Sadly...

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

career league goals per appearance including subs

 

Martins    Crouch    Owen

0.33      0.29        0.52

 

 

Fairly useless post, Vic, all things considered. Not just concerning Crouch, either.

 

what fucking things?

 

goals per game when comparing strikers? aye fucking useless...

 

Ooooo Vic could crush a grape.

 

I could smash a robot right now tbh

[Rich]

career league goals per appearance including subs

 

Martins    Crouch    Owen

0.33      0.29        0.52

 

 

Fairly useless post, Vic, all things considered. Not just concerning Crouch, either.

 

what fucking things?

 

goals per game when comparing strikers? aye fucking useless...

 

It's such a flawed method of argument, man. I thought you were more sensible than that.

 

"I don't want Crouch here, so I'll post the goal ratios of him, Martins and Owen" - never mind how many times they were substitute, or how many games they've actually played, or for what team in what competition, or how many goals they've created, or how well they've played aside from scoring... it's such a superficial way of judging a player it's unreal. Exactly the type of thing you chastise the majority of other posters on here for.

 

Crouch has played for some bloody shite teams and in lower divisions, while Martins/Owen have been at the top of the footballing world from almost the word go in their professional careers, it's a dud comparison and it always has been. It's the sort of mediocre post on here that you're usually very much against.

 

I could post goal records of a dozen strikers like that and use it as a claim that we should sign them, with nothing else along with it and if I did that, or someone else did that, you'd be the first one to call it "shite" if it didn't go along with your personal viewpoint.

 

There was no comment on it, nothing, it was just utter garbage man. Shall I just go and get their total appearances from somewhere and use that to say whether they are injury prone or not and then just stick it up here without any backstory or any comment?

[Parky]

career league goals per appearance including subs

 

Martins    Crouch     Owen

0.33       0.29        0.52

 

 

Fairly useless post, Vic, all things considered. Not just concerning Crouch, either.

 

what fucking things?

 

goals per game when comparing strikers? aye fucking useless...

 

It's such a flawed method of argument, man. I thought you were more sensible than that.

 

"I don't want Crouch here, so I'll post the goal ratios of him, Martins and Owen" - never mind how many times they were substitute, or how many games they've actually played, or for what team in what competition, or how many goals they've created, or how well they've played aside from scoring... it's such a superficial way of judging a player it's unreal. Exactly the type of thing you chastise the majority of other posters on here for.

 

Crouch has played for some bloody shite teams and in lower divisions, while Martins/Owen have been at the top of the footballing world from almost the word go in their professional careers, it's a dud comparison and it always has been. It's the sort of mediocre post on here that you're usually very much against.

 

I could post goal records of a dozen strikers like that and use it as a claim that we should sign them, with nothing else along with it and if I did that, or someone else did that, you'd be the first one to call it "shite" if it didn't go along with your personal viewpoint.

 

There was no comment on it, nothing, it was just utter garbage man. Shall I just go and get their total appearances from somewhere and use that to say whether they are injury prone or not and then just stick it up here without any backstory or any comment?

 

 

....according to 'my' stats Luque is the 99th most dangerous striker/forward in Europe.

[Rich]

Not to mention it's only league goals included, probably because Vic couldn't be arsed to look anywhere other than Wikipedia.

[Parky]

Whichever way you look at it Owen has kept up the gold standard of 1 in 2 for most of his career if not all. That is the only real referance for a tier one striker. I do also think he could play with Crouch, but that will also lose us movement and guile upfront, qualities Crouch doesn't have and someone like Anelka or Villa does have.

[Rich]

Whichever way you look at it Owen has kept up the gold standard of 1 in 2 for most of his career if not all. That is the only real referance for a tier one striker. I do also think he could play with Crouch, but that will also lose us movement and guile upfront, qualities Crouch doesn't have and someone like Anelka or Villa does have.

 

Completely agree. I agree with Vic's sentiment that Crouch probably shouldn't be bought (if that's what he was attempting to show), for the reasons that you state. I would like to see us try something new and with a better striker than Crouch, it's all about movement these days - something that we're sorely lacking and something that buying someone like Crouch probably won't help all that much.

[Parky]

And speaking of the devil...

 

 

http://football.guardian.co.uk/rumourmill/

 

"Roeder won't stop there either: he's wheeling Bramble, Celestine Babayaro and recently confirmed not-racist Emre out on to his front lawn and dumped them in a heap next to a sign reading 'will accept any offers'. He might get a bit for Emre too, since Hertha Berlin and Bayern Munich are both interested. Whatever coppers Roeder does scrape together from those sales, he will take straight to Rafa Benítez to see if they add up to Peter Crouch's asking price."

[Guest alex]

The Guardian's sports coverage is still shite then I see. Oliver could almost have written that. I realise it's meant to be funny btw. 

[Parky]

The Guardian's sports coverage is still shite then I see. Oliver could almost have written that. I realise it's meant to be funny btw. 

 

 

You fancy a bit of Crouchie Halex or what?

[Guest alex]

The Guardian's sports coverage is still shite then I see. Oliver could almost have written that. I realise it's meant to be funny btw. 

 

 

You fancy a bit of Crouchie Halex or what?

Dunno really. I think he's a canny player. Not great but canny. He's not particularly athletic though, in terms of his aerial ability or his movement and he has no pace either. Not sure we would play to his strengths either - humping the ball up to him most likely. He'd cost a lot too. I think he has a better attitude than the likes of Viduka and Anelka (who would be better bets in other respects for me).

[Parky]

The Guardian's sports coverage is still shite then I see. Oliver could almost have written that. I realise it's meant to be funny btw. 

 

 

You fancy a bit of Crouchie Halex or what?

Dunno really. I think he's a canny player. Not great but canny. He's not particularly athletic though, in terms of his aerial ability or his movement and he has no pace either. Not sure we would play to his strengths either - humping the ball up to him most likely. He'd cost a lot too. I think he has a better attitude than the likes of Viduka and Anelka (who would be better bets in other respects for me).

 

Going on from your thoughts...His lack of pace and  movement are the key minuses.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

career league goals per appearance including subs

 

Martins    Crouch    Owen

0.33      0.29        0.52

 

 

Fairly useless post, Vic, all things considered. Not just concerning Crouch, either.

 

what fucking things?

 

goals per game when comparing strikers? aye fucking useless...

 

It's such a flawed method of argument, man. I thought you were more sensible than that.

 

"I don't want Crouch here, so I'll post the goal ratios of him, Martins and Owen" - never mind how many times they were substitute, or how many games they've actually played, or for what team in what competition, or how many goals they've created, or how well they've played aside from scoring... it's such a superficial way of judging a player it's unreal. Exactly the type of thing you chastise the majority of other posters on here for.

 

Crouch has played for some bloody shite teams and in lower divisions, while Martins/Owen have been at the top of the footballing world from almost the word go in their professional careers, it's a dud comparison and it always has been. It's the sort of mediocre post on here that you're usually very much against.

 

I could post goal records of a dozen strikers like that and use it as a claim that we should sign them, with nothing else along with it and if I did that, or someone else did that, you'd be the first one to call it "shite" if it didn't go along with your personal viewpoint.

 

There was no comment on it, nothing, it was just utter garbage man. Shall I just go and get their total appearances from somewhere and use that to say whether they are injury prone or not and then just stick it up here without any backstory or any comment?

 

 

I purposely left no comment to see what the donuts would say. I personally think it shows people up who are saying Martins is much better than Crouch

 

as for crouch having been at shit teams, his average for just villa and liverpool is 0.32, so that kind of fucks your argument doesn't it?

 

and I purposely did league goals only as I'm sure everyone with an ounce of sense realises that is the truest account of goals ratio, as it does not depend on cup runs and as you say, putting 5 past blackpool

 

 

 

[Rich]

Not really, like, on the "fucking my argument" side of things. As you've addressed one point of about six I made alongside it. For that particular point, then definitely a bit, but not to the point of it it being totally "fucked". It's still an unfair way to judge players because Owen has played at a higher level than both for a much longer amount of time and Martins played for Inter from being a "bairn", almost.

 

It's more impressive to sustain goalscoring for a longer spell, obviously.

 

Re: your "cup run" point - no mention of the fact that Martins has scored a fair few goals in the Champions League, as has Owen, etc. So it's not all about playing teams like "Blackpool", at all. That's why I said it works both ways, not just against Crouch/against Martins, etc. You used the league goals because you used Wikipedia, is my guess.

 

Also, I haven't seen anyone in this particular thread (or elsewhere) specifically say Martins is "much better than Crouch", either. Who, exactly, are you showing up?

 

Poor attempt at back-tracking, like. Must try harder.

 

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

Not really, like, on the "fucking my argument" side of things. As you've addressed one point of about six I made alongside it. For that particular point, then definitely a bit, but not to the point of it it being totally "fucked". It's still an unfair way to judge players because Owen has played at a higher level than both for a much longer amount of time and Martins played for Inter from being a "bairn", almost.

 

It's more impressive to sustain goalscoring for a longer spell, obviously.

 

Re: your "cup run" point - no mention of the fact that Martins has scored a fair few goals in the Champions League, as has Owen, etc. So it's not all about playing teams like "Blackpool", at all. That's why I said it works both ways, not just against Crouch/against Martins, etc. You used the league goals because you used Wikipedia, is my guess.

 

Also, I haven't seen anyone in this particular thread (or elsewhere) specifically say Martins is "much better than Crouch", either. Who, exactly, are you showing up?

 

Poor attempt at back-tracking, like. Must try harder.

 

 

so is Martin's 73 starts and 40 subs for Inter and Newcastle worth more than Crouch's 62 starts and 33 subs for just Premiership teams?

 

you do understand what the word average means don't you?

 

FFS

 

[Lloydie]

Martins is about as good as Crouch, but has much more potential.

 

Thing about Crouch is he practically forces you to build a style of play around him as if you're not playing to his strengths he's not much use. That can work, Keegan built a team around Cole, and thinking of players of similar build Sunderland built one around Quinn and Everton built one around Ferguson, but it's taking a big gamble on one players' form and fitness.

 

Personally I think he'd be overpriced. Martins, Owen, Shola and Dyer is fine as a front four assuming they're all fit. If we were to sign someone I'd be after someone with pace, muscle and finishing ability like Bent now or Hasslebaink a few years back, and the player I'd move on is probably Dyer who just doesn't look right up front to me, but seems to have a problem with playing on the wing.

[Parky]

Martins is about as good as Crouch, but has much more potential.

 

Thing about Crouch is he practically forces you to build a style of play around him as if you're not playing to his strengths he's not much use. That can work, Keegan built a team around Cole, and thinking of players of similar build Sunderland built one around Quinn and Everton built one around Ferguson, but it's taking a big gamble on one players' form and fitness.

 

Personally I think he'd be overpriced. Martins, Owen, Shola and Dyer is fine as a front four assuming they're all fit. If we were to sign someone I'd be after someone with pace, muscle and finishing ability like Bent now or Hasslebaink a few years back, and the player I'd move on is probably Dyer who just doesn't look right up front to me, but seems to have a problem with playing on the wing.

 

Suzao? 

[Rich]

Invicta,

 

If you have a chance, can you answer these please: who are you showing up? Who has said Martins is "much better" than Crouch? Have you been using Wikipedia for your stats? Are we now basing this argument on league goals at the highest level, rather than the numbers you initially posted, then? Were Aston Villa "good" (in comparison to Liverpool, now/Inter with Martins) when Crouch was there, or have I missed something?

 

Furthermore, where did I actually say Martins' goals for Inter outweighed Crouch's in the Premiership? The word "just" wasn't used from my end when talking about the PL, either.

 

Harking back to your second post for a moment, does everyone with an "ounce of sense" not think it's harder to score goals in the Champions League than in the Premiership/Serie A/La Liga? Your point was about someone scoring against Blackpool, or whoever, completely discounting goals that Crouch/Owen/Martins have scored on the biggest stage in European football. Not that sensible, in my book. Goals on the biggest stage are arguably a better measure of how good a striker is/has been, if you're taking that route.

 

Do you now agree that your initial post failed to prove/offer anything worthwhile in regards to the subject at hand? It was my initial point, after all. The way you're skirting around it and making excuses would lead me to believe that you do. It would have been far easier for you to simply admit that when I pulled you up on it, instead of throwing a hissy-fit and stamping your feet. The exasperated use of "FFS" to finish yet another garbage entry is best reserved for people who have actually been talking sense and getting idiocy in reply and not the other way around, surely? blueyes.gif

 

Finally, to answer your question: yes, I do understand what average means and I think "average goals" is an utterly wank way of trying to compare three completely different strikers, without looking at how/where/when they were scored, etc.

 

Are you now going to claim all of this as a "bite" from my end? I'd love that, personally.

[Yorkie]

Definitely like Crouch as a player, but would be - as i've said in every other 'big name' striker thread - it'd be a pointless waste of cash, bringing in a player with an infnalted price, who we don't need.

 

And, like i've said in all the other threads: Viduka - on a free.

[Rich]

Definitely like Crouch as a player, but would be - as i've said in every other 'big name' striker thread - it'd be a pointless waste of cash, bringing in a player with an infnalted price, who we don't need.

 

And, like i've said in all the other threads: Viduka - on a free.

 

As I've said in a few others where you've posted that: I completely agree - certainly while the money needs to go elsewhere. The only way I'd switch from your philosophy was if it came out that Martins/Owen were leaving/got injured again, etc.

[Yorkie]

Cue...

 

Chopra's scored a gazillion goals in the Championship this year. We should never have let him go.