fredbob

I know this is a s*** situation, I know everyone's upset and I know I'm likely to get a load of s*** for saying what I've got to say, but I'm going to say it anyway.

 

Do some of you support NUFC or KKFC? It seems that to a lot of people Keegan is way more important than the club, all those saying that their finished with the club, what the f*** are you on about!?! Perhaps Keegan could set up his own team and you could go and support them instead, seriously I know people are emotional at the moment but get a f***ing grip!!

 

I like Kevin Keegan, I think he's a great bloke and a decent manager, I think he gets his teams to play football the way it should be played and I'm grateful to him for turning things around for us and getting the club back on its feet. I've also got a huge amount of respect for him for his previous time at NUFC, both as manager and as a player, his arrival in the eighties coinciding with the start of my interest in the club.

 

But the Kevin Keegan I like exists in reality, he has faults and makes mistakes, I still like him. He's stubborn and forces a situation to the extent that it causes the club a huge amount of damage, I still like him. He says he cares about the fans and the club, but doesn't say anything for three days whilst all kinds of s*** is kicking off to the detriment of the club and the fans - although they don't seem to realise it - when a simple statement from him could have calmed the situation and protected the club from damage, I still like him.

 

The Kevin Keegan a lot of people seem to worship at the alter of is a myth, he is portrayed as someone who can do no wrong, who is totally selfless and devotes his existence to the furtherance of NUFC with no thought whatsoever to his own well being. He is a god and every word he utters is gospel - even when he contradicts what he said previously - but not only that he is a victim, he is weak and needs protection from the nasty cockneys who were out to get him from the start and are secretly trying to bring us down in the hope that it might benefit Spurs. Keegan is the lord and we will die, or rather kill on his behalf - even if the only thing that dies is the club we're supposed to love.

 

Now what's going to happen if it turns out that Keegan is not entirely blameless in all this?

 

Well, I'll still like him.

 

You on the other hand are left with a choice:

 

Have your illusion shattered, your idol fallen, your dreams dashed and kneejerk totally to the opposite, forever hating his guts and cursing his name.

 

or:

 

Deny reality, continue on with your delusion and pretend things aren't how they really are, shout and scream and bawl out anyone who disagrees with your faith.

 

Because I'm telling you now, no-one, not even Keegan is blameless in this. They've all played their role in this disaster, but only some of them have stuck around to try and sort it out.

 

NUFC's still here, you're supposed to be Newcastle supporters, are you going to support it, or what!?!

Great post.

First bit of perspective ive seen all night.

Well, i honestly dont know know what to make of it. The water is still obviously murky and its hard to say anything definitive positive or negative regarding peoples roles in this situation.

From the outset it does appear that Ashley and Co seem more responisble for what has happened and for that i am truly gutted that something that looked so promising a week ago is completely shattered.

I guess this whole thing was inevitable, the set up was not geared towards usings KK strengths.

Persoanlly, i have a horrible feeling not neccessary for the present and the sacking but more the immediate future. Ive never seen so many vitriolic statements towards the club in all my supporting of the club. I feel that this not only matches the furore of 2004 but also massively overshadows it, the problem lies with the next appointment, assessing it from the outside it seems clear to me that replacing Keegan will be a near impossible task. There will only be 2 options, Shearer or a huge World class manager, if its anyone other than those then i feel our support will suffer irreparable damage, not only from the fans but the players as well. The effects of this lack of support could be devasting, there just seems to be so many splinters to this particular piece of wood, i actually think that this could be an unmitigated disaster.

Marcelino nailed on in my opinion. Spanish, will be extremely familiar and comformatable with the set up. Decent record so far.

As a club, even if a manager comes in 2morra, unless it is a huge name or Shearer (the only type of managers who could appease most of the fans) then we are fucked for this entire season, the fallout from this will be bigger than we've ever seen me thinks.

Im sorry, i really really dont buy into this he plays for newcastle therefore we should back him bollocks. I think its pretty astounding that people would put a football club over morals and ethics. Its not an over reaction but if he played for another club and it was one of our players who kicked out at him you;d all be saying good on the lad.

 

If he gets booed by our fans then he deserves it becasue in the eyes of those fans he's brought more shame to the club.

 

Ive never seen a thread with so little perspective whatsoever. I cant beleive how many people are unplaying the fact he beat the s*** out of 2 people.

 

So much hypocrisy its unreal.

 

I justcant see whatsoever how being booed or slagged off by the media is in anyway comparable to whats he's done - repeatedly.

 

Do you believe in justice though, and the innocent until proven guilty stance that many judicial systems follow? What morals and ethics would you like to discuss?

 

Because he was found guilty and he has served a sentence of punishment under that judicial system. The sentence is finished and he's been released. So is he not forgiven then? Or is he guilty for the rest of his life and f*** justice, let's make sure we have stones in our hands for all time so we can throw them every chance we get. As long as it's someone else, not us.

I came across as being completely anti Barton there and i dont think i am per se, ethically speaking you're right he has served his punishment, and from the moment left prison was a completely innocent man (clean slate etc), i supose i just cant stomach people who attack others for attacking Barton, i think its something to do with the fact that he;s a serial offender, id probably be 100% agreeing with you if this was the first time but sadly it isnt, its the 5th run in he;s had, why should we afford him any undue protection when similiarly thuggsih people would get lambasted and labelled the scurge of life.

Just rank hypocrisy in my eyes.

Im sorry, i really really dont buy into this he plays for newcastle therefore we should back him bollocks. I think its pretty astounding that people would put a football club over morals and ethics. Its not an over reaction but if he played for another club and it was one of our players who kicked out at him you;d all be saying good on the lad.

If he gets booed by our fans then he deserves it becasue in the eyes of those fans he's brought more shame to the club.

Ive never seen a thread with so little perspective whatsoever. I cant beleive how many people are unplaying the fact he beat the s*** out of 2 people.

So much hypocrisy its unreal.

I justcant see whatsoever how being booed or slagged off by the media is in anyway comparable to whats he's done - repeatedly.

Id have Lennon here for a good rpice - but being english and with Spurs raping everyone with the asking prices i cant see this happening. If we could get Lennon on that form that he was for england he'd be immense - maybe he;s just stale at Spurs.

 

At 21 there HAS to be room for improvement when it comes to productivity. It'd be daft to think he;s done as a player.

 

milner?

Milner is 22. 

To be fair, i personally didnt rate milner because his delivvery HAD to be the main asset of his game because for me his lack of pace meant he couldnt often get past a player, meaning he wasnt able to cross from dangerous positions and open up spaces in the box. For him, at 22 it obviously wasnt.

With a player like Lennon, he does play to his strength which is fantastic dribbling ability and raw pace and that gets him into dangerous positions more often than not which is a huge asset for any team in my opinion. His crossing may not be excellent but becasue he's able to get into those dangerous posiitons it does mean that its not as important that it needs to be inch perfect.

Like i say, Lennon is far from done as a player so at a good price it;d be a good signing in my opinion.

Barton deserves everything that happens to him - he's 100% responsible for this and has proven the type of character he is, repeatedly. Im sorry bt i cant really stomach this hypocrisy.

 

Im definitely not condoning Clicy et al's actions, but ill happily admit that im condemning others for even considering defending Barton. A petulant kick should not overshadow what Barton has done to these peoples friend.

 

Ill happily go out on a limb and say that  if someone i worked with had done  to one of my friends what Barton had done to Dabo - id struggle to be 100% proffessional and dignified in a mutual workplace with that person.

 

Surely 99% of the people out there feel the same? If not then maybe you arent all hypocrites.

 

Do you think Dabo is Mother f***ing Teresa? So what, he twatted a bloke, served his punishment, get over it. I've seen worse. Dabo helped to ignite the situation allegedly.

Aye, so did the Everton fan, and the Man City youth team player, Richard Dunne and the kid at Xmas.

To be fair i wouldnt be surprised if some of those mentioned were antagonists but do you think Barton is the ONLY public figure who gets grief?

All im saying is that Barton should be left to take his medicine, not protected, after so many incidents he's proven that he doesnt deserve it.

I know a few mates who have been sent away fro Gbh they served there time and they are better people now, everyone deserves a second chance, I feel sorry for Barton some people need to get off there high horse

Aye i'd agree with that to be honest, im all for second chances, i even advocated giving Barton the captainship before the xmas and dabo incidents, im no Barton basher at all.

My point is though, as that as public figure a role model, and someone who has had many chances before he doesnt deserve (from this time onwards) any protection at all, he deserves to be publically disected as harsh as it seems its the nature of the beast and crime.

High horse, my arse.

I think thats pretty sttagering to be honest but fair enough. As a public figure and a role model i think its fair to be made an example of to be honest - its the nature of the beast.

There doesnt seem to be any perspective on the defending though - itd be one thing if the media were making him out to be as bad as a child rapist or a mackem but they arent so i think thin to an extent it should pass.

Barton deserves everything that happens to him - he's 100% responsible for this and has proven the type of character he is, repeatedly. Im sorry bt i cant really stomach this hypocrisy.

 

Im definitely not condoning Clicy et al's actions, but ill happily admit that im condemning others for even considering defending Barton. A petulant kick should not overshadow what Barton has done to these peoples friend.

 

Ill happily go out on a limb and say that if someone i worked with had done to one of my friends what Barton had done to Dabo - id struggle to be 100% proffessional and dignified in a mutual workplace with that person.

 

Surely 99% of the people out there feel the same? If not then maybe you arent all hypocrites.

 

So he's fair game for anything now you think?

 

Yeh thats exactly what i said, in fact i'll put it in bold so that everyone can see exactly where ive said it.

Im more having a pop at the people who are going out there way to condemn others. When Barton is 100% responisible for this. Ive stayed pretty neutral up to this point but to see people almost defending Barton and attacking to media after whats he;s done is someothing i persoanlly cant stomach.

The mans a public figure and should take full responsibilty for the aftermath of his actions. Again, id like to point out that im not anti Barton, im anti bullshit and so far i can smell too much of it. In an ideal world id say that Barton should reap what he;s sowed and use it to his advantage and prove something to the people and fans.

If this were an ordinary memeber of the public or if your fiend were a victim of this sort of crime, would you be defending the perp against the media??

Barton deserves everything that happens to him - he's 100% responsible for this and has proven the type of character he is, repeatedly. Im sorry bt i cant really stomach this hypocrisy.

Im definitely not condoning Clicy et al's actions, but ill happily admit that im condemning others for even considering defending Barton. A petulant kick should not overshadow what Barton has done to these peoples friend.

Ill happily go out on a limb and say that  if someone i worked with had done  to one of my friends what Barton had done to Dabo - id struggle to be 100% proffessional and dignified in a mutual workplace with that person.

Surely 99% of the people out there feel the same? If not then maybe you arent all hypocrites.

Id have Lennon here for a good rpice - but being english and with Spurs raping everyone with the asking prices i cant see this happening. If we could get Lennon on that form that he was for england he'd be immense - maybe he;s just stale at Spurs.

At 21 there HAS to be room for improvement when it comes to productivity. It'd be daft to think he;s done as a player.

Well Keegan himself has already said that he only wants players who will play for the shirt and understand what it means to play for nufc - do you think a player who was needed to be convinced by an extra 10-20k per week to come here would fit into that select category of a player wanting to play for nufc?

 

Oh please. Find me a manager who doesn't say that.

 

The first player we signed cancelled his contract with his previous club so he could get a premier league salary FFS. Are you deluded enough to think he joined specifically because he wanted to play for US, and that he wouldn't have gone somewhere else if they'd offered him a better deal?

 

Thats not quite what im getting at, but i do see your point.

 

Who are you to say that that isnt the case? Alledgedly there was a top 4 club involved as well....im certainly not saying it IS the case but who knows for sure.??

 

All im saying is that if Keegan has to actively offer the player too much as opposed to a marked improvement on his previous contract then wouldnt it contradict his criteria, theres a definite difference there in my eyes.

 

Owen and Luque would fit into the first criteria (of being offered too much to come here),  Jonas, Colocinni and Guthrie fit into the second criterai (Of having an marked improvemnt on there previous contract). I see the difference there, do you? and do you think its the right way to go, or do you beleive that if a player doesnt want to come here we should offer him monetary compensation in order to get him commited to the team?

 

In an ideal world id rather have player happy to be here - seems to be the crux of what Keegan wants as well.

 

 

Tell me what Jonas and Colocinni are on and we might be able to debate what "too much" is. I don't see how your argument even gets off the ground without knowing that. Quotes like this:

 

“At the end of a player’s career, the only thing that counts is their checking account, they don’t feed themselves with cups neither with medals, and I fear he could miss the contract of his life.

 

“The pay rise is very important for Fabricio,” he added. “Here (in Spain) you have a better life, but a player’s career is very short"

 

don't exactly scream to me that Colocinni's motive for joining were football based.

 

FWIW for the vast majority of players I don't think what they're paid makes the slightest difference as to their "commitment" or how they perform on the pitch, it only affects which club they play for each season.

i understand what your getting at and i suppose you're right to an extent, im not articulating myself well and i suppose without the cold hard figures i cant really make too much of my point. But i do stand by my belief that there is a difference between a player coming for an imprioved contract and a player coming because of a deal they couldnt refuse.

I just dont beleive that Colo or Jonas head was turned only because of the money and that it was achoice to play in the league as well as the club -  maybe im being idealist.

Having said all that - you're kinda stepping on your own mantra if your intimating that we overpaid for Jonas and Collocinni and that we are in fact backing keegan by overpaying for "quality players"- dont let that mighty contradiction worry you too much though. we do seem to be backing our manager and the board do seem to be looking to aquire quality players, very amibitious of them, i suppose you cant fault them for that.

Well Keegan himself has already said that he only wants players who will play for the shirt and understand what it means to play for nufc - do you think a player who was needed to be convinced by an extra 10-20k per week to come here would fit into that select category of a player wanting to play for nufc?

 

Oh please. Find me a manager who doesn't say that.

 

The first player we signed cancelled his contract with his previous club so he could get a premier league salary FFS. Are you deluded enough to think he joined specifically because he wanted to play for US, and that he wouldn't have gone somewhere else if they'd offered him a better deal?

Thats not quite what im getting at, but i do see your point.

Who are you to say that that isnt the case? Alledgedly there was a top 4 club involved as well....im certainly not saying it IS the case but who knows for sure.??

All im saying is that if Keegan has to actively offer the player too much as opposed to a marked improvement on his previous contract then wouldnt it contradict his criteria, theres a definite difference there in my eyes.

Owen and Luque would fit into the first criteria (of being offered too much to come here), Jonas, Colocinni and Guthrie fit into the second criterai (Of having an marked improvemnt on there previous contract). I see the difference there, do you? and do you think its the right way to go, or do you beleive that if a player doesnt want to come here we should offer him monetary compensation in order to get him commited to the team?

In an ideal world id rather have player happy to be here - seems to be the crux of what Keegan wants as well.

To be fair, i wont reply i was just interested to know if he'd contradic the views of the manager? Seems the way he's angling.

hey, i'll tell what just occurred to me this morning:

 

with the various movements in & out so far this summer and the intimation from a number of places about a "WoW" signing how ironic it would be if the club went and 'pulled a shepherd' by bringing in a big name rather than fill squad positions we've needed all summer to pacify the fans!!

 

the collective mushroom cloud would take out the city! 

 

{dons tin hat}

 

 

haha, some people never learn. I'm sure premiership quality footballlers will be playing in the sunday leagues tomorrow. We might find a quality centre forward playing for the Blue Star for a couple of quid. Go get 'em lads they're out there somewhere.

 

I didn't realise that Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourhino had been getting it wrong by buying quality footballers all these years. Slap their wrists.

 

Quite ironic that the 2 strikers most valuable to the club at the present time were "panic signings/trophy signings" bought by the previous regime, but I'll let you absorb that one.

 

 

Just out of interest, your view is that the board arent backing keegan finacially and that if we need to get quality players then we need to over pay in order to get them in. Well Keegan himself has already said that he only wants players who will play for the shirt and understand what it means to play for nufc - do you think a player who was needed to be convinced by an extra 10-20k per week to come here would fit into that select category of a player wanting to play for nufc?

"Any quality cant play at Newcastle, we've seen that in the past"

Id agree with that.

Is it me or is this thing getting blown completely out of proportion?

£12m minus one player

or

James Milner

I know which one i'd like.

I know we are pretty short on the RW but if Keegan didnt belive he had any options there it wouldnt on gone through - plus people seem to be underplaying the fact that monday night is probably the best time to do business - every year every fan asks why the club couldnt do  the signings that they make at deadline earlier in the window and its never a coicindent that the same thing happens year on year.

Its just the nature of the beast.

West ham ended up with Tevez and Mashcerano on deadline, we ended up with 4? players when Roeder was in charge on deadline day.....things will happen, you can guarantuee that. The idea that come deadline day, if we re already in negotiations with a club it means they are ready to sell and if they are ready to do that, then unless we fuck up badly or you get some freak incidenct then generally speaking the player is as good as ours. the dealine acts to force that through.

Sit tight  - persoanlly im extremely confident (not ITK).

With a front 3 man of sav, martin and owen it'd be akin to a midfield of lennon, bentley, modric and dos santos - pure s***.

 

Do you really believe that?

I'll remeber to put the wink in next time.

But to be fair, my point is that the quality is there and individually they have excellent quality but they're "easily" combated becasue the lack of variation.

EDIT :

i think people are underestimating the importance of a big man. Surely people can see the necessity of having a player who can hold up the ball and give the midfield a chance to join in the attack. We cant play 100% of the game on the floor and there has to be someone who is able to hold up the ball against big strong defenders.

 

To think we witnessed so many years of one of the best ever players who could hold up a ball and watch all the oppurtunities and times his input was vital and still think that a big man isnt necessary.

 

We never needed such a player when we had Beardsley and Cole.

Cole and Bearsdley were completely different type of players who posed 2 different threats to defenders, Saviola, Martins and Owen are pretty similar in how they pose threats to the opposite defence, ie with pace, movement. A defender and opposite manager could safely go into a game setting up tactic in accordance to our front 3 - i,e 3 men in midfield , no height up front, close down as much as possible - force into a long ball game.

If you have that for 38 games a seaon, you;ll get sussed very very quickly.

With B and C we also had 2 attacking wingers to add to contention....

i think people are underestimating the importance of a big man. Surely people can see the necessity of having a player who can hold up the ball and give the midfield a chance to join in the attack. We cant play 100% of the game on the floor and there has to be someone who is able to hold up the ball against big strong defenders.

To think we witnessed so many years of one of the best ever players who could hold up a ball and watch all the oppurtunities and times his input was vital and still think that a big man isnt necessary.

With a front 3 man of sav, martin and owen it'd be akin to a midfield of lennon, bentley, modric and dos santos - pure shit.

Reckon spurs could become the new newcastle, i know its way way early and i know theres 9 days still left in the market but if they dont get any bite in there squad then i genuinely think they'll be screwed, the crapper sides will be ultra gritty and physcial and that wont suit and the bigger team will be a match for them anyway.

Could easily turn into the new newcastle- plenty of talent on the field but turmoil off it.

Who see's Jonas as a LW? Hes clearly right footed.

 

The guy who played the right footed Ginola LW for Newcastle.

 

Ginola doesn't really count, he was genuinely 2-footed. I've seen him take corner kicks with both feet before, not many players are good enough with their weaker foot to do that.

 

Pires, Overmars & Nasri then.

That portuguese lad at man utd's pretty good on the left as well, in fact both of them are, Babels not bad on the left either....

Who see's Jonas as a LW? Hes clearly right footed.

and....?

Perhaps people see Jonas as a right winger?

Fair enough, but if thats the case then surely with the strength and depth we already have on the left, youd think that if thats the plan he'd start there in the first place...

We need a right winger more than a left one.

Yeh exactly, i thought it was a priority position to be honest,

LW - Zog, Jonas, Duff, Milner,

RW - Milner, Geremi.

The gulf in quality is actually pretty eye opening, wonder why it doesnt seem to be being addressed.