fredbob

Robson was poor in the transfer market with most of the better players in his team coming here before he did. I'll add Acuna, Bernard & Distin to the good signings list, but the amount of money blown on players like Cort, Bassedas, Viana, Bramble, Ambrose, Butt & Carr was scary. Milner, N'Zogbia. And Gallacher did the job he was brought in for. Agree with the general point, though. was helder one of his aswell ? Think so, think Domi and Distin were as well, although obviously Distin didnt sign.

A very good post Jayson - this sums up the whole situation very well. I agree with most, if not all, of your points and would add that Ashley is mainly responsible for appointing the wrong staff to run the club ; furthermore, he has shown bad judgment and appalling management skills by alllowing the Keegan walk-out to be finalised - anyone with half a brain would have realised the drastic effect such an event would have on both fans and players at the start of the season. I believe that KK could have been talked round, and although it may have cost Ashley by having to fire Wise, it would have probably ensured the club would remain in the Prem, although only just, because the team is patently NOT good enough...the turmoil at the season's start has wrecked morale and this could have been prevented. So, despite the good work he has done to put the club on a better financial footing, Ashley has messed-up big time. Your post discount the idea that problems may have been caused by Keegan in this whole farce, the accounts show the neccesity of having the "transfer team" becasue they're ensuring that the money is going further, which is vital. Ashley 2 major mistakes have been appointing Keegan and poor communication. A 'transfer team' is NOT necessary to ensure that player purchases are kept within a budget ; KK has had to work with that before(look at the 'huge' sums he spent building the promotion side..!!)and I am sure that, if he had been given the TRUE PICTURE prior to joining as manager , he would have either accepted or rejected the job on the terms given to him when he met Ashley... The 'farce' is Ashley's handling of the situation and the fact that either ; 1.He didn't tell Keegan what the management set-up would consist of, Or 2.He told him one thing and did another, just to get him in when he couldn't recruit other managers. Your reply discounts the a/m possibilities, and I am NOT in the KK forever camp ; I DO, however, realise that Keegan could have been told a different story both before he joined the club, and prior to Wise & Co joining. As has been said in the past, both Wenger & Fergie said KK was RIGHT to walk if he hadn't been given control of signings, so it seems these experienced managers would disagree with your views about Ashley.. Then i guess its down to each persons interpretation of events, Keegan said repeatedly that he was aware of the structure - if such a huge thing wasnt discussed at the point of appointment then both sides want shooting. However, assuming Keegan soon found out that the system wasnt going to work the way he thought or wanted, then why didnt he walk there and then, if no money was available why not walk then as well? In fact, in both scenarios you give he should of walked, we know that Keegan is a man of 'principle', your explanation of the events dont really fully explain why he walked on only the last day of the transfer window. Im not sure what "a/m" means, although im aware that Keegan is a man of consistent principle (first/second time he quit nufc in the early 90's, wanted to stay at fulham to finish the job but took the big job with his bosses blessing, resigned wehn he knew he was out of his depth at england, resigned at man c when he knew he's lost his love for the game etc) so what was it in all this that kept him here if so much had fundamentally changed from what was said during his appointment? Wenger and Fergie may well be right, assuming Keegan absolutely no control of the transfers but we saw throughout the summer that Keegan did have power to say yes or no, players like Zayatte were turned down by keegan, if he absolutely no choice then how is this at all remotely possilbe? Like i say, Ashley 2 major mistakes are his woeful communication with the fans, and the appointment of Keegan in the first place.

OK, I understand, because I don't know of anybody else then we mustn't have had any other targets. That and limiting our search for players to Spain. Fucking, you're relentless, ive never heard so much rubbish come out of one persons mouth over such a short period of time. How old are you? I want to say zitty teen but im not entirely sure.

How do you know that it was Coloccini or nobody? Who else were we looking at? Which names were we being heavily linked with? So basically your saying we went after Colo and got our man?

A very good post Jayson - this sums up the whole situation very well. I agree with most, if not all, of your points and would add that Ashley is mainly responsible for appointing the wrong staff to run the club ; furthermore, he has shown bad judgment and appalling management skills by alllowing the Keegan walk-out to be finalised - anyone with half a brain would have realised the drastic effect such an event would have on both fans and players at the start of the season. I believe that KK could have been talked round, and although it may have cost Ashley by having to fire Wise, it would have probably ensured the club would remain in the Prem, although only just, because the team is patently NOT good enough...the turmoil at the season's start has wrecked morale and this could have been prevented. So, despite the good work he has done to put the club on a better financial footing, Ashley has messed-up big time. Your post discount the idea that problems may have been caused by Keegan in this whole farce, the accounts show the neccesity of having the "transfer team" becasue they're ensuring that the money is going further, which is vital. Ashley 2 major mistakes have been appointing Keegan and poor communication.

Yes he was. Great manager. Great footballer. Great bloke. Everything Ashley isn’t. Keegan earned the respect of thousands of supporters. He doesn’t need to get a round in for people to like him. Appointing Keegan was a desperate measure by a man out of his depth. Letting him walk six months later was a mistake of huge proportions. Keegan is how he is, you can’t change him and everybody knows he’s temperamental. Ashely tried to squeeze a square peg into a round hole with predictably disastrous consequences. When the going gets tough you have to trust your friends. I’m 100% certain Keegan is a friend of NUFC, and 99% certain Ashley isn’t. What makes a great manager to you? Id put Keegan in the group of good managers at best, same group that id stick Redknapp and Moyes in.

Truely poetic. Lets not have a debate about the managers, lets just all get along and make sure no ones toes get trampled on. Has anyone else noticed how Keegan fans take similar stances on Keegan "criticisms" (if you can call it that) as NE5 does to Shepherd's... In fact its the same sort of argument, if you dislike Shepherd it means you love Ashley, if you rate SBR much higher than Keegan it means to think Keegan was a s*** manager. (What a hypocrite you are by the way, you can spend weeks and months talking absolute unsubtantiated s*** about the club [you claim to love] and people take it but when someone slights Keegans character based on facts we get this crap) This isnt me defending Ashley incidentally, this is purely an example of your hypocrisy, Translation : I got nothing, but i'm still going to not admit I was wrong and just spout off unrelated s***. Keegan both times has left us stronger than we were before he arrived, it's not his fault that dopes appoint other dopes to replace them and undo everything he did I got nothing on what? Keegan wasnt a great manager thats a fact. Theres nothing else to it mate, i appreciated what he did in the past for us but that doesnt mean im eternally grateful, nobodies immune from critisicm, especially someone who walks out the club like Keegan has. I could quite easily go into his overall managerial record and point out the avergagness of it, or i could easily go into how he knew little about our squad when he re-signed (he loves nufc remeber) or how he doesnt attend games in non formal roles (loves nufc remember) but ill not bother becasue no doubt it'll be ignored by the majority. The over reaction to some of the criticisms posted on the board highlight the problem that was casued by the blinkered fans when it all kicked off in the summer - none of you could see the big picture and we're paying for it.

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate. I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe. Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money. If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is. Signed for Villa. Still at Bayern Munich. Is there anything that will shake your faith in the Good Lord Ashley? Selling Given and Harper this month? Getting relegated? Playing in red and white? Your logic is inpenetrable mate, only becasue its so crap. Fuck the debts Ashley you tit, spend the fucking money. who cares if it puts us into adminastration should it go wrong. If you cant see that as a club werent in a position to spend £100m on players even if we wanted to then thats not my problem, the facts and explainations are riddled throughout this thread.

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate. I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe. Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money. If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is.

Who's to say they arent pursuing targets? It happens every window, every fan from every club lambast the club for not doing there preperation when in actual fact the polarised nature of the window dictates that its win win for the clubs to sell as late as poosilbe, if at all.

I think its only relevant in that if Keegan had walked in May and he'd decided to sell then, he would probably have found a buyer. I'd also say as a continuation of my post above that I don't see much material difference between being worth £800m and £1.9bn - its still "pointless" excess in my view and in any case I think he'd already shown he wasn't going to spend a great deal of money even if for some reason his wealth had rocketed. Im not sure how to argue that point, seems a bit of a moot point really. second part is pure specualtion as well and something else which i dont think i can argue either. How do you view the Modric bid and the bid for Woodgate? What about Collocinni? Arent they substantial bids and purchases?

I agree. I'd also point out for those taking the piss about his losses being a shock that his huge loss in HBOS shares was completely predictable. Not if you didnt see the global recession coming. Thered been enough warnings. Obviously the government were denying it but many respected economists had been making dark predictions long before Ashley bought NUFC. Ok, its a fair point but changes very little and is in fact pretty irrelevant.

I agree. I'd also point out for those taking the piss about his losses being a shock that his huge loss in HBOS shares was completely predictable. It’s one of the many Ashley contradictions. On one hand he’s supposed to be some intergalactic business genius, on the other couldn't even see the recession that was looming on the horizon. Or perhaps he saw it but badley misjudged the speed. This has all gone way beyond whats actually important, the importatn thing being that our club is finally finacially safe and in my opinion is pursuing an excellent policy which is sustainable and effective. My single only concern is that we get the right man in charge, thats all that this hinges on.

I agree. I'd also point out for those taking the piss about his losses being a shock that his huge loss in HBOS shares was completely predictable. Not if you didnt see the global recession coming.

I was going to pick up on this earlier when someone was asking how much Ashley should spend which I guess is what you're getting at. There were certainly times a few years ago when I spent almost every spare penny I had following the team - with very little regret. I wouldn't do that now as other responsibilities and apathy have taken root over time but I can relate to the notion of making the club the most important thing in your life. In a way what FS is saying is that for us as fans we think that an owner should be into the club mind, body and soul as that's what we'd like to think we'd do if it was us. I know Ashley doesn't have £600m in the bank as people have taken the piss out of the lad in this thread for saying but I think there are a lot of us who if were "given" Ashley's wealth would see an almost total commitment to the club as a possibility. I know when I've daydreamed about winning the lottery I've never thought beyond £20m being needed to do all of the "mundane" stuff I want with a lot to spare so the notion of having hundreds of millions on paper seems pointless to me and I think I would consider it quite seriously. Of course you could argue that possibly only Jack Walker has ever done this "full on" though there may be some lower/non-league people who've done it to a lesser degree. I think one of the more instinctive things people have against Ashley (which I admit to) is the lack of connection with the club which makes talk of an emotional investment less likely. Of course you could argue that that's a good thing as an undeniable Newcastle fan has got us into this financial s*** in the first place but I'd still be a lot happier with things if there was at least some kind of connection - I think that was why Ashley with Keegan in place seemed so appealing. Its just a turn of phrase. A simpler way of summing up something more complex. I could have talked at length about the structure of Ashleys wealth, but as it seemed highly unlikely hed have trouble getting his hands £25m I didnt feel it was necessary. I dont think paying out £25m is the problem here mate, its how to spend that £25m thats the problem, it all ties in with the state of the club. He needs to bring something sustainable to the table and giving the manager £25m to spend inthe summer just like that isnt sustainable. Its also ignoirng the fact that in 2 seasons he's actually already commited £110m to the club, of his own cash. Wait till summer, you'll see the light. Incidentally, after arguing all this, the important issue is not how much he spends but how much he imporves the squad. Thats all you need to concern yourself with.

The same as Ashley I would guess, he had £1.9 billion. Hair splitting. You shouldn’t buy a football club without thinking things through properly. He should of thought about the possbility of a global recession before purchasing a football club? No he should have prevented it.

The same as Ashley I would guess, he had £1.9 billion. Hair splitting. You shouldn’t buy a football club without thinking things through properly. He should of thought about the possbility of a global recession before purchasing a football club?

That is just as valid a comment for those who thinks he's got plenty to spend. I think having a debate about a strategy over 4 or 5 years if he is committed to staying is one thing. What worries people like me, FS and a couple of others is that there seems an unwillingness from his pov to address this window/season and for those who seem to defend him in this thread to think about the here and now. How much he was willing to spend last summer or next summer are worthwhile topics imo - I think asking for funds for emergency plumbing for a f*** off hole in the living room ceiling shouldn't attract too much criticism. Personally I don’t care if he has to sell his house to buy a new left back. It was his decision to take on all the responsibility that comes with running a football club. I’m not interested in his sob stories, or how many times he’s seen Maradona play. The supporters and the team are the most important parts of any football club. Mr Ashley is neglecting both. would you give all your money to nufc ? No, but if I only had a personal fortune of £800m I wouldn’t have bought them. What if your personal fortune was nearly £2bn?

FWIW I think that will be too late.

That's twice I've seen you quote 4 years - just to be pedantic 3 years ago we finished 7th (not that I backed Roeder's permanent appointment) - that season showed that a half decent manager can make things work which you suggested when we discussed this this afternoon. Having said that minimal "investment" over the next 2 or 3 years will be fatal no matter where we finish this season. So a change of manager changed our fortunes for the season - it doesnt change the fact that it was still a relegation battle, the upturn in fortunes was good will from Souness leaving, roeder proved it the following season that he was incapable as manager. for what its worht i think we will be spending money in the summer, i think thats the period that Ashley will look to take advantage of. Keegan took over this time last year and eventually guided us to a very safe 11th, that doesnt change the fact that last year was a relagation battle as well.

According to the accounts he loaned the club £100 million then added another £10 million. So on top of the £110m he's pumped into the club - how much should he provide in terms of transfer funds, hypothetically spekaing of course? (Assuming of course that he does have £600m just sitting in his bank account) Keep your hair on As I’ve already said…. £25-30m this summer would have done the trick. The squad Keegan inherited contained some quality but lacked balance and confidence, but by the end of the season were playing good football and winning games. If Kev had been allowed to bring in a left back and central midfielder of his choice the squad would have been a lot stronger, and he would have probably accepted the arrival of Xisco and not fallen out with the cockney mafia. For £25m Ashley could have had stability, unity and a squad capable of finishing comfortably in the top half. The extra money from a higher league placing could be worth £3-4m, the longer runs in the cup another £3-4m, sneaking a UEFA cup place another £2-3m, the better attendances next season £5-10m. It might not have worked out exactly like that but it’s wrong to say spending nowt and hoping for the best is the only way to respond to NUFC’s financial problem. An extra £10m-15m extra for Fat Sam to spend might have been the best option. He’s got a proven record of doing a good job on a shoestring, perhaps an extra £10m would have got him Curtis David instead of Rosenthal for example. As it was Ashley decided to spend £5m sacking him. Theres just far too much of that to digest. So you'd carry on adding to the wage bill? And what about the debt and interest payments? You'd leave them unaddressed? What about the jan period and the followign summer? How much money are you willing to give? What about the summer after that? When does the debt get addressed? What if we dont do great and struggle like we're dong now? Then what? Do you carry on reivinvestment with no contingency plan? What if we get relegated? What if the courts come down in favour of Keegan and RFC Mallorca and we have to find another £25m quid from somewhere? What is our home attendances fall below 40,000? Both options are a gamble. Good questions, apply them to your approach because as far as i can see, your paying for it all, as well as going into adminstration, something we'd never recover from. Think about it.

The current alternative is relegation. I'd also point out that nearly all of the "wasters" on high wages were signed under his ownership. The current alternative has been the same alternative for 4 years. Dont make this such a simple equation, it isnt, the rot started along time ago, you;d be being extremely naive to suggest that our relegation problems are being caused by this approach, becasue as far as im concerend they came 2 years before we even knew who Ashley was. Maybe a reason why he changed the system? Also not entriely sure but some players were signed before ashley came on board.

According to the accounts he loaned the club £100 million then added another £10 million. So on top of the £110m he's pumped into the club - how much should he provide in terms of transfer funds, hypothetically spekaing of course? (Assuming of course that he does have £600m just sitting in his bank account) Keep your hair on As I’ve already said…. £25-30m this summer would have done the trick. The squad Keegan inherited contained some quality but lacked balance and confidence, but by the end of the season were playing good football and winning games. If Kev had been allowed to bring in a left back and central midfielder of his choice the squad would have been a lot stronger, and he would have probably accepted the arrival of Xisco and not fallen out with the cockney mafia. For £25m Ashley could have had stability, unity and a squad capable of finishing comfortably in the top half. The extra money from a higher league placing could be worth £3-4m, the longer runs in the cup another £3-4m, sneaking a UEFA cup place another £2-3m, the better attendances next season £5-10m. It might not have worked out exactly like that but it’s wrong to say spending nowt and hoping for the best is the only way to respond to NUFC’s financial problem. An extra £10m-15m extra for Fat Sam to spend might have been the best option. He’s got a proven record of doing a good job on a shoestring, perhaps an extra £10m would have got him Curtis David instead of Rosenthal for example. As it was Ashley decided to spend £5m sacking him. Theres just far too much of that to digest. So you'd carry on adding to the wage bill? And what about the debt and interest payments? You'd leave them unaddressed? What about the jan period and the followign summer? How much money are you willing to give? What about the summer after that? When does the debt get addressed? What if we dont do great and struggle like we're dong now? Then what? Do you carry on reivinvestment with no contingency plan? errrr...........ehm....errrr....back your manager Far too articulate for this boy.

According to the accounts he loaned the club £100 million then added another £10 million. So on top of the £110m he's pumped into the club - how much should he provide in terms of transfer funds, hypothetically spekaing of course? (Assuming of course that he does have £600m just sitting in his bank account) Keep your hair on As I’ve already said…. £25-30m this summer would have done the trick. The squad Keegan inherited contained some quality but lacked balance and confidence, but by the end of the season were playing good football and winning games. If Kev had been allowed to bring in a left back and central midfielder of his choice the squad would have been a lot stronger, and he would have probably accepted the arrival of Xisco and not fallen out with the cockney mafia. For £25m Ashley could have had stability, unity and a squad capable of finishing comfortably in the top half. The extra money from a higher league placing could be worth £3-4m, the longer runs in the cup another £3-4m, sneaking a UEFA cup place another £2-3m, the better attendances next season £5-10m. It might not have worked out exactly like that but it’s wrong to say spending nowt and hoping for the best is the only way to respond to NUFC’s financial problem. An extra £10m-15m extra for Fat Sam to spend might have been the best option. He’s got a proven record of doing a good job on a shoestring, perhaps an extra £10m would have got him Curtis David instead of Rosenthal for example. As it was Ashley decided to spend £5m sacking him. Theres just far too much of that to digest. So you'd carry on adding to the wage bill? And what about the debt and interest payments? You'd leave them unaddressed? What about the jan period and the followign summer? How much money are you willing to give? What about the summer after that? When does the debt get addressed? What if we dont do great and struggle like we're dong now? Then what? Do you carry on reivinvestment with no contingency plan?

I couldn’t give a s*** if LLLO was the head of the IMF. This isn’t a question of debit and credit columns, it’s a question of strategy. Unbeleivable. So you're saying he should of left the 3rd party debt alone, and then invested £100m into the first team? No. I’m saying restructuring the debt was the absolute minimum requirement, and that Ashley has milked the ‘I saved the club thing’ to death. So on top of the £100m he's pumped into the club - how much should he provide in terms of transfer funds, hypothetically spekaing of course? (Assuming of course that he does have £600m just sitting in his bank account) We didn’t ask him to buy the club. If he won’t put in the investment levels needed to turn things around then he might as well fuck off. Any business can borrow some more money and slash it’s wage bill, the problem is they tend to go out of business very quickly. Thats not what i asked. How would you of run the club in the exact same situation?