KaKa

14 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

You could be right. I suppose what this conversation confirms is that there's a definite loss of confidence in Eddie from me, given some of the things we've witnessed this season. I remember under Rafa, I just trusted absolutely in everything he did because he consistently made silk purses out of piles of shit and seemed to have a tactical answer for everything. Last season I felt the same about Eddie, but that confidence has definitely eroded a bit. Hopefully it comes back next season.

Rafa by nature is a more structured, rigid and defensive minded manager, which is an approach that likely would indeed have worked better to grind out results with lesser quality players available.

Howe more wants to pressure the opposition and take things to them by nature, and is seemingly looking for solutions to the current situation that still incorporates some of that, rather than consolidating completely. 

Maybe Howe eventually incorporates more of a defensive setup during these kind of moments or comes up with some other approach, as he does continuously look to grow, I'm just fine with letting him work through it.

9 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

It all sounds so simple.

When Bruce was stinking at Newcastle why didn't he just change setting?

When Pardew was stinking at Newcastle why didn't he just change setting?

When Kinnear was stinking at Newcastle why didn't he just change setting?

 

Why do we criticise managers ever? Being a manager is not easy!

 

By the way I wouldn't want Mourinho near our club. He's way past his prime.

Ultimately every fan base complains about their manager's decision making and team selections.

And so ultimately, what is the manager's ethos, how do they handle themselves, what are their signings like, how do the players respond to them, are they ultimately worth getting behind?

I just don't understand how anyone is uncertain on Howe already, and making out he's not up to it, due to his first tough period at the club under difficult circumstances. It is baffling.

5 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Perhaps they couldn't, and that ultimately led to their demises. Maybe they reached the limit of what they were capable of with the groups of players they had.

Maybe the same is true of Eddie. Who knows?!  Maybe he is literally a one setting manager.

 

What you've described in your post is the various different ways we've tried to implement setting 1. Even when we were down to bare bones, we still had the pace and the players available to play an effective counter-attacking style, which we didn't do even once. Instead, we further rinsed the players we had trying to play high intensity front foot for 90 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is though we don't know the extent to which these alternative approaches have been explored in training, and whether the current players available were deemed to be better off persisting with the current approach, with the more minor tweaks Howe has tried here and there.

There is no certainty that a change in formation, or a more defensive and counter attacking approach suddenly cures all ills.

I think some of us just have more faith in the manager and his decision making and are fine to let him work through this tough period, while others seemingly see it as evidence he is not up to the task, which in my opinion is incredibly shortsighted.

2 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

 

Liverpool had spells like this last season, with nowhere near the issues we've had. Should they have sacked Klopp off? 

How quickly everyone forgets man. It's just sad really.

Making out even the top managers don't have ropey moments.

22 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

You're probably spot on with that, but isn't it the manager's job to find a way around it? For me, some of the criticism of Eddie is way over the top, but some of it is warranted.

 

One of the frustrating narratives is that he can't do anything about it when it's literally his job to do something about it. Who is it setting the midfield up to push so far forward? Who is it deciding not to play one of the midfielders deeper? Who is it not experimenting with different formations, shapes and systems to negate our weaknesses? Who persisted with probably the slowest outfield player in the PL game after game, when he was getting torn to shreds after the pedestrian midfield was bypassed?

 

You can't say it's down to the midfield and absolve Eddie of blame, when he sets up the midfield. It's like we're stuck on one setting and people are defending Eddie by saying we don't have the right players to play that setting, so what do you expect?! Honestly, I expect us to be able to change setting. 

 

 

 

It all sounds so simple.

So when Mourinho was stinking at Spurs why didn't he just change setting? 

When Conte was stinking at Spurs why couldn't he just change setting?

These are the elite managers we should be after right? Why couldn't they both just figure it out, even without an injury crisis?

12 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

I'm sure you could make an argument for every team in the league to have strengths against us. Does Luton and Bournemouth not have weaknesses of their own? Weaknesses is something that you try to compensate for tactically. For example, our defence was struggling with pace against Luton while Livra was on the bench.

 

Now that the fatiguer factor is gone, we have to find new excuses it seems.

 

 

 

Yeah, it's all just excuses. Fine. 

3 minutes ago, Rod said:

"He is probably a better manager than Bruce"!  Words fail me.

I'm completely floored man ... I mean, how can anyone see things this way. What is the point of even following the sport? This is just sad.

12 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Why is Bruce even relevant?

I can't believe the correlation.

Bruce had ten men in our box the whole game as sitting ducks. Just waiting to concede all game after which we were done. Just because this meant we didn't concede as much playing this way, even though we then lost much more because we often had no chance of getting a result, they actually think this means Bruce was doing better!

Words fail me man. 

21 minutes ago, Erikse said:

In the same way that Arsenal just has better player than us, the 11 players we played against Luton and Bournemouth at home were certainly of much higher quality than that of the opposition, regardless of our injuries. We need an alternative gameplan for sitautions where we can't do plan A anymore, because right now, we are underperforming with the quality of players that we have. Bournemouth and Luton would only dream of having players like Botman, Bruno and Trippier. A Miley and a Dubravka doesn't change the fact that our 11 was much better, they aren't THAT bad.

Very simplistic way of looking at the quality of players.

Luton and Bournemouth have a number of dynamic attackers with pace and power.

Our defence is currently being exposed due to the current midfield which lacks dynamism and recovery speed.

This allowed both Luton and Bournemouth to capitalise against our defence which is not the quickest, and at the same time the goalkeeper is not good coming off his line as a sweeper, like Pope is.

6 minutes ago, High Five o said:

I think many people “feel” that Nickerson etc are pushing for many of the signings abroad, and Howe wants more of the safe PL options. It might be a wrong assumption but since this is a forum people should be able to vent their thoughts. 
 

Some obviously take this as criticism of Howe, while it’s not. Most want a balance approach. 
 

Honestly do not remember any panic re Gordon, some where very happy, myself included and some where skeptical, but I think that is a fair representation of normal football fans.

Well it is a wrong assumption because it isn't based on anything tangible, and so it's pretty strange to be honest.

After signing Bruno, Isak, Botman and Tonali, Howe went into detail on these players and how highly he rated their abilities as prospects.

It in no way sounds like these are players he needed convincing on. This whole thing is so weird.

Oh, and maybe go back and read the Gordon thread back once we went in for him. It's all in there.

4 hours ago, High Five o said:

I agree, and I am happy with the transfers so far and I am really happy with Howe as a manager. But clearly it has been a team effort where DOF  and our scouting team have been having their say. 
 

Howe to my eyes has, as I mentioned in my original post a preference of PL experience. I just hope now that we are without a DOF we keep on our current path and not shift to an even more PL focused approach.

 

 

 

 

 

 

People 'feel' like Howe is mainly after Prem players because they over react to any links to the likes of McTominay and Gallagher and don't give the same level of credence to the likes of Kephrem Thuram, Manu Kone, Emerson, Koopmeiners, Wirtz, Amadou Diarra, Youssouf Fofana and other similar midfielders abroad we have been linked to continuously.

This narrative is mainly due to this state of panic over players that people have decided are 'shit'. Similar to the panic over the Gordon signing who was deemed 'shit' at the time.

8 minutes ago, Bellis80 said:

Agree with that. But they didn’t get any better in the five years they were there. When he needed to sign Premier League players he struggled.

Apart from the fact he established them as a Premier League club. 

1 minute ago, Danh1 said:

I remember Hope or Caulkin saying Howe wasn’t convinced about signing Bruno at the time. He definitely refused Paqueta too.

 

Obviously that doesn’t tell a full story about Howe’s taste in players. 

What was mentioned at the time regarding Bruno was the concern on how quickly he would settle due to the precarious position the club were in as we were in the bottom three. That was it. Nothing to do with uncertainty of his quality.

5 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Because there's a narrative that Eddie only likes 'big, fast, can run' types.

A narrative easily dispelled once you actually look at the signings he has made for the club.

It's so ridiculous, honestly.

5 minutes ago, 54 said:

That headline is clickbait at its finest like, not once does Douglas mention that Howe wants a bigger role in recruitment

 

Its actually a positive article like, how anyone can read that and go "For fuck sake" is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no, all that makes me so mad  

That sounds really good. Very promising.

Just a reminder that while other teams and their managers were unsure Howe was certain enough to sign both Bruno and Isak for us, two of the most technically gifted players we've seen at the club in a long while. Botman again, is a technically gifted centre back. Even Gordon has shown he is far more than just a pace merchant as some on here labelled him when we went for him. Tonali will prove to be another once he comes into the team.

This narrative that Howe just goes for physical/work rate only players is nonsense. Most of the players that we have in that sort of mould were here before he joined and he has just made good use of them.

Seems Nickson is highly experienced and has a substantial database of players and reports on them from what has been put out there. He was also involved in travelling to meet with players before tying up deals. It might be due to his stature we are not looking for a recruitment specialist but more of a technical director?

Howe and Nickson seemed to work well regarding recruitment early on, with support from both Mehrad and Amanda in tying up deals. Might be we're leaning more into that going forward due to the early success.

11 minutes ago, midds said:

Fuck off

Leao just scored an absolute banger.

AC Milan Vs Atalanta just kicked off. Should be a really good game. Number of players we've been linked with.

Just now, Sempiternal said:

I genuinely am loathe to credit Klopp, but it’s undeniable how great a manager he is. They were missing a lot of big players and bringing on kids. Really impressive 

Yeah, have to give him credit.

Having said that they're academy is looking pretty good. Amazing they had that many youngsters that could even be options.

Their youngsters look at the very least really composed and good technically too.

Chelsea are delightfully embarrassing man.

Pochettino killed off the game with the introduction of Mudryk and Madueke, who were both so poor.

Can't imagine what this place would have been like if we had lost to such a depleted Liverpool team in a final.

No Salah, Nunez, Jota, Szoboszlai, Trent or Alisson.

My God ...

14 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Id love for the genius know it Alls here who run a business to explain what they’d do to keep up with their business plan when their top 4-5 people are not able to work. But no no no it’s Howe ball and ashworth and all this other fucking utter stupid nonsense. 

Even Arsenal fans weren't this over the top when Arteta was struggling to get 4th with a far higher quality squad, and while spending a lot of money.

It's literally one season after getting us Champions League against all odds, and all this noise.

It's pretty disgraceful, but if this is what the fan base at large ends up being then so be it. They will no doubt learn the hard way, and get what they deserve.

13 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Not the time to be sarcastic. But I know you’re one who supports Howe mate.  My comment wasn’t meant for you bro. 

Ah, okay. Thought you were replying to my post 

6 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

This 'signing players for Eddie's system' stuff is a load of bollocks, right?

 

We've signed some absolute class. Trippier, Bruno, Isak, Tonali etc. and others aren't one dimensional footballers. The more future signings like Tino and Hall are definitely technical players as well.

 

Most of the hard-working, physical but lacking in technique ones were, shock horror, here when we were a relegation-battling side.

Let's not let facts get in the way of fantasy.