted to have absolutely no concerns whatsoever that keegan might not be benefitting from the "thank god Allardyce has gone" bus? After 10 games, im happy to admit that yes i am a little concerned, and the only time i will put those concerns behind me is next season when we can see for sure whether Keegan has had the efect we all hope for.

 

Like ive said, im too cynical a supporter (having seen some decent managers appointed and subsequently fail) to think that any manager will be a resounding success irrespective of there pedigree, only the absolutle cream of maangement would just about get my blind faith, and that is at a push.

 

Do you completely disagree with me still?

 

EDIT: There's belief and then theres blind faith, what you've described sounds like the latter im afraid, like ive said, i dont subscribe to that because im not naive.

 

 

Where are you comparing the two ? Can you read your own posts ffs.

 

"Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie."

 

The Roeder situation was completely different to KK's, completely 'citing' it makes absolutely no sense.

 

You seem to be suggesting that you are the only supporter to have been dissapointed by the failings of other managers. Well take a ticket buddy, there are plenty in line ahead of you.

 

I am one of the most pessimistic fans I know, I'm not up to Phil K's level ;P but I often think no matter what we do it'll end in tears. But I've always had faith in KK and always will, he owes us nothing and the least we can do is show some faith in him and trust him that no matter what transpires he'll only have the best interests of NUFC in his mind.

 

As for the buses is concerned, it's not a bad point however, I for one was not too happy at the the time of the sacking of SA and I am not on that bus. Souness was loathed almost unamimously by fans and players a like, I don't think SA had the time to build up that same level of hatred.

 

And how is that a comparison?? Thats an example, as intended in the original post of where some concerns lie. Im not saying Roeder is a better manager than Keegan or Keegan is a better man than Roeder, im just saying that there is a precedent of the team playing under a regime they didnt enjoy and when that regime ended the reilef showed in their subsequent performances. Whats so vastly different to the current situation? I can see similarities hence my cautious attitude.

 

"I seem to be suggesting "that i am the only one to be dissapointed by the failings of other managers." - What?? You've literally just made that up. Get a grip man.

 

All im doing is excercisng my right to caution having witnessed things like these go tits up for us in the past. I cant believe you're that narrow minded that you cant see where my caution comes from.

 

As for the faith in Keegan thing, well yeh, i agree upto a point, and i love Keegan and was desperate and am desperate for him not to ruin his legacy with us. Ive already said in the past and in fact present that i would rather have no one else in charge of our transfer funds.

 

The buses thing is the crux of my point, it seems clear to me that the players didnt respond to allardyce as would of been expected, so that is exactly where my concerns with Keegan lie at the moment, like i say, next season is where it will show for me.

 

OK leaving out the bitterness, which was instigated in this thread by me, so I apologise for that. Don't you think that the buses were in completely different stages for Roeder and KK ? When Roeder took over that anti Souness Bus was full to overflowing, kind of a bendy double decker type (if there is such a thing). While the Anti Big Sam bus was fill up nicely but there was still plenty of room on board, that didn't necessiate the giving up of your seat for the pensioner trying use their bus pass before 9am.

 

I have never witnessed such a shear dislike for the manager as we had under Souness, I don't even think Guillet reached those levels, certainly not from the fans anyway. SA's techniques were not going down too well with the players and clearly not producing the results he was after, but he hadn't lost the dressing room like Souness had. If anything SA's techniques were a hinderance to KK becuase the players clearly weren't fit enough rather than the help the Anti Souness factor had on Roeder.

 

You give an excellent bus analogy! 

 

Yeh i acknowledge 100% that there was no way near the same level of contempt for Allardyce as there was for Souness, but i do still see similarities as small as they are with what happened in the past. The cracks did appear to show and i sensed the relief of Allardyce going and Keegan returning at the Stoke game, and it showed.

 

No way am i against Keegan, but i still think its not wrong to tread with caution after only 10 games. We saw with roeder that the team struggled to take to his methods in the summer and that is arguably because of the fact that he is a very poor manager, but with Allardyce who was reknowened for his training techniqes and is arguably as good as Keegan we found out again that the squad failed to take to his techniques.

 

Whos to say the same will happen with Keegan? I'm certainly not, however i will excerise my caution and not throw my hat onto the Keegan train just yet, i'd like to wait, like ive said till next season where i can know for sure whehter the squad has taken to his methods, then i will be 150% behind him rather than the embarressing to admit 75% im at at the moment.

[NE5]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little.

 

He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

 

I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment.

 

He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions.

 

We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver.

 

He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably.

 

I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer.

 

I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure.

 

 

I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above,  that we drifted into wilderness ?

 

aye, I understand that. I used to like a player called Tommy Knox, and my first ever favourite player was Trevor Hockey. Both players who if I saw them now would probably realise they weren't the bees knees.

 

I think that Irving Nattrass is one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for Newcastle. He played right back, but played some games as a centre back and when he played there he was awesome, people say Woodgate was great but Nattrass was just like that in fact I don't really think we saw the best of Woodgate at Newcastle anyway.

 

I think Gordon Lee was the right man at the wrong time for Newcastle to be honest, I know most people attach the stigma of selling MacDonald to him but we did better without MacDonald, he was right to sell him, we got a good price for a player that we knew wouldn't play till he was 30, and if we had had a board that backed Gordon Lee he would have brought more success to Newcastle like all of his successors did, we were on the right road when he left. He had the right idea but was totally misrepresented and has been since too.

 

Peter Withe was a top player by the way.

 

 

 

I don't think the fans ever forgave him for selling Supermac, it's difficult for people not around at the time to understand MM's stature at the club at the time. I was still too young to understand everythingt but even at my young age I was able to appreciate how much of a star Supermac was. His goals per game record is phenominal, selling him was akin to if Guillet had sold Shearer. The difference between Guillet and Gordon Lee though was that at least Lee had a clue and was right to want rid of his star player. I think we finished in our highest league postion, in a a very long time under Lee. He aquired the 'anti star' label, rightly or wrongly people thought he preferred a team of workers as oppossed to one brimming with talent.

 

I can't agree that the squad of players was so talented. They finished 15th for 2 consecutive seasons. They finished 15th again under Lee in the first season before he made the changes that shot us up to 5th.

 

There were some good players but essentially there were too many individuals and too many homers. Too many inconsistent players. The whole mood of the club was that they were happy with seeing individual players, on the basis that if 2 or 3 of them had a good game then it was OK. it kept the club up and that was about it.

 

Lee brought an altogether a different more professional attitude and more professional approach. He influenced me a lot to be honest. He quite simply said that Newcastle's whole approach to the game was wrong, he made a comment saying they played "back to front" football. He meant that the club relied too much on individuality and the team ethic was poor, and if you wanted to have consistent results then you needed consistently performing players, and this stemmed from attitude, approach, respect for your fellow team mates etc etc. Pretty basic stuff you may think but think about it, it epitomised some of the things that were wrong with the team and the club that he took over.

 

He got off on the wrong foot completely, when he said that he didn't like MacDonald advertising Tartan bitter on placards in the city, because he thought it was wrong for a professional athlete to present such an image and he should be seen to concentrate on his health, fitness and behave as such.  Of course he was quite right, but it was new thing, a new idea, and people didn't like it because MacDonald was the great untouchable. This brought on his comments about wanting a team and not one player held up as being bigger and better than all the others.

 

All bollocks. He had a problem winning over fans from that point, and became misrepresented. He was winning the fans over in the end, when we were 2nd in the table in the November and looking like genuine contenders for the highest league position for many many years. But it came too late, he buggered off to Everton quite simply because Newcastle were a shitty club with a board that wouldn't back him even with the money he got for offloading MacDonald, and Everton were and acted like the big club they were at the time.

 

I've posted on this before, I'll look for it if its on this server.

 

 

 

 

[afar]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little.

 

He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

 

I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment.

 

He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions.

 

We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver.

 

He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably.

 

I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer.

 

I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure.

 

 

I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above,  that we drifted into wilderness ?

 

aye, I understand that. I used to like a player called Tommy Knox, and my first ever favourite player was Trevor Hockey. Both players who if I saw them now would probably realise they weren't the bees knees.

 

I think that Irving Nattrass is one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for Newcastle. He played right back, but played some games as a centre back and when he played there he was awesome, people say Woodgate was great but Nattrass was just like that in fact I don't really think we saw the best of Woodgate at Newcastle anyway.

 

I think Gordon Lee was the right man at the wrong time for Newcastle to be honest, I know most people attach the stigma of selling MacDonald to him but we did better without MacDonald, he was right to sell him, we got a good price for a player that we knew wouldn't play till he was 30, and if we had had a board that backed Gordon Lee he would have brought more success to Newcastle like all of his successors did, we were on the right road when he left. He had the right idea but was totally misrepresented and has been since too.

 

Peter Withe was a top player by the way.

 

 

 

I don't think the fans ever forgave him for selling Supermac, it's difficult for people not around at the time to understand MM's stature at the club at the time. I was still too young to understand everythingt but even at my young age I was able to appreciate how much of a star Supermac was. His goals per game record is phenominal, selling him was akin to if Guillet had sold Shearer. The difference between Guillet and Gordon Lee though was that at least Lee had a clue and was right to want rid of his star player. I think we finished in our highest league postion, in a a very long time under Lee. He aquired the 'anti star' label, rightly or wrongly people thought he preferred a team of workers as oppossed to one brimming with talent.

 

I can't agree that the squad of players was so talented. They finished 15th for 2 consecutive seasons. They finished 15th again under Lee in the first season before he made the changes that shot us up to 5th.

 

There were some good players but essentially there were too many individuals and too many homers. Too many inconsistent players. The whole mood of the club was that they were happy with seeing individual players, on the basis that if 2 or 3 of them had a good game then it was OK. it kept the club up and that was about it.

 

Lee brought an altogether a different more professional attitude and more professional approach. He influenced me a lot to be honest. He quite simply said that Newcastle's whole approach to the game was wrong, he made a comment saying they played "back to front" football. He meant that the club relied too much on individuality and the team ethic was poor, and if you wanted to have consistent results then you needed consistently performing players, and this stemmed from attitude, approach, respect for your fellow team mates etc etc. Pretty basic stuff you may think but think about it, it epitomised some of the things that were wrong with the team and the club that he took over.

 

He got off on the wrong foot completely, when he said that he didn't like MacDonald advertising Tartan bitter on placards in the city, because he thought it was wrong for a professional athlete to present such an image and he should be seen to concentrate on his health, fitness and behave as such.  Of course he was quite right, but it was new thing, a new idea, and people didn't like it because MacDonald was the great untouchable. This brought on his comments about wanting a team and not one player held up as being bigger and better than all the others.

 

All bollocks. He had a problem winning over fans from that point, and became misrepresented. He was winning the fans over in the end, when we were 2nd in the table in the November and looking like genuine contenders for the highest league position for many many years. But it came too late, he buggered off to Everton quite simply because Newcastle were a shitty club with a board that wouldn't back him even with the money he got for offloading MacDonald, and Everton were and acted like the big club they were at the time.

 

I've posted on this before, I'll look for it if its on this server.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks NE5, I feel educated, as I said I was a little too young for it all, but I do recall the contempt Lee was held in despite the results on the field, which obviously now makes no sense.

 

I agree at the time we were definately a Mickey Mouse club compared to Everton. Talking of Everton was he much of a success there ? I seem to recall he wasn't but may be wrong.