fredbob
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Posts posted by fredbob
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He had potential 5 or 6 years ago. Why hasn't he significantly improved in that time?
Same as above- hate making excuses for him because he's been average at best throughout his career at Newcastle but he developed as a player during an extremely volatile time at the club.
Players with talent are able to develop in stable environments, look at how N'Zogbia has come on at Wigan (I can't think of any other promising youngsters who were at the club during these times).
As mentioned earlier, I also think Taylor would benefit from proper direction, he needs his role defined.
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I remember Souness saying he'd prepared a list of players for Shep, and that Shep nearly fell off his chair when he saw Owen on it.
Fucking topless Toon charvers worshipping Souness at the Owen unveiling was a gob smacking low in this club's history.
In hindsight.
Definitely at the time. As unlikely as I thought it was at the time, even if it had turned out ok, definitely.
You thought signing Owen was a low for the club at the time?
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Being the 'charger' requires positional discipline/intelligence too.
True but far less so than the other role, its also a role that is easier to coach.
Not that i'm trying to draw too many comparison but Terry is a player who blossomed relatively late in his career when Mourihno came aboard if i remeber correctly, around the same age as Taylor is now. I still think it'd be naive to get rid "because he's shit."
Also think the 'charger' role has alot to do with desire and determination and as much as i fucking hate cliches i think he has both and still can be worked on.
Like I say, if we want to build a squad then im happy with having him as a £5/6m squad player.
Relatively late? Terry was in his early 20's when Mourinho took charge.
24, no?
EDIT: The point that I'm really trying to make is that defenders usually show the kind of world class promise at an early stage in there career - L King, Sulazeer, Woodgate, Ferdinand and Terry is an exception if i remeber correctly, was close to being sold.
Not that im saying Taylor will be world class but he has potential to be a good defender is all.
The only reason Terry was close to being sold (SBR tried to buy him) was because of the fact Chelsea were in dire straights financially. We also tried to get him on the cheap (£9 million) and were knocked back straight away.
So what's your point, Taylor doesnt have the potential to be a good defender?!
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Being the 'charger' requires positional discipline/intelligence too.
True but far less so than the other role, its also a role that is easier to coach.
Not that i'm trying to draw too many comparison but Terry is a player who blossomed relatively late in his career when Mourihno came aboard if i remeber correctly, around the same age as Taylor is now. I still think it'd be naive to get rid "because he's shit."
Also think the 'charger' role has alot to do with desire and determination and as much as i fucking hate cliches i think he has both and still can be worked on.
Like I say, if we want to build a squad then im happy with having him as a £5/6m squad player.
Relatively late? Terry was in his early 20's when Mourinho took charge.
24, no?
EDIT: The point that I'm really trying to make is that defenders usually show the kind of world class promise at an early stage in there career - L King, Sulazeer, Woodgate, Ferdinand and Terry is an exception if i remeber correctly, was close to being sold.
Not that im saying Taylor will be world class but he has potential to be a good defender is all.
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£6m? Tell the nurse to lower your medication next time you see her.
Aye ok then. His stock is still reasonably high in the media, he's still got time on his side for a defender and he's also English.
£6m is par for the course.
He's worth whatever people are willing to pay for him and if you can't see another club willing to take a £6m punt on him then you need to see my nurse.
Who is going to pay £6m for him then?
Of the likely candidates Villa don't need him, Everton can't afford him, Spurs/Liverpool/Stoke don't need him. Mackems wouldn't buy him.
Barcelona and Arsenal, innit.
Bit strange of you to decide which teams need what and who can afford what dont ya think?!
But because I'm not a total cock and I am willing to answer things put to me I'd say Bolton would be a club that I could see going fr him...
Not really. Think it used to be called having an opinion. Be flabbergasted if Bolton spend £6m on a defender bearing in mind they've just signed Wheater and Knight has been playing well.
Ahhhh the old 'your opinion is wrong' because 'my opinion is right' manouvere. Nice one.
Like I say, I think it's perfectly feasible for a team like Bolton to be casting eyes our way, especially if Cahill gets sold.
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Being the 'charger' requires positional discipline/intelligence too.
True but far less so than the other role, its also a role that is easier to coach.
Not that i'm trying to draw too many comparison but Terry is a player who blossomed relatively late in his career when Mourihno came aboard if i remeber correctly, around the same age as Taylor is now. I still think it'd be naive to get rid "because he's shit."
Also think the 'charger' role has alot to do with desire and determination and as much as i fucking hate cliches i think he has both and still can be worked on.
Like I say, if we want to build a squad then im happy with having him as a £5/6m squad player.
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£6m? Tell the nurse to lower your medication next time you see her.
Aye ok then. His stock is still reasonably high in the media, he's still got time on his side for a defender and he's also English.
£6m is par for the course.
He's worth whatever people are willing to pay for him and if you can't see another club willing to take a £6m punt on him then you need to see my nurse.
Who is going to pay £6m for him then?
Of the likely candidates Villa don't need him, Everton can't afford him, Spurs/Liverpool/Stoke don't need him. Mackems wouldn't buy him.
Barcelona and Arsenal, innit.
Bit strange of you to decide which teams need what and who can afford what dont ya think?!
But because I'm not a total cock and I amwilling to answer things put to me I'd say Bolton would be a club that I could see going fr him...
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Needs to be the player who's constantly attacking the ball, unfortunately he plays like the "intelligent" one who wants to read the game and sweep up when that should clearly be left to Colo.
If he's worth £6m (which he is) then at the moment he's a £6m squad player which is fine for me. Willo edges it at the moment.
He's not error prone in the same sense that Bramble was/is but he's making basic defending errors which are coming as a result of his undefined role.
To defend?
To be the defender who comes out to meet the ball at all times, make blocks dominates strikers physically, be the terry/campbell type defender. His basic errors for me come as a result of his abysmal positioning which is a reflection of his inaiblity to play the colo role due to his lack of anticipation and inabilityto read a game.
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£6m? Tell the nurse to lower your medication next time you see her.
Aye ok then. His stock is still reasonably high in the media, he's still got time on his side for a defender and he's also English.
£6m is par for the course.
He's worth whatever people are willing to pay for him and if you can't see another club willing to take a £6m punt on him then you need to see my nurse.
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Needs to be the player who's constantly attacking the ball, unfortunately he plays like the "intelligent" one who wants to read the game and sweep up when that should clearly be left to Colo.
If he's worth £6m (which he is) then at the moment he's a £6m squad player which is fine for me. Willo edges it at the moment.
He's not error prone in the same sense that Bramble was/is but he's making basic defending errors which are coming as a result of his undefined role.
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I remember Souness saying he'd prepared a list of players for Shep, and that Shep nearly fell off his chair when he saw Owen on it.
Fucking topless Toon charvers worshipping Souness at the Owen unveiling was a gob smacking low in this club's history.
In hindsight.
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Of course it does, and I never said otherwise.
How come that makes him the definition of an away player?
Because he's a far more effective player when he simply sits in front of the defence and stifles. Look at his 3 best performances and 3 worst performances and a pattern will emerge.
When he's expected to cover more ground, the recovery tackles come flying in and so does the occasional bad pass. He's still our best midfielder by a mile, don't get me wrong.
Agree with this. Was concerned when Pardew commented on how he'd like Tiote to contribute more going forward, if its not broke dont fix it.
Tiote is the player who will make the team tick and to get the best out of Tiote he needs to be surrounded by attack minded players, for me his only job should be the makelele role - break down opposition play then pass to said players.
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I don't think he's realistic, but I'd hope we at least enquire about Adam Johnson at City.
Personally think he'd be unattainable, if we were to scavenge someone from Citeh i'd definitely be having a look up north at Weiss, think he's a great player in the making. Think he can play all over the midfield as well.
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Is it unfair to say that in the glossy, money orientated world of top flight football that "club identity"means precisely fuck all nowadays?! Not my choice but isn't it a reality?
If it is a reality then isn't all this nostalgic, fairytale nonsense completely and utterly irrelevant? All clubs have there iconic numbers and traditions but they're quickly set aside when reality kicks in.
I see a lot of people pumping out the figure £60k as though its a reasonalbe healthy compromise for all parties concerned when the reality is that it isn't at all. With that in mind, should the club adhere to the players demand or as stated take a step back and re negotiate in the summer...
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Still, both Tottenham (many) and Villa (Bent, Makoun) have been able to replace those who have left.
Everton however is a special case, and struggle. But they still have Baines (which many compare to Enrique), that Afro-dude Fellaini (?), Arteta and Tim Cahill, Jack Rodwell and Jagielka.
But I don't see why Newcastle can't do they same as Villa and Tottenham, if Ashley is not a stingy and unambitious chairman (as some of you argue)?
Because Villa and Spurs had both been run notoroiusly tightly in the past and are benefitting now from that frugality. We on the otherhand had an terminally underperforming squad and very little manouverability for wages.
Anyway don't want to de rail this thread, I'm oooot.
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Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th.
Sources:
http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table
Come on Dave, you're better than this.
2009-10 8th
2007-08 5th
2006-07 6th
2005-06 11th
2004-05 4th
2003-04 17th
2002-03 7th
2001-02 15th
2000-01 16th
1999-2000 13th
2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend.
My point was that Everton were perfectly capable of finishing 4th that year anyway. They were clear in 4th halfway through the season, before they even had chance to 'strengthen' with the Rooney money. They hardly spent extravagantly in January to ensure that finish either. The year after they actually went backwards, a lot.
Rubbish example, IMO.
There's just too much detail to this and I dont have the time to give you a respectable reply. What I will say though is that, I dont think Everton were ever in a position to make signings such as Yakubu, Saha, Jagielka, Lescott and Arteta etc had rooney not been sold.
The league positions would suggest that they're better off as a club after the sale of Rooney. To me there just seems no way that as a club they could have managed to have kept rooney, built a sqaud capable qualifying for the group stage, qualifying for the group stages AND qualifying for the CL the following year, without significantly gambling the safety of the club. It just doesnt seem feasible.
What a frustratingly shit reply.
EDIT: I think you need to look at Evertyons squad 2004-2005 to see how much they overacheived and how much they needed to improve in order to compete at any level in the CL.
I do remember a club who did gamble all that to qualify for the CL - can't remember the name of the team though or what subsequently happened to them...
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Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th.
Sources:
http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table
Come on Dave, you're better than this.
2009-10 8th
2007-08 5th
2006-07 6th
2005-06 11th
2004-05 4th
2003-04 17th
2002-03 7th
2001-02 15th
2000-01 16th
1999-2000 13th
2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend.
My point was that Everton were perfectly capable of finishing 4th that year anyway. They were clear in 4th halfway through the season, before they even had chance to 'strengthen' with the Rooney money. They hardly spent extravagantly in January to ensure that finish either. The year after they actually went backwards, a lot.
Rubbish example, IMO.
There's just too much detail to this and I dont have the time to give you a respectable reply. What I will say though is that, I dont think Everton were ever in a position to make signings such as Yakubu, Saha, Jagielka, Lescott and Arteta etc had rooney not been sold.
The league positions would suggest that they're better off as a club after the sale of Rooney. To me there just seems no way that as a club they could have managed to have kept rooney, built a sqaud capable qualifying for the group stage, qualifying for the group stages AND qualifying for the CL the following year, without significantly gambling the safety of the club. It just doesnt seem feasible.
What a frustratingly shit reply.
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Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th.
Sources:
http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table
Come on Dave, you're better than this.
2009-10 8th
2007-08 5th
2006-07 6th
2005-06 11th
2004-05 4th
2003-04 17th
2002-03 7th
2001-02 15th
2000-01 16th
1999-2000 13th
2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend.
What are you implying then? That Everton strengthened the squad by selling their best player and not buying anyone?
If they'd kept Rooney, they might have won that Champions League qualifier and who knows what that money would have done for them? They'd probably have gotten as much for that as they did for Rooney, but they'd still have had him.
Everton are the perfect example of what not to do when you've got good players. Simple stuff this like.
To be honest, I was just showing the other side of the coin.
Can't really be bothered to give you a proper reply because I usually get pure crap out of you.
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Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th.
Sources:
http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table
Come on Dave, you're better than this.
2009-10 8th
2007-08 5th
2006-07 6th
2005-06 11th
2004-05 4th
2003-04 17th
2002-03 7th
2001-02 15th
2000-01 16th
1999-2000 13th
2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend.
Is that no what Dave just said?
More the implication that Everton haven't benefitted from the sale of Rooney when there league positions post Rooney suggest otherwise, that was the point we were debating wasn't it?!
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Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th.
Sources:
http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table
Come on Dave, you're better than this.
2009-10 8th
2007-08 5th
2006-07 6th
2005-06 11th
2004-05 4th
2003-04 17th
2002-03 7th
2001-02 15th
2000-01 16th
1999-2000 13th
2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend.
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Everton have done blindingly since they sold Rooney like. One Champions League qualifier, which they lost. Get the bunting out.
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I just can't see how the squad will be improved - at all, never mind 'significantly' - by selling our best players. And if we spend a shitload of money simply replacing them, what exactly was the point?
This is just assuming that all we'll do is replace the players whilst not strengthening other areas of the squad.
Just how much money do you think we will spend?!
Approximately £10m net.
What will happen though is that we'll make a profit. Enrique will go and Tiote will go they'll both be adequately replaced at a fraction of the price and we'll still add to the strength of the squad in other areas (on paper) whilst not spending more than what we've recieved. There will be huge uproar from the crowd, we'll be in turmoil again at the begninng of the season the squad performances will suffer - Pardew will be made the scapegoat we get a new manager things start to improve we put together a decent run, get a decent league positions and the transfer window spend is validated in Ashley's eyes, repeat ad nauseam.
In my eyes I see a squad that has improved irrespective of the amount of money spent, I see no reason to be in uproar. In reality the majority won't see it that way.
Maybe the majority are right.
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I just can't see how the squad will be improved - at all, never mind 'significantly' - by selling our best players. And if we spend a shitload of money simply replacing them, what exactly was the point?
This is just assuming that all we'll do is replace the players whilst not strengthening other areas of the squad. That's a pretty absolute scenario.
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aye, one way or the other.Personally, I just can't see things in a positive light. It may be because I'm a miserable b****** but for me, getting rid of Hughton and selling Carroll were two huge mistakes.. The kind of mistakes that can destroy a club. I know that we have to move on and the players seem to have done just that, still I can't help but feel disillusioned about Ashley's tenure.. I'd prefer to be optimistic like but there's nothing I can do about it, it all comes from the heart.
The sale of Carroll also has the potential to make this club. This summer is going to be a big one.
Personally, I'm not bothered about what percentage of Carroll's transfer is spent, only that whatever is spent is done so in the best interests of the playing squad and that gaps are filled and filled proficiently, which in my opinion have been a strong point of the Ashley 'reign'.
Is Mike Ashley the worst person ever to have been associated with NUFC?
in Football
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I'll agree with the unveiling and drama attached to the signing, I also will go as far as saying that his signing came in pretty insulting circumstances but for me it was a very very good signing, even with his dubious injury record he was a great signing.
We needed a striker to eventually replace Shearer, I cant see too many reasons beyond his injury record to suggest that he couldn't do the job.