NJS

The thing us though that I think that Guttierez has proven time and time again that he is not good enough. He does not cross well, his final balls are non-existent and his woeful attempts at finishing are completely reflected in his goal scoring record. I still think he "looks" a very good player - I just think he's fooling everyone with that impression. As for singling him out, I think apart from Bassong I could not give a flying fuck about losing any player in our entire so called "squad" (who won't be leaving anyway) - I'm just sick of being told that I should recognise quality when I see only graft.

Yep. Let's all forget the lovely cross for Oba and winning a free kick in a very dangerous position, because he is shite. One half-decent cross excuses 90 minutes of dross now does it? On the free kick a good player would have stayed up. What a load of shit Yes he is - and its about time people realised it.

Yep. Let's all forget the lovely cross for Oba and winning a free kick in a very dangerous position, because he is shite. One half-decent cross excuses 90 minutes of dross now does it? On the free kick a good player would have stayed up.

Because good players accept pittances. Bassong will be on less than Cacapa. Jonas will be on less than Duff. Martins will be on less than Viduka. of course you can get better players on smaller wages. It's all about value for money. The last one not by much I'd guess but then again these wonderful "value" wages also lead to decent ones heads being turned - the opposite of the Geremi/Duff problem.

Because good players accept pittances.

Is Martins leaving? Possibly - even if he doesn't he never plays a full season. Even if he doesn't you can't get by with two good strikers + dross.

You've got to be careful of taking it too literally, but in circumstances like this summer where as you say we really need as least one first choice striker to partner Martins, how are we going to raise the funds required? Likewise if they want to progress up the table. We can't expect to trade up every time; it puts massive pressure on the scouting network, the negotiating team and the manager to keep things turning over. Then again, later on Llambias insists we currently have a 'great' squad and if all fit (and presumably under Kinnear's direction) 'we're right up there'. Again he refers to Villa as taking their time and being stable before making an assault on the top spots, he neglects to mention they also spent a small fortune to attempt it. Despite this however he reckons their team is 'no better than us'. Well I'm writing off the TV + other income as that will go down the "just keeping the club afloat" black hole that seemingly exists so if they do go back for Johnson etc as they said then the striker money will be even less. I also think Martins may get restless in which case a "strike" force of Carroll, Ameobi and Xisco will make us certainties for relegation (if we stop up this year).

Two first choice strikers this summer for £10m - wonderful.

Duff is very much on my "should never play for us again" list. I would have Guttierez in the team - my point was just that I felt his chance was an excellent one which I'd expect a good player (which I think he is) to do better and I don't understand why people are "letting him off" so easily.

He panicked. He's not a striker or even a goalscoring midfielder, so I'm not that bothered. Should have done better but these things happen. How much do we play players a week for them to panic and come nowhere near hitting the target. Fuck me if we can't get frustrated or angry about player's basic failures we might as well give up. When you put it like that, Jonas is nowhere near good enough for us. We really should have someone like Ryan Giggs or David Villa in that role. I played pub football in a local league - probably about 56 levels below the PREMIER LEAGUE (© Spence) - from such a gulf I expect professionals to be able to hit the target with shots most of the time and maybe pass to their team mates occasionally compared to my shitness. The fact that I have to repeatedly comment on the fact that we (and other teams) have players who cannot do that on a consistent basis drives me mental. There is no excuse for basic ineptitude. Of course they have better defenders against them and may try more outrageous things but the basics should be a given and I'm sick of people settling for it. Guttierez looks a decent player to me - not the superstar some clam but a good player at our level with a reasonable level of talent. However he need to start putting it to good use which means crosses, final passes and goals - am I really expecting too much?

He panicked. He's not a striker or even a goalscoring midfielder, so I'm not that bothered. Should have done better but these things happen. How much do we play players a week for them to panic and come nowhere near hitting the target. Fuck me if we can't get frustrated or angry about player's basic failures we might as well give up.

Man he was nowhere near through on goal, you need to go back and watch it again. I suppose its expectations - there are a few players I'd expect to score from that position - I just need to add Guttierez to the list of those who who I think will probably not - sadly a list which comprises out entire squad apart from Martins and Owen.

He was played in as the last man and was through on goal - the defender got back to cover because he didn't drive for the goal enough - it wasn't as bad as Lovenkrands' but to me it was an excellent chance - if it had been Shola he'd have been slagged off to fuck for it.

Why is everyone ignoring Guttierez' shocking miss? Is it because he is awesome? Probably because it wasn't that shocking. He should have hit the target but the angle wasn't great in any case. If he was half as good as people on here think he is, it was an open goal. Do you think Robert would have scored? - I do. What are you on about? A player in the EPL through on goal within 5 yards of the centre - I call that a chance which I expect to be converted - maybe I've been spoilt by too many good players in the last 15 years and now have to get used to this level of expectation - Ashley's "You've seen worse" - my arse.

I don't - I'm not sure about a few others here.

I think we'll lose the next five.

Why is everyone ignoring Guttierez' shocking miss? Is it because he is awesome? Probably because it wasn't that shocking. He should have hit the target but the angle wasn't great in any case. If he was half as good as people on here think he is, it was an open goal. Do you think Robert would have scored? - I do.

Why is everyone ignoring Guttierez' shocking miss? Is it because he is awesome?

Sorry no - being honest without wanting to sound like a dick I could afford a lot more if I really wanted it. Even if it was £20 a season I'd still have to get to home games (I live in Essex) which costs at least £50 a game.

The way I feel at the moment I'd say no. However I realise things in life can change - I know a lad who just about gave up about 6 years ago who has now started going again because he takes his 8 year old son and seeing it through the kid's eyes has made it worthwhile again. I could also move back nearer the NE in future which would make a difference but that's unlikely. In one way I feel strong enough to say "no, not ever" but in another sense its just more of a case of saying "meh".

So if the club is not sold your never going to go back until the point that MA leaves ? Yes - but I'm pretty confident it will be sold within 2 years at the most. I still intend to go to a few away games. & put money into other clubs instead? No - Support the team without contributing to the corrupt. You're getting the tickets for free? "instead" is the key word. It was a reference to you saying "No" to me asking if you would be putting money into other clubs rather than ours, which you will be. I can't understand people who can afford it chucking in their season tickets "because of Ashley" but there you go, particularly if they're going to subsidise other clubs with the money instead. It's not a money issue anyway but giving an individual club £35 or whatever is small beer compared with £550. As I said to you on anither thread a few weeks ago its about not being arsed with the travel to attend a game with a generally shit atmosphere watching shit players try and play a game which I've pretty much fallen out of love with. Away games have better atmospheres and reflect the sport I used to love. The reason I would consider returning to SJP when Ashley leaves is that that is the only circumstance where I can imagine the odious people who have contributed so much to my lack of hope will be gone.

So if the club is not sold your never going to go back until the point that MA leaves ? Yes - but I'm pretty confident it will be sold within 2 years at the most. I still intend to go to a few away games. & put money into other clubs instead? No - Support the team without contributing to the corrupt. You're getting the tickets for free? "instead" is the key word.

So if the club is not sold your never going to go back until the point that MA leaves ? Yes - but I'm pretty confident it will be sold within 2 years at the most. I still intend to go to a few away games. & put money into other clubs instead? No - Support the team without contributing to the corrupt.

So if the club is not sold your never going to go back until the point that MA leaves ? Yes - but I'm pretty confident it will be sold within 2 years at the most. I still intend to go to a few away games.

Cancelled the direct debit with no intention of renewing - would renew if club is sold.