fredbob

Would of been interesting to know the amount of cash he'd of handed over to Allardyce had he not have to pay off all that debt. Seems a bit strange though that he paid off that extra £30m rather than plunge it into the transfer kitty having paid the compulsory £60m, Were our finances really that bad??

 

 

Think you answered your own question.

 

Why would Shepherd want to stay with a sinking ship and even acquire the club outright if things were so bad?? Ive heard pretty convincing arguments on this board about the debt at the club being 'manageable' , if so why did Ashley feel the need to plunge that extra £30m?? And make Allardyce operate on a effectively a buy to sell  policy.

 

 

 

It seems if people say we had a buy to sell policy enough then some people will obviously believe it.

 

It was nothing of the sort though.

What makes you so sure?

All im saying is that effectively, the way we did business this sumer was akin to a buy to sell policy. Im not saying it was the case, and thats what definitely happened, but with the OP article statting that Ashley wanted to spend more this past summer but couldnt because of the debt, thenwhy did he fell the need to plunge that £30m into the debt which wasnt compulsory rather than give it to Allardyce outright.

Like i say, im not categorically saying it WAS a buy to sell policy, im not using it as a stick to shake at Ashley etc but the transfers kind of worked that way.

Significantly

Parker - Barton

Dyer - Smith

Not So..

Then you have the rest Geremi,Enrique Roz, Faye, Beye and Cacapa. Aside from Enrique the others arent exaclty prolific signings and even half of that £30m could of been put to better use.

Or he didnt understand the financial structure of a football business and thought it was imperative to clear the debt of the club rahter than put the funding on the field where it in needed the most.

 

Do you know what a change of ownership clause is, by the way?

Yes thanks. But the extra £30m was nothing to do with that clause according to the clubs accounts.

Would of been interesting to know the amount of cash he'd of handed over to Allardyce had he not have to pay off all that debt. Seems a bit strange though that he paid off that extra £30m rather than plunge it into the transfer kitty having paid the compulsory £60m, Were our finances really that bad??

 

 

Think you answered your own question.

 

Why would Shepherd want to stay with a sinking ship and even acquire the club outright if things were so bad?? Ive heard pretty convincing arguments on this board about the debt at the club being 'manageable' , if so why did Ashley feel the need to plunge that extra £30m?? And make Allardyce operate on a effectively a buy to sell policy.

 

 

 

Ashley must be a bad businessman

 

Or he didnt understand the financial structure of a football business and thought it was imperative to clear the debt of the club rahter than put the funding on the field where it in needed the most.

 

More nonsense

Great retort, really slammed the point down there.

There is hardly a club in england that operates without debt. Yet there are many wealthy owners who would be able to pay off the debts like Ashley has and make the club more profitable but they dont. What im trying to say is if the £60m was compulsory, then why did he think that ensuring we were debt free in his first season was more imporant than putting that extra £30m onto the field, where argunably it was more important. Its just that, relatively speaking, £30m doesnt seem like a lot of debt to me for a club our size, whereas £30m is a hell of a lot of money regrading transfers.

And in my mind letting Allradyce build the squad he wanted was more important than clearing that £30m.

Its just a small point, im not going all NE5 on you.

Would of been interesting to know the amount of cash he'd of handed over to Allardyce had he not have to pay off all that debt. Seems a bit strange though that he paid off that extra £30m rather than plunge it into the transfer kitty having paid the compulsory £60m, Were our finances really that bad??

 

 

Think you answered your own question.

 

Why would Shepherd want to stay with a sinking ship and even acquire the club outright if things were so bad?? Ive heard pretty convincing arguments on this board about the debt at the club being 'manageable' , if so why did Ashley feel the need to plunge that extra £30m?? And make Allardyce operate on a effectively a buy to sell  policy.

 

 

 

It seems if people say we had a buy to sell policy enough then some people will obviously believe it.

Would of been interesting to know the amount of cash he'd of handed over to Allardyce had he not have to pay off all that debt. Seems a bit strange though that he paid off that extra £30m rather than plunge it into the transfer kitty having paid the compulsory £60m, Were our finances really that bad??

 

 

Think you answered your own question.

 

Why would Shepherd want to stay with a sinking ship and even acquire the club outright if things were so bad?? Ive heard pretty convincing arguments on this board about the debt at the club being 'manageable' , if so why did Ashley feel the need to plunge that extra £30m?? And make Allardyce operate on a effectively a buy to sell policy.

 

 

 

Ashley must be a bad businessman

Or he didnt understand the financial structure of a football business and thought it was imperative to clear the debt of the club rahter than put the funding on the field where it in needed the most.

Hard to say to be honest. Have to say no though, hes a very tidy player and very intelligent but i think he;d get found out by a top midfilder such as the likes of Masch or Carrick who defend aggressvivley in the whole.

I think Martins would be a good candidate but again im not sure he would be very intelligent with the possession, well not as intelligent as Owen. That position is made for Emre, if you ask me, the only thing he wouldnt offer is a danger in the box. Think he'd be excellent with Owen and Matins running off him.

Would of been interesting to know the amount of cash he'd of handed over to Allardyce had he not have to pay off all that debt. Seems a bit strange though that he paid off that extra £30m rather than plunge it into the transfer kitty having paid the compulsory £60m, Were our finances really that bad??

 

 

Think you answered your own question.

Why would Shepherd want to stay with a sinking ship and even acquire the club outright if things were so bad?? Ive heard pretty convincing arguments on this board about the debt at the club being 'manageable' , if so why did Ashley feel the need to plunge that extra £30m?? And make Allardyce operate on a effectively a buy to sell policy.

Would of been interesting to know the amount of cash he'd of handed over to Allardyce had he not have to pay off all that debt. Seems a bit strange though that he paid off that extra £30m rather than plunge it into the transfer kitty having paid the compulsory £60m, Were our finances really that bad??

Still think enrique needs to improve massively going forward, additionally they were up against a very poor team, but fair do's, clean sheet, long may it continue

Agree with that, ive noticed that he's not very agile, also, i know he's well built but he seems a bit sluggish maybe not the fittest at the moment. Is that just me who's thought this?

Defensively i think he's very good though.

Missed the game today. How did we play? Did we have enough in the tank to see of most teams in the league or was it a performance that sunk a very poor side?

Would of been interested to see Roz here to be honest, i really liked him as a player. Back four of Beye-Roz-Faye-Enrique have the right blend to be a success. I always rated Roz and am sure theres a consistent assured performer in there somwhere.

f*** me Man U fans though! every one of them are c***s. lol

Tell me about it, the number of Man U fans i know whose "uncle/aunty is from Manchester" is unreal, there has to be some incest in there somewhere. I have a housemate who is a "big" Man U fan and she's fucking clueless about the club. Really winds me up on match days when she celbrates them scoring or other rivals losing.

I'd pull her up about it and bust her balls about it but shes a psychotic bitch and would probably stab me at night while i was touching myself.

Ronaldinho is a no go for me as well.

 

People (would) think were crazy to turn him down? They said that when we were humming and harring about Paddy K, look how he turned out.

 

SBR wanted to spend £24m on Rivaldo, when Rivaldo was on a downer, only a year later he was finished at Barca and they couldn't get rid of him quick enough.

 

Ronaldinho is there right now, in the blackhole where his talent is being sucked away by himself. He's got all the money he'll ever need so we cannot throw anything at him that he doesn't already have, and if he can't be arsed to stay, fit, turn up to training, play properly for one of the greatest clubs there has ever been, then fuk do i want him here.

 

 

When did SBR ever want to spend £24 million on Rivaldo? Yes we were linked with him, but I don't ever remember him saying for £24 million I want him. Or words as such.

 

I do.

 

FS was apparently willing as well, but Rivaldo didn't want to join.

 

 

I remember us being in for him but £24m was way off, surely?

I don't think anyone will ever match Ferguson; he's a complete one-off.

 

You name probably our best three players there, yet I could name Torres, Vidic and Ronaldo who are easily as good/better. The standard of foreigner is far higher IMO, that's most of the reason there are so many here. And also the reason why the home nations teams are crap. The players just aren't that good.

 

the finance generated in the premiership now means that the very best players will come here as well as to the top Italian teams and Real and Barcelona.

 

It used to be Italy where this happened albeit a long time ago, and the 2 Spanish teams.

 

The players you list ie Torres, Vidic and Ronaldo are 3 great players, but so are Tevez, Drogba and Fabregas for instance.

 

Of these 6 players, 2 are Spanish, 1 African, 1 Portuguese, I Argie and Vidic is ? [Czech - not sure of this it just escapes me].

 

Rooney is just as vital to manu as Ronaldo, as is Terry re Drogba and Gerrard re Torres to their clubs

 

Its just a global game.

 

I know England haven't qualified, and therefore played s****, but I think they could and should have done better.

 

Foreigners v British players is a big debate, much bigger than this.

 

 

 

He's a serb mate.

 

I agree the English pool of players isn't half as bad as it's been made out. I believe you could pick about 3 first 11's that could have qualified for the euro's, s*** managment is to blame (McClaren).

 

However, i think the youth in this country is a huge problem. We have adequate youngsters compared to the likes of France and Brazil. I believe this again down to poor coaching and management at lowel levels.

 

For me there's too much emphasis on physical (which is understand) rather that technical and mental.

 

there's no escape from the physical aspect of competing in the premiership.

 

It's all down to extremes of weather, temparature, amount of tough games, pace of the game ie the natural habitat and environment of Britain. The best team really does win the premiership, they are the best team because they have the players who adapt to all these extremes over 8-9 months of the year.

 

Abroad its a slower paced game for obvious reasons.

 

Kids will only improve technique by playing on 5 a side pitches from as young an age as possible and staying that way until their teens at least.

 

Getting a 10 year old kid to hoof the ball down a full sized pitch is absolute bollocks f**k knows why this still goes on.

 

 

I think theres a culutural difference as well whichi hinders the youths develeopement. Its pretty widely accepted that the english youth are generally regarded as being quite lazy and not as motivated to suceed as there forigen counterparts.

Keegans best signing for nufc has to be Shearer but Keegans best signing for nufc under Keegan gotta be Lee. Was a proper driving force for our team.

The idea that KK is not a tactician is laughable - he's managed three premier league clubs and the national team for f***'s sake. He doesn't have the same image as maybe a Wenger or Benitez, but he knows a hell of a lot about the game.

Just to play devils advocate and kind of contradict myself in one post, how does what you've put have any relevance to Keegans tactical nous. Surely the only true measuree of Keegans tactical nous is decision which have benefitted us in games and so far there have been a few decisions he's made which havent exactly dispelled thoughts of tactical naiveity albeit in difficult circumstances.

I mean, by your definition, who isnt a tactitian? Mclaren is even Graham Taylor is...

Ronaldinho is a no go for me as well.

 

People (would) think were crazy to turn him down? They said that when we were humming and harring about Paddy K, look how he turned out.

 

SBR wanted to spend £24m on Rivaldo, when Rivaldo was on a downer, only a year later he was finished at Barca and they couldn't get rid of him quick enough.

 

Ronaldinho is there right now, in the blackhole where his talent is being sucked away by himself. He's got all the money he'll ever need so we cannot throw anything at him that he doesn't already have, and if he can't be arsed to stay, fit, turn up to training, play properly for one of the greatest clubs there has ever been, then fuk do i want him here.

 

Pretty much agree with all of that. On paper it would be a fantastic signing but laterally speaking, i dont think its the route we should be going because he's on a downer career and mentality wise. I think we should be looking at players (no matter how big) who have a definite hunger and a will to prove themselves. I think that thats imperative to our future that we get players with hunger and desire.

Having said all that, i still wouldnt think twice about taking a punt on Adriano, would hate to see him at West Ham.

Wow, what prententious reviews.

What a crap article.

The idea that KK is not a tactician is laughable - he's managed three premier league clubs and the national team for f***'s sake. He doesn't have the same image as maybe a Wenger or Benitez, but he knows a hell of a lot about the game.

Aye spot on. It's just another cliche that gets trotted out, a bit like our having a supposedly poor defence the last time he was here.

To be honest, i used to think that tactics were a vital aspect of the game, but having thought about it, i think there arent actually that many aspects to tactics. I think the important of tactics are way exaggerrated.

I mean, tactics that i think of are the tempo and style that you play, expoiting weaknesses and nullifying strenght of the opposition and tactical subsututions, as well as maybe mind games.

Aside from these things i dont see where any "acumen" can be exercised, it doesnt seem like such a substantial aspect of the game, well, not to the degreses of importance that a lot of people put to it.

Am i missing something?

you're getting there fredbob. I didn't understand or accept your opinion in December when you were adamant that the club didn't need to waste money in the January transfer window, then for some reason completely changed your mind when the club changed managers.

Ive always maintained that if the essential players were available we should go for it, but thought it was a bad idea to spend heavily in the Jan period for obvious reason regarding the period itself and Allardyces record, in hindsight i was correct. Having said that, i always think its important that new managers get there own squads in so i was quick to advocate Keegan spending money in the window because he needed to get men in that he wanted. I can see the difference between the 2 situations, if you cant then thats your problem. The sad thing is ive said this all before, and as yet you still dont understand.

I think you have me down as someone who is anti shepherd and anti old board, and you couldnt be more wrong, although you do have some decent attempts. I, again have already acknowledged Shepherd et al invaluable input to the club, something which other people who have negative things to say about Shepherd fail to do.

I suspect that if we sign Thierry Henry then you would do an equally dramatic u-turn but that is just opinion. Hopefully we will, by the way, and so far as I am concerned whether the chairman/ owner is Ashley, Mort, Shepherd or even the bloke who plays his mouth organ outside Fenwicks I don't give a toss, its a quality player and I would trust the people at the club to have evaluated that, and congratulate them on showing ambition for the club.

Well then you'd be wrong again, which i thought  would of been impossible to do seeing as though i have said 2 or 3 times that "i would have him here in a flash"

"if we signed him you wouldnt see me complaining" etc etc. You see, its yet another blantent example of you a) making things up, and b) seeing what you want to see and c) misinerpreting things to suit your argument.

As for the second point of your statement, its down to personal opinions, and im by no means turning my nose up at Thierry Henry, but when you weigh up the whole possilibty, i dont think it would be the best option out there. I dont know about you, but i see a player who cast a considerable shadow over his last club, is the wrong side of 30, has a huge reputation which would comand huge wages and signing on fees as well as a considerably hefty transfer fee add to the fact that you can guaratuee his heart wouldnt be in it, now in your eyes for some reason, none of that matters whatsoever, but in my eyes, i see £10m transfer, £5m p/y wages and x amount of bonus payments, which equates to approx £25-£30m pound on one player who prossilby has only 3 years at the top.

Now if you ask me, and yourself would you like to see £30m spent on Henry or that £30m spent on someone who is younger has big potential ie Hunteleer or Benzema (I know both are out of our leagues but it is an example) who would be equally as threatening in front of goal.

To me, the maths does itself.  Like i say if you disagree then thats upto you, im desperate for this not to turn into another old vs new board debate because im quite frankly not interested but if you have anything constructive to say about the merits of the transfer then feel free to comment.

The whole phrase "FS signing" says everything I'm afraid, there was absolutely no reason to say it at all, unless you have a strange agenda that maybe you could explain. That is the point of my post. I fail to see why you think signing such players is bad for the club and "not the sort of signing we should be making" when the clubs current transfer policy has us knocking on the relegation trapdoor.

The whole Shepherd comment was pretty much in regard to everything ive already said above, like ive said, not iterested in a new vs old board debate, again, ive already explained in pretty great detail about Shepherd et al downward spiral after the sacking of SBR and the financial implications of that decision dig it up if you're that bothered about the comment but ill stick to my guns and stick with the opinion thank you very much.

Bytheway, just to reiterate im not interested in an old vs new board debate, if you have anything interesting to say about my thoughts on the trasfer then feel free, but i feel ive explained myself well enough, like i said, he's not the signing i would be gunning for, but i wouldnt complain one iota if he came. This comment alone undermines your entire argument so i really see no point to reply.

At the moment i'm feeling cautiously optimistic. When the news broke hand on heart i was a bit gutted, i thought it was a step back and that Keegan wasnt the best man for the job. I was both worried that he'd lost it as a manager having admitted he was out of love with the game and worried that he'd ruin his magnificent legacy at the club.

At the moment I'm feeling a little uneasy with the situation we find ourselves in at the moment, but im hoping we stay up for the reason that i feel i trust no one more than Keegan with money.

I always thought that this appointment was a little too nostalgic for my liking but understood the appointment as it was one that 95% of the fans could get behind, aside from some truly world class managers this club was never gonna get a manager which everyone could truly get behind so even though i was alittle gutted i wasnt too surprised.

Having heard all the candidates who were apprently linked with the job the standout candidate was Deschamps. He would of been an incredibly ambitious appointment with a long future in front of him if he were a success. He's already had some decent credentials as a manager and definitely got the credentials and experience as a player, he also had the style of play that we as nufc fans liked so it seemed the standout candidate for me.

In Keegan We Trust.

Fair point, bit of a FS type signing to be honest, theres no chance that he'd come to england again in my opinion. Im surpised he's struggled to adapt to the Spanish game so much.

 

aye, Geremi's much better like

 

mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif

lets at least compare a forward with a forward........lets say albert luque or patrick kluivert or andreas andersson.

 

Ok then Mark Viduka, "good business"

i'll see your mark viduka and raise you a paul kitson

 

Wasn't Viduka signed when Shepherd was still in charge?

 

not sure, but irrelevant.

 

The point is that a world class footballer is being dismissed as a "FS type signing"

 

Scraping the depths, I couldn't think of a funnier comment if I tried.

 

As Keegan says he'd like him, does this mean he wouldn't be an Ashley trophy signing

 

Fantastic.

 

'Nuff said. I won't labour the point.

 

 

and you'll make out that all fat freds signings were world class....they werent. at the time we were in the s*** and robson came in what did we get...?  kevin gallagher.

 

no doubt NE5 was screaming at the board for being s**** then aswell

 

thats not the point at all, which you know very well.

 

Thierry Henry = Shepherd trophy signing or Ashley/Keegan quality signing. Seeing as it seems it has to be spelled out for you.

 

Utterly priceless.

 

Thank you and Goodnight.

 

 

where do i mention trophy signings or even give my opinion of wether i think he'd be a good signing or not ?

 

not priceless...actually quite pitiful

 

I intended to make the point then leave this, but you keep avoiding the point either deliberately or because you can't see the blatantly obvious.

 

It was for fredbob anyway, as he clearly insinuated that Thierry Henry is a "typical FS trophy signing" [words to that effect], I've stated my point quite clearly, either address it as it is or decline but don't bother clipping the post and referring to something else.

 

 

Wow, that got out of hand pretty quickly,seems strange that you'd retort with a comment as faecicious as that,  especially as i said in my previous post "i have him here in a flash".

Didnt say it would be a bad signing at all, but again not the type of signing we should be making, as his heart wouldnt be in it and he'd be on silly wages, have a big transfer fee and signing on fee and on the way down career wise.

Just said that it was a FS type signing because despite all this he'd still be signed which in my opinion is th wrong thing to do, though having said that you wouldnt see me complaining for obvious reasons.

If you dont understand or accept my opinion then ignore it.  

Emile Heskey, knows Owen & we need someone with presence & who will work hard. May not excite everyone or score many goals but he'd be an improvement & you'd expect he'd relish the opportunity to try again with a bigger club and break back into the England squad.

 

Think about it before you all laugh at Heskey.

Can see what you mean to be fair. We've struggled to have a focal point since Shearer retired and to be fair even though his goalscoring prowess is close to non existent his team play and work rate are excellent, is a proven foil for Owen and could be the same with Martins.

Unfortunately though, for where we need to be going, relying on only one of our strikers goalscoring prowess isnt good enough no matter how hard the other striker works. So probably wont be a good option.

He'd easily turn into Lolinha if we signed him.

 

We may have killed the former Italian U21 captains career & sooperstar in waiting Viana but we launched Bellamy (PFA Young Of The Year 2002)  & Jenas (PFA Young Of The Year 2003) .

 

Who was that then out of interest?

 

Pistone

Ahhh yes! Didnt realise he was U21 captain.

If we could merge Riises attacking ability with Enriques age and defensive ability we'd have hell of a player. Rathernot go down the route of going for other teams rejects though, so no thanks.