Mark Viduka- Cut above

[Keefaz]

Same with Owen. Really makes me laugh when people pick their preferred XIs, and stick Smith & Martins up-front....f****** hell man. Today we had over 20 shots at goal with 10 on target...yet those two could have played until next Christmas and still not look like scoring.

 

With Martins and Smith you get more mobility so better football all round like against Arsenal. Viduka is technically superb, but he's like a planted tree as far as movement is concerned. Fine if there's lots of movement around him but there isn't.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Smith or Martins hasn't a tenth of the movement of someone like Viduka. It's not about running around headlessly, it's about timing and reading the game.

[Rich]

Viduka is the first name on the team-sheet for me, along with Owen if we're playing 4-4-2.

 

Martins and Smith shouldn't get a sniff anywhere in the team if the aforementioned are both fit.

[Baggio]

Viduka is the first name on the team-sheet for me, along with Owen if we're playing 4-4-2.

 

Martins and Smith shouldn't get a sniff anywhere in the team if the aforementioned are both fit.

 

Viduka and Owen would be the slowest front line in the Premiership, with no pace at all from midfield the opposition would just play a high line making it hard for us to get in behind.

 

We've already seen this when they've played together this season.

[Guest]

Viduka is the first name on the team-sheet for me, along with Owen if we're playing 4-4-2.

 

Martins and Smith shouldn't get a sniff anywhere in the team if the aforementioned are both fit.

 

Viduka and Owen would be the slowest front line in the Premiership, with no pace at all from midfield the opposition would just play a high line making it hard for us to get in behind.

 

We've already seen this when they've played together this season.

 

Shearer & Sutton/Ferdinand didn't have real pace, but they had two wide-men who laid chances on a plate for them. Put Milner on the right, N'Zogbia/Duff down the left, and I see no reason why the same can't happen with Viduka & Owen.

[Rich]

Viduka is the first name on the team-sheet for me, along with Owen if we're playing 4-4-2.

 

Martins and Smith shouldn't get a sniff anywhere in the team if the aforementioned are both fit.

 

Viduka and Owen would be the slowest front line in the Premiership, with no pace at all from midfield the opposition would just play a high line making it hard for us to get in behind.

 

We've already seen this when they've played together this season.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that against a fully fit Michael Owen you'd see too many defences playing a high line, even at this stage of his career, there still aren't that many centre halves in the Premiership quicker than him over 10 yards. Given the right service I'd have far more confidence in these two than in Smith/Martins/Ameobi to bury whatever comes their way.

 

Martins has pace, but how many times this season has he utilised it effectively? I've personally never seen such a quick player who doesn't know how to properly utilise his major asset, which is a great shame. Think we've been spoiled with Bellamy in his prime as far as pacey strikers go.

 

At St. James' the higher the opposition defends up the park the more hope I'd have of us scoring, personally, because we seem to struggle the most against two deep banks of 4. When teams come here and try and play, we usually find a way to put some goals past them. (West Ham, Everton, Spurs being examples this season - although I realise Viduka/Owen were only paired in the first of these.)

[Baggio]

Viduka is the first name on the team-sheet for me, along with Owen if we're playing 4-4-2.

 

Martins and Smith shouldn't get a sniff anywhere in the team if the aforementioned are both fit.

 

Viduka and Owen would be the slowest front line in the Premiership, with no pace at all from midfield the opposition would just play a high line making it hard for us to get in behind.

 

We've already seen this when they've played together this season.

 

Shearer & Sutton/Ferdinand didn't have real pace, but they had two wide-men who laid chances on a plate for them. Put Milner on the right, N'Zogbia/Duff down the left, and I see no reason why the same can't happen with Viduka & Owen.

 

Shearer/Ferdinand had Gillespie down the wing which continually pushed the opposition back line back with driving runs, same at Blackburn with Wilcox and Ripley.

 

We've got Milner and Duff, neither are fast and neither force opposition defenders to retreat because they're worried about about them using that pace to get in behind them, remember the West Ham game at the beginning of the season? Viduka and Owen were useless together.

[Guest]

Owen was only on the pitch about 50 minutes that day, just back from injury, and Viduka scored twice....

[NSG]

Owen was only on the pitch about 50 minutes that day, just back from injury, and Viduka scored twice....

 

What you on about man, don't you know pace is everything....

[Baggio]

Owen was only on the pitch about 50 minutes that day, just back from injury, and Viduka scored twice....

 

Did you watch the game? Because I can tell you that we improved massively by bringing Martins on and the pace of him and N'Zogbia had West Ham all over the place.

[Baggio]

Viduka is the first name on the team-sheet for me, along with Owen if we're playing 4-4-2.

 

Martins and Smith shouldn't get a sniff anywhere in the team if the aforementioned are both fit.

 

Viduka and Owen would be the slowest front line in the Premiership, with no pace at all from midfield the opposition would just play a high line making it hard for us to get in behind.

 

We've already seen this when they've played together this season.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that against a fully fit Michael Owen you'd see too many defences playing a high line, even at this stage of his career, there still aren't that many centre halves in the Premiership quicker than him over 10 yards. Given the right service I'd have far more confidence in these two than in Smith/Martins/Ameobi to bury whatever comes their way.

 

Martins has pace, but how many times this season has he utilised it effectively? I've personally never seen such a quick player who doesn't know how to properly utilise his major asset, which is a great shame. Think we've been spoiled with Bellamy in his prime as far as pacey strikers go.

 

At St. James' the higher the opposition defends up the park the more hope I'd have of us scoring, personally, because we seem to struggle the most against two deep banks of 4. When teams come here and try and play, we usually find a way to put some goals past them. (West Ham, Everton, Spurs being examples this season - although I realise Viduka/Owen were only paired in the first of these.)

 

The part I've highlighted couldn't be further from the truth, the Owen we signed could but the player we've got now isn't going to sprint away from anybody.

 

We've seen a few times this season that Owen was put through but doesn't have the pace to get away from defenders anymore, meaning he has to shoot from distance, something he's shite at, I had hoped it was down to fitness but when he can't even out pace Michael Dawson ten you know there's a serious problem.

[Guest]

And for that, you're relying on Martins to have one of those rare games where his control is good, he runs at defenders, and uses his pace to his advantage. Still think we'd be at our best with a holding-midfielder, Emre in the middle pulling the strings with a left-footed left-winger and a right-footed right-winger providing chances for Viduka & Owen.

[johnnypd]

i don't see viduka-owen as particularly compatible. neither of them is going to drift wide to give us shape or stretch teams and pin them back up top. as baggio says i can see a team with those two up front being forced back and back as the opposition defend a high line. there are very few centre-half pairings in the premiership that owen or viduka could outrun, if any. it would also be pretty congested in there with both in the middle, and neither able to create space for one another off the ball, and with viduka dropping deep owen could find himself isolated too often. owen needs to be in and around the box to be effective, playing alongside an imposing striker who can create space for him and do a hell of a lot of work of the ball (not viduka's forte).

 

for them to really hit it off we'd have to have two fast wingers on either side forcing the play so that owen and viduka can attack the ball in the box and to be dominating games 90% of the time, neither is true of our side, so until then i'm still saying Viduka-Martins is the best available, especially away from home. not saying it wouldn't work, both are too good for it to outright fail but it is not an ideal duo, and they'd both score plenty (tho hard to say how prolific or reliable owen is with 2 goals in half a season).

[Guest]

Viduka is the first name on the team-sheet for me, along with Owen if we're playing 4-4-2.

 

Martins and Smith shouldn't get a sniff anywhere in the team if the aforementioned are both fit.

 

Viduka and Owen would be the slowest front line in the Premiership, with no pace at all from midfield the opposition would just play a high line making it hard for us to get in behind.

 

We've already seen this when they've played together this season.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that against a fully fit Michael Owen you'd see too many defences playing a high line, even at this stage of his career, there still aren't that many centre halves in the Premiership quicker than him over 10 yards. Given the right service I'd have far more confidence in these two than in Smith/Martins/Ameobi to bury whatever comes their way.

 

Martins has pace, but how many times this season has he utilised it effectively? I've personally never seen such a quick player who doesn't know how to properly utilise his major asset, which is a great shame. Think we've been spoiled with Bellamy in his prime as far as pacey strikers go.

 

At St. James' the higher the opposition defends up the park the more hope I'd have of us scoring, personally, because we seem to struggle the most against two deep banks of 4. When teams come here and try and play, we usually find a way to put some goals past them. (West Ham, Everton, Spurs being examples this season - although I realise Viduka/Owen were only paired in the first of these.)

 

The part I've highlighted couldn't be further from the truth, the Owen we signed could but the player we've got now isn't going to sprint away from anybody.

 

We've seen a few times this season that Owen was put through but doesn't have the pace to get away from defenders anymore, meaning he has to shoot from distance, something he's s**** at, I had hoped it was down to fitness but when he can't even out pace Michael Dawson ten you know there's a serious problem.

 

And last week at Fulham, 3 times Martins had the chance to run away from the defence but his general sh*t control meant it was pretty pointless.

[Rich]

And for that, you're relying on Martins to have one of those rare games where his control is good, he runs at defenders, and uses his pace to his advantage. Still think we'd be at our best with a holding-midfielder, Emre in the middle pulling the strings with a left-footed left-winger and a right-footed right-winger providing chances for Viduka & Owen.

 

Agree entirely with this, especially at home. Butt and Emre need a shot together again, but it will never happen. There's no way that one of Barton or Smith would be dropped, let alone both.

[NSG]

Viduka is the first name on the team-sheet for me, along with Owen if we're playing 4-4-2.

 

Martins and Smith shouldn't get a sniff anywhere in the team if the aforementioned are both fit.

 

Viduka and Owen would be the slowest front line in the Premiership, with no pace at all from midfield the opposition would just play a high line making it hard for us to get in behind.

 

We've already seen this when they've played together this season.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that against a fully fit Michael Owen you'd see too many defences playing a high line, even at this stage of his career, there still aren't that many centre halves in the Premiership quicker than him over 10 yards. Given the right service I'd have far more confidence in these two than in Smith/Martins/Ameobi to bury whatever comes their way.

 

Martins has pace, but how many times this season has he utilised it effectively? I've personally never seen such a quick player who doesn't know how to properly utilise his major asset, which is a great shame. Think we've been spoiled with Bellamy in his prime as far as pacey strikers go.

 

At St. James' the higher the opposition defends up the park the more hope I'd have of us scoring, personally, because we seem to struggle the most against two deep banks of 4. When teams come here and try and play, we usually find a way to put some goals past them. (West Ham, Everton, Spurs being examples this season - although I realise Viduka/Owen were only paired in the first of these.)

 

The part I've highlighted couldn't be further from the truth, the Owen we signed could but the player we've got now isn't going to sprint away from anybody.

 

We've seen a few times this season that Owen was put through but doesn't have the pace to get away from defenders anymore, meaning he has to shoot from distance, something he's s**** at, I had hoped it was down to fitness but when he can't even out pace Michael Dawson ten you know there's a serious problem.

 

And last week at Fulham, 3 times Martins had the chance to run away from the defence but his general sh*t control meant it was pretty pointless.

 

Same today when he was clean through only to fall over the ball

[Baggio]

And for that, you're relying on Martins to have one of those rare games where his control is good, he runs at defenders, and uses his pace to his advantage. Still think we'd be at our best with a holding-midfielder, Emre in the middle pulling the strings with a left-footed left-winger and a right-footed right-winger providing chances for Viduka & Owen.

 

I'll be relying on Martins scoring goals, something he's done on a more regular basis for us since Owen came back from his knee injury (2 goals in 13 games in the league isn't it?)

 

Martins and Viduka look decent together with Viduka's ability on the ball and Martins on the shoulder looking to get in behind, the main problem has been getting the ball to them in the first place which seems to only consist of aimless long balls that suit neither player.

[Baggio]

And for that, you're relying on Martins to have one of those rare games where his control is good, he runs at defenders, and uses his pace to his advantage. Still think we'd be at our best with a holding-midfielder, Emre in the middle pulling the strings with a left-footed left-winger and a right-footed right-winger providing chances for Viduka & Owen.

 

Agree entirely with this, especially at home. Butt and Emre need a shot together again, but it will never happen. There's no way that one of Barton or Smith would be dropped, let alone both.

 

Didn't you say Smith was a better midfielder than Butt?

[Baggio]

i don't see viduka-owen as particularly compatible. neither of them is going to drift wide to give us shape or stretch teams and pin them back up top. as baggio says i can see a team with those two up front being forced back and back as the opposition defend a high line. there are very few centre-half pairings in the premiership that owen or viduka could outrun, if any. it would also be pretty congested in there with both in the middle, and neither able to create space for one another off the ball, and with viduka dropping deep owen could find himself isolated too often. owen needs to be in and around the box to be effective, playing alongside an imposing striker who can create space for him and do a hell of a lot of work of the ball (not viduka's forte).

 

for them to really hit it off we'd have to have two fast wingers on either side forcing the play so that owen and viduka can attack the ball in the box and to be dominating games 90% of the time, neither is true of our side, so until then i'm still saying Viduka-Martins is the best available, especially away from home. not saying it wouldn't work, both are too good for it to outright fail but it is not an ideal duo, and they'd both score plenty (tho hard to say how prolific or reliable owen is with 2 goals in half a season).

 

Good post, well thought out.

[Rich]

And for that, you're relying on Martins to have one of those rare games where his control is good, he runs at defenders, and uses his pace to his advantage. Still think we'd be at our best with a holding-midfielder, Emre in the middle pulling the strings with a left-footed left-winger and a right-footed right-winger providing chances for Viduka & Owen.

 

Agree entirely with this, especially at home. Butt and Emre need a shot together again, but it will never happen. There's no way that one of Barton or Smith would be dropped, let alone both.

 

Didn't you say Smith was a better midfielder than Butt?

 

Don't think so. Didn't you say we wouldn't play 4-4-2 this season under Allardyce?

 

 

[Troll]

Five goals in nine starts for us, I can't see why anyone would want Smith up front instead.

[Keefaz]

Five goals in nine starts for us, I can't see why anyone would want Smith up front instead.

 

Lesser of two evils, tbh.

[Baggio]

And for that, you're relying on Martins to have one of those rare games where his control is good, he runs at defenders, and uses his pace to his advantage. Still think we'd be at our best with a holding-midfielder, Emre in the middle pulling the strings with a left-footed left-winger and a right-footed right-winger providing chances for Viduka & Owen.

 

Agree entirely with this, especially at home. Butt and Emre need a shot together again, but it will never happen. There's no way that one of Barton or Smith would be dropped, let alone both.

 

Didn't you say Smith was a better midfielder than Butt?

 

Don't think so. Didn't you say we wouldn't play 4-4-2 this season under Allardyce?

 

 

 

Don't think so, I remember saying his long term aim would be to switch to 4-3-3 when he gets the players for it.

[Rich]

As for going 4-4-2, Sam is a strict 4-3-3 man 95% of the time so you might as well get that out of your head now.

 

Thought so.

[Baggio]

As for going 4-4-2, Sam is a strict 4-3-3 man 95% of the time so you might as well get that out of your head now.

 

Thought so.

 

95% of the time doesn't mean he'll never play 4-4-2 does it? The fact is he's tried it but doesn't have the players for it, so we're struggling along with a 4-4-2 which he looks a fish out of water trying to organise.

 

You didn't actually say Smith was better than Butt, you just tried to compare stats after two games in this thread about how Butt is worse at giving away fouls etc...

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=44422.msg980873#msg980873

 

I'm praying to fuck that Smith proves you wrong and I have faith in him to do so.

 

Midnight mass tonight for you then, Rich.

 

 

[Rich]

Watch the back-tracking there Matthew, you did say we wouldn't play 4-4-2 under Sam, technically.

 

I enjoyed that thread actually, Diop's been doing alright for Pompey like, for a grafter at least...

 

...So I didn't say Smith was better than Butt after all, then? Thought so. Ah, that thread gets better: I forgot it was the one where we discovered that you being proven right is more important than players at our club doing well. Magic.

 

I'm also not judging Smith after 4 months and less than 20 games in our colours, despite him looking much improved when played in a more advanced role recently.... where were you then? Why have you just reappeared after a bad performance from the team and our new captain, in particular?

 

You've lost the plot mate.