Jonas Gutierrez

[quayside]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

What do you expect me to say?

 

Oh well argued, my mind is suddenly changed. There is no player out there that we can get that is better than Jonas. He's suddenly good. Yey, close the thread...

 

Well argued.......

 

Look at the posts leading up to this. The point was not how good he is - it is that we have greater problems and right now we will not replace him with someone better.

[Jayson]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player s**** because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can f*** off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

But its a pointless position to start from.

If we're judging them in comparison to all the other players we know, then theyre all shit.

 

If we're judging them in comparison to eachother & the current standard of footballer we are able to sign. Jonas if one of our most useful players.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

Lovenkrands gave it to him on a plate.  He had enough time to take a touch and get it on his right, or hit it straight away with his left.

 

fuck me.

[JH]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player s**** because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can f*** off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

But its a pointless position to start from.

If we're judging them in comparison to all the other players we know, then theyre all s***.

 

If we're judging them in comparison to eachother & the current standard of footballer we are able to sign. Jonas if one of our most useful players.

 

How can a player that always loses the ball be one of our most useful players? I reckon we could get a more useful player for the left tbh. (cue "AYEE WHY NOT GO FOR LENNON!!!!!1111")

[TRon]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player shite because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can fuck off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

If you are an NUST member and this is your level of thinking I am seriously worried.

[JH]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player s**** because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can f*** off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

If you are an NUST member and this is your level of thinking I am seriously worried.

 

Aye, because the "we can't get any better so it's good" thinking is much better

[David Icke - Son of God]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player s**** because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can f*** off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

But its a pointless position to start from.

If we're judging them in comparison to all the other players we know, then theyre all shit.

 

If we're judging them in comparison to eachother & the current standard of footballer we are able to sign. Jonas if one of our most useful players.

 

Jonas is shit. Forget about comparisons with other players, potential signings etc. and just look at the facts.

 

He's a midfielder who can't cross, pass or shoot with any degree of competency which are pretty key areas for someone in his position. However, he has got pace and on the counter he stretches the defence. Fair enough but any old athlete could do that providing they can kick a football.

 

He wastes more opportunities than he puts away, he gets himself into decent positions only to mistime his kick and land on his arse and on the rare occasions a pass or cross do come off 99 times out of 100 they're too tame, too hard or wayward. He may stretch the defence but only very rarely do goals come from his 'attacking' play.

 

From what I can tell his running at defenders does nothing but get a small minority of the crowd excited who have yet to realise he's toss. As an attacking threat he's non-existant because he almost always ends up beating himself and giving the ball away.

[Jayson]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player s**** because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can f*** off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

But its a pointless position to start from.

If we're judging them in comparison to all the other players we know, then theyre all s***.

 

If we're judging them in comparison to eachother & the current standard of footballer we are able to sign. Jonas if one of our most useful players.

 

How can a player that always loses the ball be one of our most useful players? I reckon we could get a more useful player for the left tbh. (cue "AYEE WHY NOT GO FOR LENNON!!!!!1111")

 

Well he doesnt always lose the ball probably, thats why. He could have set up 3 goals today if our other players had done better. He put Carroll? through first half, crossed a ball in later which nolan put back across goal, Ranger blocked the pass to put Guthrie through 2nd half. Then you're ignoring the corners/throw ins in advanced positions that moves the entire side fowards.

 

Id say you're massively taking for granted Jonas's movement and ability on the ball if you think we'd be able to replace him well.

Its easier to notice the missed chances & ignore everything that happened in the build up.

 

 

[TRon]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

You weren't happy when he tracked back and won the ball in his own half, then ran the length of the pitch to take the ball up the other end?

 

Yes, but he's a winger. What matters is essentially what he does going forward. And you didn't finish your sentence, when he ran into a man or chased the ball into nowhere.

 

In that case you should prefer Lovenkrands as he'd undoubtedly provide more threat in the final third. Is that what you are suggesting?

 

 

 

Not essentially. But if all Jonas is good for is chasing back and winning the ball, what's the point of him being on the pitch as a winger? That's a defensive midfielder's job.

 

You want a defensive midfielder to offer cover to left wingers and right wingers as well as in the centre?

[David Icke - Son of God]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player shite because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can fuck off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

If you are an NUST member and this is your level of thinking I am seriously worried.

 

I'll take that as a complement coming from one of the members of the N-O intelligentsia

[Darth Crooks]

There is almost a protestant/catholic level of polarisation on this. I've never known a player to that as much as jonas.

[JH]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

You weren't happy when he tracked back and won the ball in his own half, then ran the length of the pitch to take the ball up the other end?

 

Yes, but he's a winger. What matters is essentially what he does going forward. And you didn't finish your sentence, when he ran into a man or chased the ball into nowhere.

 

In that case you should prefer Lovenkrands as he'd undoubtedly provide more threat in the final third. Is that what you are suggesting?

 

 

 

Not essentially. But if all Jonas is good for is chasing back and winning the ball, what's the point of him being on the pitch as a winger? That's a defensive midfielder's job.

 

You want a defensive midfielder to offer cover to left wingers and right wingers as well as in the centre?

 

I never said that. I said if all he's good for is that, there's no point to him being there. He has to be good going forward, and he's not.

[David Icke - Son of God]

There is almost a protestant/catholic level of polarisation on this. I've never known a player to that as much as jonas.

 

Scott Parker?

[Jayson]

 

Jonas is s***. Forget about comparisons with other players, potential signings etc. and just look at the facts.

 

He's a midfielder who can't cross, pass or shoot with any degree of competency which are pretty key areas for someone in his position. However, he has got pace and on the counter he stretches the defence. Fair enough but any old athlete could do that providing they can kick a football.

 

He wastes more opportunities than he puts away, he gets himself into decent positions only to mistime his kick and land on his arse and on the rare occasions a pass or cross do come off 99 times out of 100 they're too tame, too hard or wayward. He may stretch the defence but only very rarely do goals come from his 'attacking' play.

 

From what I can tell his running at defenders does nothing but get a small minority of the crowd excited who have yet to realise he's toss. As an attacking threat he's non-existant because he almost always ends up beating himself and giving the ball away.

 

Thats why we're always seeing players in this divison run the length of the pitch with the ball. That happens constantly doesnt it, no skill involved atall ofcourse. Not like you're taking his strengths for granted whatsoever.

 

Ofcourse goals come from his attacking play, it doesnt necessarily happen directly always. Indirectly, ofcourse his runs end up with an attacking move. If he wasnt there, we'd likely be camped far more in our own half defending and nowhere near the oppositions area for about 30% more of the game.

[JH]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player s**** because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can f*** off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

But its a pointless position to start from.

If we're judging them in comparison to all the other players we know, then theyre all s***.

 

If we're judging them in comparison to eachother & the current standard of footballer we are able to sign. Jonas if one of our most useful players.

 

How can a player that always loses the ball be one of our most useful players? I reckon we could get a more useful player for the left tbh. (cue "AYEE WHY NOT GO FOR LENNON!!!!!1111")

 

Well he doesnt always lose the ball probably, thats why. He could have set up 3 goals today if our other players had done better. He put Carroll? through first half, crossed a ball in later which nolan put back across goal, Ranger blocked the pass to put Guthrie through 2nd half. Then you're ignoring the corners/throw ins in advanced positions that moves the entire side fowards.

 

Id say you're massively taking for granted Jonas's movement and ability on the ball if you think we'd be able to replace him well.

Its easier to notice the missed chances & ignore everything that happened in the build up.

 

 

 

And you're ignoring the 12 dozen times (I wish I was exagerating) he's taken on men since he got here and lost the ball when could have so easily have passed the ball.

 

And you're ignoring his total lack of finishing in the final third. And you're ignoring some of his overshot, pathetic crossing.

 

He's like that kid in GOAL, I find myself screaming "PASS!" over and over whenever he's got the ball. He just doesn't know when enough is enough and he should give it to someone else. It's too selfish at times, I don't care if once in a blue moon it pays off.

[JH]

I'd love to know how many of his moves have actually paid off. I bet he's got a hell of a lower success rate than R.Taylor, Guthrie and Enrique.

[TRon]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player shite because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can fuck off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

If you are an NUST member and this is your level of thinking I am seriously worried.

 

I'll take that as a complement coming from one of the members of the N-O intelligentsia

 

Well the members of the NUST intelligentsia could be heard loud and clear with their "You fat Cockney bastard get out of our club" renditon nationwide. All I will say is just do it. Provide answers instead of complaints.

[David Icke - Son of God]

 

Jonas is s***. Forget about comparisons with other players, potential signings etc. and just look at the facts.

 

He's a midfielder who can't cross, pass or shoot with any degree of competency which are pretty key areas for someone in his position. However, he has got pace and on the counter he stretches the defence. Fair enough but any old athlete could do that providing they can kick a football.

 

He wastes more opportunities than he puts away, he gets himself into decent positions only to mistime his kick and land on his arse and on the rare occasions a pass or cross do come off 99 times out of 100 they're too tame, too hard or wayward. He may stretch the defence but only very rarely do goals come from his 'attacking' play.

 

From what I can tell his running at defenders does nothing but get a small minority of the crowd excited who have yet to realise he's toss. As an attacking threat he's non-existant because he almost always ends up beating himself and giving the ball away.

 

Thats why we're always seeing players in this divison run the length of the pitch with the ball. That happens constantly doesnt it, no skill involved atall ofcourse. Not like you're taking his strengths for granted whatsoever.

 

Ofcourse goals come from his attacking play, it doesnt necessarily happen directly always. Indirectly, ofcourse his runs end up with an attacking move. If he wasnt there, we'd likely be camped far more in our own half defending and nowhere near the oppositions area for about 30% more of the game.

 

If that's the criteria we're using then Steve Harper is our most creative player because somewhere down the line he's thrown it, hoofed it or punched it.

 

Jonas is an athlete and nothing more - runs all day but little or no skill. Similar to Boumsong in that respect.

[JH]

"Jonas is an athlete and nothing more - runs all day but little or no skill."

 

[David Icke - Son of God]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player shite because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can fuck off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

If you are an NUST member and this is your level of thinking I am seriously worried.

 

I'll take that as a complement coming from one of the members of the N-O intelligentsia

 

Well the members of the NUST intelligentsia could be heard loud and clear with their "You fat Cockney bastard get out of our club" renditon nationwide. All I will say is just do it. Provide answers instead of complaints.

 

It's not my job to provide answers. I will however point out that a certain player is fucking shite when it's obvious he is.

[Jayson]

And you're ignoring the 12 dozen times (I wish I was exagerating) he's taken on men since he got here and lost the ball when could have so easily have passed the ball.

 

And you're ignoring his total lack of finishing in the final third. And you're ignoring some of his overshot, pathetic crossing.

 

He's like that kid in GOAL, I find myself screaming "PASS!" over and over whenever he's got the ball. He just doesn't know when enough is enough and he should give it to someone else. It's too selfish at times, I don't care if once in a blue moon it pays off.

 

Except im not ignoring it atall.

Im just not focusing my entire viewpoint on his annoying flaws and ignoring all the strengths he used to get into those advanced positions in the first place.

 

Its a simple argument as i say. Id prefer a player who gets into the positions to miss in the first place, than one who doesnt.

 

You want a player who passes, but your basing your ideas on the assumption that theyd end up in the same positions Jonas finds himself in. Which is the big shortsighted issue. Taking for granted his strengths so you can focus on the cocks ups as i keep saying.

[TRon]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player shite because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can fuck off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

If you are an NUST member and this is your level of thinking I am seriously worried.

 

I'll take that as a complement coming from one of the members of the N-O intelligentsia

 

Well the members of the NUST intelligentsia could be heard loud and clear with their "You fat Cockney bastard get out of our club" renditon nationwide. All I will say is just do it. Provide answers instead of complaints.

 

It's not my job to provide answers. I will however point out that a certain player is fucking shite when it's obvious he is.

 

Exactly my point. Unconstructive criticism is fairly useless beyond a certain point.

[Jayson]

If that's the criteria we're using then Steve Harper is our most creative player because somewhere down the line he's thrown it, hoofed it or punched it.

 

Jonas is an athlete and nothing more - runs all day but little or no skill. Similar to Boumsong in that respect.

 

Ive no idea what you're waffling about atall really, or how you've come to that conclusion.

 

Jonas relieves pressure on his own, by bursting out of our half continually & going past several of their players. Or he makes runs for our other players to put long passes fowards through to him, to once again give us possession deeper in their half and relieve the rest of our team.

 

We've already seen what happens when he isnt there, thats whats so ridiculous about this whole argument. We boot it long, we lose the ball because we booted it long & then we get put under pressure again. This is repeated endlessly. Then people like you moan about us not "getting the ball down". Only for the one player who does get the ball down and run with it, to be the next main player you end up moaning about because he cant single handedly sprint past everyone AND finish or setup someone else instantly. I find it laughable really.

[David Icke - Son of God]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player shite because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can fuck off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

If you are an NUST member and this is your level of thinking I am seriously worried.

 

I'll take that as a complement coming from one of the members of the N-O intelligentsia

 

Well the members of the NUST intelligentsia could be heard loud and clear with their "You fat Cockney bastard get out of our club" renditon nationwide. All I will say is just do it. Provide answers instead of complaints.

 

It's not my job to provide answers. I will however point out that a certain player is fucking shite when it's obvious he is.

 

Exactly my point. Unconstructive criticism is fairly useless beyond a certain point.

 

I'm not the one going on the training ground and trying to teach this lad how to wrap his club foot around a fucking football ergo my criticism doesn't need to be constructive, just honest.

 

This is just a two-bit football messageboard and at the end of the day what I post on here is always going to be useless. It's just another string of words floating off into the dark bowels of the interweb, all of which will be forgotten in a few weeks time. I'm not writing this to be of use to anyone, i'm writing all this because I clearly like banging my head against a brick wall.

[tmonkey]

Honestly though, his final ball wasn't *that* awful when he played in Spain. I think there's a lot of confidence issues going on for him.

 

It's a common theme found at NUFC for the past decade. Players just don't improve with us unless they're youngsters gaining experience. The only time experienced players on the whole have improved in the past decade to my recollection is when we've had Sir Bobby or Keegan as manager. Under all the other managers we've had in between, players have just gone backwards for the most part, or never improved.

 

It can't be a coincidence that players en masse have improved under good managers, whilst in most cases players have failed to improve under mediocre ones. Most of us on here will have seen the impact Keegan had on Allardyce's sorry bunch of misfits. This isn't intended to be a Keegan wankathon, but it needs to be remember how the likes of Butt, Barton, Geremi, Owen, Viduka, etc etc, all looked considerably better (both individually and as a unit) under someone capable of motivating them as well as getting the team as a whole to play in a more organised and informed manner.

 

Jonas looks like a confidence player. Maybe a good manager would ship him out at the first opportunity, but remembering the Jonas that first arrived here, showing excellent energy and drive against teams like ManU and Arsenal, I'm inclined to believe that he'd be one of the players a good manager would look to utilise. Raise his confidence levels and self belief, organise the team and provide more movement within it, and we'd probably see a much better player in Jonas, even if the limitations still remain.