fredbob

If only we'd spent £24m on the players we've signed so far, instead of £4.3m that we have spent.

 

Yeah that would be really clever. Paying for players available for free is ace.

 

What a stupid thing to say.

you know fine well he means that some would have been happier if we'd spent money instead of getting frees and cheapies so to speak.

As far as I'm concerned we'be signed 5 very good players by all accounts for £7.8m, yet people still fail to see the subjective nature of football transfer fees. I remember saying how I thought the £35m would be another noose for the club to hang itself with, looks like I may be right.

If only we'd spent £24m on the players we've signed so far, instead of £4.3m that we have spent.

Whilst I think there's one, possibly 2 more strikers in the offing, can anyone explain to me why no one see's Ba as our replacement for Carroll?

when villa make a bid, hopefully thatll force us to make a move. if we fail to buy zoggy, we've f***ed it up big time!

 

Even if the reported £12million fee and 65k wages are true?

 

I'd be tempted to look elsewhere for that price like.

I'd love zog back but putting a bit of perspective on those figures, we could potentially sign a player for £16m on £50k p/w on a 5 year contract for the same outlay as above. I know its unfashionable to talk about money but wages make a huge difference.

I too don't think "we have have to go all out to get zog" , with those figures we can definitely get the same or even better.

I'm a football fan. I want to see good, hopefully winning football on the pitch, that's my primary reason for going. The wages of the players, whether high or low are ultimately of little concern to me; players are either useful or they're not. Luque was rubbish, Emre so-so and Owen overall a disaster because of his injuries, attitude towards his England place and lack of balls when it really mattered. His comments since leaving prove what a wanker he is. If he'd done the business though I wouldn't have cared about the silly money he was on, just like I didn't care when Shearer was on silly money. I follow Newcastle United the football club, not their bank balance.

 

As I said before, by no means am I claiming the finances don't matter. Beats me why everyone wants to be an amateur accountant these days, that's all.

 

To be honest Dave, I'm only on my phone and haven't got time to address everything I feel is wrong with that post, would we be having this debate had sounds made a success of that team? No.

 

What that era did highlight though was how important it is to enforce accountability and some form of sensible transfer plan.

 

If you're mainly bothered about the quality of football that's played surely you should only be interested in the quality of player we sign rather than how much we spend on them? Do marveuax/ba/cabaye and Ben arfa not indicate an intention to buy quality players?

 

Remember, players that cost a lot now were good players before they became well known.

 

Id say if you're not interested in the finances, then why comment on them so frequently?

 

No idea why it always comes back to apparently advocating Souness, Shepherd and some of the fucking ludicrous deals we did in the past. I guess I must want to see the club go out of existence!

 

I comment on the finances because I want to see Andy Carroll adequately replaced. I was always against his sale at any price for the same reasons as above - I saw a very good player going out and nothing coming in. The excuse for selling him was that the money would go straight back into the first team, but then it became 'the squad' instead, and now it's 'the club'. As I see it we've not replaced him, and unless there's a dead cheap Andy Carroll equivalent we can find (that Liverpool and Spurs etc apparently can't) then we'll have to spend money, or we're weaker - or at least not pushing upwards.

 

Aside from Nolan going I'm happy with our business so far because the players that have come in look to have talent, and that's what I want to see. If we want to move up the table though we'll have to spend money to at the very least replace the goals Carroll and Nolan scored last season, which was 40% of our total.

If you dont see the link between what happened with shepherd and souness and how it directly moulded our current transfer policy then there's no point for this debate. (This isn't me saying its all there fault bytheway)

For what its worth this shift in policy was apparent when allardyce was appointed, its not a new thing.

I agree with your point about Carroll, disagree about nolan, glad he's gone.

Regardless of everything this is a guy who plays well solely as a withdrawn forward, the 'Ben Arfa role'. Signing him would make no sense as he'd be backup in that position, and aren't we currently trying to make sure we don't have any expensive backups?

 

Mind, they could be thinking of crowbarring him in at CM or out wide...which is even stupider.

Aye, said this earlier, though I think Ben arfa will start as a left forward and drift in. Might get in each others way, might not. It's pardew call to make.

so we allegedly have this great worldwide scouting system and yet we're still interested in someone who hasnt played well for 2 years, was a joke and a failure here on loan, is incredibly weak, brittle and unstable mentally, has had one or two big injuries recently, and who, even at his best, is a good but limited mid-table to UEFA Cup standard player?

 

Now if he had the talent of a Ben Arfa, and it was the only way to get him, then i could see the reasoning. It would be a big risk, with all the warning signs flashing, and tbh, probably wouldn't work out. But you would be buying for the potential upside - the slim chance that the risk pays off. If it does, you get a world class player.

 

Now with Ireland, you get all the bad risks and downsides identified, but in the case of it working out, you only get a player who is....okay. decent. someone who had a promising season once a few years back. a lad who needs a side built around him only then to be half-decent rather than groundbreaking. quite simply not worth it. I know there's people on here who are advocating we sign Ireland but...listen to what's been said. Even the club are identifying him as a last resort, someone to go for on august 31st when all of our other options have been exhausted. I think they hope that never happens. I hope that never happens. If you actually hope that does happen, you're a goddamn idiot.

 

And that's not all, you can't look at buying Ireland in isolation. If we got him in - it would be instead of signing someone else. I'd rather have that "someone else" tyvm, especially with our allegedly great worldwide scouting system. there's plenty of good players out there who would play at SJP.

 

And why Barton's name has been brought into the mix i'll never know. They're different players who play in different positions. If you were talking about N'Zogbia there'd be a point to mentioning his name, but we're not.

Honest opinion is that I rate Ireland very very highly and feel he would regain his form in a 451/433, rather than playing him as a cm like they did at villa. We look to be playing that formation so I don't see the problem, providing he's economically viable.

I'm a football fan. I want to see good, hopefully winning football on the pitch, that's my primary reason for going. The wages of the players, whether high or low are ultimately of little concern to me; players are either useful or they're not. Luque was rubbish, Emre so-so and Owen overall a disaster because of his injuries, attitude towards his England place and lack of balls when it really mattered. His comments since leaving prove what a wanker he is. If he'd done the business though I wouldn't have cared about the silly money he was on, just like I didn't care when Shearer was on silly money. I follow Newcastle United the football club, not their bank balance.

 

As I said before, by no means am I claiming the finances don't matter. Beats me why everyone wants to be an amateur accountant these days, that's all.

To be honest Dave, I'm only on my phone and haven't got time to address everything I feel is wrong with that post, would we be having this debate had sounds made a success of that team? No.

What that era did highlight though was how important it is to enforce accountability and some form of sensible transfer plan.

If you're mainly bothered about the quality of football that's played surely you should only be interested in the quality of player we sign rather than how much we spend on them? Do marveuax/ba/cabaye and Ben arfa not indicate an intention to buy quality players?

Remember, players that cost a lot now were good players before they became well known.

Id say if you're not interested in the finances, then why comment on them so frequently?

Completely beyond me why people give a shit about wages. Provided we can afford it overall (and that's more sure than ever before) then as far as I'm concerned it's totally irrelevant if they're doing the business on the pitch.

 

'£40k per week would be a great deal' - based on what? If he's useless then £1k per week is far too much.

Relics of a bygone era.

So the wage becomes relevant if they're not doing the business?

There is nothing wrong in taking the sensible view of seeing what it may cost the club should they fail, its almost as if you've forgotten about luque, emre and Owen.

Why wouldn't you want to take a look at value for money when you've already been stung so badly before?

Edit: value for money isn't the same as cheap as possible.

Would people prefer barton in the centre over ireland? I'm almost certain we won't play with wingers next year.

 

I don't think either work there.

Personally, I see Ireland playing in the AM role of a midfield 3.

Everything I've read from people that watch French football regularly suggests he isn't cut out to play as the focal point of an attack anyway so our continued interest is a bit odd IMO.

 

I'm sure I've read that he can play on the right as well. Would tie in with our supposed pursuit of gervihno and zog as they all seem to play the same "right forward" role as well.

 

True, not really liking this lack of back to goal strikers we've been linked with. Think it is something we'll badly need next season, don't have it at the minute either unless you class Shola as an option which frankly I'd prefer not too.

Ba, perhaps?! Personally think there's 2 more strikers in this summer. You're right though, need a link up man.

Would people prefer barton in the centre over ireland? I'm almost certain we won't play with wingers next year.

Everything I've read from people that watch French football regularly suggests he isn't cut out to play as the focal point of an attack anyway so our continued interest is a bit odd IMO.

I'm sure I've read that he can play on the right as well. Would tie in with our supposed pursuit of gervihno and zog as they all seem to play the same "right forward" role as well.

Genuinely surprised at the amount of people turning their noses up at Ireland. He's a very talented footballer who's lost his way somewhat, obviously he's a bit of a prick but he strikes me as an 'arm around the shoulder' type guy, much like Ben arfa.

My only concern would be finding a role for him, his fee looks to be minimal, so that lessens the outlay with his larger wages but having him on the bench wouldn't sit well with him, which leads to his brattish attitude, unfortunately for him, his place is occupied by a supremely talented player.

Also, according to "El Mundo Deportivo" we have received a €18m for Thiago Alcántara from an unnamed club.

 

Why bother with Fabregas when you've got Thiago in your ranks? He'll turn out better than Fabregas.

 

Different players. Thiago is more of an AMC, Fábregas would fill in for Xavi.

 

Also, despite his undoubted quality, I'm afraid Thiago won't make it with us. He strikes me as very impatient and will want a move if he isn't starting regularly at the end of next season, which won't happen.

 

Cesc is attacking mid, plays centrally of the 3AM behind Van Persie and in front of the the 2DM. Good enough to play in xavi role but you'd be sacrificing a huge part of his game.

 

I know, but I'm pretty confident he could take a few steps back on the pitch and fill that role. Plus it's not like Xavi doesn't get near the box, Cesc can still exploit his final ball.

Aye, fair enough although I was thinking more his goal threat than his incisive passing. Cesc is one of the best 'operators' from 25yards out, I see him more in iniestas role than Xavi, gets into the box very frequently and its where his passing and finishing comes to life.

Already been said but Modric is the closest to Xavi. Modric and cesc are 2 completely different type of players now.

Also, according to "El Mundo Deportivo" we have received a €18m for Thiago Alcántara from an unnamed club.

 

Why bother with Fabregas when you've got Thiago in your ranks? He'll turn out better than Fabregas.

 

Different players. Thiago is more of an AMC, Fábregas would fill in for Xavi.

 

Also, despite his undoubted quality, I'm afraid Thiago won't make it with us. He strikes me as very impatient and will want a move if he isn't starting regularly at the end of next season, which won't happen.

Cesc is attacking mid, plays centrally of the 3AM behind Van Persie and in front of the the 2DM. Good enough to play in xavi role but you'd be sacrificing a huge part of his game.

I'd say this would be more Nolan's replacement than Cabaye.

I'm getting obsessed with what formation we're playing next season because I'm genuinely excited to see a bit of innovation on the pitch! So where does Ireland fit into all this??!

Never really quite grasped why there was so much hostility to him last season.

Totally agree, he had a set back a couple of weeks after he came, the fee is good so I imagine the club will be ok with the wages. Wouldn't mind this at all, he has a bellamy aura about him, prodigious talent but complete prick.

Lik

And? Why say what he did in May?

 

because he believed that Shearer would be giving the job? He only became disillusioned when things were going way too slow.

 

 

Like Duff and Bassong, he had a decent offer from a Premiership club and wanted to go. 90% of players would make the same decision in that situation.

 

Exactly.

 

People talk about the loyalty the players showed to us when we went down but how many of them would have stayed if they had the chance of a move to a Premiership team on similar wages in front of them?

 

I can't help but think that its a tad naive to assume the players just sat twiddling their thumbs hoping a club would make an offer for them. Agents are there to sound out interest and I find it hard to believe that someone with CL experience would have no suitors whatsoever. Same goes for a highly rated Spanish U21 left back. If there was interest in any player we'd of heard of it, no question. The fact we didn't suggest that perhaps they were loyal, to an extent at least.

 

 

 

So you presume people were interested but the reason we didn't hear about it is because they shot the interest down before it got to the club or papers?

 

 

 

Or perhaps that the players didn't seek out a move like they easily could have done?!

 

Colo and Jose struggled in our relegation season. They wouldn't have had many offers on the wages that they were on.

 

They both improved a fair bit during that year in the Championship.

 

No, sorry I just don't buy it, not only do I disagree about Jose being poor (Colo was) but I just don't buy into the idea that those 2 in particular with their calibre knew they weren't gonna get a better offer so didn't bother courting interest. Not hearing of any interest suggests that the agents didnt put the feelers out suggesting that perhaps they may have stayed out of loyalty.

 

What is your point exactly? We know players have agents but even the best agent won't get a shit player into a good club.

Colo and Jose weren't "shit" players for a start. A point was made earlier that Colo and Jose stayed cos no one was interested in them which I found hard to believe due to their reputations. If they wanted to leave they easily could have, in my opinion they stayed out of loyalty.

The last incoming signing that made me genuinely annoyed was Amady Faye. I reckon Gibson would top that

 

Dyer out, smith in has to be up there??! 

 

I was sick of Dyer spending half the season on the sidelines, returning from injury and tearing it up fo two or three games before turning to shite. Smith seemed like a decent buy at the time.

 

In hindsight I wish we could've sold Dyer and immediately burnt the money we received from his transfer so it could never have been spent on Smudger.

Smith pissed me off mainly because he was a replacement for dyer, in no way were they comparable. Dyer was one of my favourite player during our sir bobby days. Never liked smith, even when he was at Leeds, just a clogger In my books and even worse at man utd.

The last incoming signing that made me genuinely annoyed was Amady Faye. I reckon Gibson would top that

Dyer out, smith in has to be up there??! 

Lik

And? Why say what he did in May?

 

because he believed that Shearer would be giving the job? He only became disillusioned when things were going way too slow.

 

 

Like Duff and Bassong, he had a decent offer from a Premiership club and wanted to go. 90% of players would make the same decision in that situation.

 

Exactly.

 

People talk about the loyalty the players showed to us when we went down but how many of them would have stayed if they had the chance of a move to a Premiership team on similar wages in front of them?

 

I can't help but think that its a tad naive to assume the players just sat twiddling their thumbs hoping a club would make an offer for them. Agents are there to sound out interest and I find it hard to believe that someone with CL experience would have no suitors whatsoever. Same goes for a highly rated Spanish U21 left back. If there was interest in any player we'd of heard of it, no question. The fact we didn't suggest that perhaps they were loyal, to an extent at least.

 

 

 

So you presume people were interested but the reason we didn't hear about it is because they shot the interest down before it got to the club or papers?

 

 

 

Or perhaps that the players didn't seek out a move like they easily could have done?!

 

Colo and Jose struggled in our relegation season. They wouldn't have had many offers on the wages that they were on.

 

They both improved a fair bit during that year in the Championship.

No, sorry I just don't buy it, not only do I disagree about Jose being poor (Colo was) but I just don't buy into the idea that those 2 in particular with their calibre knew they weren't gonna get a better offer so didn't bother courting interest. Not hearing of any interest suggests that the agents didnt put the feelers out suggesting that perhaps they may have stayed out of loyalty.

So Liverpool have signed Adam. Hopefully he gets found out next season, I really dont get the hype around him.

Good signing for them, good player, will be way more effective in a team who has a lot of possession. Also has better options in front of him, could be a key player for them next season.

Lik

And? Why say what he did in May?

 

because he believed that Shearer would be giving the job? He only became disillusioned when things were going way too slow.

 

 

Like Duff and Bassong, he had a decent offer from a Premiership club and wanted to go. 90% of players would make the same decision in that situation.

 

Exactly.

 

People talk about the loyalty the players showed to us when we went down but how many of them would have stayed if they had the chance of a move to a Premiership team on similar wages in front of them?

 

I can't help but think that its a tad naive to assume the players just sat twiddling their thumbs hoping a club would make an offer for them. Agents are there to sound out interest and I find it hard to believe that someone with CL experience would have no suitors whatsoever. Same goes for a highly rated Spanish U21 left back. If there was interest in any player we'd of heard of it, no question. The fact we didn't suggest that perhaps they were loyal, to an extent at least.

 

 

 

So you presume people were interested but the reason we didn't hear about it is because they shot the interest down before it got to the club or papers?

 

 

Or perhaps that the players didn't seek out a move like they easily could have done?!

Lik

And? Why say what he did in May?

 

because he believed that Shearer would be giving the job? He only became disillusioned when things were going way too slow.

 

 

Like Duff and Bassong, he had a decent offer from a Premiership club and wanted to go. 90% of players would make the same decision in that situation.

 

Exactly.

 

People talk about the loyalty the players showed to us when we went down but how many of them would have stayed if they had the chance of a move to a Premiership team on similar wages in front of them?

I can't help but think that its a tad naive to assume the players just sat twiddling their thumbs hoping a club would make an offer for them. Agents are there to sound out interest and I find it hard to believe that someone with CL experience would have no suitors whatsoever. Same goes for a highly rated Spanish U21 left back. If there was interest in any player we'd of heard of it, no question. The fact we didn't suggest that perhaps they were loyal, to an extent at least.

I don't think we should push the boat out to sign Zoggy, now that we've got Ben Arfa and Marveaux on board.

 

Even £9m is over the odds for a player of his ability in the last year of his contract.

 

Do you think £9m is over the odds for a player of his abilty? If you don't think it is an inflated price for his ability then the point about his contract becomes moot.

 

 

 

Could we attract anyone a) better or b) if yes, cheaper?

 

I think the answer to both is no, so it's a no-brainer that we should pay whatever it takes (upto a certain limit of course but I think the limit is within our reach).

Precisely, I'm all for a bit of frugality but at £9m we're effectively talking about a buy-back clause of £3m!

Having said that, as much I'd love zog here (never wanted him to leave), I'd rather the money got put to a number 9.