Alan Kennedy

[Mick]

Jimmy Greaves would have been the best of them all if he'd settled in Italy, he scored almost a goal a game.

[Guest alex]

Actually, if we're talking about all-time, it's John Charles imo.

[Mick]

Actually, if we're talking about all-time, it's John Charles imo.

 

I wouldn't disagree with that, I was trying to think of his name but couldn't.

[merlin]

Very true 2J. One of the reasons Ian Rush was so good was because he worked so hard for the team.

 

That team could have so easily dominated Europe with some of the players they had, shame about the fans letting them down, although that's a debate I don't want to bring up in this discussion.

 

I mean Rush and Aldridge, both prolific and would be worth how much now?

 

We all know the genius of Pedro.

 

Barnes on his club form was one of the best players on the planet before that injury robbed him of his pace.

 

Hansen we all know was fantastic, Stevie Nicol, criminally underrated by fans now etc.

 

Before any makes a remark I'm not a Liverpool fan, just a fan of good football. 

 

A few things spring to mind here.

 

One is that Dalglish improved an already top quality side into one which had more flair and became even better. Just what was needed when he came to Newcastle. Which makes it even more difficult to understand why he did what he did.

 

Two is that John Barnes in a way mirrors what Irving Nattrass maybe could have been. Barnes was a talented player playing within himself at Watford, but moving to a club with real winners in it rubbed off on him and he stepped up a gear.

 

 

Totally. Dalglish was a phenomenal player, some of the play between him and Rushy had to be seen to be believed.

 

I remember one pass he played, was close to genius. He was on the right wing, ball comes out of defence into opposition half. He had his back to goal but flicks the ball first time with the outside of his right boot so the ball curls into the inside right channel inch-perfect for Rush to run onto in between two defenders and slot it from outisde the box.

 

Jan Molby's passing was great but his scouse-danish accent was better 

 

EDIT - was Dalglish better than Keegan? (who he replaced)

 

I meant as a manager mate, but yes you are right he probably improved them as a player too. In fact, if my memory is correct, the 3 players who played for Liverpool in 1978 that didn't play in 1977 were Dalglish, Hansen and Souness.

 

Keegan, Dalglish and Beardsley were all great players on merit though.

 

Food for thought though, is who has been the most successful British player who played overseas ?

 

 

 

The best export for me is Keegan out of those mentioned.

 

Agreed - was hero-worshipped at Hamburg.

 

On the subject of being able to watch the great individuals we had in the 70's - Green, for me, was the best ; although he only played for 38 games(career ended by Mel Blyth at Crystal Palace, cruciate ligament)

this boy was something else ; Beardsley perhaps had a bit more trickery at his peak, but Green would have left him standing over 5 yards - he was electric, and his right foot was like a wand. Had a powerful shot too. Would have been worth 30m today. Gazza could have been the greatest English player of all time had he possessed Pele's temperament, but, as NE5 says, we have a much better CLUB now and the stadium is light-years away from what we had to stand in, even though standing was great. I once remember being in a toilet like a pig-sty, and someone remarking that the bog was 'HIV positive !!' - it was running with urine on the floor...!!

Still, the atmosphere was superb - remember the noise when we beat Spurs 3-1 in the LC Semi in 1976 -

absolutely brilliant.

 

All this reminds me - we are getting old...!!!

[Tooj]

Actually, if we're talking about all-time, it's John Charles imo.

 

Great shout that mate, everyone believed as well that Wales team would have beaten Brazil in '58 if he was playing.

 

Tragic as well what happened to him after he retired.

[Mick]

 

Agreed - was hero-worshipped at Hamburg.

 

On the subject of being able to watch the great individuals we had in the 70's - Green, for me, was the best ; although he only played for 38 games(career ended by Mel Blyth at Crystal Palace, cruciate ligament)

this boy was something else ; Beardsley perhaps had a bit more trickery at his peak, but Green would have left him standing over 5 yards - he was electric, and his right foot was like a wand. Had a powerful shot too. Would have been worth 30m today. Gazza could have been the greatest English player of all time had he possessed Pele's temperament, but, as NE5 says, we have a much better CLUB now and the stadium is light-years away from what we had to stand in, even though standing was great. I once remember being in a toilet like a pig-sty, and someone remarking that the bog was 'HIV positive !!' - it was running with urine on the floor...!!

Still, the atmosphere was superb - remember the noise when we beat Spurs 3-1 in the LC Semi in 1976 -

absolutely brilliant.

 

All this reminds me - we are getting old...!!!

 

You couldn't get into the Gallowgate without having to almost swim through the piss.

[Tooj]

Speaking of Shearer.

 

Been a bit nostalgic today and been watching a few Shearer videos and such, in his prime the man was absolutely World Class, best forward this country has had for decades.

 

Such a shame we only got one season of the Shearer we signed.

[Guest scousertommy]

Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.

 

I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****.

 

John Barnes was the best English player of his generation (playing for Liverpool).Anyone who thinks otherwise either never saw him play regularly for us or is just basing their opinion on his performances for a s*** England team.

[Howaythelads]

Irving Nattrass was good but Alan Kennedy's cupboard full of medals would say he was better.

 

Not in the slightest does it say that. Kennedy played for a better team is what it says in the main. After saying that, you could say Kennedy had more ambition than Nattrass by signing for Liverpool, rather than Nattrass, who left us for the nappy rippers, of course.

[Howaythelads]

Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.

 

I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****.

 

John Barnes was the best English player of his generation (playing for Liverpool).Anyone who thinks otherwise either never saw him play regularly for us or is just basing their opinion on his performances for a s*** England team.

 

mackems.gif

[macbeth]

Irving Nattrass was good but Alan Kennedy's cupboard full of medals would say he was better.

David may better than Shearer then?  :parky:

Mick, I always thought that too as he is from Sunderland but his dad (mother a mackem) was a mag and 'swayed' him and his brother to supporting Newcastle.

 

Wierd comment by billy, its like saying Vinne Jones is better than Rob Lee because he won an FA Cup Winners medal.

 

For my money, I think Irving Nattrass is possibly one of the best, if not the best, most athletic, versatile and accomplished all round defenders I've ever seen at Newcastle. Kennedy was an attacking full back, and fitted into the Liverpool team as the other full back - Phil Neal - was an out and out defensive one.

 

But give me Nattrass, on their own merits, every time.

 

 

 

oh God I feel sick.

 

I agree with every word you say.

[Guest Pie]

Irving Nattrass was good but Alan Kennedy's cupboard full of medals would say he was better.

 

Not in the slightest does it say that. Kennedy played for a better team is what it says in the main. After saying that, you could say Kennedy had more ambition than Nattrass by signing for Liverpool, rather than Nattrass, who left us for the nappy rippers, of course.

My point exactly. But would Tommy Craig get in the side now?

[Guest Pie]

Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.

 

I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****.

 

John Barnes was the best English player of his generation (playing for Liverpool).Anyone who thinks otherwise either never saw him play regularly for us or is just basing their opinion on his performances for a s*** England team.

That'll be the sit England team that got to the World Cup semi-finals then? Very good player but couldn't kick Paul Gascoignes arse. Talking about each player at their peak, by the way.

[NE5]

Irving Nattrass was good but Alan Kennedy's cupboard full of medals would say he was better.

David may better than Shearer then?  :parky:

Mick, I always thought that too as he is from Sunderland but his dad (mother a mackem) was a mag and 'swayed' him and his brother to supporting Newcastle.

 

Wierd comment by billy, its like saying Vinne Jones is better than Rob Lee because he won an FA Cup Winners medal.

 

For my money, I think Irving Nattrass is possibly one of the best, if not the best, most athletic, versatile and accomplished all round defenders I've ever seen at Newcastle. Kennedy was an attacking full back, and fitted into the Liverpool team as the other full back - Phil Neal - was an out and out defensive one.

 

But give me Nattrass, on their own merits, every time.

 

 

 

oh God I feel sick.

 

I agree with every word you say.

 

a bit less of your agendas and money driven ambitions instead of footballing ones, and you would realise most of what I say is correct

 

[NE5]

Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.

 

I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****.

 

John Barnes was the best English player of his generation (playing for Liverpool).Anyone who thinks otherwise either never saw him play regularly for us or is just basing their opinion on his performances for a s*** England team.

That'll be the sit England team that got to the World Cup semi-finals then? Very good player but couldn't kick Paul Gascoignes arse. Talking about each player at their peak, by the way.

 

Correct. Gazza, if he had kept his head screwed on, could have been the worlds number 1. The cockney press say his best years were at Spurs, but his best was at Newcastle and with Spurs before the FA Cup Final, and Barnes was nowhere near him. He and Tony Green are the best 2 players I have ever seen play for the toon, and that includes Beardsley who was just as important to Liverpool as Barnes was.

 

Simple fact about Barnes is the fact he DIDN'T produce for England, which means you can't call him the best player of his generation based purely on his club form either.

 

 

[Guest scousertommy]

Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.

 

I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****.

 

John Barnes was the best English player of his generation (playing for Liverpool).Anyone who thinks otherwise either never saw him play regularly for us or is just basing their opinion on his performances for a s*** England team.

That'll be the sit England team that got to the World Cup semi-finals then? Very good player but couldn't kick Paul Gascoignes arse. Talking about each player at their peak, by the way.

 

 

That'll be the England team that didn't qualify in '84, lost every single game in '88 and '92 - yes that England. That was Barnes' peak period. Again, due to the lack of televised football, if you never watched him week in week out then you can't truly appreciate what an amazing player he was.

 

In the best Liverpool team I ever saw (inc. '84) Barnes was by far the stand out player.

[Guest Pie]

Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.

 

I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****.

 

John Barnes was the best English player of his generation (playing for Liverpool).Anyone who thinks otherwise either never saw him play regularly for us or is just basing their opinion on his performances for a s*** England team.

That'll be the sit England team that got to the World Cup semi-finals then? Very good player but couldn't kick Paul Gascoignes arse. Talking about each player at their peak, by the way.

 

 

That'll be the England team that didn't qualify in '84, lost every single game in '88 and '92 - yes that England. That was Barnes' peak period. Again, due to the lack of televised football, if you never watched him week in week out then you can't truly appreciate what an amazing player he was.

 

In the best Liverpool team I ever saw (inc. '84) Barnes was by far the stand out player.

Barnes was very good at club level, nobody disputes that. He was piss poor at international level. His performances were shocking. At his peak he was incapable of getting in, never mind influencing, an international team on anything approaching a regular basis. Top quality players do that sort of stuff.  They may not win anything, or indeed qualify for anything, but they will influence a side regularly. Gascoigne, Shearer, and Beardsley did it (90, 96, 86 respectively). Argentina are the obvious example when a very ordinary side actually won it due to a true 'stand out player'. I saw enough of John Barnes at Watford and Liverpool to recognise he was very good. I also saw the influence Keegan, Dalglish and Souness had at Liverpool (not on the telly either) and in my opinion they were all more accomplished players.

[macbeth]

]

 

Correct. Gazza, if he had kept his head screwed on, could have been the worlds number 1. The cockney press say his best years were at Spurs, but his best was at Newcastle and with Spurs before the FA Cup Final, and Barnes was nowhere near him. He and Tony Green are the best 2 players I have ever seen play for the toon, and that includes Beardsley who was just as important to Liverpool as Barnes was.

 

Simple fact about Barnes is the fact he DIDN'T produce for England, which means you can't call him the best player of his generation based purely on his club form either.

 

 

 

Not sure. Cantona never did it for France but was head and shoulders better than anyone in England for a few years. Hoddle was a fantastic player at club level. Geore Best too. That they never made it at international level may be down to circumstances.

 

I'm prepared to listen to your opinion on players, cos you've actually seen them play. Neither of us has been in the board room to see first hand how we end up with £100m debts, so its open to debate.

[Tooj]

]

 

Correct. Gazza, if he had kept his head screwed on, could have been the worlds number 1. The cockney press say his best years were at Spurs, but his best was at Newcastle and with Spurs before the FA Cup Final, and Barnes was nowhere near him. He and Tony Green are the best 2 players I have ever seen play for the toon, and that includes Beardsley who was just as important to Liverpool as Barnes was.

 

Simple fact about Barnes is the fact he DIDN'T produce for England, which means you can't call him the best player of his generation based purely on his club form either.

 

 

 

Not sure. Cantona never did it for France but was head and shoulders better than anyone in England for a few years. Hoddle was a fantastic player at club level. Geore Best too. That they never made it at international level may be down to circumstances.

 

I'm prepared to listen to your opinion on players, cos you've actually seen them play. Neither of us has been in the board room to see first hand how we end up with £100m debts, so its open to debate.

 

Cantona's scoring record for France was unbelievable, I wouldn't say he never done it for them.

[Guest Pie]

]

 

Correct. Gazza, if he had kept his head screwed on, could have been the worlds number 1. The cockney press say his best years were at Spurs, but his best was at Newcastle and with Spurs before the FA Cup Final, and Barnes was nowhere near him. He and Tony Green are the best 2 players I have ever seen play for the toon, and that includes Beardsley who was just as important to Liverpool as Barnes was.

 

Simple fact about Barnes is the fact he DIDN'T produce for England, which means you can't call him the best player of his generation based purely on his club form either.

 

 

 

Not sure. Cantona never did it for France but was head and shoulders better than anyone in England for a few years. Hoddle was a fantastic player at club level. Geore Best too. That they never made it at international level may be down to circumstances.

 

I'm prepared to listen to your opinion on players, cos you've actually seen them play. Neither of us has been in the board room to see first hand how we end up with £100m debts, so its open to debate.

Cantona was never going to get a regular game for very different reasons. Best wasn't going to excel at that level simply because of his nationality. Hoddle was too fat and slow! Of course circumstances play their part but you have to look at the rule rather the exception to them. Mattheus, Sammer, Rummenigge, Charlton, Maradona, Muller, Gullit, Rijkaard, van Basten all thrived at both levels. Some like Pierre Littbarski were at the wrong clubs but excelled at international level. Wish we had someone like him here now tbh.

[NE5]

]

 

Correct. Gazza, if he had kept his head screwed on, could have been the worlds number 1. The cockney press say his best years were at Spurs, but his best was at Newcastle and with Spurs before the FA Cup Final, and Barnes was nowhere near him. He and Tony Green are the best 2 players I have ever seen play for the toon, and that includes Beardsley who was just as important to Liverpool as Barnes was.

 

Simple fact about Barnes is the fact he DIDN'T produce for England, which means you can't call him the best player of his generation based purely on his club form either.

 

 

 

Not sure. Cantona never did it for France but was head and shoulders better than anyone in England for a few years. Hoddle was a fantastic player at club level. Geore Best too. That they never made it at international level may be down to circumstances.

 

I'm prepared to listen to your opinion on players, cos you've actually seen them play. Neither of us has been in the board room to see first hand how we end up with £100m debts, so its open to debate.

 

Pie and johnny have commented on Cantona and Best, both of which I agree. Hoddle ?? Well, I know he had talent, but he wasted it and like Barnes didnt' perform for England. He didn't have the hunger IMO, and besides that wasn't as good as Gazza or Bryan Robson either. If you are going to say players are the best of their generation they must perform both for their clubs and their country.

 

I don't think many people would say George Best wouldn't have showed everyone how brilliant he was if he had played in the World Cup for a bigger country, but it IS open to debate because he didn't.

 

As for debts, I recognise that football is different to "normal" business, and sometimes you have to have debts. We have said this before, its all about risk taking, but ultimately the success of the risk depends on if you have a manager who knows what he is doing. In an industry where only 3 teams a year are successful in terms of winning trophies, thats a pretty stiff criteria. One thing is certain though, if you DON'T take risks and the other clubs buy the best players, you certainly won't match them.

 

 

[Cajun]

This has been a great thread to read fellas. This isn't meant at a dig but this is the kind of involvement I have said some of the more experiences members should be involved in rather than the petty squabbles. Its good to read comments from people who have been there and done it aswell as those who have obviously put a lot of effort into finding out the history

[Guest Pie]

]

 

Correct. Gazza, if he had kept his head screwed on, could have been the worlds number 1. The cockney press say his best years were at Spurs, but his best was at Newcastle and with Spurs before the FA Cup Final, and Barnes was nowhere near him. He and Tony Green are the best 2 players I have ever seen play for the toon, and that includes Beardsley who was just as important to Liverpool as Barnes was.

 

Simple fact about Barnes is the fact he DIDN'T produce for England, which means you can't call him the best player of his generation based purely on his club form either.

 

 

 

Not sure. Cantona never did it for France but was head and shoulders better than anyone in England for a few years. Hoddle was a fantastic player at club level. Geore Best too. That they never made it at international level may be down to circumstances.

 

I'm prepared to listen to your opinion on players, cos you've actually seen them play. Neither of us has been in the board room to see first hand how we end up with £100m debts, so its open to debate.

 

Pie and johnny have commented on Cantona and Best, both of which I agree. Hoddle ?? Well, I know he had talent, but he wasted it and like Barnes didnt' perform for England. He didn't have the hunger IMO, and besides that wasn't as good as Gazza or Bryan Robson either. If you are going to say players are the best of their generation they must perform both for their clubs and their country.

 

I don't think many people would say George Best wouldn't have showed everyone how brilliant he was if he had played in the World Cup for a bigger country, but it IS open to debate because he didn't.

 

As for debts, I recognise that football is different to "normal" business, and sometimes you have to have debts. We have said this before, its all about risk taking, but ultimately the success of the risk depends on if you have a manager who knows what he is doing. In an industry where only 3 teams a year are successful in terms of winning trophies, thats a pretty stiff criteria. One thing is certain though, if you DON'T take risks and the other clubs buy the best players, you certainly won't match them.

 

 

Good call on Bryan Robson.

[Tooj]

Bryan Robson never gets the praise he deserves from the Sky generation of fans who just all think of him as a shit manager, not one of the best players we have ever produced.

[Guest Pie]

Bryan Robson never gets the praise he deserves from the Sky generation of fans who just all think of him as a s*** manager, not one of the best players we have ever produced.

You're right. The subsequent activities players get up to shouldn't distract from their excellence as players. Some play well in patches (e.g. Keith Gillespie was a far better player than many will recognise him as now) and others become shit managers. that seems to distract from what they did previously. It shouldn't. Now Bryan Robson definitely  is a Newcastle fan!