Bravery, passion, spirit & effort - but still LOSERS!

[M4]

Just remembered, it gets worse - Argentina France 98, we did the same thing, although being a man down changed things but they were brittle at the back and had we kept possession better and used the pace of Owen better and the strengths of Shearer instead of shouting them back like Pearce did all game tonight...

 

Traumatic night that was

[toontownman]

thing is though, the only ones playing tonight who i reckon would be good enough to have an international career with england are baines and young.

 

Yet the Dutch, I could see half of them playing for Holland or doing well at a higher level or rather adapting further on in their development. That's why foreign players succeed in different leagues because their minds are tuned to deal with all kinds of different situations and of course, having the technical ability, makes it all that more easier. What was I saying about making the ball do all the work?!

 

BTW I can't see any of them having a very good career for England, not even our own Taylor, despite a few of them having the talent. Carson is probably the one who could get a regular game at that level in a few years time but the rest I'm not so sure, more is the pitty.

 

The fact the press and public dont hype them up and then rip them apart a year later when they arent "European" and "World Player of the Year" helps too.

 

We also have the tendacy of going OTT with they hyping to begin with. Its like at Newcastle we have been waiting so long we are just completey anxious and impatient, and its getting worse.

[Guest graemeh72]

Lets, again, put it into perspective.

 

Semi Final of european u21's some class performance's bright young players on the way!

 

eerrr I'm not saying this to be controversial

 

but we fluked it to the semis

 

Bollocks like.

 

I think we were lucky to get points against Italy and the Czechs....

 

...the Italians should have beaten us.... which would have sent us out

 

IMHO we played to much backs to the wall football to be considered worthy finalists

[Guest Knightrider]

Just remembered, it gets worse - Argentina France 98, we did the same thing, although being a man down changed things but they were brittle at the back and had we kept possession better and used the pace of Owen better and the strengths of Shearer instead of shouting them back like Pearce did all game tonight...

 

Traumatic night that was

 

That game probably best sums up our football, on one hand we can compete, on the other our own deficiencies in other areas spoil it for us and always take over. Get the latter right and combine the two and we'd take some stopping.

[Guest optimistic nit]

thing is though, the only ones playing tonight who i reckon would be good enough to have an international career with england are baines and young.

 

Yet the Dutch, I could see half of them playing for Holland or doing well at a higher level or rather adapting further on in their development. That's why foreign players succeed in different leagues because their minds are tuned to deal with all kinds of different situations and of course, having the technical ability, makes it all that more easier. What was I saying about making the ball do all the work?!

 

BTW I can't see any of them having a very good career for England, not even our own Taylor, despite a few of them having the talent. Carson is probably the one who could get a regular game at that level in a few years time but the rest I'm not so sure, more is the pitty.

 

aye i could definately see some of the dutch youngsters doing well. i think its more our attitude and the way we do things that stops U21's progressing. Rooney never even played for the U21's. The U21 side could be considered the england B for players who are 23 or younger. if your the latest hot topic, then you'll make the senior side, whether you have international experiance or not, look at micah richards.

 

going down the penalty takers list i see plenty who will have a decent pl career, but few who will go futher. how many U21 games did foster play, or hargreaves, or Owen, or gerrard, or lampard, or terry. it was a while back but i don't remember any of them playing more than 5 U21 games. Joe Cole did i think, and robinson as well, but thats it.

either we rush them into the senior squad too soon, or we don't pick them up when their good enough for U21 but not good enough for international football.

[Guest Knightrider]

thing is though, the only ones playing tonight who i reckon would be good enough to have an international career with england are baines and young.

 

Yet the Dutch, I could see half of them playing for Holland or doing well at a higher level or rather adapting further on in their development. That's why foreign players succeed in different leagues because their minds are tuned to deal with all kinds of different situations and of course, having the technical ability, makes it all that more easier. What was I saying about making the ball do all the work?!

 

BTW I can't see any of them having a very good career for England, not even our own Taylor, despite a few of them having the talent. Carson is probably the one who could get a regular game at that level in a few years time but the rest I'm not so sure, more is the pitty.

 

The fact the press and public dont hype them up and then rip them apart a year later when they arent "European" and "World Player of the Year" helps too.

 

We also have the tendacy of going OTT with they hyping to begin with. Its like at Newcastle we have been waiting so long we are just completey anxious and impatient, and its getting worse.

 

Good shout and we do contribute as fans to the culture of our game and that too has an effect. Take our domestic game for example, if Newcastle slow play down at home and start passing it about between ourselves without much action ahead, the crowd become restless and soon demand the players to attack. Doesn't help cultivate those ball playing time on the ball players does it...

 

No wonder we lack ball playing defenders when a) they aren't encouraged to play the ball in their development to start with and b) when they do get in the team, fans want them to get it forward quickly. Now watch a La Liga match for example, play starts from the back and ball retention is very high.

[Wullie]

Lets, again, put it into perspective.

 

Semi Final of european u21's some class performance's bright young players on the way!

 

eerrr I'm not saying this to be controversial

 

but we fluked it to the semis

 

Bollocks like.

 

I think we were lucky to get points against Italy and the Czechs....

 

...the Italians should have beaten us.... which would have sent us out

 

IMHO we played to much backs to the wall football to be considered worthy finalists

 

You say the Italians should have beaten us but if Lita could have hit a barn door, we'd have been 4 up in half an hour which would have left them dead and buried. Yes, they dominated the second half but they were lucky to still be in the game at that point.

 

He should have buried the penalty against the Czechs too.

 

Fluked it? The other teams were just lucky to still be in with a chance going into the final game.

[Guest graemeh72]

Lets, again, put it into perspective.

 

Semi Final of european u21's some class performance's bright young players on the way!

 

eerrr I'm not saying this to be controversial

 

but we fluked it to the semis

 

Bollocks like.

 

I think we were lucky to get points against Italy and the Czechs....

 

...the Italians should have beaten us.... which would have sent us out

 

IMHO we played to much backs to the wall football to be considered worthy finalists

 

You say the Italians should have beaten us but if Lita could have hit a barn door, we'd have been 4 up in half an hour which would have left them dead and buried. Yes, they dominated the second half but they were lucky to still be in the game at that point.

 

He should have buried the penalty against the Czechs too.

 

Fluked it? The other teams were just lucky to still be in with a chance going into the final game.

 

True that we could have been 4-0 against the Italians... but when we made the semis i just had this feeling in the back of my head of "How the fuck have me done that?"

[Guest Knightrider]

Again, like the Argentina match, the Italy match sums up our game. When they played at a high paced tempo playing with aggression and quickness we created at least 4 clear cut chances and had them all over the shop, but when they slowed the game down, we couldn't adapt and sat back, deeper and deeper, inviting them onto us which will always lead to disaster 9 times out of 10 and why it pisses me off to see managers deploy such defeatism type tactics. Stuart Pearce has tons of experience, he was a great player and is probably an intelligent bloke yet he can't see the absurdity in sitting back? We did the same in Alkmaar, as soon as we lined up I knew we were beaten and boy is that frustrating.

[Delima]

The sad thing is if we developed other areas of our game, we'd be almost unbeatable because no team or player outside of England is as honest as our lot.

 

I disagree with this. To be in the national squad, to be in the top echelon of any society anything, one has to be incredibly fiercely competitive. Sure the England Under 21 put up a great fight, but so did Holland U21, Serbia U21 and Italy U21. You can't accuse them of not giving their very honest best.

 

Instead of saying that England have the spirit and only lack the technical side to be invincible, it should be said that unless England improve their technical ability they won't dominate the football world. Spirit is not something you could inculcate easily. Undeniably England have the better fighting culture in general as contrast to other countries. But this will only make difference at lower level football, where technical skills are level and what make the difference is the spirit. In the uppermost echelon of football, everyone is as competitive as the others and what make the difference is the technical skills.

 

Years of good technical training make differences. Kaka, Fabregas, Zidane etc are better than Gerard technically but fighting spirit wise you wouldn't say they are inferior.

 

Having said that, I do not at all think that top English players are technically inferior to players from other countries. The same principal applies. The cream will always float atop. When we have players like Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Rooney, Ferdinand, Scholes, Owen, Terry, Woodgate, Campbell, King, Carragher, Foster, Carson you can't accuse England of lacking top quality technical footballers in the national team.

 

The future of English football is bright. I don't really know the situations for other countries, but as a matter of fact there are quite a few top U21 English players who are absent in the tournament. Micah Richards, Aaron Lennon, Wayne Roney, Stewart Downing, David Bentley, Gabriel Agbonlahor. Without these players England U21 are equal with the full Italians U21 with Rossi, Montolivo and Pazzini. Portugal have Nani, Moutinho, Amelda etc all top Portugese future prospect playing yet they haven't set the world alight.

 

I am very optimistic of the future of English football. Despite the overall general lower technical quality of English football, what they lack here is compensated by their spirit. What England really lack is a manager that works wonder. Italy had Lippi in last world cup. Germany under the inspirational Klinsmann did very well despite not having a squad of outstanding talent (Ballack apart). Greek in 2004. France had a poor manager but they were helped by an trully outstanding generation of footballers consisting of Zidane, Thuram, Viera, Makelele, Henry and Trezeguet. Many many more examples. What we really lack is a wonder coach, not spirit, not technical skills. England gambled on Sven, a good idea. Unfortunately the gamble didn't pay off. Had it paid off, England would have shared the limelight with the French the last decade.