Parky

I think people in this thread are really making rainbow nation type knee jerk reactions to an important debate. Germany is at the center of a very fluid EU with no borders, there are literally loads of all kinds of Europeans that live here (from all over Europe) and a lot of them come here for the oppurtunities inc Russia, there are thousands of Russians in hamburg alone never mind Berlin. It will get to the point with all these extended family connections that Germany will be picking a team essentially fromt the whole of Europe if they really want to start exploiting the rules. I know you muppets can't see that yet, but I live here and I can. It will and already is beginning to destroy the fabric of national sports in a sense and the core tribalism and identititu of international football that goes with that IMO.

I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult. Btw I'm only 3 nations! As for representing another country, every situation is different. You have Ozil tonight for example, born in Germany to Turkish parents, and he represents Germany. Now by contrast you have Podolski and Klose who are Polish but raised in Germany from very young ages. Now some families that emigrate retain their culture, by only speaking their mother tongue at home for example. Now if you live in Germany but spend all your free time speaking Turkish or Polish then you may still feel a strong connection to that part of your heritage, so the idea of representing them is not entirely alien, when you consider that one of those parents may want you to represent their birth country, it's not quite as bad as is made out. You then have people who move to a country later in life and become bonded to that country, like Liedson, Deco, or Pepe of Portugal, if you qualify as a citizen of a country you can't really stop them representing that country, as they may feel a connection towards it. The problem you have is being sure of the validity of their claim, the best examples of that are Guerrero of Poland and some of the middle eastern nations with Brazilians in their side, it's sad that players will cheapen themselves by clinging to any nationality just to experience a major tournament, but to claim that a player is incapable of gaining a bond with a nation outside of the one in which they were born is slightly naive. More like immensely. You have to decide if you want NATIONAL SPORTS to be about nations or whether they are about CULTURAL PREFERANCES. You don't seem to be able to grasp this, maybe over your head or a victory for social engineering. I national sports to have players that want to represent that nation, and even if someone was born in another country I'd still feel happy they feel Norwegian enough to represent my country. I'd only be opposed the likes of Cacau and random Brazilians playing only because they're too shit to play for their country. Ok, so you think it is a cultural preferance? That's fine.

I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult. Btw I'm only 3 nations! As for representing another country, every situation is different. You have Ozil tonight for example, born in Germany to Turkish parents, and he represents Germany. Now by contrast you have Podolski and Klose who are Polish but raised in Germany from very young ages. Now some families that emigrate retain their culture, by only speaking their mother tongue at home for example. Now if you live in Germany but spend all your free time speaking Turkish or Polish then you may still feel a strong connection to that part of your heritage, so the idea of representing them is not entirely alien, when you consider that one of those parents may want you to represent their birth country, it's not quite as bad as is made out. You then have people who move to a country later in life and become bonded to that country, like Liedson, Deco, or Pepe of Portugal, if you qualify as a citizen of a country you can't really stop them representing that country, as they may feel a connection towards it. The problem you have is being sure of the validity of their claim, the best examples of that are Guerrero of Poland and some of the middle eastern nations with Brazilians in their side, it's sad that players will cheapen themselves by clinging to any nationality just to experience a major tournament, but to claim that a player is incapable of gaining a bond with a nation outside of the one in which they were born is slightly naive. More like immensely. You have to decide if you want NATIONAL SPORTS to be about nations or whether they are about CULTURAL PREFERANCES. You don't seem to be able to grasp this, maybe over your head or a victory for social engineering.

I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult. Btw I'm only 3 nations! As for representing another country, every situation is different. You have Ozil tonight for example, born in Germany to Turkish parents, and he represents Germany. Now by contrast you have Podolski and Klose who are Polish but raised in Germany from very young ages. Now some families that emigrate retain their culture, by only speaking their mother tongue at home for example. Now if you live in Germany but spend all your free time speaking Turkish or Polish then you may still feel a strong connection to that part of your heritage, so the idea of representing them is not entirely alien, when you consider that one of those parents may want you to represent their birth country, it's not quite as bad as is made out. You then have people who move to a country later in life and become bonded to that country, like Liedson, Deco, or Pepe of Portugal, if you qualify as a citizen of a country you can't really stop them representing that country, as they may feel a connection towards it. The problem you have is being sure of the validity of their claim, the best examples of that are Guerrero of Poland and some of the middle eastern nations with Brazilians in their side, it's sad that players will cheapen themselves by clinging to any nationality just to experience a major tournament, but to claim that a player is incapable of gaining a bond with a nation outside of the one in which they were born is slightly naive. The debate isn't about the players and what flavour of pampers they choose (this is where kez is a bit lost) it is about national federations taking advantage and IMO Germany shows all the initial signs of tinkering with the system.

Debate? It's just Parky being racist and throwing random insults around rather than trying to back up his viewpoint. Fail to see the racism tbh Might be the wrong word. Whatever it's called when you don't want anyone born anywhere else than your country representing your country, in whatever way. As long as they qualify through heritage it shouldn't matter where you are born.Cacau clearly has no Deutsch claret in him. As I've said, I'm against changing your nationality by the (in most countries) five year rule. I'm just not against people that have lived in a country for their entire life not being able to represent the country they want to, love, and identify themselves with because they weren't born there. Cacau and Tulio are the 2 worst offences imo. Agreed. I don't think Cacau should be playing for Germany, it is actually the one that I started arguing about with some Germans earlier. As I've said again and again, I agree with you regarding adults changing their passports being wrong. I don't agree with forcing people who've lived in a country their entire life, and identify with said country and feel like a citizen of that country being forced to represent a country they don't have any feelings for just because they were born there. Mario Gomez holds dual citizenship his father is Spanish and Jerome Boeteng holds two passports as well. I'm just questioning how far all this can go if we let Germany carry on like this. ....yeah and the West Indies didn't want over rates being introduced. Night night.

Debate? It's just Parky being racist and throwing random insults around rather than trying to back up his viewpoint. Fail to see the racism tbh Might be the wrong word. Whatever it's called when you don't want anyone born anywhere else than your country representing your country, in whatever way. Do you understand the the differece in the dialectic of what we call national sports ie tribal and cultural preferance?? Do you understand free choice? Between what? Capitalism and Capitalism...? To get to choose the country you want to represent rather than being forced to represent a country you don't want to? It's not a free choice though is it...It's people being drawn to where they can have a better life. I agree with you in the sense that if someone is born and moves say under the age of 3 to somewhere, it isn't really an issue. But technically you'll have to then say it is a cultural rather than a tribal imperative. See what I mean?

Debate? It's just Parky being racist and throwing random insults around rather than trying to back up his viewpoint. Fail to see the racism tbh Might be the wrong word. Whatever it's called when you don't want anyone born anywhere else than your country representing your country, in whatever way. As long as they qualify through heritage it shouldn't matter where you are born.Cacau clearly has no Deutsch claret in him. As I've said, I'm against changing your nationality by the (in most countries) five year rule. I'm just not against people that have lived in a country for their entire life not being able to represent the country they want to, love, and identify themselves with because they weren't born there. Cacau and Tulio are the 2 worst offences imo. Agreed. I don't think Cacau should be playing for Germany, it is actually the one that I started arguing about with some Germans earlier.

Now that's efficiency for you. Ends all debates about how German he is tbh. Ah..... '39,a big year for the Germans.And the Polish too for that matter. ha ha

Debate? It's just Parky being racist and throwing random insults around rather than trying to back up his viewpoint. Fail to see the racism tbh Might be the wrong word. Whatever it's called when you don't want anyone born anywhere else than your country representing your country, in whatever way. Do you understand the the differece in the dialectic of what we call national sports ie tribal and cultural preferance?? Do you understand free choice? Between what? Capitalism and Capitalism...?

Debate? It's just Parky being racist and throwing random insults around rather than trying to back up his viewpoint. How is it racist giving smaller african nations and former colonies a better chance at having stronger squads? Works both ways around, though (cf Boatengs). Some players with more than one option go for the wealthy land of immigration, others for the ancestral homeland. I'd rather they went for the latter. Better for the sport in the long term. Only an opinion like, save the crucifix for Lampard when he misses that pen.

Debate? It's just Parky being racist and throwing random insults around rather than trying to back up his viewpoint. Fail to see the racism tbh Might be the wrong word. Whatever it's called when you don't want anyone born anywhere else than your country representing your country, in whatever way. Do you understand the the differece in the dialectic of what we call national sports ie tribal and cultural preferance??

Debate? It's just Parky being racist and throwing random insults around rather than trying to back up his viewpoint. How is it racist giving smaller african nations and former colonies a better chance at having stronger squads? You've got the hump cause the debate is bigger than your silly intellectual herd mentality.

Which ones?

Aye but at the time Guadeloupe and New Caledonia weren't allowed into FIFA, being technically regions of a country rather than seperate nations alltogether. Didn't know that but anyway if you give the Germans an inch..... As a sign of Germany becoming more comfortable as a multicultural society, it is most definitely A Good Thing. Your getting this debate mixed up in your head with eye candy. That made absolutely fuck all sense. Predictive programming.

If your folks were Swedes? Then I'd possibly like to have the choice of representing their heritage, but also the choice to represent my country. Why don't we just give up on it all and have a big European side and we can play a Mars 11. ffs! Rather that than what you are suggesting. What am I suggesting? This ain't a japanese video game.

Aye but at the time Guadeloupe and New Caledonia weren't allowed into FIFA, being technically regions of a country rather than seperate nations alltogether. Didn't know that but anyway if you give the Germans an inch..... ...and they will take a mile blah blah. I just don't see the problem with the German team though. It's only Cacau that annoys me because he's playing for Germany as he wasn't good enough for Brazil. The rest of them are as German as the German born players. When players start being recruited late in life to gain an advantage that's when it becomes wrong, for example Qatar tried to pay one of their African players in their league a hefty amount of money to change his passport. Thankfully he had the honour to turn it down and he played for Kenya instead, but then there's South Americans there who see it as a new oppurtunity. You don't know the Germans they have scouts by hospital maternity beds all over Eurpe as we speak.

If your folks were Swedes? Then I'd possibly like to have the choice of representing their heritage, but also the choice to represent my country. Why don't we just give up on it all and have a big European side and we can play a Mars 11. ffs!

Aye but at the time Guadeloupe and New Caledonia weren't allowed into FIFA, being technically regions of a country rather than seperate nations alltogether. Didn't know that but anyway if you give the Germans an inch..... As a sign of Germany becoming more comfortable as a multicultural society, it is most definitely A Good Thing. Your getting this debate mixed up in your head with eye candy.

Nobody is really intersted who plays for Norway and Sweden mate.

Yeah but most of those Algerians born in france will likely have two Algerian parents who only moved to France later in their lives. They have all likely been raised at home in a completely Algerian culture. Good point. Yeah but most of those Algerians born in france will likely have two Algerian parents who only moved to France later in their lives. They have all likely been raised at home in a completely Algerian culture. Good point. That is what I'm trying to work out myself, should football represent a cultural precedent or a phisical precedent ie where you are born. I for one would like to see stronger African teams and the abiltiy of those federations to keep players interested to play for African sides.

Aye but at the time Guadeloupe and New Caledonia weren't allowed into FIFA, being technically regions of a country rather than seperate nations alltogether. Didn't know that but anyway if you give the Germans an inch.....

I don't really give a shit where people are born, if they've spent almost all their life, or most of their life, in a country other than the one they happened to be born in, they should be able to represent that country because that's where they're from, even if they were born somewhere else. (Though I do only think this should apply until you reach a certain age, like you have to have settled in a country before you were 8 or 10 or something to be able to represent their football team. I don't like the country swapping going on when people have just lived in a country for five years as an adult.) Yeah but your from one of those non-countries so you can never understand. I personally would stick to a birth rule. Man, one of the best things the Greens managed to get through while they were in coalition was to change the German citizenship law so it was finally no longer based on "blood". I don't think Germany should be allowed to recruit promising kids from Poland, Czech, Russia etc. Which if they really wanted to push it they could the way the rules are now. They've been living in Germany since before they became footballers, that's doesn't seem to me like "recruiting". They feel German, they are German, of course they should represent Germany. We should have had Giggs in that case and now Bale and why not those who have played in the Pl for 10 years cause they qualify as well.....You see it starts to make a mockery. Because that's different. I can't believe you don't see where having lived in a country your entire life, but not having been born there, is different to having moved to a country as an adult and then changing your nationality after five years, the latter I too am not for. I'm thinking of the sport not winning votes for New Labour etc... It's an archaic and outdated way of thinking that you're bound by blood to a nation you may very well only have been in a few days, rather than getting to represent the country you've lived in your whole life, loved, and paid your taxes to. Nothing to do with blood is it. The rules need simplifying to stop the continuous and neverending slight advantages the bigger nations have, whether it is money, talent drain or facilities. I'm thinking of the smaller nations that habitually lose players or have players that want to qualify for a bigger nation if at all possible.

So, there is the other angle of the Dutch and French players born in former colonies....They should be made to play for the colony if they were born there, it makes if fairer and smaller nations become more competitive.

I don't really give a shit where people are born, if they've spent almost all their life, or most of their life, in a country other than the one they happened to be born in, they should be able to represent that country because that's where they're from, even if they were born somewhere else. (Though I do only think this should apply until you reach a certain age, like you have to have settled in a country before you were 8 or 10 or something to be able to represent their football team. I don't like the country swapping going on when people have just lived in a country for five years as an adult.) Yeah but your from one of those non-countries so you can never understand. I personally would stick to a birth rule. Man, one of the best things the Greens managed to get through while they were in coalition was to change the German citizenship law so it was finally no longer based on "blood". I don't think Germany should be allowed to recruit promising kids from Poland, Czech, Russia etc. Which if they really wanted to push it they could the way the rules are now. They've been living in Germany since before they became footballers, that's doesn't seem to me like "recruiting". They feel German, they are German, of course they should represent Germany. We should have had Giggs in that case and now Bale and why not those who have played in the Pl for 10 years cause they qualify as well.....You see it starts to make a mockery. Because that's different. I can't believe you don't see where having lived in a country your entire life, but not having been born there, is different to having moved to a country as an adult and then changing your nationality after five years, the latter I too am not for. I'm thinking of the sport not winning votes for New Labour etc...

Hence the rules should be simple and clear. Born in...