Unbelievable

Thanks, there's too much wisdom in this thread to let it go to waste..

If Tottenham managed to pull it through, I would really be very envious of their position. It would seem like a rather fulfilling and exciting summer for them. Envious of the sgnings? Yes. Envious of the position there in? No. They were a top 4 team last year based on the amount of goals they scored, the problem was they conceeded too many. They haven't signed a defensive midfielder or any defenders yet so in my opinion they'll be as bad as last season. They did get Woodgate and Hutton in January and could get Corluka (which was what EricZ was saying ("IF Tottenham managed to pull it through")). All in all, their defence would look better than most and certainly ours. All they would really need is a good DM, but who's to say they're not in the market for one as well. Like it or not, but they certainly are showing some ambition this summer transfer window.. Sorry but Woodgate is hardly realiable!He will be injured more often than not!Huttons not that great either,solid but nothing great!Corluka is good though.There midfield looks very lightweight and Modric and Dos Santos are still very young and never played in the premiership before.I think Modric will be good but not so sure about Dos Santos,never was that impressed with him at Barca.Also with Robbie Keane and prob Berbatov going there fairly screwed up front Woodgate has been fairly reliable since joining Middlesbrough hasn't he? Not iron man obviously, but similar to Owen for us (we are counting very much on him to be fit as well remember). Their signings are gambles, like all signings are, but at least they cannot be accused of not aiming high. You don't need a team of wrestlers in this league; technically good footballers can be just as if not more effective as their arch rivals Arsenal have displayed for years. Also, if they lose Berbatov, do you really think they will not get a decent replacement in? There is talk of David Villa. Besides, Berbatov isn't gone yet and when he sees their ambition may well change his mind. They also still have Bent who they've paid too much for but is still a good enough striker for a team of their stature and they have plenty of players who can contribute goals from midfield (Bentley, Modric, possibly Arshavin, even Jenas (an average of 7 goals over 3 seasons, that's more than our midfield combined managed last season!)) As I said, they are probably one quality defensive midfielder away from being a top 4 team if they get these players mentioned in..

Will you grant me Aimar as well?

If Tottenham managed to pull it through, I would really be very envious of their position. It would seem like a rather fulfilling and exciting summer for them. Envious of the sgnings? Yes. Envious of the position there in? No. They were a top 4 team last year based on the amount of goals they scored, the problem was they conceeded too many. They haven't signed a defensive midfielder or any defenders yet so in my opinion they'll be as bad as last season. They did get Woodgate and Hutton in January and could get Corluka (which was what EricZ was saying ("IF Tottenham managed to pull it through")). All in all, their defence would look better than most and certainly ours. All they would really need is a good DM, but who's to say they're not in the market for one as well. Like it or not, but they certainly are showing some ambition this summer transfer window..

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/sport/3570330.Hammers_win_eight_goal_thriller_with_Town__but_Bellamy_limps_out/ If they could get Bellamy and Ashton fit for the whole season and playing next to each other they could really be deadly. That would be akin to: http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/452/22197097rq0.jpg Or akin to Viduka and Owen being fit for the whole season..

Bet you'd love that to be true. ..and why's that then? More scope for whining and complaining. Irony's in the air tonight..

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11827_3805951,00.html Good call. Look mate, it's all over reputable Dutch media. We will see. No smoke without fire. Quotes from his agent: "Rafael wants to play in Spain next season. Several clubs are interested. We will discuss next week.` Those are quotes from Van der Vaart, but I guess you'll listen to his agent over him right? I will listen to both and point out your foolishness in a couple of days time for believing a player keeping the fans of his current club quiet before moving clubs, which will undoubtedly happen.. Took a little longer than expected, but there you go: http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/es/1202740420958/noticia/ComunicadoOficial/COMUNICADO_OFICIAL_2008-08-04_20:30:35.htm

Bloody hell.. If we bid for them a while ago is it not safe to say that bid failed considering these players are not currently in our squad? Oh, and now you are rather predictably excusing me of being impatient.. I am not, still fully expecting we are going to get the players in that we need as I have said before in this very thread. However, wouldn't you say it is kind of irronic for you to start a thread about a disappointing preseason and things not looking rosey for the start of the season as you were the one preaching patience? BTW Dave, you have said before you would be critical of the club if both the first team and squad willl not be strengthened significantly before the end of the transfer window, have you not? Kevin Keegan himself has stated his ambition as finishing 4th and 8th; looks to me like there is still a lot of work to do.. With regards to negotiating for 3 months and in the end paying more than the asking fee in my book does not constitute decisive business dealing. If it does to you, allow me to ask you± do you work in government by any chance? does that mean getting a player straight away by paying way over the odds may be decisive...............but is that good ? Well, top quality players are rather unique aren't they; it's not like they are commodity and if you fail to buy one at Sainsburry's you can just go to Morrison's to get another.. If you have identified such a player (one of only 11 you can have out on the pitch representing your club) as available and attainable (and not many are in our case due to obvious reasons mentioned before) I would suggest you negotiate until a satisfactory decision is reached for all parties involved. If we fail to do so in a significant number of cases than maybe we are not offering enough to do the deals we need to do, and while others may be happy with that (not being held to ransom etc) I won't. A football club is a business, so will have to keep an eye on its cost, but just like any other business it will also have to offer its customers (us!) a good product/service or we will spend the money elsewhere, so I will refer again to my pennywise/poundfoulish statement.

Bloody hell.. If we bid for them a while ago is it not safe to say that bid failed considering these players are not currently in our squad? Oh, and now you are rather predictably excusing me of being impatient.. I am not, still fully expecting we are going to get the players in that we need as I have said before in this very thread. However, wouldn't you say it is kind of irronic for you to start a thread about a disappointing preseason and things not looking rosey for the start of the season as you were the one preaching patience? BTW Dave, you have said before you would be critical of the club if both the first team and squad willl not be strengthened significantly before the end of the transfer window, have you not? Kevin Keegan himself has stated his ambition as finishing 4th and 8th; looks to me like there is still a lot of work to do.. With regards to negotiating for 3 months and in the end paying more than the asking fee in my book does not constitute decisive business dealing. If it does to you, allow me to ask you± do you work in government by any chance?

So am I. But I would like to add that if we are looking to actually attract these players we may have to bid them a little more financially to make up for our lack of attractivity due to not playing in Europe and not looking likely to break Europe next season either. If we lose out to our targets because we are more concerned about the checkbook than about the quality of our squad it feels to me like we are being pennywise, but poundfoulish. The stock of Newcastle United has fallen over the past few seasons, and unless we bend the curb it will only become more difficult in the future to attract the players we need to make up for lost ground.. Well we'll see. As me and the 'blind hope/head in the sand/Ashleyite/optimism' crew have been saying all along. Any comments on madras' point about chasing Coloccini for three months btw? Not trying to catch you out, just wondering whether you believe it. I haven't seen it mentioned (source?), but if it is true than it may follow suit that we have also worked on other targets for months. You will say it is possible we are still working on them, and I will retort we may well be, but it is also very likely some deals (Modric? Arda? Gomis? etc) have failed because we have not been very decisive in the transfer market (unless you call negotiating for 3 months decisive?) Also, would you not say with the start of the season fast approaching many teams will be loath to let go of their best players if they don't need to, because it will be that much harder for them to attract quality replacements for the players they are letting go?

Can I hold you to that?

So am I. But I would like to add that if we are looking to actually attract these players we may have to bid them a little more financially to make up for our lack of attractivity due to not playing in Europe and not looking likely to break Europe next season either. If we lose out to our targets because we are more concerned about the checkbook than about the quality of our squad it feels to me like we are being pennywise, but poundfoulish. The stock of Newcastle United has fallen over the past few seasons, and unless we bend the curb it will only become more difficult in the future to attract the players we need to make up for lost ground..

We have a paper thin squad containing a number of notoriously unfit players, some players made from glass and a fair number of players who just don't qualify for the level we should aspire to (strangely, these are mainly the fitter ones). We've known this for months. If you believe injuries will be a valid excuse for poor results be my guest, but not for me they won't, as it has been glaringly obvious for quite a while that this squad needed some major reconstruction work done to it, not just a new layer of paint.. I am still hoping we are getting the work done that needs doing (i.e. being patient like you and others have been saying time and time again we should), but it sounds to me like the optimists themselves are starting to doubt whether the club will do what is needed and are trying to get some excuses in early. And oh, I don't think any game is a write-off before a ball is kicked. An ambitious club going places should certainly not be worried about going away to clubs that finished higher than them last season, because there shouldn't be too much pressure and with some positivity why would an upset be impossible..? on the other hand would you want to buy players in just to have players in "now" as opposed to getting the players you want and padding out the squad later. Well, if you had a list of players you had scouted and found to be suitable, would you start by approaching your first choice candidates or rather start at the bottom?

We have a paper thin squad containing a number of notoriously unfit players, some players made from glass and a fair number of players who just don't qualify for the level we should aspire to (strangely, these are mainly the fitter ones). We've known this for months. If you believe injuries will be a valid excuse for poor results be my guest, but not for me they won't, as it has been glaringly obvious for quite a while that this squad needed some major reconstruction work done to it, not just a new layer of paint.. I am still hoping we are getting the work done that needs doing (i.e. being patient like you and others have been saying time and time again we should), but it sounds to me like the optimists themselves are starting to doubt whether the club will do what is needed and are trying to get some excuses in early. And oh, I don't think any game is a write-off before a ball is kicked. An ambitious club going places should certainly not be worried about going away to clubs that finished higher than them last season, because there shouldn't be too much pressure and with some positivity why would an upset be impossible..?

It does if you haven't had one, which is kind of the point. Can't be helped but it's not going to do us any favours. Oh yeah, I agree with the original points raised in the thread, it just seems to have been taken over by mongs and doom mongers. You don't find it ironic that the very people who have been preaching patience are now the ones trying to explain why this pre-season isn't going to plan and discussing what likely effects this will have on our start of the season? The so called optimists are bracing themselves for a disappointing start of the season whilst having ridiculed others expressing their concerns when the very things they are currently expecting could have been avoided at the time by a more proactive approach by the club..

Nail on head. The irony of this thread..

For me it depends if we would get another forward in. If we sold Ameobi for next to nothing it would only mean Smith would get more pitch time unless we bring in another striker. Carroll should be loaned out again to gain experience (let's face it, if he can't get into a Championship team, he has no business being in the first team of this club yet). I would much, much rather get rid of Smith than of Ameobi, and that's saying something considering I don't rate Ameobi at all and never have done..

Excellent!

I believe your colleague to be right..

What? If they get in a good player - well done. If they manage to keep it quiet - even more well done. If they get in a good player but can't keep it quiet > if they get in an unknown or average player and can keep it quiet surely? I'd prefer they kept all our deals under wraps until they happen, whoever the player is. Looks to me like you're just fishing here. Well, you're the one who started this thread at the time: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54171.0 And yes, I am just pulling your leg.. Anyway, good signing. More of it please.

bearing in mind pompey were turned down with an £8million bid for jonas would that make his signing "high profile" or is it purely the money factor which makes it high profile ? Jonas high profile? You're having a laugh. Most people on here didn't even know who he was..

The press only got a whiff of it because the agent came out publicly to force Depor's hand by telling the story of how they'd attempted to fudge the deal. If the player is a success then they deserve all the credit in the world, just like anyone else would receive. Quite excited by this, to be honest. Lot of pressure for the lad to live up to like, if it happens. Which is exactly what I was saying when people were giving the technical team credit when they signed lesser profile players on the quiet and got complimented for it..

What? If they get in a good player - well done. If they manage to keep it quiet - even more well done. If they get in a good player but can't keep it quiet > if they get in an unknown or average player and can keep it quiet surely?

So if this Coloccini deal gets done, considering the press were all over this signing for days before it happened, does this mean no compliments go out to our technical team (or does it simply mean you can't keep high profile transfer business quiet as opposed to lower profile transfers and compliments should go to the technical players if they get the right profile of player in regardless of the way they do it..)?

In that case I would prefer Faye to be our holding midfielder instead of Butt. Personally, I think Faye is undroppable unless we get two new first team DC's, which is highly unlikely..