the line that wasn't drawn....

[mrmojorisin75]

Lots of posts recently have been tracing timelines back and suggesting where things went wrong to get us to this state, and what its gonna take to put us right.  For what it's worth I'd trace it back to the following:

 

(1) Whatever went before it we have to acknowledge Robson had more or less sorted out the Dalglish/Gullitt mess and he was sacked.  Souness was brought in (an obvious and costly error) to sort out some problems in the dressing room primarily.  This was huge mistake number one.

 

(2) Souness was allowed to persue a transfer policy totally at odds to the one we'd persued for the 4-5 years prior to his arrival - namely instead of signing young, hungry players (exception Parker, maybe Emre) for reasonable fees he bought big "established" players like Owen and Boumsong.  Worked out well.  Huge mistake 2.

 

(3) Roeder, unfortunately, has spent what little money he had on the same types of buys as Souness did.  Basically he looked at Football Manager and picked some good players instead of spending the summer looking at young players/players in lower divisions etc....  Ultimately he went for the easy option, the mythical "off the peg, ready made" player rather than do the leg work or get someome to do it for him.  Is it any coincidence that Sibierski is the best of his "buys" so far?  I don't think so.

 

(4) What this leads me to is my conclusion that, I'm afraid, we're in deep shit.  We all know, at the back of our minds, that the club haven't put the slightest bit of effort into scouting people between the 2 transfer windows.  Thus when it opens we'll be back where we were in August trying to out-psyche teams to sell their best players for peanuts when they don't want to.  And we all know it's gonna be the usual suspects (Viduka, Bridge etc...)and we'll pay over the odds for them or hand them huge contracts a la Duff.

 

Shepherd was right when he said that the fans didn't complain about Gullit or Dalglish - post-Keegan was always gonna be painful let's face it.  Where crime has REALLY taken place is letting everything Robson rebuild (lest we forget HE signed and/or groomed N'Zogbia, Taylor, Ramage, Pattison, Ameobi, Milner etc...) fall apart and persue a "strategy" that was always unattainable for a club like us.

 

Lets imagine we excuse Roeder for the summer (Martins/Duff are admittedly decent or could be) he CAN NOT be excused for failing to have unearthed at 2-3 younger less-expensive buys during the January window to add to a loanee or 2, thus ensuring we have a squad that can cope.  What worries me is his talk about only signing players ready for the first team - ominously reminiscent of Souness & his "proper players" tripe.

 

If Roeder can only focus his attention on the immediate then he ain't the man for the job, plain and simple.  And following that criteria the last 10 years should see the back of Shepherd as well.

 

(p.s. I'm no Shepherd apologist by the way, I loathe the guy and the day he leaves I'll be dancing down Northumberland Street).

[jong24]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you? 

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, always will but he should have been “moved upstairs” a full season at least before FFS sacked him. He was too old and had lost the plot tbh. You mention his good signings but what about his not so good signings, Carl Cort, Hugo Viana, Darren Ambrose, off the top of my head. Add that to the far too early sale of Gary Speed and the sale of Nobby for a paltry £1.5M to Villa. I would even struggle to give him all the credit for the “grooming” of Taylor, Ramage, Pattison & Ameobi.

 

No, Bobby did us proud, but he left well after his sell by date. The fact that he’s the only decent manager we’ve had since Keegan, shouldn’t blind us to his failings.

 

[Kitman]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you? 

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, always will but he should have been “moved upstairs” a full season at least before FFS sacked him. He was too old and had lost the plot tbh. You mention his good signings but what about his not so good signings, Carl Cort, Hugo Viana, Darren Ambrose, off the top of my head. Add that to the far too early sale of Gary Speed and the sale of Nobby for a paltry £1.5M to Villa. I would even struggle to give him all the credit for the “grooming” of Taylor, Ramage, Pattison & Ameobi.

 

No, Bobby did us proud, but he left well after his sell by date. The fact that he’s the only decent manager we’ve had since Keegan, shouldn’t blind us to his failings.

 

 

tbf Sir Bobby claimed in his autobiography that Shepherd sold Gary Speed out from under him without his knowledge.  Doesn't detract from your point about patchy transfer dealings though.

[Kitman]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you? 

 

The '75' in his username could be his age  blink.gif  Hmmmm.......

[Syrette]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you? 

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, always will but he should have been “moved upstairs” a full season at least before FFS sacked him. He was too old and had lost the plot tbh. You mention his good signings but what about his not so good signings, Carl Cort, Hugo Viana, Darren Ambrose, off the top of my head. Add that to the far too early sale of Gary Speed and the sale of Nobby for a paltry £1.5M to Villa. I would even struggle to give him all the credit for the “grooming” of Taylor, Ramage, Pattison & Ameobi.

 

No, Bobby did us proud, but he left well after his sell by date. The fact that he’s the only decent manager we’ve had since Keegan, shouldn’t blind us to his failings.

 

 

To be fair, Cort, Ambrose and especially Viana came to us with a huge amount of potential and given more time and less bad luck with injuries might have done better than they did. The Solano sale wasn't his best move ever but I understand his reasoning and Speed was sold behind his back.

 

I don't care if he was "past it", his "past it" stage was still getting us into Europe easily enough. I think I'd rather have a past it Sir Bobby than a Glenn Roeder or a Graeme Souness at their respective peaks.

[Kitman]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you? 

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, always will but he should have been “moved upstairs” a full season at least before FFS sacked him. He was too old and had lost the plot tbh. You mention his good signings but what about his not so good signings, Carl Cort, Hugo Viana, Darren Ambrose, off the top of my head. Add that to the far too early sale of Gary Speed and the sale of Nobby for a paltry £1.5M to Villa. I would even struggle to give him all the credit for the “grooming” of Taylor, Ramage, Pattison & Ameobi.

 

No, Bobby did us proud, but he left well after his sell by date. The fact that he’s the only decent manager we’ve had since Keegan, shouldn’t blind us to his failings.

 

 

To be fair, Cort, Ambrose and especially Viana came to us with a huge amount of potential and given more time and less bad luck with injuries might have done better than they did. The Solano sale wasn't his best move ever but I understand his reasoning and Speed was sold behind his back.

 

I don't care if he was "past it", his "past it" stage was still getting us into Europe easily enough. I think I'd rather have a past it Sir Bobby than a Glenn Roeder or a Graeme Souness at their respective peaks.

 

I wonder if there is any truth in the malicious rumour that Sir Bobby actually meant to sign Carlton Cole instead of Carl Cort?  bluebiggrin.gif

[mrmojorisin75]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, always will but he should have been “moved upstairs” a full season at least before FFS sacked him. He was too old and had lost the plot tbh. You mention his good signings but what about his not so good signings, Carl Cort, Hugo Viana, Darren Ambrose, off the top of my head. Add that to the far too early sale of Gary Speed and the sale of Nobby for a paltry £1.5M to Villa. I would even struggle to give him all the credit for the “grooming” of Taylor, Ramage, Pattison & Ameobi.

 

No, Bobby did us proud, but he left well after his sell by date. The fact that he’s the only decent manager we’ve had since Keegan, shouldn’t blind us to his failings.

 

 

Agreed.  He should have been phased upstairs rather than knee-jerk sacked, as I said in the post mistake number 1. 

 

But any manager you care to look at will have holes in his transfer dealings - Ferguson & Wenger have both made total balls ups in the past to go with their successes.

 

The point I was making was about strategy, that Robson seemed to have an idea about where he was going and what he was doing; signing players at the right age for the right money instead of at any age for any money, which it's been since he left.  We found Jenas by watching Notts Forest on scouting missions - how many have we found since Bobby left?

 

As for Taylor, Ramage, N'Zogbia etc... they were all either signed by him, came through the youth/reserves when he was in charge or he gave them their debuts....what more do you want to credit him with?  Taylor was full of potential when he broke through, after a couple of seasons in the first team with Souness and Roeder his confidence looks shot and he's forgotten the basics.... maybe we should credit somebody with that?

[jong24]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, always will but he should have been “moved upstairs” a full season at least before FFS sacked him. He was too old and had lost the plot tbh. You mention his good signings but what about his not so good signings, Carl Cort, Hugo Viana, Darren Ambrose, off the top of my head. Add that to the far too early sale of Gary Speed and the sale of Nobby for a paltry £1.5M to Villa. I would even struggle to give him all the credit for the “grooming” of Taylor, Ramage, Pattison & Ameobi.

 

No, Bobby did us proud, but he left well after his sell by date. The fact that he’s the only decent manager we’ve had since Keegan, shouldn’t blind us to his failings.

 

 

Agreed. He should have been phased upstairs rather than knee-jerk sacked, as I said in the post mistake number 1.

 

But any manager you care to look at will have holes in his transfer dealings - Ferguson & Wenger have both made total balls ups in the past to go with their successes.

 

The point I was making was about strategy, that Robson seemed to have an idea about where he was going and what he was doing; signing players at the right age for the right money instead of at any age for any money, which it's been since he left. We found Jenas by watching Notts Forest on scouting missions - how many have we found since Bobby left?

 

As for Taylor, Ramage, N'Zogbia etc... they were all either signed by him, came through the youth/reserves when he was in charge or he gave them their debuts....what more do you want to credit him with? Taylor was full of potential when he broke through, after a couple of seasons in the first team with Souness and Roeder his confidence looks shot and he's forgotten the basics.... maybe we should credit somebody with that?

 

Okay, I agree with most of your points but I have to say Bobby was left in the job too long by FFS. His replacement was a joke, really, I remember I nearly crashed the bloody car when it was announced. He had to go though, I felt at the time we had to move on. (That's move on, not down)

My point about Ramage, Taylor and co was that they would have probably came through anyway, although I know you can never be sure about that.

This is a pointless conversation anyway, if however it does have a point, a small one, it would be to say that, apart from the blip that was Bobby Robson, this club has gone steadily downhill since the day Keegan walked away, and that, my friend is a sad, sad, state of affairs.

 

[jong24]

 

I wonder if there is any truth in the malicious rumour that Sir Bobby actually meant to sign Carlton Cole instead of Carl Cort? bluebiggrin.gif

 

Actually, I read somewhere that it was Jason Euell, even more bizzare!

[mrmojorisin75]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, always will but he should have been “moved upstairs” a full season at least before FFS sacked him. He was too old and had lost the plot tbh. You mention his good signings but what about his not so good signings, Carl Cort, Hugo Viana, Darren Ambrose, off the top of my head. Add that to the far too early sale of Gary Speed and the sale of Nobby for a paltry £1.5M to Villa. I would even struggle to give him all the credit for the “grooming” of Taylor, Ramage, Pattison & Ameobi.

 

No, Bobby did us proud, but he left well after his sell by date. The fact that he’s the only decent manager we’ve had since Keegan, shouldn’t blind us to his failings.

 

 

Agreed. He should have been phased upstairs rather than knee-jerk sacked, as I said in the post mistake number 1.

 

But any manager you care to look at will have holes in his transfer dealings - Ferguson & Wenger have both made total balls ups in the past to go with their successes.

 

The point I was making was about strategy, that Robson seemed to have an idea about where he was going and what he was doing; signing players at the right age for the right money instead of at any age for any money, which it's been since he left. We found Jenas by watching Notts Forest on scouting missions - how many have we found since Bobby left?

 

As for Taylor, Ramage, N'Zogbia etc... they were all either signed by him, came through the youth/reserves when he was in charge or he gave them their debuts....what more do you want to credit him with? Taylor was full of potential when he broke through, after a couple of seasons in the first team with Souness and Roeder his confidence looks shot and he's forgotten the basics.... maybe we should credit somebody with that?

 

Okay, I agree with most of your points but I have to say Bobby was left in the job too long by FFS. His replacement was a joke, really, I remember I nearly crashed the bloody car when it was announced. He had to go though, I felt at the time we had to move on. (That's move on, not down)

My point about Ramage, Taylor and co was that they would have probably came through anyway, although I know you can never be sure about that.

This is a pointless conversation anyway, if however it does have a point, a small one, it would be to say that, apart from the blip that was Bobby Robson, this club has gone steadily downhill since the day Keegan walked away, and that, my friend is a sad, sad, state of affairs.

 

 

That's actually a very pertinent point, viewing Robson as a blip - if the club had had any kind of progressive management at the top we'd have planned on the back of what Robson was doing.  Says it all.

 

Howeverm if I'm guilty of looking through rose-tints at Uncle Bobby then I feel the point must be made that many people are seriously guilty of romanticising Keegans era.  Great football, great team, don't me wrong I loved it all. 

But lest we forget this was the guy who abolished the reserves, showed no signs of forward planning other than who he was going to sign next, and after he left the club proved his utter inability to cope with the changing face of modern football.

 

It's easy to point to when Keegan walked and the downhill slide, as I said in the original post, and that's what the Sheffield game seems to have provoked in most people but to me that's not the key, they key was when we sacked Robson without securing an adequate/competent/similarly-minded replacement....

[Kitman]

Much of what you say is fair but you’re not Bobby Robson’s brother are you?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, always will but he should have been “moved upstairs” a full season at least before FFS sacked him. He was too old and had lost the plot tbh. You mention his good signings but what about his not so good signings, Carl Cort, Hugo Viana, Darren Ambrose, off the top of my head. Add that to the far too early sale of Gary Speed and the sale of Nobby for a paltry £1.5M to Villa. I would even struggle to give him all the credit for the “grooming” of Taylor, Ramage, Pattison & Ameobi.

 

No, Bobby did us proud, but he left well after his sell by date. The fact that he’s the only decent manager we’ve had since Keegan, shouldn’t blind us to his failings.

 

 

Agreed. He should have been phased upstairs rather than knee-jerk sacked, as I said in the post mistake number 1.

 

But any manager you care to look at will have holes in his transfer dealings - Ferguson & Wenger have both made total balls ups in the past to go with their successes.

 

The point I was making was about strategy, that Robson seemed to have an idea about where he was going and what he was doing; signing players at the right age for the right money instead of at any age for any money, which it's been since he left. We found Jenas by watching Notts Forest on scouting missions - how many have we found since Bobby left?

 

As for Taylor, Ramage, N'Zogbia etc... they were all either signed by him, came through the youth/reserves when he was in charge or he gave them their debuts....what more do you want to credit him with? Taylor was full of potential when he broke through, after a couple of seasons in the first team with Souness and Roeder his confidence looks shot and he's forgotten the basics.... maybe we should credit somebody with that?

 

Okay, I agree with most of your points but I have to say Bobby was left in the job too long by FFS. His replacement was a joke, really, I remember I nearly crashed the bloody car when it was announced. He had to go though, I felt at the time we had to move on. (That's move on, not down)

My point about Ramage, Taylor and co was that they would have probably came through anyway, although I know you can never be sure about that.

This is a pointless conversation anyway, if however it does have a point, a small one, it would be to say that, apart from the blip that was Bobby Robson, this club has gone steadily downhill since the day Keegan walked away, and that, my friend is a sad, sad, state of affairs.

 

 

That's actually a very pertinent point, viewing Robson as a blip - if the club had had any kind of progressive management at the top we'd have planned on the back of what Robson was doing.  Says it all.

 

Howeverm if I'm guilty of looking through rose-tints at Uncle Bobby then I feel the point must be made that many people are seriously guilty of romanticising Keegans era.  Great football, great team, don't me wrong I loved it all. 

But lest we forget this was the guy who abolished the reserves, showed no signs of forward planning other than who he was going to sign next, and after he left the club proved his utter inability to cope with the changing face of modern football.

 

It's easy to point to when Keegan walked and the downhill slide, as I said in the original post, and that's what the Sheffield game seems to have provoked in most people but to me that's not the key, they key was when we sacked Robson without securing an adequate/competent/similarly-minded replacement....

 

My general impression is that our Board's idea of planning is looking at a lunch menu