Happy Face

This final paragraph kind of hints at the alternative to Ashley's strategy, which is a speculate-to-accumulate policy of forking out for established players in the hope that you can then recoup the outlay by success on the field. Aside from the fact that we have Leeds as an example of what can happen with a run of bad results, is this a strategy that can work in the present climate ? With the gap between the top four and the rest being so large, and the huge cost, in fees and wages, of attracting the best players to a non-Champions League team, you could easily end up spending £50 million and end up with a team that's in the relegation zone. Even a few years ago, it was a risky strategy, but now it seems completely unrealistic. I get bored of Leeds being trotted out as a cautionary tale to everyone in the league. One example of a club that speculated and failed....but let's not forget they are still living to tell the tale. "Doing a Leeds" isn't the end of a club. It's highly likely they'll be in the same division as us next year ffs, even with all our frugality. What we did in the 90's shows that speculation works. The same as Villa are doing now. Look at the bottom five.... Newcastle Portsmouth Blackburn Middlesbrough West Brom What have they got in common? None of them have a net spend of more than £6m over the past two years. Look at the next nine up... West Ham Man City Wigan Fulham Bolton Tottenham Sunderland Hull Stoke Only Bolton and Wigan have managed to get in this position with a net spend less than £10m in 2 years. In football, the speculators DO accumulate. Current league position is dependent on spend over the previous 2 years? Even if the league table continues to reflect those positions at the end of the season, the myriad of interconnecting factors that determine league position are far more complex than just something as simplistic as that. We should have spent more money in January, you dont need a statistical fallacy to persaude anyone of that. Yeah, I've not done a thesis on it, found the Spearman's rank correlation coefficient or owt. Interesting trend though, no? And I did 2 years, because that's how long Wor Mike has been here. In that it tells us we needed to spend more money in January? We didnt really need it to know that. bobyule did. He said we could easily do a Leeds if we spent more. I was just pointing out Leeds are the exception. Not the rule. I'm sure there's another club that spent a load of money on players, had a brief flirtation with the Champions League some time ago, and is now struggling as a result of overstretching themselves in the attempt to "speculate to accumulate". What are they called again? It's on the tip of my tongue. Begins with an "N"... Not that brief. We were in Europe 8 years out of ten before Big Mike arrived. They managed a couple of years.

This final paragraph kind of hints at the alternative to Ashley's strategy, which is a speculate-to-accumulate policy of forking out for established players in the hope that you can then recoup the outlay by success on the field. Aside from the fact that we have Leeds as an example of what can happen with a run of bad results, is this a strategy that can work in the present climate ? With the gap between the top four and the rest being so large, and the huge cost, in fees and wages, of attracting the best players to a non-Champions League team, you could easily end up spending £50 million and end up with a team that's in the relegation zone. Even a few years ago, it was a risky strategy, but now it seems completely unrealistic. I get bored of Leeds being trotted out as a cautionary tale to everyone in the league. One example of a club that speculated and failed....but let's not forget they are still living to tell the tale. "Doing a Leeds" isn't the end of a club. It's highly likely they'll be in the same division as us next year ffs, even with all our frugality. What we did in the 90's shows that speculation works. The same as Villa are doing now. Look at the bottom five.... Newcastle Portsmouth Blackburn Middlesbrough West Brom What have they got in common? None of them have a net spend of more than £6m over the past two years. Look at the next nine up... West Ham Man City Wigan Fulham Bolton Tottenham Sunderland Hull Stoke Only Bolton and Wigan have managed to get in this position with a net spend less than £10m in 2 years. In football, the speculators DO accumulate. Current league position is dependent on spend over the previous 2 years? Even if the league table continues to reflect those positions at the end of the season, the myriad of interconnecting factors that determine league position are far more complex than just something as simplistic as that. We should have spent more money in January, you dont need a statistical fallacy to persaude anyone of that. Yeah, I've not done a thesis on it, found the Spearman's rank correlation coefficient or owt. Interesting trend though, no? And I did 2 years, because that's how long Wor Mike has been here. In that it tells us we needed to spend more money in January? We didnt really need it to know that. bobyule did. He said we could easily do a Leeds if we spent more. I was just pointing out Leeds are the exception. Not the rule.

This final paragraph kind of hints at the alternative to Ashley's strategy, which is a speculate-to-accumulate policy of forking out for established players in the hope that you can then recoup the outlay by success on the field. Aside from the fact that we have Leeds as an example of what can happen with a run of bad results, is this a strategy that can work in the present climate ? With the gap between the top four and the rest being so large, and the huge cost, in fees and wages, of attracting the best players to a non-Champions League team, you could easily end up spending £50 million and end up with a team that's in the relegation zone. Even a few years ago, it was a risky strategy, but now it seems completely unrealistic. I get bored of Leeds being trotted out as a cautionary tale to everyone in the league. One example of a club that speculated and failed....but let's not forget they are still living to tell the tale. "Doing a Leeds" isn't the end of a club. It's highly likely they'll be in the same division as us next year ffs, even with all our frugality. What we did in the 90's shows that speculation works. The same as Villa are doing now. Look at the bottom five.... Newcastle Portsmouth Blackburn Middlesbrough West Brom What have they got in common? None of them have a net spend of more than £6m over the past two years. Look at the next nine up... West Ham Man City Wigan Fulham Bolton Tottenham Sunderland Hull Stoke Only Bolton and Wigan have managed to get in this position with a net spend less than £10m in 2 years. In football, the speculators DO accumulate. Current league position is dependent on spend over the previous 2 years? Even if the league table continues to reflect those positions at the end of the season, the myriad of interconnecting factors that determine league position are far more complex than just something as simplistic as that. We should have spent more money in January, you dont need a statistical fallacy to persaude anyone of that. Yeah, I've not done a thesis on it, found the Spearman's rank correlation coefficient or owt. Interesting trend though, no? And I did 2 years, because that's how long Wor Mike has been here.

This final paragraph kind of hints at the alternative to Ashley's strategy, which is a speculate-to-accumulate policy of forking out for established players in the hope that you can then recoup the outlay by success on the field. Aside from the fact that we have Leeds as an example of what can happen with a run of bad results, is this a strategy that can work in the present climate ? With the gap between the top four and the rest being so large, and the huge cost, in fees and wages, of attracting the best players to a non-Champions League team, you could easily end up spending £50 million and end up with a team that's in the relegation zone. Even a few years ago, it was a risky strategy, but now it seems completely unrealistic. I get bored of Leeds being trotted out as a cautionary tale to everyone in the league. One example of a club that speculated and failed....but let's not forget they are still living to tell the tale. "Doing a Leeds" isn't the end of a club. It's highly likely they'll be in the same division as us next year ffs, even with all our frugality. What we did in the 90's shows that speculation works. The same as Villa are doing now. Look at the bottom five.... Newcastle Portsmouth Blackburn Middlesbrough West Brom What have they got in common? None of them have a net spend of more than £6m over the past two years. Look at the next nine up... West Ham Man City Wigan Fulham Bolton Tottenham Sunderland Hull Stoke Only Bolton and Wigan have managed to get in this position with a net spend less than £10m in 2 years. In football, the speculators DO accumulate. Why aren't we 5th in the table then seeing as we are the fifth biggest spenders on footballer salaries? Even without any handy facts and figures at hand, I know before Ashley came here we weren't getting anything like the results our spending warranted. Please, no one mention X number of seasons in Europe, this isn't a pissing contest, let's just debate with some honesty about whether we were performing well considering money outlaid. Then we can compare it with what's happening now. Same reason Leeds went down. Spending guarantees nothing. Just improves your chances dramatically. ....and we were never in the bottom five, one point off relegation....

This doesn't even make sense, you can only come into the first team if you have first team experience? How are you supposed to get first team experience if you aren't allowed to step up? I thought the whole point was the 'reserves' come into the first team to prove themselves. The plan we've been sold is that talented youth will replace expensive flops. My point is that none of the youth brought in over the last 2 years are anywhere near ready to step up to be first team regulars. The only two that have made the starting 11 this year made their first team debut's almost 3 years back. And they've only managed a few starts between them. Is Bassong not ready? Bassong is a godlike blessing. There's no more of him.

This doesn't even make sense, you can only come into the first team if you have first team experience? How are you supposed to get first team experience if you aren't allowed to step up? I thought the whole point was the 'reserves' come into the first team to prove themselves. The plan we've been sold is that talented youth will replace expensive flops. My point is that none of the youth brought in over the last 2 years are anywhere near ready to step up to be first team regulars. The only two that have made the starting 11 this year made their first team debut's almost 3 years back. And they've only managed a few starts between them.

This final paragraph kind of hints at the alternative to Ashley's strategy, which is a speculate-to-accumulate policy of forking out for established players in the hope that you can then recoup the outlay by success on the field. Aside from the fact that we have Leeds as an example of what can happen with a run of bad results, is this a strategy that can work in the present climate ? With the gap between the top four and the rest being so large, and the huge cost, in fees and wages, of attracting the best players to a non-Champions League team, you could easily end up spending £50 million and end up with a team that's in the relegation zone. Even a few years ago, it was a risky strategy, but now it seems completely unrealistic. I get bored of Leeds being trotted out as a cautionary tale to everyone in the league. One example of a club that speculated and failed....but let's not forget they are still living to tell the tale. "Doing a Leeds" isn't the end of a club. It's highly likely they'll be in the same division as us next year ffs, even with all our frugality. What we did in the 90's shows that speculation works. The same as Villa are doing now. Look at the bottom five.... Newcastle Portsmouth Blackburn Middlesbrough West Brom What have they got in common? None of them have a net spend of more than £6m over the past two years. Look at the next nine up... West Ham Man City Wigan Fulham Bolton Tottenham Sunderland Hull Stoke Only Bolton and Wigan have managed to get in this position with a net spend less than £10m in 2 years. In football, the speculators DO accumulate.

But we were told the money was there to spend in January. We had bids totalling £40m+ knocked back according to Llambias. And if there's an expensive player the manager doesn't think is good enough....why can't he be loaned out? Even on a percentage of his wage we'd save money. It's a step not taken with an underperforming first teamer since Keegan loaned out Rozenhal and Ameobi. With the exception of Duff & Owen, our high-earning low-performing players have also been crocked most of the season too. Who is going to pay Alan Smith's £60000 per week wages knowing that he hasn't played in a competitive game for 8-9 months? Who is going to give Viduka his £80000 per week wages knowing that he's never more than 10 minutes away from yet another niggling injury that'll keep him out for the season? If it weren't for the transfer windows we may have been able to shift some of the garbage out on loan but that's a whole different thread. Frightening innit. The squad already lacks the depth needed. We're just letting the contracts run out on Cacapa, Owen and Viduka. Gonna keep paying Duff, Geremi, Smith and Xisco to play in the reserves because no-one wants them. Carroll and Edgar are the only "reserves" with first ream experience so there's no-one to come through and replace them. ...and we're spending fuck all because there's a credit crunch.

But we were told the money was there to spend in January. We had bids totalling £40m+ knocked back according to Llambias. And if there's an expensive player the manager doesn't think is good enough....why can't he be loaned out? Even on a percentage of his wage we'd save money. It's a step not taken with an underperforming first teamer since Keegan loaned out Rozenhal and Ameobi. look i'm not tackling their fuckin lies, no point as for loaning you can't make clubs take players, who'd take duff or smith on even a fraction of their wages? jesus...at least rozenthal was considered a decent defender and ameobi had to drop a division and was shite...wonder why no-ones been back for him since? It was more rhetorical than a dig mate. Ameobi is the best we have avaiable at the moment so I wouldn't want to lose him now

The more you criticise the ownership of the club the more I become convinced what a set of twats the NUSC are, last week you were trying to convince us that you werent anti-ashley, yet every post is...Anti-ashley. Im not pro-ashley im pro-NUFC and moaning about ashleys running of the club isnt goint to achieve anything. Your a t*** and so are the rest of NUSC. What has this got to do with the NUSC? Let's not derail. I'm pro-NUFC. You think endorsing Ashleys actions is going to achieve something? You have been using this forum to promote NUSC therefore your comments are indicative of NUSC comments, on one hand your saying your not anti ashley on the other your using every thread to criticism him, I couldnt give a f*** who owns the club, I just care about the team out on the pitch that i pay to watch. Have i endorsed him? If i did what would it mean? f*** all. Have i set up an anti ashley supporters club and called it NUSC? and if i did what would it achieve? f*** all. Does Happy Face = N.U.S.C? I thought Teasdale was N.U.S.C I originally though Mick Martin (True Faith) was N.U.S.C At one point Shields was N.U.S.C Who is the N.U.S.C? They're all on the website. Pompus self appointed voices of the fans. Bring back the bedsheet brigade is what I say. NU$C my arse! I am? Which website is that? News to me. How, may I ask, does any organisation get created without someone appointing themselves to get it off the ground in the first place? There'll be a vote on who should be doing what. Why don't you put yourself up for nomination and become the voice of reason on the committee? The NU$C website! How can it be news to you if you're a cheap plastic badge, card carrying, keyring holding boycoutter??? What do you mean I'm "on the website"? Do you have a link please? Boycoutter? I've turned out for every game this season man. Including being one of the meagre 20,000 at the Spurs cup game. Wind your neck in.

But we were told the money was there to spend in January. We had bids totalling £40m+ knocked back according to Llambias. And if there's an expensive player the manager doesn't think is good enough....why can't he be loaned out? Even on a percentage of his wage we'd save money. It's a step not taken with an underperforming first teamer since Keegan loaned out Rozenhal and Ameobi.

agreed on the analogy mind question for you HF - what would you have MA do? honestly, taking a balanced view of things as you seem able to do I was perfectly happy with Ashley, even after Keegan walked I stood up for him, so I think I am balanced. I thought he might have been petulant and was at it again....but what's happened since has convinced me otherwise (the payout will confirm it). There's not much I'd need to give Ashley another chance... 1. The least controversial. Joe Kinnear has to go. 5 wins in 24 games is worse than Souness. Worse than Roeder. Worse than Allardyce. Worse than Ozzie Ardiles. Worse than Richard Dinnis, Bill Mcgarry or Jack Charlton. He has no management pedigree whatsoever and has proven a complete flop. Offering him a new contract is insane. It wouldn't be expensive to get rid of him on his current short term deal and no matter how far this club sinks, we can attract better. It doesn't need to be a top foreign man either. The lower leagues have a lot better. Why won't it happen? Because he's a yes man. They love him at the club because he tows the line, backs them in the press and has no qualms about getting on with whichever players they give him/leave him with. 2. Give the new man a budget and autonomy. That's not to say he has to get the keys to the safe and enjoy himself. But a Premier league football club needs to keep buying players year after year. Whatever money that comes in from selling players should go straight back to the manager to spend on his first team targets. Also a percentage of the TV money, gate receipts, commercial income etc. needs to go on players that will maintain that level of income. Isn't it worth investing say £10M to guarantee £20M of TV money. Very simplistic view I know but basically, that's exactly where we were at in January. 3. Employ a director of football who will delegate responsibility and and have confidence in his employees to do the job. If Dennis Wise doesn't have faith in Kevin Keegan spotting a player he wants in his team, or dismissing one he doesn't, then he shouldn't have him in the job. He should take on someone else who he does have that faith in and leave him to do it. Similarly at the academy. If he wants to be the one with final say in recruitment in either of those areas then it's up to Ashley to say he can do the job himself, not to support him in running a puppet regime from behind the scenes. 4. Stop the bullshit (see my sig).

Terrific post He left an open bracket hanging though Personally I find it cold comfort that Ashley might have inadvertantly ridden the credit crunch less close to the knuckle than other Premier league chairmen....none of who's clubs have actually gone under....yet. It's like thanking Josef Fritzl for keeping Elizabeth out of danger all those years, if you ask me.

That sentence in bold is probably one of the biggest piles of dogshit I have ever read on this forum This is the problem with anti-Ashley posters and the likes of the NUSC. Banging on about what's been done wrong without even attempting to acknowledge the point of the original post, which is about clubs going facing real financial difficulties if they spend beyond their means without any proportionate success. Does this sound like any club in particular? This is the problem about those who have bought into Ashley's propaganda and have posted on this thread without correctly interpreting what others have said - there was absolutely NOTHING in my posting which mentioned Ashley's spend - if you look again , you will see that I said he has messed up Jumbo style ; this has nothing to do with the spend but EVERYTHING to do with his decision-making...and I stand by that 100 % , as would anyone unless they think that creating a situation where KK walks out, employing a third-rater like Kinnear after making an abortive effort to sell the club(and then offering him a 2 year contract) etc etc...is good management. not arguing with any of that like, but i love the chelp that Happy Face has railed off into about spending on managers under ashley after a massive amount of the debt ashley paid off was built up by the previous owners in appointing s*** managers on big contracts, allowing them to spend a fortune on s*** players then sacking them and paying them off you couldn't make it up Ashley hasn't paid it off. He's changed the lender....to himself...so we save on the interest. Ashley has sacked managers at a rate 3 times more frequent than Shepherd did. Why do you support this course of action while deriding it from the previous chairman? But I don't see a problem in Ashley being repaid the loans he has made to the club. After all, if it was a PLC the shareholder(s) would all be entitled to dividends from the club each year. Is it really so dreadful to expect to be repaid for loans made to the club. It makes sound business sense to me, and once the loans are repaid, and providing the club is on a stable financial footing, then the club will, if run sensibly along the lines now set out by Ashley, generate ample funds for player purchases for years to come. Hopefully players will want to play for NUFC for the kudos of playing for a top well run and successful club, rather than that last big payday. I have no problem whatsoever with him loaning the club money interest free rather than a bank. It's just as beneficial for him as it is for the club. We save on interest and loan repayments until he sells. And just like the banks, he gets the full amount back, even if players he's signed decrease in value to zero and we're left with a shitty squad fighting relegation year after year. Started off brightly but you still insisted on twisting a perfectly good and reasonable post to fit your agenda How's that man? It's just as good for Ashley being the clubs moneylender as it is for the club. There's no negativity in that, no underhand, money laundering, assett stripping conspiracy theory. Just a fact that it's a common sense approach for both parties. I'd have thought my agenda would be the same as yours. We want Newcastle to do better in the league. But that's my point exactly. It does not matter to me if it's beneficial to Ashley as well. I couldn't care less what Ashley does or benefits from the club, so long as Newcastle United is better off as a result. He has made several serious errors in judgment, but one cannot ignore the massive job being done in terms of re-structuring the club's finances, and bringing on the youth policy, to ensure our survival as a football club once this whole crisis has blown over. Nail on head. Are we? Do you truly believe the under 18's and a low rate of interest on our borrowing are the things stopping our inevitable implosion? We clearly haven't been better off on the pitch in the short term. But it's a long and complicated process, trying to halt the slide we were on when the previous board had sold up. All things considered, including the uncontrollable economical climate, we could still come out of it in a better position than we would have had we owed everything to creditors. Only time will tell HF mate. Only time will tell. I put the same question to you that wasn't answered elsewhere. Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league? What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season? Well the idea of collecting rising youth talent from around the globe, and developing them, may save us a few pennies here and there when building a squad. If we're diligent and lucky, we could unearth one or two stars. The one thing I am still hoping for is that we sign a top top class youth coach with a track record of working with kids. Otherwise the whole plan is futile. I don't know much about Dickie Dollar, but I was hoping for someone like Roeder who has done it in the past. Joe Hart wouldn't be a bad shout either. Improving the interest rate on our debt will save us a few more bob as well. Adding bits of bobs to one another would increase transfer budget, hence giving us a better chance of buying better players. What Ashley REALLY needs to do now is to bring in a top quality manager. Keegan was one of course, but he was the wrong choice for so many reasons. Kinnear clearly isn't, and Ashley has got to realize this and move him on at the end of the season. Completeley agree with all 3 points (except maybe Keegan being the wrong man - he's probably the only man that could have kept us up last year). The first two pale behind the third one which is vital....and doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

The more you criticise the ownership of the club the more I become convinced what a set of twats the NUSC are, last week you were trying to convince us that you werent anti-ashley, yet every post is...Anti-ashley. Im not pro-ashley im pro-NUFC and moaning about ashleys running of the club isnt goint to achieve anything. Your a t*** and so are the rest of NUSC. What has this got to do with the NUSC? Let's not derail. I'm pro-NUFC. You think endorsing Ashleys actions is going to achieve something? You have been using this forum to promote NUSC therefore your comments are indicative of NUSC comments, on one hand your saying your not anti ashley on the other your using every thread to criticism him, I couldnt give a f*** who owns the club, I just care about the team out on the pitch that i pay to watch. Have i endorsed him? If i did what would it mean? f*** all. Have i set up an anti ashley supporters club and called it NUSC? and if i did what would it achieve? f*** all. What do you think of how we've performed on the pitch in the last couple of years then? What would have to happen on the pitch before you started thinking the people in charge were incompetent? Relegation? Weve performed poorly under sounsess, roeder, allardyce and Kinnear. Very well under robson and keegan (both times), honours even i would say. Success on the pitch would not convince me the owners were competent or incompetent, the two events are not as clearly related as you are making out. Are liverpool a well owned club? Are west ham a well owned club? theres a difference between well owned and well run, and an even bigger difference to a well managed side. relegation would kill me, as it would most NUFC supporters. Now ive answered your questions honestly, i would appreciate it if you did the same. Why have you decided to feed on the misery of NUFC supporters to form a so-called supporters club to feed the media hysteria surrounding our club? WHy are you charging people for this pleasure? Who gave you the mandate to speak on behalf of the majority of us who realise its about more than Mike ashley? I believe you saw a opportunity to take advantage of the fans misery to form a group where by you could appoint yourself chief mouthpiece to gain a little bit of noteriety (sp)and cashflow to enhance your sad existance, and again you are a twat. We're in a worse position now than we were at this point of the season under any of the managers you mention. We've not been this close to being relegated in 17 years. Cheers for the character assassination. But I have nowt to do with the organisation of the NUSC. I've not been to a meeting. I've not been to the rally. I support the people giving their time and energy, usually with no recognition (it's been the likes of Lee Ryder naming the most active members to have a pop). You think I'm a twat? Fair enough. I prefer to think I'm one of the few people who'll take the time to even debate you and others on this subject any more. It's no wonder good posters like Alex, Parky and Tooj have stopped bothering though. Any discussion of Ashley's running of the club decends into an exercise in NUSC bashing. Ashley-bashing....NUSC bashing....there's always bashing of some type going on it just depends which side of the fence you are sitting.Anyone who stops posting on the site because they don't want to hear a different POV is probably more comfortable on TT where there isn't even a debate and good posters like Baggio are ridiculed as WUMs. I wasn't so much Ashley bashing as answering another posters question factually. What this had to do with the NUSC, or why it makes me a twat still hasn't been explained.

The more you criticise the ownership of the club the more I become convinced what a set of twats the NUSC are, last week you were trying to convince us that you werent anti-ashley, yet every post is...Anti-ashley. Im not pro-ashley im pro-NUFC and moaning about ashleys running of the club isnt goint to achieve anything. Your a t*** and so are the rest of NUSC. What has this got to do with the NUSC? Let's not derail. I'm pro-NUFC. You think endorsing Ashleys actions is going to achieve something? You have been using this forum to promote NUSC therefore your comments are indicative of NUSC comments, on one hand your saying your not anti ashley on the other your using every thread to criticism him, I couldnt give a f*** who owns the club, I just care about the team out on the pitch that i pay to watch. Have i endorsed him? If i did what would it mean? f*** all. Have i set up an anti ashley supporters club and called it NUSC? and if i did what would it achieve? f*** all. Does Happy Face = N.U.S.C? I thought Teasdale was N.U.S.C I originally though Mick Martin (True Faith) was N.U.S.C At one point Shields was N.U.S.C Who is the N.U.S.C? They're all on the website. Pompus self appointed voices of the fans. Bring back the bedsheet brigade is what I say. NU$C my arse! I am? Which website is that? News to me. How, may I ask, does any organisation get created without someone appointing themselves to get it off the ground in the first place? There'll be a vote on who should be doing what. Why don't you put yourself up for nomination and become the voice of reason on the committee?

- to the first one short term no, long term perhaps as your question omits many other factors - to the second one how the fuck should we know? they look likely to be minimal though from what i can see so, for you; do you think continuing to increase the clubs debt to dangerous levels by signing more past it overpaid wasters would have seen the club climb the league? any fucking idiot can weight a question in their favour man The weight in my question reflected the only benefits I've heard people say Ashley has brought to the club. I'll gladly listen to any other things I might have missed that he's done to push us on. To answer your question, no, I don't think we should sign overpaid wasters. The likes of Viduka, Barton, Smith, Duff and Geremi are a drain on our resources. We need more signings like Owen who attracts as much revenue as he costs even when he's not fit. Players who sell strips and make us attractive to Asian TV networks. But debt has no bearing on league position. That should be left to the money men. More important is a competent manager, allowed to do his job and given the tools he feels he needs to do it. And a confident squad, assured that they are going places if they stay at the club, rather than pining for a move to more ambitious clubs....like Wigan.

That sentence in bold is probably one of the biggest piles of dogshit I have ever read on this forum This is the problem with anti-Ashley posters and the likes of the NUSC. Banging on about what's been done wrong without even attempting to acknowledge the point of the original post, which is about clubs going facing real financial difficulties if they spend beyond their means without any proportionate success. Does this sound like any club in particular? This is the problem about those who have bought into Ashley's propaganda and have posted on this thread without correctly interpreting what others have said - there was absolutely NOTHING in my posting which mentioned Ashley's spend - if you look again , you will see that I said he has messed up Jumbo style ; this has nothing to do with the spend but EVERYTHING to do with his decision-making...and I stand by that 100 % , as would anyone unless they think that creating a situation where KK walks out, employing a third-rater like Kinnear after making an abortive effort to sell the club(and then offering him a 2 year contract) etc etc...is good management. not arguing with any of that like, but i love the chelp that Happy Face has railed off into about spending on managers under ashley after a massive amount of the debt ashley paid off was built up by the previous owners in appointing s*** managers on big contracts, allowing them to spend a fortune on s*** players then sacking them and paying them off you couldn't make it up Ashley hasn't paid it off. He's changed the lender....to himself...so we save on the interest. Ashley has sacked managers at a rate 3 times more frequent than Shepherd did. Why do you support this course of action while deriding it from the previous chairman? But I don't see a problem in Ashley being repaid the loans he has made to the club. After all, if it was a PLC the shareholder(s) would all be entitled to dividends from the club each year. Is it really so dreadful to expect to be repaid for loans made to the club. It makes sound business sense to me, and once the loans are repaid, and providing the club is on a stable financial footing, then the club will, if run sensibly along the lines now set out by Ashley, generate ample funds for player purchases for years to come. Hopefully players will want to play for NUFC for the kudos of playing for a top well run and successful club, rather than that last big payday. I have no problem whatsoever with him loaning the club money interest free rather than a bank. It's just as beneficial for him as it is for the club. We save on interest and loan repayments until he sells. And just like the banks, he gets the full amount back, even if players he's signed decrease in value to zero and we're left with a shitty squad fighting relegation year after year. Started off brightly but you still insisted on twisting a perfectly good and reasonable post to fit your agenda How's that man? It's just as good for Ashley being the clubs moneylender as it is for the club. There's no negativity in that, no underhand, money laundering, assett stripping conspiracy theory. Just a fact that it's a common sense approach for both parties. I'd have thought my agenda would be the same as yours. We want Newcastle to do better in the league. But that's my point exactly. It does not matter to me if it's beneficial to Ashley as well. I couldn't care less what Ashley does or benefits from the club, so long as Newcastle United is better off as a result. He has made several serious errors in judgment, but one cannot ignore the massive job being done in terms of re-structuring the club's finances, and bringing on the youth policy, to ensure our survival as a football club once this whole crisis has blown over. Nail on head. Are we? Do you truly believe the under 18's and a low rate of interest on our borrowing are the things stopping our inevitable implosion? We clearly haven't been better off on the pitch in the short term. But it's a long and complicated process, trying to halt the slide we were on when the previous board had sold up. All things considered, including the uncontrollable economical climate, we could still come out of it in a better position than we would have had we owed everything to creditors. Only time will tell HF mate. Only time will tell. I put the same question to you that wasn't answered elsewhere. Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league? What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season?

The more you criticise the ownership of the club the more I become convinced what a set of twats the NUSC are, last week you were trying to convince us that you werent anti-ashley, yet every post is...Anti-ashley. Im not pro-ashley im pro-NUFC and moaning about ashleys running of the club isnt goint to achieve anything. Your a t*** and so are the rest of NUSC. What has this got to do with the NUSC? Let's not derail. I'm pro-NUFC. You think endorsing Ashleys actions is going to achieve something? You have been using this forum to promote NUSC therefore your comments are indicative of NUSC comments, on one hand your saying your not anti ashley on the other your using every thread to criticism him, I couldnt give a f*** who owns the club, I just care about the team out on the pitch that i pay to watch. Have i endorsed him? If i did what would it mean? f*** all. Have i set up an anti ashley supporters club and called it NUSC? and if i did what would it achieve? f*** all. What do you think of how we've performed on the pitch in the last couple of years then? What would have to happen on the pitch before you started thinking the people in charge were incompetent? Relegation? Weve performed poorly under sounsess, roeder, allardyce and Kinnear. Very well under robson and keegan (both times), honours even i would say. Success on the pitch would not convince me the owners were competent or incompetent, the two events are not as clearly related as you are making out. Are liverpool a well owned club? Are west ham a well owned club? theres a difference between well owned and well run, and an even bigger difference to a well managed side. relegation would kill me, as it would most NUFC supporters. Now ive answered your questions honestly, i would appreciate it if you did the same. Why have you decided to feed on the misery of NUFC supporters to form a so-called supporters club to feed the media hysteria surrounding our club? WHy are you charging people for this pleasure? Who gave you the mandate to speak on behalf of the majority of us who realise its about more than Mike ashley? I believe you saw a opportunity to take advantage of the fans misery to form a group where by you could appoint yourself chief mouthpiece to gain a little bit of noteriety (sp)and cashflow to enhance your sad existance, and again you are a twat. We're in a worse position now than we were at this point of the season under any of the managers you mention. We've not been this close to being relegated in 17 years. Cheers for the character assassination. But I have nowt to do with the organisation of the NUSC. I've not been to a meeting. I've not been to the rally. I support the people giving their time and energy, usually with no recognition (it's been the likes of Lee Ryder naming the most active members to have a pop). You think I'm a twat? Fair enough. I prefer to think I'm one of the few people who'll take the time to even debate you and others on this subject any more. It's no wonder good posters like Alex, Parky and Tooj have stopped bothering though. Any discussion of Ashley's running of the club decends into an exercise in NUSC bashing.

I've embarrassed myself....but you's all descend to NUSC abuse when it's nowt to do with them. righty oh.

The more you criticise the ownership of the club the more I become convinced what a set of twats the NUSC are, last week you were trying to convince us that you werent anti-ashley, yet every post is...Anti-ashley. Im not pro-ashley im pro-NUFC and moaning about ashleys running of the club isnt goint to achieve anything. Your a t*** and so are the rest of NUSC. What has this got to do with the NUSC? Let's not derail. I'm pro-NUFC. You think endorsing Ashleys actions is going to achieve something? You have been using this forum to promote NUSC therefore your comments are indicative of NUSC comments, on one hand your saying your not anti ashley on the other your using every thread to criticism him, I couldnt give a fuck who owns the club, I just care about the team out on the pitch that i pay to watch. Have i endorsed him? If i did what would it mean? fuck all. Have i set up an anti ashley supporters club and called it NUSC? and if i did what would it achieve? fuck all. What do you think of how we've performed on the pitch in the last couple of years then? What would have to happen on the pitch before you started thinking the people in charge were incompetent? Relegation?

unlucky. Erm...you've highlighted my point. He accepts we want to hear from him direct, but he's not going to make it happen.

The more you criticise the ownership of the club the more I become convinced what a set of twats the NUSC are, last week you were trying to convince us that you werent anti-ashley, yet every post is...Anti-ashley. Im not pro-ashley im pro-NUFC and moaning about ashleys running of the club isnt goint to achieve anything. Your a twat and so are the rest of NUSC. What has this got to do with the NUSC? Let's not derail. I'm pro-NUFC. You think endorsing Ashleys actions is going to achieve something?

If we go down, I'm guessing it'll take him more than the £15m a year he's willing to put in to stop it happening. I might be wrong though.