Unbelievable

Put it this way, if we could sell him tomorrow for let's say 7 million and we could save 18 million in wages over the next 3 years, thatr would give us 25 million to attract a striker (transfer fee and wages) to build our team around. I think there are options out there who would prove to add more value than Owen has done in the past three years for us. Obviously I appreciate there is only one day left in the transfer window, so all of this is now merely a theoretical possibility, which is exactly why I am not happy with this news: we have failed to deal with this situation when we could and are now in a position where we are no longer the party in control..

He's as close to one as we're going to get at this point in time. How come other clubs are managing to get quality strikers in who can remain fit? Owen's a good player when fit, but essentially we have still not replaced Shearer as the speerhead of our attack. How many of these players would be signing for those clubs if they had, or had a chance, of signing Michael Owen? Heh? If the likes of Boro, West Ham, etc. were big enough to sign, or could afford Michael Owen, do you think they'd have signed who they have done rather than Owen? I doubt it. My entire point is: can WE afford Owen on that sort of deal? Edit: by that I mean the Owen we know, who is injured half of the time and who we cannot seemingly accomodate with any of our other strikers except for the even more injury prone Viduka? Can we afford to build our team around this sort of player, or would we be better off starting afresh and finding a long term partner for Martins?

You don't understand what I want at all do you? As I've said before, it's not necessarily about the money, it's about building a squad as strong as we possibly can. You will claim that will mean holding onto Owen, but I don't rate Owen that highly anymore. He is injury prone and has lost is pace; in general he is on the decline. I would hate for us to make him one of the best paid Premiership players for even longer. Have a look at Afonso Alves for example; he would have been the sort of attainable target I would have wanted us to go after. Boro bought him for what, 10 mill, and he will be on half the wages that Owen is on, so over 3 years that equates to around the same outlay, but for that you get a player who is in his prime playing days and could be another Berbatov (another such an example) in that the big clubs could come in for him if he does well and you could sell for a profit. I reckon we can get (or would have been able to get) the best part of that transfer sum if we would have flogged Owen this summer when it became clear he wasn't willing to sign a deal that reflected his value as a player more fairly. In short, I am worried that we are investing so many wages in a player who is made out of glass (haven't we learned anything?) at the detriment of the rest of the squad (a creative midfielder of recognised quality please). Fair enough. Regardless of how you rate the player though, surely you agree it'd send out a hugely negative message to any such players we're trying to attract? Michael Owen, our 'biggest' player, perceived by most (rightly or wrongly) as our best player, our record signing, allowed to leave the club because we're not willing to pay him enough. That's a fair point as well, but the club do not seem so worried about the signals they are sending out do they? For me, I would like to keep Owen but on our terms, not his. This just feels like we are being held to randsom, and if he doesn't want to be here and help the club out we should just sell him and cut our losses. In my opinion we could be better off in the long run.

He's as close to one as we're going to get at this point in time. How come other clubs are managing to get quality strikers in who can remain fit? Owen's a good player when fit, but essentially we have still not replaced Shearer as the speerhead of our attack. How many of these players would be signing for those clubs if they had, or had a chance, of signing Michael Owen? Heh?

Holland has been extended as well.

He's as close to one as we're going to get at this point in time. How come other clubs are managing to get quality strikers in who can remain fit? Owen's a good player when fit, but essentially we have still not replaced Shearer as the speerhead of our attack.

You don't understand what I want at all do you? As I've said before, it's not necessarily about the money, it's about building a squad as strong as we possibly can. You will claim that will mean holding onto Owen, but I don't rate Owen that highly anymore. He is injury prone and has lost is pace; in general he is on the decline. I would hate for us to make him one of the best paid Premiership players for even longer. Have a look at Afonso Alves for example; he would have been the sort of attainable target I would have wanted us to go after. Boro bought him for what, 10 mill, and he will be on half the wages that Owen is on, so over 3 years that equates to around the same outlay, but for that you get a player who is in his prime playing days and could be another Berbatov (another such an example) in that the big clubs could come in for him if he does well and you could sell for a profit. I reckon we can get (or would have been able to get) the best part of that transfer sum if we would have flogged Owen this summer when it became clear he wasn't willing to sign a deal that reflected his value as a player more fairly. In short, I am worried that we are investing so many wages in a player who is made out of glass (haven't we learned anything?) at the detriment of the rest of the squad (a creative midfielder of recognised quality please).

The Premiership is our biggest draw for players from outside the UK. Other clubs manage to sign good players and they don't have to pay their talisman ridiculous wages to attract them either..

What's there to be happy about? He's arguably our best player, and we can ill-afford for him to leave. A 3 year contract at 120k/week gives him every reason to stay. As I´ve said before in this thread, I will not be pleased if he signs on an improved deal as I think we can do better and we are talking another massive 18 million for the duration of this contract. He simply isn´t worth the wages we are offering him; he would be lucky to get just over half of that elsewhere considering his fitness record.

It is very early days to be including Collocini and Guthrie as improvements over the outgoing players. Collocini has the pedigree but could fail to adjust to this league (he wouldn't be the first) and Guthrie is still just a promising youngster who has made a good start at his new club. All in all I would say the first team has improved slightly while the squad has possibly gone backwards. It certainly hasn't been investment and improvement matching the ambition levels that have been set by Ashley and Keegan so far, and while we still depend on the likes of Ameobi and Smith to start matches or come off the bench to force things when we are losing it´s hard to claim we are moving forward significantly.

What's there to be happy about?

Or if he has a really good season for us (here's hoping!) it will have alerted all the other Premiership clubs and we risk losing him to the highest bidder. I am pleased we have got another reinforcement in, even though I have never heard of him before, but it does seem to be a short term move which will not do much for us structurally. A cynic would even say we have failed to get the targets we wanted and have resorted to a stop gap solution, like we did with Rossi before. Let's hope it works out well!

The question I'm asking is not what you expect us to do with the players we've got, but your expectations of the club full stop. Well, these concepts are fairly related wouldn´t you say? I would expect the club to aim for no less than European football, but expect us to finish midtable with the current squad, hency why I am disappointed with our summer transfer activity so far.

As we saw last season, coming 12th is avoiding relegation. No it isn´t.. Middle to lower bottom half is avoiding relegation. This poll is incredibly biased, as you have failed to include anywhere between 11th and 15th..

Where's the 'midtable Premiership table filler' option? It's not like the minimum this squad will achieve is a top half finish, and our luck would have to be real sour for us to be drawn into a relegation fight, although two or three long term injuries to crucial players and I wouldn´t rule it out completely..

That's it in a nutshell. No it isn't, pretty f***ing far off even. He's said countless times he would be very disappointed if there were no new signings of the required quality. He wants the best for the club he supports, as we all do. He just expresses his concerns whereas others are willing to have blind faith in Keegan's magic and Ashley's intentions for us to challenge the top 4. I respect both stances, but the realistic part in me says that we have so far failed to strengthen to the extend that we needed to and I seriously doubt that they will be able to complete the transfers on the very last day of the transfer window where they have apparently failed to do so in a number of cases up until this point. Perhaps some people just need to accept that challenging the top 4 was not an option for this season. Didn't Keegan himself say the ambition for this year was to finish 4th-8th? Ashley in his sparse interviews has also set the target to be competing for European football iirc and challenging the top 4 in the long run. Do you think that is a realistic prospect with our current squad, because I think we will be lucky to finish in the top half. And for us to want to challenge the big boys in the coming years, you would imagine we would be showing signs of moving in the right direction.

That's it in a nutshell. No it isn't, pretty fucking far off even. He's said countless times he would be very disappointed if there were no new signings of the required quality. He wants the best for the club he supports, as we all do. He just expresses his concerns whereas others are willing to have blind faith in Keegan's magic and Ashley's intentions for us to challenge the top 4. I respect both stances, but the realistic part in me says that we have so far failed to strengthen to the extend that we needed to and I seriously doubt that they will be able to complete the transfers on the very last day of the transfer window where they have apparently failed to do so in a number of cases up until this point.

Great goal Bologna to go 2-1 up vs Milan

You've got your head in the clouds if you thought the club would bring in 7 players to walk straight into the first team in one Summer. I guess that's fair enough Baggio, as getting 7 quality players in and have them play well together is a gigantic challenge, but could you please explain why we've let first team players such as Emre, Faye and Milner go when they were all still under contract? Weren't we trying to move forward this summer? For me, we should have only signed first team players to challenge those already there and let go of the dead wood. Instead we have let some first team players go, and some of the dead wood remains, notably in the striking department. It's pretty obvious the club have been looking to sell Shola, what can you do if nobody want to buy him? Keegan said at the beginning of the season he wanted 3 or 4 quality players to go straight into the first team, we've signed 2 in Coloccini and Jonas and I'll be disappointed if we don't get in another one or two of their quality, the players we've lost I don't think have been particularly good and as much as I liked Emre I think Guthrie will be more influential as he's not injured for the majority of the time. There have been clubs in for Ameobi thought.. The fact he's still here is at least partly to do with our valuation of him. If we really wanted rid, we would have got rid.

You've got your head in the clouds if you thought the club would bring in 7 players to walk straight into the first team in one Summer. I guess that's fair enough Baggio, as getting 7 quality players in and have them play well together is a gigantic challenge, but could you please explain why we've let first team players such as Emre, Faye and Milner go when they were all still under contract? Weren't we trying to move forward this summer? For me, we should have only signed first team players to challenge those already there and let go of the dead wood. Instead we have let some first team players go, and some of the dead wood remains, notably in the striking department.

Plenty of time left in the window mate..

Yep. Ameobi and Smith up front. It's the way forward. sell all of them, if we cant sell them then give them away, owen is a welsh arsewipe, Ameobi can trap a ball further than most can kick one and smith?? well i cannot describe how s**** he is! Precisely what I thought about you when I read that post. Yep. Ameobi and Smith up front. It's the way forward. sell all of them, if we can seel them then give them away, owen is a welsh arsewipe, Ameobi can trap a ball further than most can kick one and smith?? well i cannot describe how s**** he is! This man's a genius. Having almost no strikers is what the best clubs do, is it not? Or we could have flogged them and found a replacement, which we have had a whole summer transfer window to do..

Completely agree. Surely none of our fans could expect us to offer him anything more? I think many of us would expect us to offer him less or find a replacement. I am in that camp anyway, and wouldn´t be to pleased if we are losing out on and having to sell other players because we are not offering them the wages that they want, only to then go and offer one of our most injury prone players a much improved deal that would have him amongst the Premiership absolute top earners. So you would offer him less and risk letting him go? I understand your points, just want to see what you would do. I definately would. Actually, I would sell him now for a decent fee if there were any takers and we could get an up and coming replacement. I rate Owen as being well past his best. He is now a striker that will convert a good percentages of chances, but not one who will create chances out of nowhere, which I think is what we need more than anything. It´s not like Owen is still in a class of his own. 10 million will go a long way towards a replacement who will contribute at least the same to the team as Owen does, isn´t as inury prone (i.e. you can build a team around) and does not demand excessive wages. I´m thinking the likes of Defoe, Santa Cruz, Berbatov (before his transfer to Spurs), Alves, etc here, who I all rate as on par with Michael Owen at this moment in time (Owen was better in his prime, but those days are long gone). I reckon we could get somebody in that ilk and be better of on and off the pitch. Apart from the players you have mentioned, who do you think we could get who could do better than Michael Owen? I´ve already mentioned four. Do you want me to mention another dozen or so, which I easily could, until you find one that you don´t rate so you can give me some stick? It's not about the names, it's about the fact Owen is not worthy of one of the highest wages in the Premiership, not in his current form anyway. There are at least ten better forwards/strikers in the Premiership at this time. Ok fair enough, I think your wrong. I believe we would be better off keeping Owen than trying to sell him a day and half before the window closes and try to get Santa Cruz or Alves in. The other two you metnioned we have NO CHANCE in signing unless we had European football to offer. I do agree that Owen's wages are too high but I'd rather keep him. Well, that's the thing though isn't it. We have known all summer long we needed Owen to either accept a new contract or flog him and replace him. Of course he has us over a barrel now with 30 odd hours to go in the transfer market. The club hasn't handled this situation well at all imho, especially if in the end we are being forced to pay well over the odds for a player who is on the decline..

But we haven't been doing nothing have we? We've already brought in 4 good players. We've brought in two good players and two squad players and we have let 8 players go, 3 of whom could be considered first team players.. Is it not 3 first team players and one squad player or do you rate Butt higher than Guthrie I would say Emre and Milner were more viable options in midfield than Butt, as was Faye as well arguably.. Guthrie looks promising, but if we are depending on him to be our best central midfielder God help us.

But we haven't been doing nothing have we? We've already brought in 4 good players. We've brought in two good players and two squad players and we have let 8 players go, 3 of whom could be considered first team players..