Everything falling into place?

[Mick]

 

Can't believe the furore just because myself - and a few others - have expressed concern about Allardyce's own words to be honest. Anyone would think that people were pretending he didn't say them for some reason. Can't think why.

 

If anyone knows the true situation as regarding backing of the manager, its him.

 

 

 

Allardyce said something along the lines of Mort taking too long to move, that has turned into him not being backed, try again, nobody is denying what actually was said.

 

[Baggio]

<snip>

Who said top 4?

 

I'd hope for us to finish top 7 in the league on a regular basis, especially as we're the current holders of the "5th best over the past decade" trophy.

 

Don't Villa have that now, based on league finishes? Or did we just hold them off at the death? Seem to remember it being brought up at the time.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mick]

 

Don't Villa have that now, based on league finishes? Or did we just hold them off at the death? Seem to remember it being brought up at the time.

 

I think we just retained that trophy but Doug Ellis kept his for finishing above us more while him and Shepherd were leading the clubs.

[Mick]

 

Shepherd was s***, you are glad he's gone, but will settle for the new board not doing as well  mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif

 

Absolutely priceless.

 

 

 

 

Where did that come from?

 

12th next season is better than the 13th before but I hope we do better than that.  We're now in a poor position, sorry were a month or so ago, Mort did not take over a team who were 2nd top of the league.

[Dr Venkman]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

I cant fault that. I do think there is evidence though that Allardyce can get good players for small amounts or on a free. We are lucky to have him and we both know who to thank.

 

As I've said earlier, he's said he can't get the players he wants because we have no European football so it makes sense if he's looking to bring in players that can get us into Europe on short term contracts so he can try for the players he wants in January/next summer.

 

Dismissing people because they're free is stupid when nearly everyone would have taken Campbell and Distin under the same circumstances.

 

Spending money on players you don't want to keep numpties on messageboards happy is not the way forward either, both manager and chairman have said the money is there so I really can't see what your problem is, and before you start I couldn't care less about Shepherd or Hall now, they're history and Ashley will get my full support until I think things are going wrong, that's not 2 weeks after taking over either.

 

I think numpties on message boards - or anywhere for that matter - are people who think that success can be obtained without spending money, people who slate the last board for not spending cash despite spending bucketfuls and are now saying not spending any is the way forward, people who think having a DOF cures all your ills, and biggest of all people who think all you need is a "plan" to be successful and we haven't had one having played in the Champions League, europe regularly and reached a couple of Cup Finals in the last decade.

 

There are 2 possibilities here

 

One is that Ashley came in and knew it would cost 200m quid to buy the club and clear the debt. If this is the case, the slate is clean and he has written this money off and is running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

Two is that he didn't, meaning he's not a shrewd as people are making out ?

 

And another 3rd option, which Vic touched on, is that Allardyce is still thinking in Bolton mode, and not high enough for Newcastle.

 

Which is it ? bear in mind his comment about "they would be stupid not to back me now"

 

 

 

He's said he's got money but the players he wants want come because we have no European football - You seem to be ignoring this and trying to get it through to you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

Do you think Allardyce is lying?

 

If you look at our dealings in the past we managed to sweeten the lack of Euopean/Champions League football through grossly exaggerated wages and minimum release clauses (means to an end).

 

If Mort/Ashley/Sam have put a stop to this and offered a fair wage but no 'compensation wages' as it were then it has to be a good thing and falls in the middle of your two arguments.

 

So I wouldn't say Sam is lying, but under the Freddy regime I reckon one or two of these players would have been persuaded to sign due to our 'ambtion'.

 

 

Be careful you aren't labelled a Shepherd lover or anything else similarly daft, simply for pointing out something which is a very real possibility.

 

 

 

And you think paying over the odds in terms of wages is a good thing? It's one of the contributing factors as to why this club doesn't make a profit.

 

I suppose it was a good idea to pay Luque a bigger wage to make up for our lack of European football? Shame we offered him so much that nobody will take him of our hands, not even on loan.

 

 

I did insinuate not to use the extreme case. I should have known someone would. By the other extreme I could say if we carry on not paying the going rate and buying cheap players, as you seem to want to do, we would end up like the mackems have been [which is where we were right alongside them before the Halls and Shepherd], Sheff Wed, Wolves etc

 

 

 

How do you work out we'll end up like Sheffied Wed and Wolves when we've already signed the likes of Viduka, Barton, Smith and Geremi this summer?

 

All on good wages no doubt.

 

You've stopped reading my comments properly. I have said a few times that Allardyce has done very well with his limited resources - geddit ?

 

How much have we made through sales again ?

 

 

 

They've been in charge 2 weekss and you've already made your mind up that they haven't got any money to spend.

 

How are you going to feel if they go out and buy baines and this Drago fella? Will that make you happy to see them spending money?

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

I haven't made my mind up at all BTW, I read what Allardyce said and didn't put rose tinted specs on when I read it. Maybe it was a shock tactic that worked, but it shouldn't be like that, if it is indeed a sign of things to come, or he is going to spend his career as Newcastle battling for cash, then he will walk.

 

 

 

is it really ALL about league finishes though? surely there has to be SOME element of thought paid to reducing debt, building a squad with free signings and relatively low level signings so that we can progress as a team, looking at defence aswell as attack, its all very well spunking big on attacking players to make up for our lack of quality at the back, and lack of quality in the management team, but isnt it better to make sure all the core elements are in place first? to be honest it sounds to me like you were so traumatised by the pre 1992 era, that after things have gotten better under the halls/shepherds you're just reluctant to let go, things change man, clubs move on, sheperd was a cretin and we're lucky to be rid of him, there are so many things that matter more than 'releasing funds'

 

like a lot of people have said before me, give them a chance man

 

Can't believe the furore just because myself - and a few others - have expressed concern about Allardyce's own words to be honest. Anyone would think that people were pretending he didn't say them for some reason. Can't think why.

 

If anyone knows the true situation as regarding backing of the manager, its him.

 

 

 

i take your point, but the same could be said of your over-reaction to allardyces comments, posting 'back to the dark ages' every five minutes, as someone already said, sam is a moaner man, we never know why managers say certain things, lets see what happens, there's nothing wrong with a bit of optimism, everything in moderation

[TRon]

£12m spent on two players in the space of a few days. West Ham told to stick their £6m for Dyer where the sun don't shine....

 

how did that happen since according to some here, Ashley wasn't going to back Big Sam and we had to 'sell before we buy'?

 

 

[simmsy10]

£12m on two players??

[TRon]

From the reports I'm reading the fee for both Smith and Enrique is £6m each. Seen it in a few papers this morning.

 

 

[simmsy10]

Didn't see the papers so was wondering what was going on there! Does it say he's going to sign then? I was wondering who our other signing was but i know what you are talking about now!