Big Sam and Michael Owen

[toptoon]

Owen & Viduka are for me both luxuary players in todays game, who if we are not dominating the game and creating much are pretty much useless, as they are both just very good finishers, there's not much else to their game really, they don't create that much themselves. They are not what you need in todays game as they are not capable of dropping deep into midfield helping out and picking up the ball running at players. Look at Manu with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez three players who are quick and skillfull and who will drop back into the midfield to help out and can run at the opposition from deep if needs to, we are light years behind in this respect. Martins should have been on earlier probably for Viduka as he is capable of this. Jones (like Drogba, Benjani, Torres etc) is a great example of the modern striker i.e. big strong, quick, intellegent and can shoot, score, head, pass, good engine, capable of dropping deep to help out then storm forward with great effect.

 

We either build the team around the very injury prone Owen i.e. go strictly 442, buy Heskey/Anelka, get a quick RW to provide lots of crosses etc etc or sell him and move on get players like K. Jones and pair him with martins OR maybe play Sams preffered (anti Owen) 433. But playing owen and then playing a system which does not suit him at all is plainly not working.

[Dave]

Andy Gray did a decent little piece on The Last Word about Owen's role against Sunderland and basically how it doesn't suit him at all. Contrasted against his England role/form he was spot on.

[Guest justin99.]

so who is to blame?

 

- Owen

- Allardyce

- midfield

 

- Shola

 

?

[Lotus]

Not sure i'd play Viduka and Owen at the same time now i think about it. Both like to stay central, neither works the channels particularly  effectively, both prefer being in the box and would rather someone else did the donkey work.

Owen + Smith might work.

 

Viduka + Martins might work.

 

Don't think i fancy any other combination atm.

[timnufc22]

Whatever you think of Owen, surley its obvious Viduka & Martins is our best partnership up front and should be worked on.

[Tooj]

Andy Gray did a decent little piece on The Last Word about Owen's role against Sunderland and basically how it doesn't suit him at all. Contrasted against his England role/form he was spot on.

 

Aye I saw that.

[wacko]

Good thread.

 

Owen's always needed the ball into his feet (or over the top when he was younger and quicker). He'll never do well in a team that hoofs it these days without a big man next to him for the knock-downs. Owen is a waste of a place in the side if he isn't played as an out-and-out striker.

 

Same with lots of top players, though, especially strikers. Rooney is rubbish pushed out wide or right up front. Even Henry looks ordinary when not played in his favoured position.

[Parky]

Good thread.

 

Owen's always needed the ball into his feet (or over the top when he was younger and quicker). He'll never do well in a team that hoofs it these days without a big man next to him for the knock-downs. Owen is a waste of a place in the side if he isn't played as an out-and-out striker.

 

Same with lots of top players, though, especially strikers. Rooney is rubbish pushed out wide or right up front. Even Henry looks ordinary when not played in his favoured position.

 

Agree. Iv'e said repeatedly on here that we're being too hard on Owen. After all we haven't got one single player in the side who can create a beautiful opening.

[Guest scouserstommy]

Owen & Viduka are for me both luxuary players in todays game, who if we are not dominating the game and creating much are pretty much useless, as they are both just very good finishers, there's not much else to their game really, they don't create that much themselves. They are not what you need in todays game as they are not capable of dropping deep into midfield helping out and picking up the ball running at players. Look at Manu with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez three players who are quick and skillfull and who will drop back into the midfield to help out and can run at the opposition from deep if needs to, we are light years behind in this respect. Martins should have been on earlier probably for Viduka as he is capable of this. Jones (like Drogba, Benjani, Torres etc) is a great example of the modern striker i.e. big strong, quick, intellegent and can shoot, score, head, pass, good engine, capable of dropping deep to help out then storm forward with great effect.

 

We either build the team around the very injury prone Owen i.e. go strictly 442, buy Heskey/Anelka, get a quick RW to provide lots of crosses etc etc or sell him and move on get players like K. Jones and pair him with martins OR maybe play Sams preffered (anti Owen) 433. But playing owen and then playing a system which does not suit him at all is plainly not working.

 

 

The three united players you mentioned cost a combined £60m so unless you have that to spend trhen it's a pretty irrelevant comparison.

 

If someone had mentioned Heskeys or Jones' name as a possible signing for you 3 months ago I bet you'd have pi**ed yourself laughing, two good games later and a couple of goals in Jones' case and now they're viable options.

 

Personally, I think you have three very good stikers on your books, but with the midfield that Big sam has built around them and the style of play that comes with it ther's no way that you're going to be getting the best out of Owen or Martins for that matter.Allardyce spent £13/£14m on three midfielders - not one of which offer you any penetration either by their movement into the box or their passing ability and as a result you have a midfield that works hard, is physically strong and can "put their foot in" but creates very little and IMO, in Alan Smith, you have a player that contributes nothing except aggression. As a result, your strikers are having to make what little service they get go a long way, and if truth be told I can see Allardyce getting rid of both Owen and Martins by the summer.

 

If the rumours are to be believed about you being interested in Crouch then that'd be an interesting signing for you, but again it doesn't get round the problem of the style of play or your midfield. If Crouch does come then yes, he'll be able to hold the ball up better than Martins and Owen (although Owen is decent in that respect) but then who from the midfield will be running beyond him through on goal? At Liverpool we have Gerrard, Babel,Benayoun etc but the only person I could see doing that for you would be N'Zogbia - more often than not you'll have Crouch(or an other target man) isolated against 3 defenders whilst he's waiting for a slow midfield to catch up.

 

 

 

[Parky]

Owen & Viduka are for me both luxuary players in todays game, who if we are not dominating the game and creating much are pretty much useless, as they are both just very good finishers, there's not much else to their game really, they don't create that much themselves. They are not what you need in todays game as they are not capable of dropping deep into midfield helping out and picking up the ball running at players. Look at Manu with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez three players who are quick and skillfull and who will drop back into the midfield to help out and can run at the opposition from deep if needs to, we are light years behind in this respect. Martins should have been on earlier probably for Viduka as he is capable of this. Jones (like Drogba, Benjani, Torres etc) is a great example of the modern striker i.e. big strong, quick, intellegent and can shoot, score, head, pass, good engine, capable of dropping deep to help out then storm forward with great effect.

 

We either build the team around the very injury prone Owen i.e. go strictly 442, buy Heskey/Anelka, get a quick RW to provide lots of crosses etc etc or sell him and move on get players like K. Jones and pair him with martins OR maybe play Sams preffered (anti Owen) 433. But playing owen and then playing a system which does not suit him at all is plainly not working.

 

 

The three united players you mentioned cost a combined £60m so unless you have that to spend trhen it's a pretty irrelevant comparison.

 

If someone had mentioned Heskeys or Jones' name as a possible signing for you 3 months ago I bet you'd have pi**ed yourself laughing, two good games later and a couple of goals in Jones' case and now they're viable options.

 

Personally, I think you have three very good stikers on your books, but with the midfield that Big sam has built around them and the style of play that comes with it ther's no way that you're going to be getting the best out of Owen or Martins for that matter.Allardyce spent £13/£14m on three midfielders - not one of which offer you any penetration either by their movement into the box or their passing ability and as a result you have a midfield that works hard, is physically strong and can "put their foot in" but creates very little and IMO, in Alan Smith, you have a player that contributes nothing except aggression. As a result, your strikers are having to make what little service they get go a long way, and if truth be told I can see Allardyce getting rid of both Owen and Martins by the summer.

 

If the rumours are to be believed about you being interested in Crouch then that'd be an interesting signing for you, but again it doesn't get round the problem of the style of play or your midfield. If Crouch does come then yes, he'll be able to hold the ball up better than Martins and Owen (although Owen is decent in that respect) but then who from the midfield will be running beyond him through on goal? At Liverpool we have Gerrard, Babel,Benayoun etc but the only person I could see doing that for you would be N'Zogbia - more often than not you'll have Crouch(or an other target man) isolated against 3 defenders whilst he's waiting for a slow midfield to catch up.

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I said about Crouch earlier. A piece of the puzzle but nowhere near the complete jigsaw. Personally I hope we don't sign Crouch for me he isn't mobile enough or dynamic, he's also relatively lazy and seems to get tired easily.

[wacko]

Owen & Viduka are for me both luxuary players in todays game, who if we are not dominating the game and creating much are pretty much useless, as they are both just very good finishers, there's not much else to their game really, they don't create that much themselves. They are not what you need in todays game as they are not capable of dropping deep into midfield helping out and picking up the ball running at players. Look at Manu with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez three players who are quick and skillfull and who will drop back into the midfield to help out and can run at the opposition from deep if needs to, we are light years behind in this respect. Martins should have been on earlier probably for Viduka as he is capable of this. Jones (like Drogba, Benjani, Torres etc) is a great example of the modern striker i.e. big strong, quick, intellegent and can shoot, score, head, pass, good engine, capable of dropping deep to help out then storm forward with great effect.

 

We either build the team around the very injury prone Owen i.e. go strictly 442, buy Heskey/Anelka, get a quick RW to provide lots of crosses etc etc or sell him and move on get players like K. Jones and pair him with martins OR maybe play Sams preffered (anti Owen) 433. But playing owen and then playing a system which does not suit him at all is plainly not working.

 

 

The three united players you mentioned cost a combined £60m so unless you have that to spend trhen it's a pretty irrelevant comparison.

 

If someone had mentioned Heskeys or Jones' name as a possible signing for you 3 months ago I bet you'd have pi**ed yourself laughing, two good games later and a couple of goals in Jones' case and now they're viable options.

 

Personally, I think you have three very good stikers on your books, but with the midfield that Big sam has built around them and the style of play that comes with it ther's no way that you're going to be getting the best out of Owen or Martins for that matter.Allardyce spent £13/£14m on three midfielders - not one of which offer you any penetration either by their movement into the box or their passing ability and as a result you have a midfield that works hard, is physically strong and can "put their foot in" but creates very little and IMO, in Alan Smith, you have a player that contributes nothing except aggression. As a result, your strikers are having to make what little service they get go a long way, and if truth be told I can see Allardyce getting rid of both Owen and Martins by the summer.

 

If the rumours are to be believed about you being interested in Crouch then that'd be an interesting signing for you, but again it doesn't get round the problem of the style of play or your midfield. If Crouch does come then yes, he'll be able to hold the ball up better than Martins and Owen (although Owen is decent in that respect) but then who from the midfield will be running beyond him through on goal? At Liverpool we have Gerrard, Babel,Benayoun etc but the only person I could see doing that for you would be N'Zogbia - more often than not you'll have Crouch(or an other target man) isolated against 3 defenders whilst he's waiting for a slow midfield to catch up.

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I said about Crouch earlier. A piece of the puzzle but nowhere near the complete jigsaw. Personally I hope we don't sign Crouch for me he isn't mobile enough or dynamic, he's also relatively lazy and seems to get tired easily.

He's not lazy and he doesn't get tired particularly easily. Rafa always hauls him off early (if he's started) because Crouch covers more ground that pretty much any other player in the side. He looks like he's moving in slow motion, but he isn't.