fredbob

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

They expanded on something he said when naming his dream signing as Henry. I would also not have been surprised if he'd said "Man City are after Ronaldinho - if they can why can't we" (fair question).

 

The Lampard one though is daft - even Keegan at his "daftest" wouldn't have expected Lampard to leave Chelsea for us.

Then it seems like an easy thing to turn back onto the club using his god like status aroung newcastle if it werent true.

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

You dont respect Keegan for not wanting to get into a childish mud-slinging match through the press ?

Two ways of looking at it. I prefer to assume Keegan wouldnt lower himself to such levels.

Thats not the point though - the point was whether it was true or if it isnt - the nature of the "leak" suggest to me that it was true which is why you have to ask yourself was keegan really rowing in the same direction as the club reagrading transfer policies - and if not - why? and what should the boards response be if it IS the case?

To me the only response would be to sack Keegan or undermine him.

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

 

If you can't see the s*** hit the fan from Milner's sale up until that time you really are blind. Broken promises, lack of signings, attempted sales - that's what a deadline does.

 

 

 

I may of got this completely wrong but straight after the milner sale there was that video interview/press conference about it and he there was no inkling of any  issues reagrading the sale of Milner  that seemed to be bubbling under the surface - in fact alot of this board were jizzing themselves at the prospect of "3-4 signings" that may be coming in. It was that video where he confirm that that Zayatte or whatever his name was was on trial with us.....

 

Aye but the idea is that KK was told that the Milner sale could be positive thing as it would trigger 3or 4 signings.

 

Now:

 

A. They should have been looking for at least 3or 4 signings ANYWAY.

 

B. They didn't happen and instead two "panic" buys were made.

 

This is pretty central though I still think its the attempted sales which was more crucial.

 

 

A - Agreed - before this all blew up i was ready to say that i was massively dissapointed with the window - the signings we made in my opinion were excellent and the performance against Man U reiterated that but they werent enough - quantity wise.

Keegan didnt say anything about attempted sales - his quote was "player shouldnt be forced onto him that he didnt want" suggesting he didnt want Xisco or Nacho.

B - if 3-4 signings were on there way after the milner sale - wouldnt that suggest that we DID make attempt to sign players but they didnt come off - who can you blame for that.

The only way that B carries weight was that Keegan was lied to about the 3-4 signings and they were never on the cards in the first place - but even that would contradict the signings of nacho and xisco.

 

The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans.

 

But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner.

 

He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did.

 

The buck stops with the owner.

 

So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable?

 

the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things.

 

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

and which 'one' was that?

humour me.....

Blood.

 

The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans.

 

But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner.

 

He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did.

 

The buck stops with the owner.

So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable?

the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things.

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

 

If you can't see the s*** hit the fan from Milner's sale up until that time you really are blind. Broken promises, lack of signings, attempted sales - that's what a deadline does.

 

 

I may of got this completely wrong but straight after the milner sale there was that video interview/press conference about it and he there was no inkling of any  issues reagrading the sale of Milner  that seemed to be bubbling under the surface - in fact alot of this board were jizzing themselves at the prospect of "3-4 signings" that may be coming in. It was that video where he confirm that that Zayatte or whatever his name was was on trial with us.....

I dont think the protests were proportionate to the problem, i dont doubt for one second that Ashley was unsafe in the ground and that is a sad state of affairs - especially with the relationship we have with teh southern hacks who will of been licking there lips.

I had no problem about with protests or voicing your concerns but all this "cockney mafia out" and buying the club bollocks has done nothing but damamaged us exponentially and the blame for that lies with the somewhat delusional fans who didnt have the patience to see an owners badly started plan come anywhere near to fruition.

We are univestable unless someone is looking for a Toy - there arent many of those about.

So in conclusion, yes the fans are to blame a little, as is Keegan, as is Wise and as is Ashley.

I think Keegan DID have full say on transfers and DID choose who wwent and came but he targeted the wrong type of players, like Dunne and Riise and becasue of this Wise et all had to take hold of the reigns becasue it "contravened" the policy that the board wanted to implement. Which was THE most important thing.

 

Even if true Dunne and Riise are a hell of a lot better than what he have now.

 

 

 

good point...nothing to do whatsoever with mine though.

Where are people getting this bollocks that he agreed to the system?

 

Do you honestly believe he agreed to have no say over transfers? Really. If you do, I don't think you know Keegan so well.

 

Here are the things we know:

 

- KK in his opening press conference as new manager says he knows that the money is there if we need it, and that it is "almost a minimum requirement in the premiership these days".

 

- Wise is appointed, and says that Keegan has final say on all transfers.

 

- KK, Mort, and Ashley all concur that Keegan has final say.

 

- KK resigns, citing the reason that he did not have "the right to manage" and had players forced upon him.

 

They are all of the facts that we have so far.

 

How do people draw a conclusion that he agreed to this system?

 

(ps. Don't say that the statement released by the club said that he agreed to it, because it didn't. It said he agreed to the structure, but doesn't mention him having no say on transfers.)

Bit of a straw man that.

Those 2 things arent my view at all, in fact i dont that thats the case whatsoever. Seems to be the argument of a lot of people use against structure. I think Keegan DID have full say on transfers and DID choose who wwent and came but he targeted the wrong type of players, like Dunne and Riise and becasue of this Wise et all had to take hold of the reigns becasue it "contravened" the policy that the board wanted to implement. Which was THE most important thing.

 

But it certainly doesn't make someone clueless.

 

If you and others can't see that then that's a shame. For the record I'm not a Geordie and I've never been comfortable with the suggestion that my location makes me much less of a fan.

 

 

 

 

I quite like the idea of you foreigners supporting our mongrel of a club.

 

i have nothing against them supporting the club but when they come out with clueless comments like in the OP they deserve every bit of stick they get.

 

So what if someone from Newcastle makes comment similar to it. I see alot of homegrown posters who seem to genreally agree with the OP- me included.

I think i've already mentioned this. If the person that made the opening post was from newcastle i would still of had a go at them

 

So his nationality and place of origin has aboslutley no relevant to his post yet you still mentioned it like a clueless idiot.

 

I will mention it if i want. There is nothing wrong with what i have said.

 

If thats what you honestly believe and think is correct then i shouldnt of wasted my time and just stuck with "t***".

 

that is fine with me 

twat.  

Laughable thread this.

 

Before people open their mouth on this subject, you should think about what you would do in your job if your bosses undermimed you to the point where you would still be held accountable for the work you do, without having any control over the tools with which you do it.

 

I don't think any of you would stick around under the same circumstances, unless you were just in it for the money and didn't actually give a s***.

What happens if the boss gives you a criteria that you need to adhere to but you dont and is forced to undermine you becasue of that fact? I choose to believe that side of the story just like you choose to believe the other. I believe this because i feel that the "leak" by the board memeber regardign Ronaldihno was actually true. it had a "deny it if you dare element to it". Also some of the alleged Keegan targets, Duinne etc, didnt seem to fit in with the defined policy.

Just opinions.

 

But it certainly doesn't make someone clueless.

 

If you and others can't see that then that's a shame. For the record I'm not a Geordie and I've never been comfortable with the suggestion that my location makes me much less of a fan.

 

 

 

 

I quite like the idea of you foreigners supporting our mongrel of a club.

 

i have nothing against them supporting the club but when they come out with clueless comments like in the OP they deserve every bit of stick they get.

 

So what if someone from Newcastle makes comment similar to it. I see alot of homegrown posters who seem to genreally agree with the OP- me included.

I think i've already mentioned this. If the person that made the opening post was from newcastle i would still of had a go at them

 

So his nationality and place of origin has aboslutley no relevant to his post yet you still mentioned it like a clueless idiot.

 

I will mention it if i want. There is nothing wrong with what i have said.

If thats what you honestly believe and think is correct then i shouldnt of wasted my time and just stuck with "twat".

 

But it certainly doesn't make someone clueless.

 

If you and others can't see that then that's a shame. For the record I'm not a Geordie and I've never been comfortable with the suggestion that my location makes me much less of a fan.

 

 

 

 

I quite like the idea of you foreigners supporting our mongrel of a club.

 

i have nothing against them supporting the club but when they come out with clueless comments like in the OP they deserve every bit of stick they get.

 

So what if someone from Newcastle makes comment similar to it. I see alot of homegrown posters who seem to genreally agree with the OP- me included.

I think i've already mentioned this. If the person that made the opening post was from newcastle i would still of had a go at them

So his nationality and place of origin has aboslutley no relevant to his post yet you still mentioned it like a clueless idiot.

 

But it certainly doesn't make someone clueless.

 

If you and others can't see that then that's a shame. For the record I'm not a Geordie and I've never been comfortable with the suggestion that my location makes me much less of a fan.

 

I quite like the idea of you foreigners supporting our mongrel of a club.

 

i have nothing against them supporting the club but when they come out with clueless comments like in the OP they deserve every bit of stick they get.

So what if someone from Newcastle makes comment similar to it. I see alot of homegrown posters who seem to genreally agree with the OP- me included.

If you weren't in the area 92-97 you couldn't fully appreciate the magic. If that constitutes being racist (or ageist) on here, fine.

 

 

Agree, too many pro Ashley, anti keegan muppets, werent around, so havent got a clue what they are talking about.

 

 

 

Here we go again.

It's right though. KK should have a lifetime's worth of goodwill banked with us for what he's done here in the past. Instead clueless brats are sticking the boot in within a fortnight.

By that token so should Shepherd et al, but people seemed to be entitled to their opinion with regards to them.

Silly logic.

It's cheap playing the race card. Toon Argy has every right to dispute the credibility of his support.

 

If someone from London came on here banging on about how great his Man Utd were, you'd have a field day.

 

He has absolutely no right whatsoever to use someone's country of origin as an insult. Get a grip man.

I'm not using it as an insult. I find that offensive what you have just said. I have said nothing racist.

 

"Korean Mong"

 

f***ing idiot

is he korean?

Didnt you just imply he was?

 

 

 

Ah sorry. The thread starters location is Korea. Now i know why he is such a mong and is clueless.  

Embaressed for you mnate - you truly are a dickhead.

It's cheap playing the race card. Toon Argy has every right to dispute the credibility of his support.

 

If someone from London came on here banging on about how great his Man Utd were, you'd have a field day.

 

He has absolutely no right whatsoever to use someone's country of origin as an insult. Get a grip man.

I'm not using it as an insult. I find that offensive what you have just said. I have said nothing racist.

"Korean Mong"

Fucking idiot

Ah sorry. The thread starters location is Korea. Now i know why he is such a mong and is clueless. 

 

Fu Mong Chu

 

Yes, insulting the fact that I'm not a Geordie is a perfectly logical way to justify your blinkered trust in a man from Doncaster.

 

His dad was a Geordie and he gave us two great years as a player and five as our manager.

 

What's your connection to our club, apart from picking us with a pin in the Panini sticker album?

 

 

yes, promoted us as captain, and manager, the only things weve achieved in the 25years since i bought my first season ticket.

 

during that 25 years , the keegan ones are the seasons i really felt we were up there with the best.

 

looks like he may have to come back next season and get us promoted again.

You forgot to mention where he he finished with us as manager.

I move to change the name of this thread to "I am super itelligent accountant, look what I can do with numbers". That way we can let the likes ChezGiven, Macbeth and Scott Parker's haircut, stroke their collective egos without having to hide behind the mask of a "Shepherd was s***" thread.

 

Do you honestly think that I am stroking my ego here? Trust me, being an accountant is not top of any egotistical stucture!

 

All I'm doing is trying to dampen down the flames of 'administration' etc through pointing out what I've experienced - for the record I worked for the worlds top accountancy firm for 4 years have a chartered qualification and have worked on the audit of Manchester United - I have a fair idea how football accounts work (ok that bit was ego massaging).

 

If anyone took a premier league football club into administration they need shooting, it should be virtually impossible - Leeds were a Championship club when they went in btw.

 

As I said I haven't seen the auditors report in the accounts but it would be VERY unusual to issue a 'clean' audit report with the provision that x amount of cash is injected, either the cash is guaranteed and the report is clean or it is not guaranteed and the report modified to show the club not being in a going concern basis.

 

I'll repeat a point I made earlier, Companies can recover from havng an audit report showing them not to be in a going concern position, of course just a smany don't but its not simply a case of 'not a going concern' = 'administration'. Conversly many companies who go into administration had a perfectly healthy balance sheet at the previous year end.

 

As for the Shepherd is s*** argument, I've tried to remain neutral in this thread, but fwiw:

 

Shepherd - tried his best for the good of the club AND himself. He wanted a succesful club and he wanted the rewards for it. He bollocked up in the timing of sacking Bobby and the appointments after that were disasterous. But rightly or wrongly he gambled high stakes to get us back in the top 4, unfortunately his managerial appointments rendered the cash impotent in many ways. His time was up when Ashley came in. I also don't think that he and Doug should have returned to the club after the fake Sheik sting.

 

Ashley - had/has a vision and it is a longer term approach. Again he bollocked up in his appointments of both Wise and Keegan. I (like many) was caught up in the emotion of Keegan coming back, but looking back it was never going to last. Given time I do believe that Ashleys vision could bear fruit, but it would take a season or 2 to rebuild. A large enough percentage of fans are not prepared to wait for this.

 

I fully understand NE5's viewpoint, I'm sure then manner in a lot of what he says is for effect though.

 

Conversley though, I was a big supporter of Ashley, and was prepared to see where he was going to go post Keegan. Unfortunately though I think it has reached the point where anything he does will be ridiculed by fans and again his time has come and gone.

 

A final point, I have no axe to grind with MacBeth or anyone else who comments on the finances of the club, however puttnig together http://www.football-finances.org.uk/ suggests a financial expert has compiled the website - I wouldn't attempt to do something like this without knowing what is behind the numbers as you only have one viewpoint on the website. Its a good website, but it is flawed. I have simply tried to explain why I think some of his statements are exaggerated.

 

Oh and Dave, I know my English is crap - thats why i went into numbers (and use spell checker on my professional work!)

Great post. 

 

This is a key question that people dont seem to be asking themselves - is there actually anything that could happen in 3 days that could force your hand that much - especially as it didnt seem that much of an issue throughout the summer with the likes of Colo, Jonas being brought in in similar circumstances.

 

To resign afer the last day of the transfer window is quiet unbelievable if you ask me, how much can you truly love the club  if it takes you 1 day to decide that enoughs enough - especially after it being your third time doing the exact same thing.

 

Its not just about 3 days though is it. This has obviously been building for some time. i had forgotten up until recently about the meeting in London that Keegan was called to after the Chelsea outburst. Something has been building for a while - before any signings even appeared on the scene

 

Well done for seeing this, many cant connect all the stories in the press from May onwards with what happened.

 

2 observations; why wait till the end of the window if he was unhappy for months beforehand? why lie to the fans?

 

Interesting thought, Chez. Do you have any facts to back that up?

 

Aye, posted this elsewhere, in retrospect they are more observations than facts and when i posted it, it was to try and put some perspective on the boycotts etc. 

 

Fact 1. Kevin Keegan was not happy with the structure of the club at the end of last season.

Fact 2. The media reported this with such certainty and frequency that everyone thought they were twats.

Fact 3. The only way the media could have heard this is if someone was feeding them the information.

Fact 4. You'd need to be a special type of retard to think Louise Taylor was hiding behind the curtain in the boardroom of SJP to have been in possession of this story.

Fact 5. You'd need to be a special type of retard to think that Ashley was briefing the media against himself.

Fact 6. You'd now have to be a spectacular retard if you havent worked out that it was actually Keegan who was briefing the media all summer about his dissatisfaction with the way the club was being run.

Fact 7. Of the 4 players brought in during the middle part of the summer all of them were, in his own words, signed off by Keegan and turned out to be fabulous looking purchases.

Fact 8. This means Keegan was signing off excellent value for money players whilst at the same time briefing the media against the club's structure.

Fact 9. If Keegan was briefing the media against the club, then the structure under which he was working was already not to his satisfaction.

Fact 10. Therefore none of the events of the weekend before the transfer window shut were the cause of his unhappiness at the club.

Fact 11. Kevin Keegan has a history of political power plays at football clubs.

 

All the evidence backing this up is in here

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48889.0

 

Some people might think the club has moved on from this debate but to me its at the heart of everything that is happening. Unless we establish what happened we cant move forward and conclude whether Ashley should have gone. The fact that people have continued to assume he is guilty on the basis of 3 quotes put out by Keegan via the LMA just shows how little basis anyone has had for rupturing the club into little pieces.

 

An Ashley out campaign should have only started once the facts were estbalished, the fact that they were already in full swing on tuesday 2nd september, 2008 shows us that the campaign is based on a foundation of sand as none of the facts were known then. Guilt was assumed and then every effort was made to retrospectively justify the judgement. 

 

 

If he had the best interests of the club at heart, he should have left when the first stories were being leaked into the press, as in May. Not September 2nd.

 

*f***ing enormous tin hat on*

 

 

I understand your point, but surely this could be countered easily by saying that maybe he was trying to work things out rather than run at the first sign of trouble (which many seem to be accusing him of).

 

So he was happy to work under it all summer during the transfer window but then not happy to work under it during the actual season when the focus is on the first team?

 

It isnt easily countered as that makes no sense.

 

It is easily countered.

 

He was happy to try and work it out over the summer in the hope that the setup would provide the players he needed.

When the setup fails miserably in providing the LB, cover RB, RW,  and AM, whilst also selling a good RW, I think that is reason to "push someone over the edge" as it transpires.

but found out it was unworkable on the last day of the season and promptly resigned?

 

This is a key question that people dont seem to be asking themselves - is there actually anything that could happen in 3 days that could force your hand that much - especially as it didnt seem that much of an issue throughout the summer with the likes of Colo, Jonas being brought in in similar circumstances.

 

To resign afer the last day of the transfer window is quiet unbelievable if you ask me, how much can you truly love the club  if it takes you 1 day to decide that enoughs enough - especially after it being your third time doing the exact same thing.

 

Its not just about 3 days though is it. This has obviously been building for some time. i had forgotten up until recently about the meeting in London that Keegan was called to after the Chelsea outburst. Something has been building for a while - before any signings even appeared on the scene

Then what happened to his priciples when they were first crossed? Also, doesnt that make it more damning that he left at such a ridiculous time in spite of the fact that he knew things were like they were?

P.S Im not pro 'blind faith' Ashley and Anti Keegan, just a bit of perspective - (although contradictaly i do back Ashley in this situation because i liked what he was doing and what he wanted to do).

Kevin Keegan is a coward.

 

He's deserted us, betrayed our trust, and left us for dead. "If" we are relegated this season, he should be remembered as one of the great villains in club history.

 

I don't care how bad the situation was. There was no justification for walking out when he did. It's simply a case of him putting his pride (or principles, or whatever you want to call it) before the good of the club he claimed to love. What situation if any would convince YOU to resign as manager of Newcastle United on September 1st? He should have never taken the job in the first place, walked out the moment he was undermined in the transfer window, or saw out the season.

 

For those of you who say he couldn't have known what would happen. Really? Is it that hard to imagine that KK walking out would cause massive fan discontent, which would make Ashley's position untenable? Many of us on the board were predicting the exact situation we are in now the moment the news broke.

 

For those of you who say he simply had his bluff called by Ashley and never really meant to leave. That changes nothing, the fact is, at any point he could have come to his senses, swallowed his pride, and come back.

 

 

Now, I'm not saying that the blame for our current crisis lies solely on KK's door. He and Ashley and Wise/Vertre/Llambias are all equally culpable.

 

But you know what? I don't hold those other people to the same standards I used to hold KK. I trusted that man absolutely, unconditionally, unequivocally. He's betrayed that trust and left us in freefall.

 

He's gone down in my estimation.

This is a key question that people dont seem to be asking themselves - is there actually anything that could happen in 3 days that could force your hand that much - especially as it didnt seem that much of an issue throughout the summer with the likes of Colo, Jonas being brought in in similar circumstances.

To resign afer the last day of the transfer window is quiet unbelievable if you ask me, how much can you truly love the club  if it takes you 1 day to decide that enoughs enough - especially after it being your third time doing the exact same thing.

So all these people who want ashley out ideally want some super rich businessman to replace him then so we can get some instant success? Right? And yet have the audacity to say we misunderstood by the media.