Kitman

What an utter clown you are. Agree 100%.

.......irreparably damaging the playing surface?

A slim waistline

Decent appointment for them imo. I hope I'm wrong.

I must be living in different times, because Sunderland, although they've won very little in, say, my lifetime, are a club awash with history. Correct. It'd be foolish to write them off, it's only their mismanagement that's held them back. Much like ourselves in recent years.

Of course it's Ashley's fault. Not the fans, not Keegan, not Freddy Shepherd. Ashley was the owner with the opportunity to do something about the situation. He tolerated the shambles of Hughton and Kinnear, allowing the players to take the piss and throw away points, when one more point would have seen us safe. He made a profit in the January transfer window when anyone could see the squad was seriously sub standard and lacking numbers. He put his faith in Llambias and Wise, and other numpties, and gambled on getting by. There's no doubt there are other people who've contributed to this fiasco. There's no doubt the club was in decline when Ashley took over. But he's presided over a complete shambles and it's difficult to imagine how things could have gone worse. He's a fuckwit, I can't wait to see the back of him.

I expect he'll come across a dog he likes there

I should've known it was pointless posting in this thread

Regarding the appointment of managers, I can't criticise most of them. The one that stands out is Souness, which was met by bewilderment and dismay by most people (or hilarity for non-toon fans) and had disaster written all over it. But I think NE5's basic point about this is valid, in that it's basically a lottery. Dalglish ticked all the boxes at the time and didn't work out, same as Big Phil at Chelsea. Man Utd had any number of managers before Sir Alex and none delivered the league championship. It's not that easy. Most appointments are only truly rotten in hindsight. Roeder looked all right for a time. Gullit looked all right on paper. And Allardyce. And so on. But the really important thing is who's available and who's prepared to come. It's like making a list of players you'd like to sign; if they don't fancy the job or their clubs won't sell them then it doesn't matter what offers you make. Clubs like Liverpool and Chelsea are easy to sell to managers; we're not as easy and it's getting harder all the time. So it ain't as simple as saying 'Roeder was crap, why didn't we sign x,y,z' as manager? For all we know FS tried his best to get in somebody better and just couldn't manage it. FWIW, my main criticism of FS is his insistence on British managers and his lack of imagination. That made for a pretty small pond to fish in imo. That, and the signing of Souness which given the time it happened, the state of the club, and the opportunity that was there, has been absolutely pivotal in our decline imo.

That's more like it!

Never mind worst case, I think the likely scenario is that Kinnear will be back to "spearhead" our promotion campaign in the championship. With Ameobi leading the line. I'm not expecting next year to be fun at all, unless I can get my hands on some prozac. Sorry if that's pessimistic, like.

I take your point about the manager and agree with that. However the calibre of player we can attract is difficult to say - our stock has plainly fallen, but to what extent we don't know. However that is irrelevant if we are not prepared to spend the money on transfer fees and wages for players better than the likes of Nolan and R Taylor. The key here is wages - the main draw for non-Geordie and especially foreign players is going to be if we pay top dollar. But that was always the case once we dropped out of Europe anyway imo.

Cheers Dave. I know the credit crunch changed things but the 'get by with no net investment on the squad' strategy seems to have always been there (that's my impression anyway). Maybe that's understandable given the amounts of cash he's forked out to buy the club and replace the external loan creditors but it's somewhat naive....... The main thing I don't get was the lack of spending in January. I totally understand Madras' viewpoint about not being able to sustain the same spending year after year, but to extend my metaphor about the stately home, if it's obvious the roof is about to fall in, don't you find the money for serious emergency repairs? Oh well, I'll never understand how this calamitous season has got this point, all so avoidable but somehow so inevitable. Can't wait for it to be over tbh.

I totally understand the massive financial commitment Ashley has taken on - 20/30 mill a season to keep the club solvent is a lot of money. I also agree the club couldn't keep spending like it had and I wonder how we would have coped had Ashley not bought the club. However what I don't understand is why Ashley bought the club in the first place. He must have known it was a major financial commitment and he must have known he would have to pile cash in. Football clubs are notorious for burning through cash on wages and transfers and very few ever make a profit. It must also have been obvious that we had a big hole in our accounts and it must also have been obvious he would have to re-mortgage - you don't need extensive due diligence for to get over the top of either of those points. So should we be grateful for him buying us when he couldn't afford to do so? Why thank someone for buying a stately home and then watching the roof fall in because they can only afford basic maintenance? I fully accept we may have been in serious financial bother without him but other clubs seem to have managed to stay afloat and restructure their debts perfectly well as necessary - talk of administration and foreclosure just seem over the top to me. If you don't accept a doomsday financial meltdown scenario, I don't see a lot to thank him for personally. I keep waiting for West Ham to go into liquidation but it hasn't happened yet.

I think there's every chance they'd offer Dowie the job. Could turn out all right, you never know.

Wiped his arse on Keegan's list of transfer targets? And then sat there laughing while his fat pay cheque rolled in? I'm just guessing of course. i would wipe arse on keegans transfer list if it is true that the 3 primary names where: Beckham, Lampard and Henry! FFS ! get a reality check ps. i liked keegan but that was absurd It was tongue in cheek actually. I'm guessing you're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

no it goes to an NOTW exclusive (with i think lambias) about a list of players keegan wanted. Seems unlikely Llambias was telling the whole truth. That's obvious. probably but i also doubt he's naive enough to tell outright lies to nations biggest ragshhet. Depends what you mean by outright lies. But, tell you what, let's leave it at that as it's really ancient history now and I don't know why I'm bothering replying to you.

no it goes to an NOTW exclusive (with i think lambias) about a list of players keegan wanted. Seems unlikely Llambias was telling the whole truth. That's obvious.

Wiped his arse on Keegan's list of transfer targets? And then sat there laughing while his fat pay cheque rolled in? I'm just guessing of course. if the list of transfer targets were true he was right to walk If if if.... If you're referring to the supposed Henry request, I think that was propaganda. Not that it matters, or anyone cares anymore.

"I'm not at liberty to comment. I shall make a full statement once the matter has been decided by the court."

"The bells! The bells! She gave me water! She gave me water!"

Wiped his arse on Keegan's list of transfer targets? And then sat there laughing while his fat pay cheque rolled in? I'm just guessing of course.

I honestly think we're going down, sorry to be pessimistic. We're a shambles from top to bottom, we lack confidence, belief, shape, fitness, results. We don't need our best players back, we don't need Joe Kinnear, we need a big fucking dollop of luck. Maybe Joe's got a pair of lucky underpants he puts on for his relegation battles.

Dont believe that atall. Even they cannot be so moronic that they would choose Kinnear with much better options available. In reality, Llambias perception of "top managers" is probably different from ours. I wouldn't bet against it myself. Kinnear is probably much cheaper than most alternatives, which seems to be a prevalent theme in Ashley's regime so far.. Spot on....if they paid enough for a top manager and gave him a permanent contract we would not be sitting here with Kinnear. Surely our Premiership survival is worth whatever it takes compared to the consequences of relegation!!! Madness isn't it? The manager is our most important signing bar none, yet we seem to consistently bungle it....

There was plenty of time to get in a decent manager, refresh the squad and move forward. Instead we got in Joe Kinnear, have failed to even invest transfer proceeds in the squad and have tolerated Hughton as caretaker manager when he is totally out of his depth. Since Keegan left we have seen inertia, equivocation, compacency, myopia, incompetence. There's only one person to blame for that, see the OP.