Kitman

OK. Can I make it clear that I do Economics, not Financial accounting, and therefore there is no actual reason for me to know this stuff. I did Economics too, and I can't swear to it, but I'm sure I wouldn't have expected an employer to be currently liable for all future earnings of its employees. If that's the case, can I show all of my future profits from now til the end of time as an enormous asset? bluebigrazz.gif The difference I've perceived though, is that you can be sacked, made redundant etc with 4 weeks notice. The contracts players sign are a lot different, as they are for a fixed duration of time, and therefore, a club has to pay out the contract if they want to release the player. Not that you do any accounting at work (despite being an accountant) so you wouldn't know. Following that through then, a normal business would have to show a liability for 4 weeks (or whatever the notice period is) wages for its staff. They don't, similarly if you ar eon a six month contract the business doesn't show the 6 months wages oh deary deary me blueno.gif

I'll probably get linked to an American website, and you know what Americans are like when it comes to accounts, balance sheets etc. Newcastle's accounts are prepared under IFRS - whcih are closer to traditional US GAAP than UK. Which words do you expect T27 to get - IFRS, GAAP or UK? What does T27 stand for? Ah, I feel you're back on firmer ground now bluebiggrin.gif

I'll probably get linked to an American website, and you know what Americans are like when it comes to accounts, balance sheets etc. Newcastle's accounts are prepared under IFRS - whcih are closer to traditional US GAAP than UK. Which words do you expect T27 to get - IFRS, GAAP or UK?

OK. Can I make it clear that I do Economics, not Financial accounting, and therefore there is no actual reason for me to know this stuff. I did Economics too, and I can't swear to it, but I'm sure I wouldn't have expected an employer to be currently liable for all future earnings of its employees. If that's the case, can I show all of my future profits from now til the end of time as an enormous asset? bluebigrazz.gif The difference I've perceived though, is that you can be sacked, made redundant etc with 4 weeks notice. The contracts players sign are a lot different, as they are for a fixed duration of time, and therefore, a club has to pay out the contract if they want to release the player. Not that you do any accounting at work (despite being an accountant) so you wouldn't know. Oh deary me head_hurts_kr.gif

OK. Can I make it clear that I do Economics, not Financial accounting, and therefore there is no actual reason for me to know this stuff. 10/10 for effort bluebiggrin.gif

Write an article on the finances please. I want to hear some more of these "facts" of yours. It's like shooting fish in a barrel for Mr Gemmill bluebiggrin.gif

Just had a quick read of the Chairman's statement. The chat on finances shouldn't be allowed to cloud a period of achievement, including holding a Bryan Adams concert, opening a museum and the club's chef getting second place in the North East chef of the year award. I feel very proud bluebiggrin.gif

Does it take into account how much Shepherd has been dipping into the petty cash for his pies? More like lard stotties bluebiggrin.gif

The balance sheet is a snapshot of the club's position on a certain date, so it's the trends you look for really. I haven't looked at the figures but based on what you say the trend on cash is not good. Having said that, many businesses borrow to fund their working capital so it's not a disaster in itself, but it's worrying if in conjunction with heavy and continued losses. At flotation we raised a great deal of cash and my impression is that we have steadily worked our way through it since then to the point where it's now nearly gone. I'd guess that the biggest drain on our resources has been large transfer losses and players wages which have not been offset by income generated from success on the pitch (CL revenue, Sky coverage, merchandising etc). If we're making losses, those losses need to be financed by someone, usually either external banks or investors/shareholders. You can't criticise the Board for lacking ambition, whether the money's been spent wisely is another debate. And of course there's the old chestnut about whether money should have been taken out in dividends. That's already been done to death by Macbeth/NE5 etc. The question is how long we can keep stumping up for big name transfers but that depends to a certain extent on the true state of the club's finances and its realistic prospects. The results are of course historic so the club will have known about this position at the time from their own internal accounts. It's likely there's already been significant belt tightening on wages etc, which is why we have a relatively thin squad, with further transfers in Jan probably to be financed out of sales. Unless we're totally in the shit of course, in which case we may need to borrow more to buy our way out of trouble. Who knows? I do think we're a million miles away from a Leeds type scenario though.

I'm not an accountant so I'm sure someone will correct me if this is wrong. Your current liabilities are made up of everything the company is liable to pay in the short term, generally less than one year. This includes trade creditors (ie trade purchases), tax, short term finance such as hire purchase/finance leases and the amounts owed to staff and external parties like accountants. It will also include the proportion of bank debt that it is repayable within one year. It's up to the company when it repays its current liabilities and how it finances this. The company has its debtors and cash to pay its liabilities out of, so before you panic too much you need to look at the other side of the balance sheet to see the assets available out of which it can pay its creditors. Trade debtors will generally all be less than one year, so as long as they are good debts they should be collectable in the short tem and available to finance current creditors, plus any available cash. Generally companies will juggle their cash and borrow against debtors if there's a shortfall. Obviously if creditors exceed debtors the company is technically insolvent, but in the case of NUFC there is a massive share capital to offset the deficit of liabilities over assets. The problem comes if all the cash has been burned through meaning that any further net liabilities have to be financed out of further borrowings. This is the position I think we're in now. Hope that makes sense!

I believe a current liability is repayable in less than one year, non current is repayable after one year

It wasn't me, officer, I was at home watching the telly at the time :jesus:

True I believe after this season the wage ratio will drop because of player sales but the problem is we are simply spending too much money. We spend over £3m getting shot of Souness. We spend over £2m a year on staff wages (non players) someone needs to go through the club and get rid of some of the daft spending cause I have no doubt in parts we are being run like leeds where they had something daft like 250,000 a year going out on fish. Looking at just the wage ratio isn't all we can do but look at the club debts, the club needs to start brining in the correct players who we know have a better chance of doing well and stop wasting cash. The statement actually says at the top that the board has the final say on player purchases so they are to blame if they agree to waste cash we don't have. Peter Risdale is a great example of this. I bet £2m a year on non player staff wages is next to nothing when I assume it covers coaching and medical staff, backroom people and scouts etc. If anything we could do with spending more on these people to get a better return on the players we have. I doubt we have any real waste we can trim, I expect the club is well run in that respect. In terms of Souness, that's £3m well spent given the mistake in agreeing to his original contract. If he had any sort of self respect or conscience he and his cronies would have accepted a reduced pay off for the appalling job he did, but sadly life's not like that.

Oh dear, I predict another 20 page thread once NE5 and Macbeth get going on this Don't see much problem discussing the clubs finances ? All depends on whether it's treated as a footnote to previous threads Macbeth "There, I TOLD you they're doing a shit job. They're driving the club to the wall. £33m in dividends and we're spending 63% of our income on wages" NE5 "Do you want a club with no ambition? Do you want to sign England internationals at the peak of their careers or not. Why did Waddle and Beardsley leave?" and so on. and on. and on. :bigbro: The big picture is sometimes hard to understand, yes. Not really. I do wish I was as clever as you though.

Oh dear, I predict another 20 page thread once NE5 and Macbeth get going on this Don't see much problem discussing the clubs finances ? All depends on whether it's treated as a footnote to previous threads Macbeth "There, I TOLD you they're doing a shit job. They're driving the club to the wall. £33m in dividends and we're spending 63% of our income on wages" NE5 "Do you want a club with no ambition? Do you want to sign England internationals at the peak of their careers or not. Why did Waddle and Beardsley leave?" and so on. and on. and on. :bigbro:

Oh dear, I predict another 20 page thread once NE5 and Macbeth get going on this

....don't forget the large expense account and the secretary called Tracey

Too much temptation, you've got whistle blowing in your blood. You'd not be able to resist blowing the lid off some scandal or other

No way, I have it on good authority he's the 5th best chairman ever. Oh go on then, I'll give this fella a go, just as long as I can get on Sky Sports outside SJP and say "Wur gannu win the league noo man"!!!!!

be careful what you wish for, Parky

It's only a matter of time before some numpty says "Be careful what you wish for" as if they have a clue what they're talking about.

Well you know there's got to be an angle. It's not because they're all loveable cockneys, and there's nothing Eli Wallach likes more than a plate of jellied eels and a chorus of I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles. Or maybe he was a member of the Intercity Firm in his youth?

Eh, Papa Lazaru? "You my football club now"?

It's a conspiracy, I tells ya :celb2:

Oh come on, we all know he's 28 really. Just look at his face - that's a lived in face, that is