The dark shadow of the D.O.F. (Jol wanted Elano and was ignored).

[Parky]

Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA.

 

Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager?

 

Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance.

DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses.

 

 

Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it.

 

 

I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce.

 

Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side.

 

Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise.

 

Mourinho's departure in part was imho self-inflicted.  If after winning a couple of Premierships the owner says he wants more flair and style in the play, Mourinho can't be surprised when he's sacked if he carries on as he had done for the past 2 years.  Winning 2 premierships shouldn't be discounted but if Abramovich says he wants attacking play, he'll keep making changes until he gets what he wants.  Abramovich possibly going to his mate Grant saying "Should I get better attacking play from this squad?" and getting  the answer "Of course mate, I could easily produce more exciting play" wouldn't have helped Mourinho's cause either!

 

 

If he wanted more flair and style it might have been an idea to let Jose buy the players HE wanted and not the players recommended or purchased by the various 'power bases' at work at Stamford Bridge.

[Guest prestonj1989]

Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA.

 

Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager?

 

Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance.

DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses.

 

 

Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it.

 

 

I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce.

 

Agreed 100%

[Martin Lol]

Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA.

 

Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager?

 

Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance.

DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses.

 

 

Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it.

 

 

I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce.

 

Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side.

 

Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise.

 

Mourinho's departure in part was imho self-inflicted.  If after winning a couple of Premierships the owner says he wants more flair and style in the play, Mourinho can't be surprised when he's sacked if he carries on as he had done for the past 2 years.  Winning 2 premierships shouldn't be discounted but if Abramovich says he wants attacking play, he'll keep making changes until he gets what he wants.  Abramovich possibly going to his mate Grant saying "Should I get better attacking play from this squad?" and getting  the answer "Of course mate, I could easily produce more exciting play" wouldn't have helped Mourinho's cause either!

 

 

If he wanted more flair and style it might have been an idea to let Jose buy the players HE wanted and not the players recommended or purchased by the various 'power bases' at work at Stamford Bridge.

 

Couldn't agree more.  But Schevchenko is a friend of Abramovich just like Avram Grant.  Maybe the real problem is that Abramovich has too many friends?? :lol:

[Parky]

Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA.

 

Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager?

 

Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance.

DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses.

 

 

Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it.

 

 

I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce.

 

Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side.

 

Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise.

 

Mourinho's departure in part was imho self-inflicted.  If after winning a couple of Premierships the owner says he wants more flair and style in the play, Mourinho can't be surprised when he's sacked if he carries on as he had done for the past 2 years.  Winning 2 premierships shouldn't be discounted but if Abramovich says he wants attacking play, he'll keep making changes until he gets what he wants.  Abramovich possibly going to his mate Grant saying "Should I get better attacking play from this squad?" and getting  the answer "Of course mate, I could easily produce more exciting play" wouldn't have helped Mourinho's cause either!

 

 

If he wanted more flair and style it might have been an idea to let Jose buy the players HE wanted and not the players recommended or purchased by the various 'power bases' at work at Stamford Bridge.

 

Couldn't agree more.  But Schevchenko is a friend of Abramovich just like Avram Grant.  Maybe the real problem is that Abramovich has too many friends?? :lol:

 

 

I want to be his friend.

[NE5]

Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA.

 

Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager?

 

Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance.

DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses.

 

 

Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it.

 

 

I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce.

 

Agreed 100%

 

seconded

 

and thirded ........

 

 

[ChezGiven]

I'm not sure there is a lot of evidence for a DoF in the english league but its important to note how bigger, better clubs have moved on and are performing far better. It has to be right for the club though. You cant impose an ideology on a club without the decision making structures being in place and the right culture being there. NUFC isnt ready for a DoF as our manager isnt ready for one. Otherwise he would have sorted it already.

[Guest Ironskull]

The thing is, just about any system is a compromise unless you have a managerial giant such as AW or SAF. And most circumstamces cannot be scripted, so clubs need to adapt quickly to the unexpected. In real life as opposed to football, it happens all the time; systems cannot be rigid, they have to adapted to the skills and aptitudes of the people available. It's not uncommon to find businesses similar on the outside, but with very different operating systems and corporate cultures.

 

So, most clubs have to compromise. Levy at Spurs took his advice from Alan Sugar who told him that he (Sugar), knew little about football and that he (Levy) would be the same and should have an experienced football person as his right hand man. That's where the DoF role at Spurs grew from, though it might be said that Venables was a DoF when he was known as CEO in the early 80s and Doug Livermore and Ray Clemence were in charge.

 

I'm a bit surprised at the hostility among football followers towards the DoF system. It's not surprising that managers and therefore pundits and "experts" themselves are opposed to it though. We're all used to naive and ignorant Club Chairmen, and unless we're living on the moon, none of us will be ignorant of some of the excesses of all-powerful managers at clubs from the top of the game to the bottom. How many of the managers you've encountered albeit at a distance, really inspire you with their clarity of thought, man-management skills, tactical insight, honesty and so on? How many of them have been great coaches but stretched beyond their abilities when asked to manage? Ignorant chairmen and unsophisticated managers is the basic combination that most clubs have used since the game began. I was going to say wide-boy managers but it would be unfair, but plenty of them have in the past been wide-boy types. And yes unsophisticated is an unfair generalisation where some are concerned, but....

 

Which leads back to Spurs. Who on earth, in terms of big-name managers would have joined them 3 years ago? No-one. OK Santini did, but putting Jol in as 1st team coach with a more limited remit than a traditional manager, working within a DoF system, makes sense to me. Jol's no slouch as a coach, but by the same token, he's had his fair share of detractors and doubters; and the criticisms made of him have been analytical and precise - not knee-jerk criticisms. The people that put him there decided he needed to be replaced, so they sought out a replacement. That's their job. I don't feel sorry for Jol - he's been paid off handsomely and now Spurs have a man with a better track-record. Jol was probably the best they could have expected at the time and now they've improved on him... Time will tell on that one.

 

Anyway that's enough. I'm a Spurs fan and a guest here so I won't go on except to say that of course the founders of Spurs were inspired by a Northumbrian, and I've just had a fantastic week's holiday with my kids visiting places like Alnwick and Amble, and loved every minute of it, just as I used to as a kid.

 

Adios and if you have to finish above us then I hope we're fifth again.

 

 

[Cronky]

 

Europeans have a different approach to descision making as we both have experienced Chez.

 

That sounds interesting. Could you expand on this 'different approach'?

 

For me it's fairly simple. In any business, if you're putting someone in charge of producing results (ie the manager), you have to give him the means to achieve those results. Choosing staff correctly is an absolutely vital part of achieving results, and if you compromise the manager's authority in that area, then you'll have problems.

[Baggio]

The thing is, just about any system is a compromise unless you have a managerial giant such as AW or SAF. And most circumstamces cannot be scripted, so clubs need to adapt quickly to the unexpected. In real life as opposed to football, it happens all the time; systems cannot be rigid, they have to adapted to the skills and aptitudes of the people available. It's not uncommon to find businesses similar on the outside, but with very different operating systems and corporate cultures.

 

So, most clubs have to compromise. Levy at Spurs took his advice from Alan Sugar who told him that he (Sugar), knew little about football and that he (Levy) would be the same and should have an experienced football person as his right hand man. That's where the DoF role at Spurs grew from, though it might be said that Venables was a DoF when he was known as CEO in the early 80s and Doug Livermore and Ray Clemence were in charge.

 

I'm a bit surprised at the hostility among football followers towards the DoF system. It's not surprising that managers and therefore pundits and "experts" themselves are opposed to it though. We're all used to naive and ignorant Club Chairmen, and unless we're living on the moon, none of us will be ignorant of some of the excesses of all-powerful managers at clubs from the top of the game to the bottom. How many of the managers you've encountered albeit at a distance, really inspire you with their clarity of thought, man-management skills, tactical insight, honesty and so on? How many of them have been great coaches but stretched beyond their abilities when asked to manage? Ignorant chairmen and unsophisticated managers is the basic combination that most clubs have used since the game began. I was going to say wide-boy managers but it would be unfair, but plenty of them have in the past been wide-boy types. And yes unsophisticated is an unfair generalisation where some are concerned, but....

 

Which leads back to Spurs. Who on earth, in terms of big-name managers would have joined them 3 years ago? No-one. OK Santini did, but putting Jol in as 1st team coach with a more limited remit than a traditional manager, working within a DoF system, makes sense to me. Jol's no slouch as a coach, but by the same token, he's had his fair share of detractors and doubters; and the criticisms made of him have been analytical and precise - not knee-jerk criticisms. The people that put him there decided he needed to be replaced, so they sought out a replacement. That's their job. I don't feel sorry for Jol - he's been paid off handsomely and now Spurs have a man with a better track-record. Jol was probably the best they could have expected at the time and now they've improved on him... Time will tell on that one.

 

Anyway that's enough. I'm a Spurs fan and a guest here so I won't go on except to say that of course the founders of Spurs were inspired by a Northumbrian, and I've just had a fantastic week's holiday with my kids visiting places like Alnwick and Amble, and loved every minute of it, just as I used to as a kid.

 

Adios and if you have to finish above us then I hope we're fifth again.

 

 

 

Good post, it'll be wasted on here though.

 

People need to realise football is much bigger than the first team and to transform this club it'll take more than one man to do everything, do people honestly think fat Sam will sort our youth system out so we can attract other clubs youngsters like the other big clubs do? When was the last time a young British lad left another clubs set up for ours?

 

Johnnypd also makes a good post when he talks about Milne and how we would have been better off keeping him on and getting him to help run the other side of the club, we didn't though and sacked everyone, destroying all of Sir Bobby's good work and then had to go to the trouble of getting another manager in to build it up again, he didn't work out so they were all sacked and Roeder was expected to completely change the club, when he took charge the club had one scout on it's books, for a so called big club that's fucking shocking.

 

Look at the jobs both Ramos and Allardyce have taken on this season and fat Sam has a lot more work ahead of him out of the two, Ramos will walk into Spurs and only have to worry about the first team squad, their youth team (that has been buying some top youngsters) scouts etc have all been taken care of by Comolli, Allardyce on the other hand will have to come here and transform the lot himself while trying to coach the first team squad and focus on picking up 3 points every week, it's too big of a job for one man and he won't get the 8 years he had at Bolton to get it right either.

[Lotus]

The thing is, just about any system is a compromise unless you have a managerial giant such as AW or SAF. And most circumstamces cannot be scripted, so clubs need to adapt quickly to the unexpected. In real life as opposed to football, it happens all the time; systems cannot be rigid, they have to adapted to the skills and aptitudes of the people available. It's not uncommon to find businesses similar on the outside, but with very different operating systems and corporate cultures.

 

So, most clubs have to compromise. Levy at Spurs took his advice from Alan Sugar who told him that he (Sugar), knew little about football and that he (Levy) would be the same and should have an experienced football person as his right hand man. That's where the DoF role at Spurs grew from, though it might be said that Venables was a DoF when he was known as CEO in the early 80s and Doug Livermore and Ray Clemence were in charge.

 

I'm a bit surprised at the hostility among football followers towards the DoF system. It's not surprising that managers and therefore pundits and "experts" themselves are opposed to it though. We're all used to naive and ignorant Club Chairmen, and unless we're living on the moon, none of us will be ignorant of some of the excesses of all-powerful managers at clubs from the top of the game to the bottom. How many of the managers you've encountered albeit at a distance, really inspire you with their clarity of thought, man-management skills, tactical insight, honesty and so on? How many of them have been great coaches but stretched beyond their abilities when asked to manage? Ignorant chairmen and unsophisticated managers is the basic combination that most clubs have used since the game began. I was going to say wide-boy managers but it would be unfair, but plenty of them have in the past been wide-boy types. And yes unsophisticated is an unfair generalisation where some are concerned, but....

 

Which leads back to Spurs. Who on earth, in terms of big-name managers would have joined them 3 years ago? No-one. OK Santini did, but putting Jol in as 1st team coach with a more limited remit than a traditional manager, working within a DoF system, makes sense to me. Jol's no slouch as a coach, but by the same token, he's had his fair share of detractors and doubters; and the criticisms made of him have been analytical and precise - not knee-jerk criticisms. The people that put him there decided he needed to be replaced, so they sought out a replacement. That's their job. I don't feel sorry for Jol - he's been paid off handsomely and now Spurs have a man with a better track-record. Jol was probably the best they could have expected at the time and now they've improved on him... Time will tell on that one.

 

Anyway that's enough. I'm a Spurs fan and a guest here so I won't go on except to say that of course the founders of Spurs were inspired by a Northumbrian, and I've just had a fantastic week's holiday with my kids visiting places like Alnwick and Amble, and loved every minute of it, just as I used to as a kid.

 

Adios and if you have to finish above us then I hope we're fifth again.

 

 

 

Good post, it'll be wasted on here though.

 

People need to realise football is much bigger than the first team and to transform this club it'll take more than one man to do everything, do people honestly think fat Sam will sort our youth system out so we can attract other clubs youngsters like the other big clubs do? When was the last time a young British lad left another clubs set up for ours?

 

Johnnypd also makes a good post when he talks about Milne and how we would have been better off keeping him on and getting him to help run the other side of the club, we didn't though and sacked everyone, destroying all of Sir Bobby's good work and then had to go to the trouble of getting another manager in to build it up again, he didn't work out so they were all sacked and Roeder was expected to completely change the club, when he took charge the club had one scout on it's books, for a so called big club that's f****** shocking.

 

Look at the jobs both Ramos and Allardyce have taken on this season and fat Sam has a lot more work ahead of him out of the two, Ramos will walk into Spurs and only have to worry about the first team squad, their youth team (that has been buying some top youngsters) scouts etc have all been taken care of by Comolli, Allardyce on the other hand will have to come here and transform the lot himself while trying to coach the first team squad and focus on picking up 3 points every week, it's too big of a job for one man and he won't get the 8 years he had at Bolton to get it right either.

Very logical, probably why you haven't had any replies..... maybe BSA has plans to employ various people to take over those aspects of the job anyway.

 

[Parky]

Are we talking about the same club that is 3rd bottom? 

[Mowen]

Are we talking about the same club that is 3rd bottom? 

 

Where were we when SBR got sacked? Did that mean we were shit and a DoF was to blame?

[NE5]

The thing is, just about any system is a compromise unless you have a managerial giant such as AW or SAF. And most circumstamces cannot be scripted, so clubs need to adapt quickly to the unexpected. In real life as opposed to football, it happens all the time; systems cannot be rigid, they have to adapted to the skills and aptitudes of the people available. It's not uncommon to find businesses similar on the outside, but with very different operating systems and corporate cultures.

 

So, most clubs have to compromise. Levy at Spurs took his advice from Alan Sugar who told him that he (Sugar), knew little about football and that he (Levy) would be the same and should have an experienced football person as his right hand man. That's where the DoF role at Spurs grew from, though it might be said that Venables was a DoF when he was known as CEO in the early 80s and Doug Livermore and Ray Clemence were in charge.

 

I'm a bit surprised at the hostility among football followers towards the DoF system. It's not surprising that managers and therefore pundits and "experts" themselves are opposed to it though. We're all used to naive and ignorant Club Chairmen, and unless we're living on the moon, none of us will be ignorant of some of the excesses of all-powerful managers at clubs from the top of the game to the bottom. How many of the managers you've encountered albeit at a distance, really inspire you with their clarity of thought, man-management skills, tactical insight, honesty and so on? How many of them have been great coaches but stretched beyond their abilities when asked to manage? Ignorant chairmen and unsophisticated managers is the basic combination that most clubs have used since the game began. I was going to say wide-boy managers but it would be unfair, but plenty of them have in the past been wide-boy types. And yes unsophisticated is an unfair generalisation where some are concerned, but....

 

Which leads back to Spurs. Who on earth, in terms of big-name managers would have joined them 3 years ago? No-one. OK Santini did, but putting Jol in as 1st team coach with a more limited remit than a traditional manager, working within a DoF system, makes sense to me. Jol's no slouch as a coach, but by the same token, he's had his fair share of detractors and doubters; and the criticisms made of him have been analytical and precise - not knee-jerk criticisms. The people that put him there decided he needed to be replaced, so they sought out a replacement. That's their job. I don't feel sorry for Jol - he's been paid off handsomely and now Spurs have a man with a better track-record. Jol was probably the best they could have expected at the time and now they've improved on him... Time will tell on that one.

 

Anyway that's enough. I'm a Spurs fan and a guest here so I won't go on except to say that of course the founders of Spurs were inspired by a Northumbrian, and I've just had a fantastic week's holiday with my kids visiting places like Alnwick and Amble, and loved every minute of it, just as I used to as a kid.

 

Adios and if you have to finish above us then I hope we're fifth again.

 

 

 

Good post, it'll be wasted on here though.

 

People need to realise football is much bigger than the first team and to transform this club it'll take more than one man to do everything, do people honestly think fat Sam will sort our youth system out so we can attract other clubs youngsters like the other big clubs do? When was the last time a young British lad left another clubs set up for ours?

 

Johnnypd also makes a good post when he talks about Milne and how we would have been better off keeping him on and getting him to help run the other side of the club, we didn't though and sacked everyone, destroying all of Sir Bobby's good work and then had to go to the trouble of getting another manager in to build it up again, he didn't work out so they were all sacked and Roeder was expected to completely change the club, when he took charge the club had one scout on it's books, for a so called big club that's f****** shocking.

 

Look at the jobs both Ramos and Allardyce have taken on this season and fat Sam has a lot more work ahead of him out of the two, Ramos will walk into Spurs and only have to worry about the first team squad, their youth team (that has been buying some top youngsters) scouts etc have all been taken care of by Comolli, Allardyce on the other hand will have to come here and transform the lot himself while trying to coach the first team squad and focus on picking up 3 points every week, it's too big of a job for one man and he won't get the 8 years he had at Bolton to get it right either.

Very logical, probably why you haven't had any replies..... maybe BSA has plans to employ various people to take over those aspects of the job anyway.

 

 

Not at all. I don't see anyone disagreeing that you need a team of people to run everything that is involved with football clubs, its just that we [or some of us] disagree with the concept that someone can have a footballing input who hasn't been chosen personally by the manager.

 

 

 

[NE5]

Are we talking about the same club that is 3rd bottom? 

 

This is true. So much for the "system". Its the people that count.

 

 

[Baggio]

Are we talking about the same club that is 3rd bottom? 

 

This is true. So much for the "system". Its the people that count.

 

 

 

You've missed this point though NE5.

 

"Look at the jobs both Ramos and Allardyce have taken on this season and fat Sam has a lot more work ahead of him out of the two, Ramos will walk into Spurs and only have to worry about the first team squad, their youth team (that has been buying some top youngsters) scouts etc have all been taken care of by Comolli, Allardyce on the other hand will have to come here and transform the lot himself while trying to coach the first team squad and focus on picking up 3 points every week, it's too big of a job for one man and he won't get the 8 years he had at Bolton to get it right either."

 

Do you agree Allardyce will have more work to do or not?

 

Also, if Allardyce doesn't work out would you prefer someone to keep the whole structure at the club he's spent time trying to put in place or would you prefer Mort to sack the lot of them and have the new manager start from scratch?

 

 

[Parky]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

[kevin doyle]

Reading have a DOF.He was in place before Coppell and was charged with finding a new manager when Pardew left.The chairman knows nowt about football and so left it to Hammond(who Wenger wanted to join Arsenal when Dein left).

[Baggio]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

 

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc.

 

Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system.

 

I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches.

[NE5]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

 

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc.

 

Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system.

 

I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches.

 

I have no problem with dieticians etc, nor have I ever mentioned them or said I have, they are not part of the footballing strategy. If they do a shit job they will be replaced, simple.

 

I'm talking about scouts and people employed in the footballing areas. The manager chooses his staff.

 

And - if we had a system which left us in the position that Spurs are in at the moment, I would seriously question the merits of the system.

 

You are also missing the point that the Spurs "system" hasn't worked as well as they would have liked either Baggio. What is it that makes these DOF's indestructible ? What would happen if everyone had a DOF ? {i've asked this before, if you answered I can't remember having seen it}

 

 

 

[Baggio]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

 

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc.

 

Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system.

 

I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches.

 

I have no problem with dieticians etc, nor have I ever mentioned them or said I have, they are not part of the footballing strategy. If they do a shit job they will be replaced, simple.

 

I'm talking about scouts and people employed in the footballing areas. The manager chooses his staff.

 

And - if we had a system which left us in the position that Spurs are in at the moment, I would seriously question the merits of the system.

 

You are also missing the point that the Spurs "system" hasn't worked as well as they would have liked either Baggio. What is it that makes these DOF's indestructible ? What would happen if everyone had a DOF ? {i've asked this before, if you answered I can't remember having seen it}

 

 

How has the DOF not worked well for Spurs?

 

Martin Jol hasn't worked out and he's been replaced with a better coach, the whole set up has worked well for them though, try and look at how Spurs have evolved as a club away from their league positioning, they've revamped their academy and are now buying up some great young talents around Europe as well as promising English lads like Danny Rose from Leeds, they've got an excellent wage structure in place which has made the club more healthy and one that has made huge profits.

 

Away from the pitch they are in a better condition than they have been previously for years, on the pitch it hasn't worked out for them this season and Martin Jol has lost his job because of it, away from the pitch though they are in great shape and Ramos will be able to walk straight into the club and have to concentrate on the first team only, now compare that to Allardyce who had to come here and sort everything himself, even advertising on the official site for employee's because he walked into the club which was down to the bare bones because nobody has took a grip on the club since Milne under Robson, now how much easier would life have been for Sam if he had walked into the club and the majority of things had already been in place?

 

To answer your question - If everyone had a DOF then it would of course come down to money with the big clubs with the best players, managers and DOF's doing better, however I doubt we would see many managers coming into clubs with as much work needed doing as Allardyce had when he came here.

 

 

[Martin Lol]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

 

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc.

 

Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system.

 

I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches.

 

I have no problem with dieticians etc, nor have I ever mentioned them or said I have, they are not part of the footballing strategy. If they do a s*** job they will be replaced, simple.

 

I'm talking about scouts and people employed in the footballing areas. The manager chooses his staff.

 

And - if we had a system which left us in the position that Spurs are in at the moment, I would seriously question the merits of the system.

 

You are also missing the point that the Spurs "system" hasn't worked as well as they would have liked either Baggio. What is it that makes these DOF's indestructible ? What would happen if everyone had a DOF ? {i've asked this before, if you answered I can't remember having seen it}

 

 

How has the DOF not worked well for Spurs?

 

Martin Jol hasn't worked out and he's been replaced with a better coach, the whole set up has worked well for them though, try and look at how Spurs have evolved as a club away from their league positioning, they've revamped their academy and are now buying up some great young talents around Europe as well as promising English lads like Danny Rose from Leeds, they've got an excellent wage structure in place which has made the club more healthy and one that has made huge profits.

 

Away from the pitch they are in a better condition than they have been previously for years, on the pitch it hasn't worked out for them this season and Martin Jol has lost his job because of it, away from the pitch though they are in great shape and Ramos will be able to walk straight into the club and have to concentrate on the first team only, now compare that to Allardyce who had to come here and sort everything himself, even advertising on the official site for employee's because he walked into the club which was down to the bare bones because nobody has took a grip on the club since Milne under Robson, now how much easier would life have been for Sam if he had walked into the club and the majority of things had already been in place?

 

To answer your question - If everyone had a DOF then it would of course come down to money with the big clubs with the best players, managers and DOF's doing better, however I doubt we would see many managers coming into clubs with as much work needed doing as Allardyce had when he came here.

 

 

 

Can't disagree with you tbh. 

 

Putting it into simplistic terms, there are 2 people running different areas of the club and they put their heads together when it comes to deciding upon new signings.  If the man responsible for the results of the first team is failing, get shot and bring in someone who you hope will do the job better.  In the meantime the overall strategy remains intact, the scouting system remains, the club can progress with the new man brought in without too much upheaval.  Compare that to  the manager being sacked or leaving for another club, taking all of his backroom staff and scouts with him, leaving the new man to start from scratch.

 

The new man with the system in place must have a better chance of more immediate success.

[NE5]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

 

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc.

 

Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system.

 

I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches.

 

I have no problem with dieticians etc, nor have I ever mentioned them or said I have, they are not part of the footballing strategy. If they do a shit job they will be replaced, simple.

 

I'm talking about scouts and people employed in the footballing areas. The manager chooses his staff.

 

And - if we had a system which left us in the position that Spurs are in at the moment, I would seriously question the merits of the system.

 

You are also missing the point that the Spurs "system" hasn't worked as well as they would have liked either Baggio. What is it that makes these DOF's indestructible ? What would happen if everyone had a DOF ? {i've asked this before, if you answered I can't remember having seen it}

 

 

How has the DOF not worked well for Spurs?

 

Martin Jol hasn't worked out and he's been replaced with a better coach, the whole set up has worked well for them though, try and look at how Spurs have evolved as a club away from their league positioning, they've revamped their academy and are now buying up some great young talents around Europe as well as promising English lads like Danny Rose from Leeds, they've got an excellent wage structure in place which has made the club more healthy and one that has made huge profits.

 

Away from the pitch they are in a better condition than they have been previously for years, on the pitch it hasn't worked out for them this season and Martin Jol has lost his job because of it, away from the pitch though they are in great shape and Ramos will be able to walk straight into the club and have to concentrate on the first team only, now compare that to Allardyce who had to come here and sort everything himself, even advertising on the official site for employee's because he walked into the club which was down to the bare bones because nobody has took a grip on the club since Milne under Robson, now how much easier would life have been for Sam if he had walked into the club and the majority of things had already been in place?

 

To answer your question - If everyone had a DOF then it would of course come down to money with the big clubs with the best players, managers and DOF's doing better, however I doubt we would see many managers coming into clubs with as much work needed doing as Allardyce had when he came here.

 

 

 

3rd bottom of the league, and the bold bit is exactly the same as we did under Bobby Robson

 

 

[Baggio]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

 

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc.

 

Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system.

 

I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches.

 

I have no problem with dieticians etc, nor have I ever mentioned them or said I have, they are not part of the footballing strategy. If they do a shit job they will be replaced, simple.

 

I'm talking about scouts and people employed in the footballing areas. The manager chooses his staff.

 

And - if we had a system which left us in the position that Spurs are in at the moment, I would seriously question the merits of the system.

 

You are also missing the point that the Spurs "system" hasn't worked as well as they would have liked either Baggio. What is it that makes these DOF's indestructible ? What would happen if everyone had a DOF ? {i've asked this before, if you answered I can't remember having seen it}

 

 

How has the DOF not worked well for Spurs?

 

Martin Jol hasn't worked out and he's been replaced with a better coach, the whole set up has worked well for them though, try and look at how Spurs have evolved as a club away from their league positioning, they've revamped their academy and are now buying up some great young talents around Europe as well as promising English lads like Danny Rose from Leeds, they've got an excellent wage structure in place which has made the club more healthy and one that has made huge profits.

 

Away from the pitch they are in a better condition than they have been previously for years, on the pitch it hasn't worked out for them this season and Martin Jol has lost his job because of it, away from the pitch though they are in great shape and Ramos will be able to walk straight into the club and have to concentrate on the first team only, now compare that to Allardyce who had to come here and sort everything himself, even advertising on the official site for employee's because he walked into the club which was down to the bare bones because nobody has took a grip on the club since Milne under Robson, now how much easier would life have been for Sam if he had walked into the club and the majority of things had already been in place?

 

To answer your question - If everyone had a DOF then it would of course come down to money with the big clubs with the best players, managers and DOF's doing better, however I doubt we would see many managers coming into clubs with as much work needed doing as Allardyce had when he came here.

 

 

 

3rd bottom of the league, and the bold bit is exactly the same as we did under Bobby Robson

 

 

 

3rd bottom of the league and Martin Jol has lost his job because of that, he was the coach and the first team results were his responsibility, lucky Comolli has gone out and got a better coach who can come in and get straight to work at trying to sort out the first team without having to worry about the academy, scouts etc. Have you read anything what myself, Martin Jol or Johnnypd have said about the role?

 

As for your point about Robson, we signed young players to go straight into the first team, Spurs, like Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd sign them up before they even make the first team and to develop them themselves in their academy, the only player under Robson we signed who hadn't represented their current first team was N'Zogbia and he was picked up by our DOF at the time.

[NE5]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

 

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc.

 

Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system.

 

I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches.

 

I have no problem with dieticians etc, nor have I ever mentioned them or said I have, they are not part of the footballing strategy. If they do a shit job they will be replaced, simple.

 

I'm talking about scouts and people employed in the footballing areas. The manager chooses his staff.

 

And - if we had a system which left us in the position that Spurs are in at the moment, I would seriously question the merits of the system.

 

You are also missing the point that the Spurs "system" hasn't worked as well as they would have liked either Baggio. What is it that makes these DOF's indestructible ? What would happen if everyone had a DOF ? {i've asked this before, if you answered I can't remember having seen it}

 

 

How has the DOF not worked well for Spurs?

 

Martin Jol hasn't worked out and he's been replaced with a better coach, the whole set up has worked well for them though, try and look at how Spurs have evolved as a club away from their league positioning, they've revamped their academy and are now buying up some great young talents around Europe as well as promising English lads like Danny Rose from Leeds, they've got an excellent wage structure in place which has made the club more healthy and one that has made huge profits.

 

Away from the pitch they are in a better condition than they have been previously for years, on the pitch it hasn't worked out for them this season and Martin Jol has lost his job because of it, away from the pitch though they are in great shape and Ramos will be able to walk straight into the club and have to concentrate on the first team only, now compare that to Allardyce who had to come here and sort everything himself, even advertising on the official site for employee's because he walked into the club which was down to the bare bones because nobody has took a grip on the club since Milne under Robson, now how much easier would life have been for Sam if he had walked into the club and the majority of things had already been in place?

 

To answer your question - If everyone had a DOF then it would of course come down to money with the big clubs with the best players, managers and DOF's doing better, however I doubt we would see many managers coming into clubs with as much work needed doing as Allardyce had when he came here.

 

 

 

3rd bottom of the league, and the bold bit is exactly the same as we did under Bobby Robson

 

 

 

3rd bottom of the league and Martin Jol has lost his job because of that, he was the coach and the first team results were his responsibility, lucky Comolli has gone out and got a better coach who can come in and get straight to work at trying to sort out the first team without having to worry about the academy, scouts etc. Have you read anything what myself, Martin Jol or Johnnypd have said about the role?

 

As for your point about Robson, we signed young players to go straight into the first team, Spurs, like Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd sign them up before they even make the first team and to develop them themselves in their academy, the only player under Robson we signed who hadn't represented their current first team was N'Zogbia and he was picked up by our DOF at the time.

 

Gavilan, Ambrose, Viana all went straight into the first team ?

 

I would prefer to say that zoggy was picked up by our scout, who was answerable to the manager of the club.

 

 

[Baggio]

Sam always hires about 20million helpers tho doesn't he?

 

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc.

 

Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system.

 

I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches.

 

I have no problem with dieticians etc, nor have I ever mentioned them or said I have, they are not part of the footballing strategy. If they do a shit job they will be replaced, simple.

 

I'm talking about scouts and people employed in the footballing areas. The manager chooses his staff.

 

And - if we had a system which left us in the position that Spurs are in at the moment, I would seriously question the merits of the system.

 

You are also missing the point that the Spurs "system" hasn't worked as well as they would have liked either Baggio. What is it that makes these DOF's indestructible ? What would happen if everyone had a DOF ? {i've asked this before, if you answered I can't remember having seen it}

 

 

How has the DOF not worked well for Spurs?

 

Martin Jol hasn't worked out and he's been replaced with a better coach, the whole set up has worked well for them though, try and look at how Spurs have evolved as a club away from their league positioning, they've revamped their academy and are now buying up some great young talents around Europe as well as promising English lads like Danny Rose from Leeds, they've got an excellent wage structure in place which has made the club more healthy and one that has made huge profits.

 

Away from the pitch they are in a better condition than they have been previously for years, on the pitch it hasn't worked out for them this season and Martin Jol has lost his job because of it, away from the pitch though they are in great shape and Ramos will be able to walk straight into the club and have to concentrate on the first team only, now compare that to Allardyce who had to come here and sort everything himself, even advertising on the official site for employee's because he walked into the club which was down to the bare bones because nobody has took a grip on the club since Milne under Robson, now how much easier would life have been for Sam if he had walked into the club and the majority of things had already been in place?

 

To answer your question - If everyone had a DOF then it would of course come down to money with the big clubs with the best players, managers and DOF's doing better, however I doubt we would see many managers coming into clubs with as much work needed doing as Allardyce had when he came here.

 

 

 

3rd bottom of the league, and the bold bit is exactly the same as we did under Bobby Robson

 

 

 

3rd bottom of the league and Martin Jol has lost his job because of that, he was the coach and the first team results were his responsibility, lucky Comolli has gone out and got a better coach who can come in and get straight to work at trying to sort out the first team without having to worry about the academy, scouts etc. Have you read anything what myself, Martin Jol or Johnnypd have said about the role?

 

As for your point about Robson, we signed young players to go straight into the first team, Spurs, like Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd sign them up before they even make the first team and to develop them themselves in their academy, the only player under Robson we signed who hadn't represented their current first team was N'Zogbia and he was picked up by our DOF at the time.

 

Gavilan, Ambrose, Viana all went straight into the first team ?

 

I would prefer to say that zoggy was picked up by our scout, who was answerable to the manager of the club.

 

 

 

Viana went straight into the first team, Ambrose was bought outside of the transfer window and Gavilan didn't adapt at all, he was also 19 when he came here so was never put into our academy.

 

N'Zogbia was picked up by Milne who was our director of football at the time, if you want to re write history and make out he was picked up by a scout then carry on.

 

No surprise you've ignored the other points people have made throughout the thread and instead try and nit pick at little things, then again that's you all over, I won't be replying to you again as I really can't be bothered to waste my time going over the same points with you again and again.