TheBrownBottle

The back line are clearly missing him as sweeper-keeper. It’s chaotic without him in there

It is basic. And he didn’t do it when he had the full squad available to him. He also had a WC break coming up mid-season. Howe shouldn’t be under pressure for his job at the moment, but that doesn’t mean he’s beyond criticism.

They can’t train because they were already paggered. Other clubs have similar fixture lists and their managers aren’t in the press complaining that they can’t train - and someone like Ten Hag would absolutely have used that excuse. This will happen again and again and again under Howe unless he learns from it. I’m more than happy for him to be given the time to learn, but he absolutely is not the victim of bad luck re injuries and fatigue.

This is why Howe needs time - and to show that he’s learned from this. If I was running the club, barring complete meltdown he’d have until next Xmas. But this can’t keep happening - we need to adapt.

Then as you’ve explained it’s less of an excuse and more something Howe needs to look at. Howe drilling his players non stop and having a playing style which is so demanding that the players are burned out before the season is halfway finished. Howe is not blameless and it isn’t bad luck that the players are running on embers.

Not as good as Speed and Tiote? Dear me. Technique-wise, Cabaye is more debatable. He’s clearly a better footballer than Lee, but Lee was superb for us for a lot of his time here.

It definitely is flattering - Forest looked by far the more dangerous side

Nowt. But we don’t hear a peep from them. We know Staveley has to run all major decisions via PIF and - crucially - the management contract that she has for the club is entirely based on performance (PIF’s perception of performance). So we’re in the weird position of the minority shareholder running the club on a management contract, and also being the mouthpiece. It isn’t in Staveley’s interest to be overly critical of anything that is happening. But we absolutely do not know anything about PIF’s views.

I hadn’t looked at the table for some time, but did so today. If Everton win their game in hand, then their league results for the first half of the season are the same as ours. Of course, Everton didn’t have six European fixtures vs top sides, but still - that’s not good.

Tbf I’m only going on what Staveley said. Could be that she’s making her client’s judgement sound better

Howe was PIF’s choice. Emery was Staveley’s.

Trippier being dropped is absolutely within his control tbf. And what you’ve described happened a few times in the first half.

It’s 4-5-1 when you’re sitting that deep and being that passive. Almiron and Gordon have not been playing as wide forwards

We’ve effectively been playing 4-5-1 in most of our away games

Though the weird thing is that we might view Howe’s reign as successful to date and we’re calling for patience, because we know what we’ve been in the recent past. It may be that the ownership don’t view it as successful on their own terms, and their expectation is for what they consider success, not us.

Not for me - it’s still results-dependent. If we finish mid table this year and we’re in a similar position around Xmas then I don’t see him being around.

Yep - it was a collective failure. Forwards too knackered to press and some poor decision-making making us vulnerable to counters; a midfield which was crowding towards the ball; and a back line which looked like the offside rule had only been explained via hand signals before kick off and which also seemed to drift towards the ball. All compounded by a goalkeeper who goes to ground far, far too easily.

Shape was the biggest issue today for me. Kept banging on about it in the match thread. It’s got progressively worse in recent weeks.

Agreed, and I think Howe has done an excellent job generally - though as much as I think that he needs to be backed during a difficult spell, I also don’t think what has been performed are miracles or wonders. With signing on fees I’d be willing to bet that the club has sunk half a billion quid on transfers

Christ yes. A pretty poor transfer window in 2000 - and we spent a fair chunk of change - before a season that could only be described as inert.

I agree, but was just caveating that this isn’t one of those sudden surges by a club which returns to the mean after a season. Serious money has been spent

You keep on slagging off our support as being ‘impatient’ - sorry, what’s the barometer to this?

I agree to an extent - though most of those clubs won’t have spent c.£400m on transfers in 18 months.

I really believe we’re about to learn more about PIF than we are about Howe. If we lose those next three league games - and January doesn’t see an uptick in form - and Howe is still around in February, then we know that they are taking a truly long-term view and we have a non-reactive owner. I still think it would be crackers to push Howe out of the door. I want to see what we look like next season under him.

I think most of us agree tbh - but the great unknown is the owners (not Staveley and Reuben). No idea what their thoughts are