is it really so hard?

[Mick]

 

Like who?

I know Benitez was moaning about a lack of money or something like that.

[Baggio]

"Believed" by who?

 

This summer we're "believed" to have bid for Deco and inquired about Ronaldinho!

 

All depends on what you read in the papers, personally I prefer to believe f*** all until I see something concrete, to my recollection there was f*** all concrete about Davies or Crouch.

 

*Roeder said we'd had bids turned down for players as their clubs didn't want to sell as they still had things to play for.

 

*West Brom said they had rejected a bid for Davies as they wanted him for the promotion push.

 

*Rafa said he didn't want to sell Crouch.

 

They were linked in the papers but I'd say all had more to the story than Deco in the Sunday Sun.

 

We have no idea what these bids were. Anyway with the takeover surely it doesn't matter what money could have been available in January that was money going to be made available by the old owners.

 

If money was made available under the old owners but not under the new one's then we would be worse off after the takeover, correct?

 

This is hypothetical before you point out the window hasn't shut.

 

Quite a few clubs that have been taken over have had a waiting period before money has been spent. Its not unusual. Money in January has no relevance now, everything has changed.

 

Like who?

 

Villa.

 

According to this Lerner didn't get 90% of Villa until the transfer window had closed, something Ashley achieved weeks ago.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/content/200609/s1750822.htm

[Baggio]

 

Like who?

I know Benitez was moaning about a lack of money or something like that.

 

Benitez deals in the Spanish market and when their season closed they moved for Torres, he's had full backing from the Liverpool board.

[Baggio]

Just repeating myself here but this would be the first business deal in history based on an objective of doing nothing.

 

If ohmelads or Baggio think that a Billionaire has bought this club just to leave it as it is, please provide an example of another business deal done like this? From any sector of the business world. Is this called an 'invest and leave it as it is' strategy. Thats a new one for me.

 

He has spent £133m of his money to give the fans what they wanted, taken on around £80m worth of debt and a company making very little profit. Just step back and think about that. Say with the new TV revenue and some frugal operating in the transfer market and taking into account player wage inflation, you'd be looking at what? A profit of £10m a year.

 

Thats less than a 5% return on the outlay and debt. I would have just put the money in the bank in that case, still think some current accounts give you that rate, maybe Ashley doesnt realise this 

 

 

So why don't you enlighten us on what you think he's going to do with the business.

 

I'm working on an article actually. 

 

If it's anything like the usual shite you come out with regarding football I'll give it a miss.

[Mick]

 

Benitez deals in the Spanish market and when their season closed they moved for Torres, he's had full backing from the Liverpool board.

 

A benitez quote from earlier in the year:

 

"They have to reform or die, to spend or fail."

[ChezGiven]

Just repeating myself here but this would be the first business deal in history based on an objective of doing nothing.

 

If ohmelads or Baggio think that a Billionaire has bought this club just to leave it as it is, please provide an example of another business deal done like this? From any sector of the business world. Is this called an 'invest and leave it as it is' strategy. Thats a new one for me.

 

He has spent £133m of his money to give the fans what they wanted, taken on around £80m worth of debt and a company making very little profit. Just step back and think about that. Say with the new TV revenue and some frugal operating in the transfer market and taking into account player wage inflation, you'd be looking at what? A profit of £10m a year.

 

Thats less than a 5% return on the outlay and debt. I would have just put the money in the bank in that case, still think some current accounts give you that rate, maybe Ashley doesnt realise this 

 

 

So why don't you enlighten us on what you think he's going to do with the business.

 

I'm working on an article actually. 

 

If it's anything like the usual shite you come out with regarding football I'll give it a miss.

 

At least i'm not a schizophrenic spazz-tard who doesnt know what he wants.

[Baggio]

Just repeating myself here but this would be the first business deal in history based on an objective of doing nothing.

 

If ohmelads or Baggio think that a Billionaire has bought this club just to leave it as it is, please provide an example of another business deal done like this? From any sector of the business world. Is this called an 'invest and leave it as it is' strategy. Thats a new one for me.

 

He has spent £133m of his money to give the fans what they wanted, taken on around £80m worth of debt and a company making very little profit. Just step back and think about that. Say with the new TV revenue and some frugal operating in the transfer market and taking into account player wage inflation, you'd be looking at what? A profit of £10m a year.

 

Thats less than a 5% return on the outlay and debt. I would have just put the money in the bank in that case, still think some current accounts give you that rate, maybe Ashley doesnt realise this 

 

 

So why don't you enlighten us on what you think he's going to do with the business.

 

I'm working on an article actually. 

 

If it's anything like the usual s**** you come out with regarding football I'll give it a miss.

 

At least i'm not a schizophrenic spazz-tard who doesnt know what he wants.

 

You always get one who has to drag it down to the level of name calling.

[Mick]

 

You always get one who has to drag it down to the level of name calling.

 

To be fair to Chez, he was reacting to being told he usually wrote shite about football.

[ChezGiven]

I was only joking because i presumed he was. 

 

 

[Mick]

I was only joking because i presumed he was. 

 

 

 

You've been watching GM too much. 

[Dokko]

i know we all have talked about this before. but i can't believe that it's so hard to find the right players!

i really do think we have the money (15-25 mil) and sam knows that we are still short of players with the league kicking off in only 20 days!!!!

we need at least another 3 players for our starting XI if we want to compete with the top 6 -8.  our pre season started really good with some decent signings but i'm really frustrated at the moment with nothing going on in newcastle.

with this squad i don't think we can stay in the top 10. do you?

 

 

still no fuckin left back for the first games.  :rant: :rant:

 

I'm with you on this, its getting borderline pathetic considering the hype surrounding Ashley's arrival. Deco? Ronaldinho? No, don't be daft, but 2 quality players for every position is a must if were are to get back into Europe and while other clubs around us cant stop spending we dish out £1.5m, which is 10% of what SA was supposed to have had under FS.

 

Something is up, i'm starting to think we've been lied too.

 

[Guest Knightrider]

I think it's healthy to have doubts about Ashley, the new board and even the new manager, if only to lower expectations and to create a better understanding of the delicate situation we as a club are in.

 

I honestly think what we are experiencing here at the moment (some kind of impasse in the transfer market?) is down to the club we have become and not so much lack of funds, inexperience on Ashley/Mort's behalf or Big Sam being another Roeder in the market.

 

Plus the dynamics have changed. The manager has said himself the days of overspending and buying names on huge wages are over (a previous tactic to lure players), so today we actually have to work bloody hard to get players in and to sell the club, manager's ideas and so on to players. 

 

And going by latest quotes from the manager it appears we've actually made lots of headway in the market but aren't closing in on deals as quickly as we'd like. This to me means we've made bids, bids have been accepted and we've gotten to the stage where we can talk to players, but we're being turned down or the players themselves may be hoping to join another club first or to get a better offer from their current club.

 

In short the transfer market isn't an easy process and we've done extremely well to get in the 4 we have and made progress with as of yet to be concluded deals.

 

But lets not worry too much, there is 20 days until our opening game and then a further few weeks until the transfer market closes, I'm sure in that time we'll have made further inroads and signed a few more players, although I think people are setting themselves up for a fall if they expect Ashley to pump 50m or whatever has been banded about (without quotes I might add).

 

As for Ashley's intentions - no one can fully know what they are but it is obvious he's no mug and will want to take Newcastle United as far as he can, like he has done with every one of his businesses and brands and that's what we will be to him. If he's here for a quick buck he's just spunked £130m down the drain, if he's here to make a steady return, he's an idiot because he'd get more back in interest in a savings account. No, he's here to do to Newcastle United what he did with all his other brands, build them up and make them successful - as that's the only way to make real money for a man who is already worth £2billion.

[Guest Knightrider]

Something is up, i'm starting to think we've been lied too.

 

 

By the papers?

 

Because Ashley hasn't said anything much less promise anything and neither has Mort or the manager for that matter. If you honestly believed what the papers were spouting or rather expected there to be huge sums of money to spend, more fool you. It isn't as straight forward as that.

[NE5]

 

oh dear.

 

Why don't you name the clubs that appointed managers who qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, who were therefore more successful and better choices  ?

 

 

 

No list, I thought not.

 

what list, the list of clubs who have made more successful appointments as manager in terms of league position and qualifying for europe in the last decade, which I believe I asked you ? If this is the list you mean, I'll save you the trouble, there is only 4.

 

But I'll let you look it up for yourself as to who they are.

 

 

[NE5]

 

Like who?

I know Benitez was moaning about a lack of money or something like that.

 

Surely not Liverpool ?

 

I thought that we were the only club with shite directors 

[Baggio]

 

Like who?

I know Benitez was moaning about a lack of money or something like that.

 

Surely not Liverpool ?

 

I thought that we were the only club with s**** directors 

 

[ChezGiven]

Just to clarify a few things, there are a few different arguments going on here at once. Firstly i believe we are, as a football and a business, in a much better state. We have a half-decent manager for the first time in a few years. We have also replaced some but not all players that needed replacing, clearly there is more work to be done but and we will need to wait and see how we play under him. On the business side we now have private equity of, at present, an unknown amount of £££s to be invested into the club. Whether this is more than the previous board had to invest is beyond question in my mind. Ashley invested after West Ham's takeover and at the same time as Man city's. He knows that added investment is going to be required just as much as we all know it.

 

I have no desire to compare the new board to the old board because i believed the old board did a half-decent job in turning us around from facing down the leagues, to facing up the league and being in Europe. What has happened so far is no different to what would have occured under the old board (i think it was me that first pointed that out on NE5's forum) but Allardyce is not running around pretending to be interested in edmilson and deco because its a PR smokescreen from Ashley ot make us think we have money when he really intends, in an evil underhand way, to bleed us dry.

 

[Mick]

 

Surely not Liverpool ?

 

I thought that we were the only club with s**** directors 

 

Who said Liverpool had shit directors?

[Mick]

 

what list, the list of clubs who have made more successful appointments as manager in terms of league position and qualifying for europe in the last decade, which I believe I asked you ? If this is the list you mean, I'll save you the trouble, there is only 4.

 

But I'll let you look it up for yourself as to who they are.

 

 

 

I understand that the question is still probably bouncing around in the void between your lugs

[Dokko]

Something is up, i'm starting to think we've been lied too.

 

 

By the papers?

 

Because Ashley hasn't said anything much less promise anything and neither has Mort or the manager for that matter. If you honestly believed what the papers were spouting or rather expected there to be huge sums of money to spend, more fool you. It isn't as straight forward as that.

 

I suppose he didn't say anything, but the hype was there, and he generated it one way or another. Those words were put into the papers by his team and people speaking on his behalf. The papers didn't just make it up, i know they do a lot of that, but every one was wording it the same, it had a source, and it came somewhere from him imo.

 

I'm just getting a bit fed up with the lack of a defense. You can say players are knocking us back, were not offering daft money anymore etc..But truth is nothing major seems to be happening anymore. Unless SA sees Baines & Davies (and the likes of) as last minute deals when others haven't pulled off, i cannot see why we haven't gone for these players. Young, English, and at clubs smaller than us. £6m for Baines & £7m for Davies would be accepted after some player and agent pressure, are these players not good enough for us now? Is Babayaro & Ramage that highly rated?

 

Were gonna miss the boat even more so, and with the season kicking off not so far away, we are nowhere near ready, still dogged by injuries, still with players on our books that have a negative effect on the club, still lacking a defense and still in the papers for all the wrong reasons. Nothings changed, and the new regime is moving too slowly for my liking in changing this club around. This season is the most important season for NUFC in a long time, every effort needs to be made to push the club on with so many new rivals in place for Euro spots next season, nevermind Champions League. Stand still and you go backwards, this season more so than ever.

[Mick]

 

I suppose he didn't say anything, but the hype was there, and he generated it one way or another. Those words were put into the papers by his team and people speaking on his behalf. The papers didn't just make it up, i know they do a lot of that, but every one was wording it the same, it had a source, and it came somewhere from him imo.

 

I'm just getting a bit fed up with the lack of a defense. You can say players are knocking us back, were not offering daft money anymore etc..But truth is nothing major seems to be happening anymore. Unless SA sees Baines & Davies (and the likes of) as last minute deals when others haven't pulled off, i cannot see why we haven't gone for these players. Young, English, and at clubs smaller than us. £6m for Baines & £7m for Davies would be accepted after some player and agent pressure, are these players not good enough for us now? Is Babayaro & Ramage that highly rated?

 

Were gonna miss the boat even more so, and with the season kicking off not so far away, we are nowhere near ready, still dogged by injuries, still with players on our books that have a negative effect on the club, still lacking a defense and still in the papers for all the wrong reasons. Nothings changed, and the new regime is moving too slowly for my liking in changing this club around. This season is the most important season for NUFC in a long time, every effort needs to be made to push the club on with so many new rivals in place for Euro spots next season, nevermind Champions League. Stand still and you go backwards, this season more so than ever.

 

If one newspaper comes out with a quote from an unknown club source they all jump on it and use the same source, I'd take any of that with a huge pinch of salt.  As for the getting into the papers for all of the wrong reasons, you can't pin that one on Ashley or Mort.

 

We do need to see players coming in but I'd rather not see another Boumsong, Owen or Luque farce.

[Dokko]

 

I suppose he didn't say anything, but the hype was there, and he generated it one way or another. Those words were put into the papers by his team and people speaking on his behalf. The papers didn't just make it up, i know they do a lot of that, but every one was wording it the same, it had a source, and it came somewhere from him imo.

 

I'm just getting a bit fed up with the lack of a defense. You can say players are knocking us back, were not offering daft money anymore etc..But truth is nothing major seems to be happening anymore. Unless SA sees Baines & Davies (and the likes of) as last minute deals when others haven't pulled off, i cannot see why we haven't gone for these players. Young, English, and at clubs smaller than us. £6m for Baines & £7m for Davies would be accepted after some player and agent pressure, are these players not good enough for us now? Is Babayaro & Ramage that highly rated?

 

Were gonna miss the boat even more so, and with the season kicking off not so far away, we are nowhere near ready, still dogged by injuries, still with players on our books that have a negative effect on the club, still lacking a defense and still in the papers for all the wrong reasons. Nothings changed, and the new regime is moving too slowly for my liking in changing this club around. This season is the most important season for NUFC in a long time, every effort needs to be made to push the club on with so many new rivals in place for Euro spots next season, nevermind Champions League. Stand still and you go backwards, this season more so than ever.

 

If one newspaper comes out with a quote from an unknown club source they all jump on it and use the same source, I'd take any of that with a huge pinch of salt.  As for the getting into the papers for all of the wrong reasons, you can't pin that one on Ashley or Mort.

 

We do need to see players coming in but I'd rather not see another Boumsong, Owen or Luque farce.

 

There are players out there which we can be making moves for though, and were not doing so.

 

SA said something about the new board not really knowing whats going on and that he's missing out on players. Why would he miss out on players with a new board? Surely all they have to do is release funds? Why are they not doing so?

[Guest Knightrider]

I suppose he didn't say anything, but the hype was there, and he generated it one way or another. Those words were put into the papers by his team and people speaking on his behalf. The papers didn't just make it up, i know they do a lot of that, but every one was wording it the same, it had a source, and it came somewhere from him imo.

 

I doubt anything knowingly came from Ashley himself or Mort, as for all the reports sounding the same, well most papers copy one another but put their own 'unique' spin on things.

 

I'm just getting a bit fed up with the lack of a defense.

 

I'm getting more fed up with the knee-jerk reaction to what is clearly a lull in transfer negotiations, than anything else - personally speaking.

 

You can say players are knocking us back, were not offering daft money anymore etc..But truth is nothing major seems to be happening anymore. Unless SA sees Baines & Davies (and the likes of) as last minute deals when others haven't pulled off, i cannot see why we haven't gone for these players. Young, English, and at clubs smaller than us. £6m for Baines & £7m for Davies would be accepted after some player and agent pressure, are these players not good enough for us now? Is Babayaro & Ramage that highly rated?

 

You make it sound so easy, I'm sure WBA have placed a massive fee on Davies' head where as Wigan have already knocked back bids for Baines from the mackems, bid believed to be in the £5m region. Perhaps we just don't have those kind of funds yet, perhaps Big Sam doesn't rate them, perhaps they are overpriced, perhaps we are indeed after them and close to signing them. Who knows. All I know is that the manager and board, in very difficult times, will be doing their best to get in sufficient quality prior to the big-kick off.

 

Were gonna miss the boat even more so, and with the season kicking off not so far away, we are nowhere near ready, still dogged by injuries, still with players on our books that have a negative effect on the club, still lacking a defense and still in the papers for all the wrong reasons. Nothings changed, and the new regime is moving too slowly for my liking in changing this club around. This season is the most important season for NUFC in a long time, every effort needs to be made to push the club on with so many new rivals in place for Euro spots next season, nevermind Champions League. Stand still and you go backwards, this season more so than ever.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day. Since May Big Sam has had to identify new targets, sign 4 of them, look for more, been knocked back, had to change his plans once or twice, try and resolve back-room team positions, end an injury jinx, prepare the team for pre-season, field questions from the media and all of this at a club that has just been taken over, a club that can no longer attract players as easily as it once did due to a change in policy (paying huge wages and transfer fees), not being in Europe and stiff competition from others who are now all flush with money.

 

Perhaps this is the point where we all need to accept reality and not build our hopes up too much or expect too much too soon. The task at hand is a mighty one facing the manager and board. I am prepared to put up with these frustrations as I know in the long-term we will be all the more healthier for it.

 

Of course Ashley could never have happened and Freddy could have giving Big Sam £20m to spend and we'd have all our players signed by now. But we'd be an extra 20m in debt, still fallible to Freddy's mismanagement and because we'd be under massive financial pressure to qualify for Europe, Big Sam himself would be under just as much pressure.

 

Honestly, you can't make the sweeping changes we all want to see enforced over night, be thankful we ARE heading in the right direction. Yes be frustrated with things and yes question certain things, but how anyone can be so downbeat is beyond me.

 

Here's a tip: instead of looking at things from today, look at things from a few years down the line. Tell me you aren't smiling?

 

I am, I'm positively beaming

[NE5]

 

what list, the list of clubs who have made more successful appointments as manager in terms of league position and qualifying for europe in the last decade, which I believe I asked you ? If this is the list you mean, I'll save you the trouble, there is only 4.

 

But I'll let you look it up for yourself as to who they are.

 

 

 

I understand that the question is still probably bouncing around in the void between your lugs

 

no list or reply I see

 

 

[Mick]

 

 

There are players out there which we can be making moves for though, and were not doing so.

 

SA said something about the new board not really knowing whats going on and that he's missing out on players. Why would he miss out on players with a new board? Surely all they have to do is release funds? Why are they not doing so?

 

Funds must have been given to Allardyce or he wouldn't even be talking to players, it looks like things are stalling at the stage where wages are concerned and I have no idea why that is, maybe we've now got a wage structure or agents are seeing TV money and are going way OTT when trying to negotiate contracts.

 

None of us know.